Incarnum Help: Soul Boon Spell or Essentia Helm?

[Miss Disaster]

Hey Everyone. I could use a little advice on an issue regarding Incarnum from MoI.

My DM gave my 12th level Wizard an RP bonus (which was very cool of him). He gave me the Incarnum Spellshaping feat (p. 38). Since my wizard is an Azurin with no other sinks for her +1 racial Essentia, I now have +2 Essentia total to use (since the feat gives me another +1 Essentia to add to my pool). At this time, I only plan to use those 2 Essentias in my [Incarnum] descriptored spells that I scribed once I got the feat.

The spell I'm most excited to use is Greater Channel the Mishtai (p. 99) and to pump it to the max with Essentia to extend the duration from 1 hour to 4 hours (since at 12th character level, I can pump an additional +3 Essentia into it).

What I'm hoping to get from you guys, is to figure out the best way to pump-up Greater Channel the Mishtai. Should I use the Soul Boon spell (p. 104) to do so? Or should I purchase an Essentia Helm (MIC p. 97)?

Soul Boon concerns me because the Essentia granted only lasts for 1 minute. Am I correct in that any Essentia I pump into the long-lasting Greater Channel the Mishtai will be removed from it once Soul Boon expires? That would not be good. :smallfrown:

At least the Essentia Helm's granted Essentia will stay buried into the long-durationed Incarnum spells.

Thanks for your help! :-)

[malonkey1]

Hey Everyone. I could use a little advice on an issue regarding Incarnum from MoI.

My DM gave my 12th level Wizard an RP bonus (which was very cool of him). He gave me the Incarnum Spellshaping feat (p. 38). Since my wizard is an Azurin with no other sinks for her +1 racial Essentia, I now have +2 Essentia total to use (since the feat gives me another +1 Essentia to add to my pool). At this time, I only plan to use those 2 Essentias in my [Incarnum] descriptored spells that I scribed once I got the feat.

The spell I'm most excited to use is Greater Channel the Mishtai (p. 99) and to pump it to the max with Essentia to extend the duration from 1 hour to 4 hours (since at 12th character level, I can pump an additional +3 Essentia into it).

What I'm hoping to get from you guys, is to figure out the best way to pump-up Greater Channel the Mishtai. Should I use the Soul Boon spell (p. 104) to do so? Or should I purchase an Essentia Helm (MIC p. 97)?

Soul Boon concerns me because the Essentia granted only lasts for 1 minute. Am I correct in that any Essentia I pump into the long-lasting Greater Channel the Mishtai will be removed from it once Soul Boon expires? That would not be good. :smallfrown:

At least the Essentia Helm's granted Essentia will stay buried into the long-durationed Incarnum spells.

Thanks for your help! :-)

Well, theoretically, you could do some research to allow you to apply Permanency (see the last bit of the spell description) to have Soul Boon become permanent, which would obviate the need for an Essentia Helm (although if you could get both, I believe they stack). Personally, I'd gor for the helm, unless I felt I could spare the XP.

[Miss Disaster]

Thanks, malonkey1. Yeah, a Permanency'ed Soul Boon would be amazing. My 12th level Wizard could easily get CL 15 on the Soul Boon with her current setup. That would give her a constant pool of 7 Essentia to play with - 1 from Azurin, 1 from Incarnum Spellshaping and 5 from Permanency'ed Soul Boon. I'll check with my DM on that.

As for her current situation, your answer kinda implies what I was thinking all along ... that the Soul Boon spell as is, doesn't mesh well with holding Essentia in her long-duration Incarnum spells (like Guardian Spirit and Greater Channel the Mishtai).

[Miss Disaster]

I'd be curious if anybody else uses (or used) the Soul Boon spell for Essentia boosting.

Testimonials are welcome! I'd sure like to see if the spell slot resource and action economy is worth using the spell for an Incarnum spellcaster.

[Segev]

Well, theoretically, you could do some research to allow you to apply Permanency (see the last bit of the spell description)

I'm not seeing anything in Permanency that says you can research to add new spells to what it can effect. Can you elaborate, please? This is of interest to me.

[Big Fau]

I'm not seeing anything in Permanency that says you can research to add new spells to what it can effect. Can you elaborate, please? This is of interest to me.

The SRD version lacks the relevant text, but the actual printed version has it.

[Segev]

The SRD version lacks the relevant text, but the actual printed version has it.

Iiiiinteresting. I'll have to remember to look this up when I'm near my PHB.

[Miss Disaster]

I'm kinda getting the impression there aren't many folks who are knowledgable ... or interested ... in the Incarnum Spellshaping spells. :smallfrown:

[Vaz]

Investing the essentia happens at the time of casting, and then has its effect during then. Once it's invested, it's no longer in the pool. There is no need to Permanance it.

So;

Cast Soul Boon, gain 5 Temporary Essentia for 1 minute.
During that minute cast your spells which require Essentia; such as Greater Channel the Mishtai; invest your Essentia within (max 3); so duration is 4 hours.
That essentia is now lost, but the spell is cast.

[Segev]

So spending essentia on spells actually expends it, as opposed to the other uses (which are "investments" you can recover...except for feats, where they're locked in for the day)?

[Vaz]

Just dug out the book to clarify; actually, it's invested until the end of the spell's duration.

In the case of Soul boon; you get a temporary pool of essentia which can be used for normal purposes. Once it's invested in the spell/feat etc, it cannot be used at all, but is "spent". When the spell ends, it goes back to the pool; but because Soulboon has ended you've lost the essentia.

