Why is chicken-infested so uber?

[Particle_Man]

What is it, where is it from, why does it keep appearing in optimization builds? Is it some sort of "summon an infinite number of chickens, one at a time" effect?

[Karnith]

Chicken-infested is a flaw for Commoners from Dragon Magazine #330. It was an April Fool's joke that people like to use because it's so silly.

Is it some sort of "summon an infinite number of chickens, one at a time" effect?Yes, that's pretty much exactly what it does. Whenever a chicken-infested character draws a weapon or pulls out an item, there's a 50% chance that the character pulls out a live chicken instead.

[eggynack]

It is a flaw from dragon magazine that causes 50% of the items you try to withdraw turn out to actually be chickens. By using something like a spell component pouch (which, per the RAW, effectively contains infinite components), or a gnomish quickrazor combined with quickdraw, it is possible to create infinite chickens in a single round. You can even just carry a bag of sand under the assumption that a finite but incredibly large quantity of chickens is sufficient for most things.

So, that's pretty much it. You then only need creativity to solve a good chunk of problems. There's a massive chasm between you and your goal? Toss a mass of chickens into the chasm and cross atop them. There is an archer sniping at you? Create a wall of chickens and break line of sight. There is a famine in a nearby town, known for its massive appetite and love for chicken, and you seek to help them? Well, I've got nothing but you could probably work something out.

[HunterOfJello]

A near infinite army of undead chickens that you are strengthening with moving Desecrate spells and a few shadesteel golems hiding around here and there can be a very deadly force.

[Twilightwyrm]

Chicken-infested is a flaw for Commoners from Dragon Magazine #330. It was an April Fool's joke that people like to use because it's so silly.
Yes, that's pretty much exactly what it does. Whenever a chicken-infested character draws a weapon or pulls out an item, there's a 50% chance that the character pulls out a live chicken instead.

So wouldn't getting the infinite chickens require the the Quick Draw feat in addition then? I apologize if this was assumed, but I have limited experience with this flaw.

Edit: Never mind, I saw it involves a Spell Component Pouch.

[Arael666]

I get really mad when people used infinite and quick draw in the same sentence.


Free actions don’t take any time at all, though there may be limits to the number of free actions you can perform in a turn. Free actions rarely incur attacks of opportunity.

The PH itself demand you use common sense! Yet people choose to ignore. That's why aberrations such as the "commoner railgun" exist.

[Karnith]

So wouldn't getting the infinite chickens require the the Quick Draw feat in addition then? I apologize if this was assumed, but I have limited experience with this flaw.
It depends on what you're drawing. If you're taking things out of a spell component pouch, it's a free action by default, so the only limit on how many you can draw is how many your DM will let you take out in a round. Per the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#spellComponents):

To cast a spell with a material (M), focus (F), or divine focus (DF) component, you have to have the proper materials, as described by the spell. Unless these materials are elaborate preparing these materials is a free action. For material components and focuses whose costs are not listed, you can assume that you have them if you have your spell component pouch.
If you're pulling out weapons to trigger Chicken-Infested, then you'd need Quick Draw (and enough weapons to draw).

[Twilightwyrm]

It depends on what you're drawing. If you're taking things out of a spell component pouch, it's a free action by default, and hence the only limit is how many your DM will let you take out in a round. Per the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/actionsInCombat.htm#spellComponents):

If you're pulling out weapons to trigger Chicken-Infested, then you'd need Quick Draw (and enough weapons to draw).

I saw. It would seem, basically, that the broken component is the spell component pouch more than the chickens.

[eggynack]

I get really mad when people used infinite and quick draw in the same sentence.

The PH itself demand you use common sense! Yet people choose to ignore. That's why aberrations such as the "commoner railgun" exist.
Making an assumption of something as ludicrous as common sense in relation to game rules doesn't really make much sense, common or otherwise. The game says there may be limits, which equally means that there may not be, and you lack the authority to assert that quick draw should necessarily swing one way or the other. Besides, we're talking about chicken infested, and chicken infested is awesome.

[Brookshw]

There is a famine in a nearby town, known for its massive appetite and love for chicken, and you seek to help them? Well, I've got nothing but you could probably work something out.

Build deadfall traps in the woods to drop masses of chickens on wild game. Tie them out as bait to hunt carnivores for food. Sacrifice them to demons for use of create food.

[Mrc.]

Chicken infested adds a light-hearted element to a class sorely needing cheering up. Commoner doesn't have a huge amount going for it so any boon is something. I find it amusing that, assuming the DM allows you to perform an unlimited amount of free actions a round, you actually have a chance at solving two of the three challenges used to work out tiers. Not a great chance but a chance nonetheless.

