Order of the Bow Initiate

[questionmark693]

So I guess people think it's very suboptimal. I think I'm missing something though, because swift hunter is a viable build, and that relies on only taking a single attack action. Wouldn't it be better if that standard action had extra precision damage?

[Ruethgar]

Not sure what swift hunter build you go for, but mine always shoot for a full attack.

[questionmark693]

Swift hunter relies on scout's extra damage, which you only get if you move at least ten feet....how do you full attack?

[Nihilarian]

So I guess people think it's very suboptimal. I think I'm missing something though, because swift hunter is a viable build, and that relies on only taking a single attack action. Wouldn't it be better if that standard action had extra precision damage?Swift Hunter only relies on standard action attacks if you can't get your full attack after moving. 1 level dip into cloistered cleric and Travel Devotion is the best method. So OotBI is pretty much useless.

[questionmark693]

Understood. That's actually really helpful to be aware of, thank you. Barring that, for flavor reasons, if somebody did want to use the improved manyshot route, would ootbi be not so terrible?

[Eldariel]

Understood. That's actually really helpful to be aware of, thank you. Barring that, for flavor reasons, if somebody did want to use the improved manyshot route, would ootbi be not so terrible?

Improved Manyshot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/feats.htm#improvedManyshot) is an epic feat. Perhaps you're talking about Greater Manyshot (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/psionicFeats.htm#greaterManyshot)? Well, you cannot combine OotBI with Greater Manyshot since OotBI is restricted to using a standard action to make a single attack that does the extra damage. Greater Manyshot is a different standard action. You can use either-or, not both.

Truth be told, there's precious little worth saying about the 3.5 version of OotBI. The Close-Combat Shot is about the most useful thing it offers and that's only because it doesn't exist as a feat. Exotic Weapon Master does it better with e.g. Greatbow anyways (one less level). Sniping with single shots just cannot keep up with the damage of full attacks, particularly in archery where you need Rapid Shot as a prerequisite feat anyways. As such, anything that gives up full attack is generally useless Archery-wise.

[questionmark693]

I did in fact mean greater manyshot, sorry. I was not aware that you could not combine manyshot with the precision damage....I guess we'll try to find a way to make travel devotion work. What are the best ways to get that going? I saw cloistered cleric thrown out, would it be worth taking extra turning to power travel devotion?

[Eldariel]

I did in fact mean greater manyshot, sorry. I was not aware that you could not combine manyshot with the precision damage....I guess we'll try to find a way to make travel devotion work. What are the best ways to get that going? I saw cloistered cleric thrown out, would it be worth taking extra turning to power travel devotion?

OotBI doesn't work with Greater Manyshot. Precision damage works just fine. It's just the OotBI ability specifically can only be applied on its own special attack. Precision damage like Skirmish or Sneak Attack does work fine. The natural combination is therefore to leave OotBI out; it's a ****ty class that does nothing worthwhile.

Ranger/Scout/Cloistered Cleric is the run-of-the-mill Swift Hunter and works fine. Greater Manyshot variant also works but doesn't benefit of Haste/Rapid Shot and needs a lot of To Hit boosters so it's a bit iffy.


I don't like any of those due to the range limitations but they work okay in dungeons and such.

[MesiDoomstalker]

Unless your DM like sending 6+ fights per day or have very long fights, a Cleric dip (Cloistered or not), you won't need Extra Turning. The 3+Cha (likely a dump stat) should be enough for most days, including the one use you get from Travel Devotion itself.

[Kennisiou]

The only way to get multiple instances of the Ootbi attack a round is to get multiple standard actions a round. Easiest means of this is to hit Factotum level 8 to gain Cunning Surge. Otherwise you could potentially gain a ton of levels in a caster or manifester class until you eventually get their action economy manipulation spells and then use them to start attacking a ton, but honestly at that point you have better options than firing arrows dealing +1d8 damage.

In general, the existence of manyshot and greater manyshot just kind of make Ootbi worthless. Anything you can do to try to get multiple of their +1d8 attacks can just be made better by using those multiple standard actions to manyshot or something instead.

[Ketiara]

Search for items that allows you to move as a swift action x/day etc... you could use those for the easy encounters and save travle devotion for the boss.
Quicksilver Boots, chronogram of Horizon Walker etc.

EDIT: and ofcourse Belt of battle