3.5 Dread Necromancer Beginner

[yoshi67]

I'm fairly new to DnD but I've played a few games. I've read just about everything I can and have almost all the "official" 3.5 books loaned to me by various people. I'm tired of playing easy but boring melee characters and the Dread Necromancer sounds so much fun. Problem is I haven't really done too much with spellcasters (apart from a Ranger). I understand how it works for various classes, and thought a Necro with it's limited but powerful spell list and casting without prep would be a great starting point, especially with already mentioned cool factor. So my questions are:

Most other people I play with are more experienced but usually play tier 4 or 5 classes and we never really optimize. I thought since I wouldn't be optimizing and plan on playing a full lvl 1-20 Necro that it shouldn't throw off the balance. Thoughts?

The campaigns we have played so far are neutral. No "Rescue the Maiden" good stuff, but no "Kill everyone and loot everything" evil either. Usually item retrieval or fight for someone who pays. We play primarily in Faerun, but just wondering how a Necro might fit in. I figure an army of undead is pretty useful in a lot of situations, just might have to come up with a decent backstory to place him in the group. Thoughts?

Kinda having to do with the above, does the Necro really depend on seeing a lot of undead? We see some in dungeons, but rarely when venturing "above ground". Seems like Rebuke and Command undead would be more effective if that's what were fighting. I assume from reading that I can summon undead pretty easily, and most enemy bodies' can be Animated, so is a Necro still effective if we end up in a massive war with humans, or orcs?

Last thing, I envision my guy to be this undead lord, commanding a small army of minions and maybe a few powerful undead from the back lines. What's the best way to making an undead army? Summoning creatures, animating corpses, or "spellstitching"? I want a few disposable guys and summoning some skeletons or other low level guys look to do that fine. But what if I want something like an Undead Giant or similar powerhouse to take my place in melee?

Also, any other tips, tricks, or ideas are welcome!

[OldTrees1]

While a Dread Necromancer is more versatile than your group's norm, it should not be a problem provided you are careful not to replace your teammates with undead. Letting them utilize your undead would also help.

A large army might outshine your team unless kept in the background. A small contingent of undead would be good support for the warriors in your team at mid levels.

Faerun generally dislikes undead. So you will want to be in disguise often. Perhaps your team are some of the few that are not bigoted.

A necromancer does not need to encounter any undead. The ones you create should be sufficient. However facing weak races (low number of racial Hit Dice) can be difficult. It will result in you having many many weak undead. This can slow down combat a lot. If this is the case, ask your DM if you can use the mob rules from DMG II. Your undead will still be weaker than normal but that sounds fine for your group.



Now to answer your final question I will be flipping up the optimization level of my advice. Feel free to nerf these next recommendations for use in your group

You largest pool is with the Command Undead spell. This controls 1 mindless undead (no HD limit) per spell cast for caster level days. With the chain spell feat it will also affect additional undead equal to your caster level. So 3 spell slots devoted to this per day using a Least Chain Metamagic Rod at 8th level will result in 3x9x10=270 undead (targeting the highest HD mindless undead)

Your most powerful pool is the Undead Leadership feat. It works the same as Leadership except you get a +2 bonus if your minions are undead (slap on Necropolitian for LA +0).

Your next most useful pool is Rebuke Undead. This is how you control utility undead. These undead do not have to be mindless undead and as a result you can control interesting undead like Slaymates (Necromancy metamagic spells costs 1 less), Ghosts or Ghouls.

Animate Dead is your least potent pool but it is also how you create the undead in your largest pool (see above). A desecrated altar will increase the hp of your animated undead.

Spellstiching gives them some spell-like abilities per day. Usually used to give yourself (or a minion if you are not undead) the Animate Dread Warrior spells-like ability. This is a 6th level spell that creates a loyal intelligent undead that retains its abilities it had in life.

[AkbarTheGreat]

Depending on your level of optimization you can go for Fell Animate (a must have IMO), Necropolitan, and Tomb Tainted Soul.

As a Dread Necro, even if you don't optimize, you eventually get nearly stupid amounts of HD for control/rebuking undead, so basically you are only as broken as your DM wants you to be based on the enemies he sends your way/corpses he leaves around.

