Binder/Defiant, how well would it work?

[Xuldarinar]

Essentially as the title, an academic question. How well would a binder defiant work? How would you go about optimizing the combination?

[CyberThread]

is defiant the anti divine prc?

No way to real way to optimize it, defiant is considered **** already, and doesn't progress binder abilities. The binder could eventually get into the class, but all it would be is like taking a completely unrelated class with it. So you would be a 5th level binder, with 10 levels of defiant.


So in reality, you would be a 15th level character, immune to divine damage, and resistant to divine spells, with 5th level binder abilties, with subpar bab, and decent saves.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Try the Athar in Dragon 287 p45 instead. It gets pretty much all the same class features as the Defiant, in a slightly different order, and gets 8/10 divine spellcasting advancement on top of regaining any divine spellcasting ability lost when taking it. Ex-Clerics even get to pick any new domains they want, and you draw your spells from 'the great unknown' instead of any particular deity or ideal. Its prerequisites are a bit steeper, BAB +7, base Will save +3, Kn: Religion 10 ranks, and divine spellcasting ability which you must give up upon gaining the prestige class.

Something like a Binder 8/ Ur-Priest 2/ Athar 10 would work rather well, I'm sure.

[Xuldarinar]

is defiant the anti divine prc?

No way to real way to optimize it, defiant is considered **** already, and doesn't progress binder abilities. The binder could eventually get into the class, but all it would be is like taking a completely unrelated class with it. So you would be a 5th level binder, with 10 levels of defiant.


So in reality, you would be a 15th level character, immune to divine damage, and resistant to divine spells, with 5th level binder abilties, with subpar bab, and decent saves.

Well, on that level it certainly isn't a good idea. It would wind up being more thematic than practical, almost certainly.


On one end, binder into defiant, it makes sense because it would help against the Seropaenes. Its not perfect, but its something.

On the other end, it seems great for a thematic element.
Cleric 1-9: A character very much devoted to their church and their god. As time goes on however, they begin to have trouble with the actions of their church taken in their god's name. Perhaps they grow more aware of corruption and one day come to an unfortunate conclusion.
Ex-Cleric 9/Defiant 10: They have become 'enlightened', giving up the mantle of cleric and severing all ties to their 'false god', becoming a champion to the Great Unknown.
Ex-Cleric 9/Defiant 10/Binder 1-10: In further rebellion against their former faith, and wanting to understand the nature of entities beyond the church's understanding, they the up the forbidden practice of binding vestiges. Perhaps in their view, at least the vestiges are honest about their 'nature' and far more willing to answer the call of mortals. Perhaps they find themselves sympathetic of those cast out by these false gods.


Try the Athar in Dragon 287 p45 instead. It gets pretty much all the same class features as the Defiant, in a slightly different order, and gets 8/10 divine spellcasting advancement on top of regaining any divine spellcasting ability lost when taking it. Ex-Clerics even get to pick any new domains they want, and you draw your spells from 'the great unknown' instead of any particular deity or ideal. Its prerequisites are a bit steeper, BAB +7, base Will save +3, Kn: Religion 10 ranks, and divine spellcasting ability which you must give up upon gaining the prestige class.

Something like a Binder 8/ Ur-Priest 2/ Athar 10 would work rather well, I'm sure.

That is something I'm going to have to look into. It sounds interesting.

[A Tad Insane]

Doubt it's RAW, but you might be able to apply the cleric/binder synergy.

[The Viscount]

Binder doesn't really seem to mesh well with defiant, mostly because it can do many of those things itself. Binding Haures gives mind blank, and Zceryll gives you general spell resistance against all spells. You can use Karsus to dispel magic if need be, and its far more likely to succeed than Defiant's counterspell effect. Knight of the Sacred Seal can be used if you want aligned strike, and the pact bonuses can be used to give a bonus to saves. As for divine interference, the check is only that to cast defensively, which they should be able to make. If you want to harry casters you could always take mage slayer as a binder. Purely divine damage is not very common, so is not that much of a concern.

[Naanomi]

I would do Cleric 9/Binder 1/Defiant 1 as the entry to that build (maybe that exploration of binding is the last crumble of faith); otherwise you end up as Defiant 10 and no class to give any weapon or armor proficiencies for a full level

[Xuldarinar]

I would do Cleric 9/Binder 1/Defiant 1 as the entry to that build (maybe that exploration of binding is the last crumble of faith); otherwise you end up as Defiant 10 and no class to give any weapon or armor proficiencies for a full level

..I don't think trading class levels makes you forget how to hold a stick, or how to wear a suit of armor. Interesting idea though.

[CyberThread]

How to become a commoner in 9 easy steps.

[Psyren]

I would houserule it to advance Binding. That, or scrap binding altogether and enter with a ToB class instead.