Walking across a river

[Piggy Knowles]

So, the PCs in my current campaign are separated from their foes by a small river. The river is between ten and twenty feet deep, about thirty-five feet wide, and is flowing at a moderate rate, sweeping swimmers and boats downstream at a rate of 15' per round.

One of my players is playing a warforged, and he asked about how the current would affect him when walking along the bottom. He wants to know if he will be swept downstream if he attempts to cross the river. (He's a mithril body warforged weighing 278 pounds and standing 6' tall, if it makes a difference.)

I looked, but could not find anything in the rules to cover this. (There are rules for how such a current would affect a swimming character, but not one who is walking, nor does it specify whether a character's density would make a difference.) My immediate instinct is to say that the current won't sweep him away, but he'll have to spend some of his movement fighting the current. I'm prepared to just say that it's a half speed penalty and call it a day.

That being said, I'd be interested to hear how others would rule this, and if this has been addressed in the rules somewhere. Is that a fair ruling? Or should I let him just walk across unimpeded, since even a mithril body warforged will be significantly denser than a standard humanoid?

[Bullet06320]

half speed sounds good to me, balance checks maybe depending on wats on the bottom

[Ruethgar]

I think the Quintessential Monk had rules for using balance to run across water.

[Piggy Knowles]

I think the Quintessential Monk had rules for using balance to run across water.

The Epic Level Handbook and SRD have similar rules. That said, this thread is about a warforged wanting to walk straight across a river along its base, not someone walking on water

[Rath the Brown]

Half speed is the way to go. Check out footnote 3 for underwater combat for the "Firm Footing" condition:

Creatures have firm footing when walking along the bottom, braced against a ship’s hull, or the like. A creature can only walk along the bottom if it wears or carries enough gear to weigh itself down—at least 16 pounds for Medium creatures, twice that for each size category larger than Medium, and half that for each size category smaller than Medium.
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/wilderness.htm

[Phelix-Mu]

Away from the RAW, complete immersion at the bottom of the river probably increases drag and puts the warforged in the area of strongest current. Also, I'm not clear that this particular warforged is appreciably more dense than, say, an NFL linebacker. Movement should definitely be harder, I'd think.

Also, if you do drift downstream, the character should also need to make Balance checks or something to remain standing. Keeping feet on the ground while the rest of one's body is moving downstream tends to trip one up in a hurry.

That said, I'm all for simplifying things and going for the aforementioned somewhat pertinent RAW.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Crossing a river with a decent current shouldn't be nearly as easy as others have been suggesting. He should be able to move 1/4 speed and before that, he has to make a DC 15 strength check. Failure means he gets caught up in the current and loses his turn as he's swept 15 ft downstream. If he weren't a warforged, drowning might become a concern at this point. But he is, so... He should need to make a swim check (DC 15 for rough water) as a move action on his turn to recover and regain his footing on the riverbed. If he fails, he loses the rest of his turn and continues to be swept downstream.

Being battered by the water might also do nonlethal damage, but again...warforged. If there's a lot of rocks around, there might be lethal damage involved.

[Psyren]

Being battered by the water might also do nonlethal damage, but again...warforged. If there's a lot of rocks around, there might be lethal damage involved.

Actually, Warforged are subject to nonlethal damage. (I make this mistake a lot too.)

[BornValyrian]

I've heard that current underwater can be ascribed a strength and act like a wind of that strength rating upon creatures. I think that was somewhere in Stormwrack.

[Phelix-Mu]

I've heard that current underwater can be ascribed a strength and act like a wind of that strength rating upon creatures. I think that was somewhere in Stormwrack.

This is actually a pretty good way to do it, from the sound of it.

[Telonius]

Off-topic, but I got flashbacks to Oregon Trail by reading this. "Ford the river, Caulk your wagon and float it across, hire an Indian?"

(I swear those Indians were assassins, I always ended up drowning whenever I hired them...)

[TuggyNE]

Off-topic, but I got flashbacks to Oregon Trail by reading this. "Ford the river, Caulk your wagon and float it across, hire an Indian?"

Trigger warning! Trigger warning! :smalltongue:

[Mnemnosyne]

Pretty sure he's too light to do that. At 278 pounds and standing six feet tall, he's no heavier than many humans, and humans are not dense enough to sink to the bottom and walk unless they're wearing additional weights. I would say adjudicate him as if he were human, because he's about the right size and density for that.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Actually, Warforged are subject to nonlethal damage. (I make this mistake a lot too.)

Oh. Then... d6 nonlethal any round he's being swept away?

[Threadnaught]

Also, if you do drift downstream, the character should also need to make Balance checks or something to remain standing. Keeping feet on the ground while the rest of one's body is moving downstream tends to trip one up in a hurry.


Crossing a river with a decent current shouldn't be nearly as easy as others have been suggesting. He should be able to move 1/4 speed and before that, he has to make a DC 15 strength check. Failure means he gets caught up in the current and loses his turn as he's swept 15 ft downstream.

I'm sorry, but I immediately thought of this (http://www.goblinscomic.org/10152010-4/).

I have no idea which one is right. I'd say, it's entirely up to DM. If someone in my group argues either, that's the one I'd use. If two people are arguing and they're in opposition to each other, they both win the argument. :smallamused:

[Petrocorus]

Pretty sure he's too light to do that. At 278 pounds and standing six feet tall, he's no heavier than many humans, and humans are not dense enough to sink to the bottom and walk unless they're wearing additional weights. I would say adjudicate him as if he were human, because he's about the right size and density for that.

This humans you speak about are generally not 6 feet tall. But more. And probably very muscular or fat, or both. So wider than an average warforged too. I'm 6 feet tall, i weight about 220 lb and i'm already considered as pretty heavy for my height. And if i go swimming, i can sink if i empty my lungs. A warforged has no lungs. I believe the warforged can sink naturally.


I've heard that current underwater can be ascribed a strength and act like a wind of that strength rating upon creatures. I think that was somewhere in Stormwrack.
Mechanically, it is a good way to see the things.


So, ... (He's a mithril body warforged weighing 278 pounds and standing 6' tall, if it makes a difference.)

His weight will probably allows him to resist the current better, but will have him make more efforts to move forward through the water.


I'm sorry, but I immediately thought of this (http://www.goblinscomic.org/10152010-4/).

I though exactly to this too. As a matter of fact, i think there might be a rule somewhere for doing this, walking through a river like they do.
If it is applicable to low-depth river, it may be used for underwater walk, i think.

[Zweisteine]

Warforged probably are about as bougabt as humans. They're made of metal, which sinks, and wood, which floats, so that probably about cancels out (at least in D&D physics). There's also the matter of them not havin special rules for sinking in water, which would make sense if they naturally did. Of course, it's nofun to disallow players to do something ingenious like walk under a river, so allow it anyway.

I'd say its a both a strength and a balance check. One two resist the current (DC 15, maybe?), and one two avoid slipping. The strength check goes first. If it fails, you move with the river and the balance check gets a penalty (-5?) because you're slipping along the bottom of the river. If the balance check fails (regardless of the strength check), you lose your footing and have to make swim checks in subsequent rounds. If

So all possible outcomes:
Strength fails -> balance penalty -> balance fails -> move with current, swim checks start
Strength fails -> balance penalty -> balance succeeds -> move with current, repeat checks at penalty each round to regain footing
Strength succeeds -> balance fails -> move with current, swim checks start
Strength succeeds -> balance succeeds -> you keep your filing an can move ago artist speed

[Invader]

I think you need to clarify exactly how fast a "moderate" current is. If it's enough to easily sweep a swimmer down river then its probably enough to sweep someone walking along the bottom downward as well.