Also, be sure and note Shivering Touch when it becomes available. 3d6 dex damage. It's essentially a dragon/huge monster killer. If you add metamagic feats as well it can become even more powerful.

[OldTrees1]

Also, be sure and note Shivering Touch when it becomes available. 3d6 dex damage. It's essentially a dragon/huge monster killer. If you add metamagic feats as well it can become even more powerful.

This might be a reason not to take it for his group.
Good to mention either way though.

[Know(Nothing)]

As far as back-lining, remember that when your 2nd level spells come online, you get Spectral Hand, which lets you not only drop some medium ranged hurt on your enemies, but medium range "healing" to your more valuable minions/team mates(as long as they take Tomb-tainted Soul.) Also see if your whole party can RP and/or train for that feat, and you'll never need worry about out-of-combat healing again.

[ArendK]

It's a fun little class;

Travel time can be drastically improved (undead horses for the win!) if you think of your undead as tools. Since it's a charisma based class, you should have relatively little issue concealing yourself, and your minions need a way to either be disguised or put away (stuffing the big ones in a portable hole/Bag of Holding works).

indeed, the DN is by far the funnest approach to me to go necromancer in any capacity (kind of the point of the class, but that goes without saying).

[Thanatosia]

Also, be sure and note Shivering Touch when it becomes available. 3d6 dex damage. It's essentially a dragon/huge monster killer. If you add metamagic feats as well it can become even more powerful.
Eh.... I'd be careful taking Shivering Touch, it's one of those spells that was very poorly considered by the designers and is likely to get a DM to throw a book at you before House Ruling it's ban or revamp.

[Amphetryon]

For groups/Players who don't wish to use the DN for minionmancy, Dread Necromancers can also be used to great effect as debuffers, stacking Fear effects to fundamentally shut down enemies; for this approach, Dread Witch is generally on the short list of recommended options to bypass immunities.

[AkbarTheGreat]

This might be a reason not to take it for his group.
Good to mention either way though.


Eh.... I'd be careful taking Shivering Touch, it's one of those spells that was very poorly considered by the designers and is likely to get a DM to throw a book at you before House Ruling it's ban or revamp.


I mentioned it simply because he is a beginner, most of us know what it is and how broken it can be if used correctly, but if he finds himself being unhelpful in the group because there are no corpses around (or his friends end out being a bit more optimized than they seem) then its a must have. Really, it's a must have as long as the DM allows it, and a good DM knows how to counter things like that anyway. Either way, it's a spell any Dread Necro should at least know exists, and is one a beginner most likely wouldn't know about off hand.

[yoshi67]

Great stuff! I'm mostly asking because my DM has limited knowledge about the mechanics and is trusting me to act fairly. I'm playing the class more for RP than the ability to create an unstoppable flood of undead, although that sounds wickedly fun. So far the DM has been challenging but not unfair, so I probably won't need anything crazy. I want some "utility" minions for protection, carrying loot, and as fodder for those pesky trapped hallways the rogue always seems to miss something in. I am hoping for one or two larger melee undead to use in battle (I think it wound simplify having to roll 10 skeletons every engagement). I would also be the wizard-counter, Spectral Hands with some negative to Int? And since we don't optimize and generally play lower-tier classes, if that dragon or colossal monster seems a bit much, I can always whip out Shivering Touch.

[RedMage125]

If you're starting at low levels, I would say that Tomb-Tainted Soul should be (one of) your 1st level feat(s), hands down. The low-level DN is a passable melee combatant more than an undead general. The ability to heal yourself is a great boon for any melee-focused character.

[OldTrees1]

If you're starting at low levels, I would say that Tomb-Tainted Soul should be (one of) your 1st level feat(s), hands down. The low-level DN is a passable melee combatant more than an undead general. The ability to heal yourself is a great boon for any melee-focused character.

Unless you plan on becoming a necropolitian or a ghost.

[dascarletm]

Unless you plan on becoming a necropolitian or a ghost.

I'd take it anyway, with hopes of retraining or even just eating the lost feat, unless you can start play with the undead type.

[gorfnab]

These may be of some use:
Dread Necromancer Handbook (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=214212)
Dread Necromancer Advanced Learning Handbook (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=10037.0)
Revised Necromancer Handbook (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5584)