[Karnith]

I saw. It would seem, basically, that the broken component is the spell component pouch more than the chickens.
No, the broken part is taking a million free actions in one round. A DM imposing some limit on free actions per round is all it really takes to make Chicken-Infested not ridiculous.

Or, well, it makes it no more ridiculous than producing chickens from nowhere.

[paperarmor]

Turn every campagin into birdemic.

[Stoneback]

I just gave a PC a Horn of Chickens. Summon Chicken, 1/round... We shall see if she breaks it.

[ericgrau]

No, the broken part is taking a million free actions in one round. A DM imposing some limit on free actions per round is all it really takes to make Chicken-Infested not ridiculous.

Or, well, it makes it no more ridiculous than producing chickens from nowhere.

Too true. But I think you could still do quite a lot with, say, 10-20 chickens a round. And many tricks aren't time-constrained, so after several minutes you could still get enough chickens to get uber.

I think the way to make it slightly less ridiculous but still cornball is to play it RAI (as silly as even the intent may be) and say that the chickens actually come from somewhere. You obtain them by normal means, don't actually get infinite and must tend to them as normal. The flaw part is you must carry and tend to X chickens on your person and once removed they tend to return to you on their own.

... then you get an entirely new level of silliness where your chickens have permanence. So you awaken them and give them wizard levels to spam magic missiles. Or mass aid another to distract foes from attacking you due to swarm of chickens. But at least on some twisted level it makes sense, dammit.

[Particle_Man]

Chicken-infested is a flaw for Commoners from Dragon Magazine #330. It was an April Fool's joke that people like to use because it's so silly.

Ah, so this goes even beyond Theoretical Optimization to Silly Optimization, allowing what were meant to be only jokes and not actual game components.

[Psyren]

Chicken infested adds a light-hearted element to a class sorely needing cheering up. Commoner doesn't have a huge amount going for it so any boon is something.

I wouldn't say they "need" it - after all, the class isn't intended for PCs anyway, it doesn't need to be effective.

[eggynack]

I wouldn't say they "need" it - after all, the class isn't intended for PCs anyway, it doesn't need to be effective.
I think the point is, is there even a reason to have random NPC farmers with no real abilities if they can't spontaneously produce infinite chickens? I posit that there isn't.

[Brookshw]

I wouldn't say they "need" it - after all, the class isn't intended for PCs anyway, it doesn't need to be effective.

Oh I'm sure the otherwise drab boring life of a commoner needs cheering up. A bit of comedy never hurts.

[Yuki Akuma]

Ah, so this goes even beyond Theoretical Optimization to Silly Optimization, allowing what were meant to be only jokes and not actual game components.

Plenty of games have components that are jokes and are also actually used. Why shouldn't D&D?

[NotAnAardvark]

I like how people are in this thread seriously trying to discuss the best way to nerf commoner gimmicks.

Because, you know, if anything is threatening to overwhelm game balance it's definitely commoners.

[Yuki Akuma]

I like how people are in this thread seriously trying to discuss the best way to nerf commoner gimmicks.

Because, you know, if anything is threatening to overwhelm game balance it's definitely commoners.

A Commoner 1/Wizard 19 could take Chicken Infested and get infinite money (because chickens are a commodity - they can be traded in place of money).

[Divide by Zero]

Ah, so this goes even beyond Theoretical Optimization to Silly Optimization, allowing what were meant to be only jokes and not actual game components.

Sometimes people want silly. I would argue that, as long as you limit free actions per turn to curb the more egregious abuses, Chicken-Infested could be a perfectly reasonable component of a comedic game.

[eggynack]

A Commoner 1/Wizard 19 could take Chicken Infested and get infinite money (because chickens are a commodity - they can be traded in place of money).
It feels a lot like a wizard doesn't need infinite chickens to get infinite money, or at least enough money to buy every item in the game in a short time span. I'd probably go with a not-wizard, for whom economy breaking isn't as easily accessible.

[Rubik]

Plenty of games have components that are jokes and are also actually used. Why shouldn't D&D?See: Spell Components. They're incredibly lame and stupid, but still.

[Killer Angel]

A Commoner 1/Wizard 19 could take Chicken Infested and get infinite money (because chickens are a commodity - they can be traded in place of money).

...but after a while, you're going to saturate the market. And selling prices will drop dramatically!

(I love to apply real life economy to D&D. Because you are never disappointed!)