It's the same reading as why 2x PAO working because it checks the status at the time of casting. You invest the temporary essentia at the time of casting.

Losing the essentia part way through the Invested Spell's duration has no effect on the Invested Spell - provided the spell's actually cast during Soul Boon's duration.

If you have a ton of Incarnum feats, and you're a caster, several Pearls of Power can rapidly increase your ability. It is almost as if they saw the potential abuse with something like that with Midnight Metamagic which has the "Once per day" limit.

[Miss Disaster]

Vaz, you are delightful. :smallsmile: Thank you so much for taking the time to clarify how Soul Boon works (I'm the OP).

Well, in light of that information, Soul Boon isn't as bad as I thought it was. Although, its duration is ridiculously suboptimal (1 minute). And isn't worth extending (and it can't be persisted). So unless you are guaranteed to have a prep round or 2, it's a crappy in-combat spell ... and best cast out-of-combat for feeding into long-term / long-running Essentia vessels.

***

For my wizard's particular needs, she's gonna get the Essentia Helm as a more appropriate Essentia booster/feeder for her spells than wasting 2nd level slots on Soul Boon. Although I do agree, 2nd Level PoP's combo'ed with Soul Boon are a good option.

[Vaz]

It's quite a good candidate for quickening spells; Greater Channel the Mishtai is pretty cool, of course, but it's use is out of combat, and only really needs casting twice a day. Preparing one of your 6th level spells as Quickened Soul Boon gives you that emergency. Of course, a 6th level Pearl of Power gets around that 1/day limitation.

[Miss Disaster]

That's true.

Although I'm finding that the Incarnum spells themselves are not that awesome for their exclusive nature of having to have a feat tax to use them. There are exceptions. And they do get better when utilizing Essentia-pumping tactics.

1. Suppress Magic (Wiz 2) - As a situational debuff, Chain this bad boy, pump it with Essentia (+3 in my wizard's case), and you've got a very reliable way to shut-down a spellcaster's or Big Bad's wide array of magic items. With your Essentia pump and a cheap boost from say, a Dispelling Cord (MIC) ... and this combo will scale well into the fairly high levels.

2. Wall of Incarnum (Wiz 3) - A key selling point for this SR=No, opaque Wall, is that spells cannot pass through it. Plus, you need a save just to pass through it. And if you even try to pass through it, it does 1d4 + X Wisdom Damage (where X is the Essentia you pump into it). There are quite a few creatures who will be dropped with that much Essentia-boosted Wisdom damage. Plus, this Wall can be hooked-up to Bracers of the Entangling Blast and the Fell Metamagick feats for more debuff awesomeness.

[Fouredged Sword]

Yeah, I have always wanted to throw the wall out with the selective metamagic so MY spells pass through it, but not anyone else's. You have to start in the wall though, but nothing stops you from 5ft stepping back behind the safety and launching spells at targets who cannot see you or fight back.

[Segev]

It's the same reading as why 2x PAO working because it checks the status at the time of casting. You invest the temporary essentia at the time of casting.

Not to raise the argument over whether 2x PAO works or not, but how does this interpretation change if you do not subscribe to that logic about PAO?

My own reading does not rely on "check this flag once," but rather on the layering of effects, like a physical structure. If you freeze water in the form of a pillar and build a bridge supported in the middle by that pillar, the bridge will indeed allow people to cross it safely. But when the ice melts and leaves the bridge unsupported, it will collapse.

Likewise, when you cast PAO twice with the second one being "the same form," the second one's duration while the first one remains in effect is, indeed, "Permanent," because the conditions defining its duration say so. However, when the underlying condition changes, the form off of which its duration is calculated is once again your "base" form, and the duration is now the non-permanent one that the first one had.

So, again, not to argue that this is right (I obviously think it is, but you obviously do not, and this isn't the thread to debate the merits of the logic), but how would that interact with the Soul Boon question inherent to this thread?

Sadly, I think the Essentia evaporates from where it is invested, leaving you with less Essentia invested, and thus the lesser duration. After all, the power that sustains the spell for the longer duration is gone.

Oddly, if Essentia were something you could expend, the "check at the start when you spend it" rule would make it work just fine. If you can get "temporary power points" for psionics, you could augment something with the temporary points to give it a longer duration and have no issue with the fact that the augmented power was augmented with power points that would have vanished long before its augmented duration is up if they hadn't been used.

But Essentia is "invested" rather than "expended."

Otherwise, you could cast Soul Boon to get ~5 essentia and invest them in a soulmeld to get the full effect all day. It checks at the time you invest it, and you haven't spent a swift action to re-assign those (now gone) Essentia, so it's still rating off of that.

[Vaz]

Short answer; ask dm
Long answer; ask DM

2x PAO works by RAW (check at time of casting), as does my 'reading' of soul boon's temporary essentia. The temporary essentia is lost, but the effect of the invested essentia is already included in the spell's. Anything else is 'i disagree with your reading of a terribly written book' so no point arguing.

In regards to spells, Wall of Incarnum is one of my favourite BFC spells. Ever. Run it on a Psychic Theurge (Cleric/Ardent is my fave). It lowers the Will Save as you've noticed, which you then hit with a Schism'd power - say Time Hop or Dominate. That near enough guarantees that enemy BSF/goons won't be able to touch you.

[Segev]

Like I said, I do'nt want to argue PAOx2 in this thread. (I'll be happy to do so in another, though.) I do not think it works per RAW any more than it doesn't work per RAW.

But if you do not wish to discuss whether the essentia thing works if the PAOx2 reading doesn't, we can drop it for this thread, too.