Bone knight build: suggestions

[graeylin]

I could use suggestions for feats for a Bone Knight PC, with these caveats:

WOTC only, I am not a big optimizer, I tend to play better with more basic, standard feats than something like a dragonwrought kobold with dark template Ur-priest. So, power attack, cleave, great. Tome of battle, I can use pretty well. Completes, etc., mostly fine.

I am not building the most powerful PC I can, I am building a cool fun PC that will mesh with the party. I don't need to uber max my AC, because the DM will just hit the squishy people instead if I do. Solid AC, Solid hits, Solid damage, etc.. I'd like this PC to be somewhat rounded, and I don't mind in this game playing something that is good at a couple things, but can't change the world with a spell.

3.5 game, I am starting at level 14. Human, and I believe with my build, I have 8 feats to play with across those levels.

Stats: S 16 Dex 10 Con 16 Int 10 Wis 15 Cha 15 this includes my bumps along the way, and the +2 from human paragon.

Classes: Crusader 1/Human paragon 3/Cleric 1/Fighter 1/Bone Knight 8. there's some lee-way in those, I could change that a bit, if needed.

I am happy with my cleric casting level at 10th level. If there's a great, easy boost, fine, but not having 6th level spells isn't going to kill my build.

I am playing a tripper in another game, so I would like to avoid that pathway here. I think I should be the front line damage dealer/soaker, pretty much. The rest of the party is a Necromancer, Illusionist, and Beguiler.

I'm looking for suggestions on feat paths, maneuvers/stances, weapon/armor tricks, spell combos to grab, and I'll also take suggestions on magic items, if you have any. If you have a must have killer alternate build, I will consider that too. I took fighter over crusader for the bonus feat, for example, and could consider something else if it made better sense.

I am sure I am forgetting some things, I'll add them as asked.

Thanks in advance for advice!

[kpumphre]

Thanks for posting this. I just saw the class and was pretty curious my self.

[CyberThread]

Crusader 1/Human paragon 3/Cleric 1/Fighter 1/Bone Knight 8.

vs

Cleric 2 /Fighter 1/ Crusader 2/ prestige paladin 2 / bone knight

[Dread_Head]

Would Cloistered Cleric 1 / Human Paragon 1 / Fighter 1 / Human Paragon +2 / Crusader 1 / Bone Knight 8 not be a better build?
This way you can use Human Paragon to advance cleric casting and get the Crusader level later when you have a higher IL and can pick up higher level manoeuvres. You can trade the Knowledge Domain from CC for the Knowledge Devotion feat.

One to three levels in Prestige Paladin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#prestigePaladin) could be good for your build as it synergises quite nicely with Bone Knight, although that would be something to look at taking after your Bone Knight levels.

For feats the traditional suggestion for a Cleric focusing on fighting is to take the feats Extend spell(possibly through taking the planning domain), Persist Spell and Divine Metamagic: (Persist Spell) thus allowing you to make your buffs last all day. Buffs to focus on would include Divine Power, Divine Favour and Righteous Might. On top of this take combat feats of your choice, probably Power Attack and then maybe Imp. Bullrush and Knock-back / Shocktrooper / Leap Attack

Items you might want to look at would be Nightsticks (Libris Mortis), Reliquary Holy Symbol (MIC), Prayer Beads, wands of Lesser Vigor (for out of combat healing) and the weapon and armour of your choice probably full plate and something with reach.

For further info on clerics look here (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=1238). I know this build is designed to be themed around Bone Knight but the advice for Clerics should be pretty relevant.

[CyberThread]

I disagree. Prestige progresses casting and counts with bone knights stacking abilities.I disagree that paragon is good for this build.

[captain fubar]

if you go cleric 4/ crusader 1/ prestige paladin 1/ bone knight 8 it will get better casting even more so if your dm lets you apply battle blessing to your prestige paladin spells.

all that would quickly eat into your combat feats however.


as for tanky combos bone knight is already quite durable.
what you need to make shure you have is something to encourage monsters to face you rather than running past you to beat on a glass cannon.
1. a chain tripper can be good at this but you don't want that
2. combat reflexes + stand still will let you chose weather to do a bit of damage or stop your foes in their tracks. if you take some more crusader thicket of blades is a great addition to this combo. still has basically the same feel as being a tripper though
3.DMM persist and a(few) well chosen spells can also pin down your foes say for example adding persist and born of three thunders to any weapon like spell that you cast before combat.
4. a level of knight would give you something like a mmo style taunt however the penalty for just ignoring it isn't very big.
5. dwarven defender can make difficult terain around them self


Am I forgetting any methods of turning a durable character into a tank?
it seems like there would have to be more than just those 5

[Dread_Head]

I disagree. Prestige progresses casting and counts with bone knights stacking abilities.I disagree that paragon is good for this build.

I was sticking to the levels he was planning on taking and just rearranging them but I actually agree with you that Prestige Paladin would be better for the build.

Edit: @captain fubar I'm not sure there are many other ways of tanking, it's notoriously difficult to pull off in 3.5 without going full chain tripper.

[CyberThread]

Flying knight with guardsmen glare adds up quick.

[graeylin]

So, prestige over paragon?

Prestige locks me into Lawful good, does it not? At least, until I take Bone Knight? that's not a dealbreaker, I guess, starting at 14, so that's okay.

I have to use a feat for mounted combat. I suspect that's going to be a wasted feat, and I don't think our DM will be throwing a lot of things at us where I can ride. Mounts are cool, but in a 10' hallway, problematic. And I lose a feat from Paragon.

I do get a lot of nice Pally bennies, though, and many of them convert over to BK. Are they worth the loss of two feats?

Prestige 3 and paragon 3 progress casting the same (2/3). I do see that Prestige 1 has an advantage, since Paragon 1 is a dead spell level, but not prestige 1. Dead level 2 for that, instead.

[CyberThread]

Depends feats are nice but those class features are tasty.

[Dread_Head]

So, prestige over paragon?

Prestige locks me into Lawful good, does it not? At least, until I take Bone Knight? that's not a dealbreaker, I guess, starting at 14, so that's okay.

I have to use a feat for mounted combat. I suspect that's going to be a wasted feat, and I don't think our DM will be throwing a lot of things at us where I can ride. Mounts are cool, but in a 10' hallway, problematic. And I lose a feat from Paragon.

I do get a lot of nice Pally bennies, though, and many of them convert over to BK. Are they worth the loss of two feats?

Prestige 3 and paragon 3 progress casting the same (2/3). I do see that Prestige 1 has an advantage, since Paragon 1 is a dead spell level, but not prestige 1. Dead level 2 for that, instead.

You could ask your DM about making a prestige paladin version of the other alignment paladins (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinVariantsFreedom SlaughterAndTyranny) that are also in Unearthed Arcana or write an alignment change into your background.

The Paladin abilities, particularly Divine Grace, are probably better than the bonus feat and +2 of Human Paragon unless you really need the feat. The other great benefit of Prestige Paladin is getting some of the cool paladin spells such as Rhinos Rush and Favor of the Martyr onto your list. Particularly so if your DM rules that Battle Blessing (Complete Champion) will work with these spells or all the spells also on the paladin list.

[graeylin]

How do I get Pally spells through Prestige? It advances my Clerical spellcasting only, right? Or am I reading something wrong? Missing something?

[Ellowryn]

Also, is your cleric casting that important to you? If not then Cleric 1/Crusader 4/ Prestige Paladin 3/ Bone Knight 6 will be pretty tanky while giving you a good deal of all the class skills, you just wont have as much of BK as before.

[thethird]

I like cloistered cleric 3 / Ordained champion 3 / Prestige Paladin 1 / Bone Knight 7.

It gives you some more melee push and doesn't detriment your casting as much as the human paragon and fighter levels. Ordained champion goes greatly with Bone Knight.

Unearthed arcana pg 71 has a side bar saying that you gain unique paladin spells. :smallsmile:

[Dread_Head]

From the heading section of Prestigious Character Classes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/prestigiousCharacterClasses.htm#):

Unique Spells
The bard, paladin, and ranger spell lists contain a number of spells that don't appear on other classes' spell lists. In general, any character who enters one of these prestige classes should gain access to spells unique to that class's spell list, at the same levels indicated for the standard class. At the game master's discretion, spells unique to that class's spell list found in other books may also be available, but on a case by case basis. The game master may require such spells to be researched or learned specifically by the character, rather than simply making them freely available.

[captain fubar]

How do I get Pally spells through Prestige?

rather than advancing 2 separate casting lists it adds all pally spells to your cleric spell lists.

sword saged

[graeylin]

ah, thanks for the spell/prestige info.

I am not sold on high cleric casting. In fact, doing less than 5th level spells would work out well, as I can drop my wisdom (and off-set the loss of +2 from paragon). I look to the spellcasting as added bennies to the build, not absolute needed things.

So, 5th level spells, fine. 4th level, but with some cool Pally spells... that's okay too.

Thanks for the ideas and suggestions, I am working them all in my build to see what fits best with my head. Keep them coming, if you have them, I am learning a lot!

[graeylin]

I like cloistered cleric 3 / Ordained champion 3 / Prestige Paladin 1 / Bone Knight 7.

It gives you some more melee push and doesn't detriment your casting as much as the human paragon and fighter levels. Ordained champion goes greatly with Bone Knight.

Unearthed arcana pg 71 has a side bar saying that you gain unique paladin spells. :smallsmile:

How do I manage this build? Don't I need 7 ranks in knowledge religion to make OC? Doesn't that require 4 levels of Cleric?

Again, I could be missing something.