[Erik Vale]

Or more, why can't commoners have infinite wealth?
Chickens are a trade good worth 2cp. That's right, for a flaw, you can break the WBL system over your knee before anyone else can.
[A ten foot ladder broken in half with the rungs cut down A: Takes time B: Does not make 2 10 foot poles, it makes a broken ladder that can be used as 2 10ft poles]

Edit: IT seems this commoner has the Ninja + Sword sage infested flaw.

However, I think it would be cool to pit a party against a level 1 commoner with unlimited wealth. Have him be the BBEG.

[Malroth]

using infinite cickens to obtain arbitrarily large amounts of wealth would be a series of encounters that would give enough xp to advance in level several times, not to mention the series of encounters involved in turning arbitrarily large amounts of money into personal power.

[Deophaun]

Beyond the silly infinite-chickens thing, there are serious builds (in that they don't require a DM to be ridiculously permissive with free actions, not that the concept itself is serious) that can make something out of chicken infested, like throwing a bunch of poultry rubbed in the 11 secret herbs and spices of flaming death at your enemies.

[Erik Vale]

No, XP comes from *Draw Chicken* *Wring Neck surprise round* *Repeat*.

[Rubik]

A single dip in commoner is a good idea for the right kind of necromancer build (cleric especially), since they can make exploding undead chickens (hen grenades) that heal other undead. Clerics can combine that with Fell Drain or Fell Animate (Greater) Consumptive Field to massively boost caster level and Strength scores.

[Erik Vale]

So the common necromancer uses undead chickens?
This is becoming a thing in a game I'm running. No if's/buts/maybies. A technically Evil necromancer who animates chickens because why not, and other animations for usefulness.

[Rubik]

So the common necromancer uses undead chickens?
This is becoming a thing in a game I'm running. No if's/buts/maybies. A technically Evil necromancer who animates chickens because why not, and other animations for usefulness.Make sure to look into the Corpsecrafter line of feats.

[Erik Vale]

Well he has plenty of corpses to practice on. He'd probably also research some specific types of animation spells to become the Martha Stewart of Necromancers.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Plenty of games have components that are jokes and are also actually used. Why shouldn't D&D?

It does... (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/rustMonster.htm)

[ericgrau]

No, XP comes from *Draw Chicken* *Wring Neck surprise round* *Repeat*.

So... arbitrary number of levels, arbitrary amount of wealth, take levels in all classes, grab all abilities, boost ability scores an arbitrary number of times... pun pun has met his match?

[Lanaya]

You don't get XP for encounters with an EL of 8 below your party's level, so no infinite XP.

[Psyren]

Even at 1st-level, I'm not seeing how a chicken is worth XP...

Ninja'd by Lanaya

[Hamste]

It does... (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/rustMonster.htm)

I'm really disappointed that didn't lead to a website explaining truenamers.

[Threadnaught]

You don't get XP for encounters with an EL of 8 below your party's level, so no infinite XP.

Awaken, or better yet Item of Awaken x Per Day. Tell the Awakened Chickens to wring the newly Summoned Chickens' necks until they reach a high enough ECL to gain no XP, or you can wring their neck in a surprise round.
Then get a whole bunch of Awakened Chickens to slaughter lower level Chickens until they're at a high enough level to give you XP.

Infinite XP son.


Even at 1st-level, I'm not seeing how a chicken is worth XP...

Eagle but without Flight.

[ericgrau]

Ya once you can get to level 8 and have infinite wealth, I'm sure there are plenty of ways to keep it moving from there. Plus it's EL not CR. You can simply gather enough chickens to get a sufficient EL.

Arguably you could give chickens raven (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/raven.htm) stats and xp. Or if not that, then something else. If a toad (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/toad.htm) has a CR, so does a chicken.

[Psyren]

Eagle but without Flight.

Yeah, no. Even a flightless eagle will put up way more of a fight than a chicken.

[Grollub]

In a game i ran many years ago.. A PC decided he wanted to populate a dungeon with ...


Chickens polymorphed ( via polymorph other ) into various creatures.

I had used a Commoner with Chicken Infested, to "sell" him chickens for this scheme, thus Bobo's Chicken Emporium was born!!

He picked a few creatures and populated like 5 levels of a dungeon with them. Anything that retained chicken intelligence he killed. Anything else was invited to stay in his new dungeon.

For anyone interested, the creatures he picked were : Skulks, Kapak Draconians, Meazels, Spriggans, Dopplegangers

He wanted a "rogue-ish" theme to most the creatures, and gave them each 1 level of the dungeon to "guard"


Much fun ensued )

[Psyren]

^ Actually, now I'm thinking of a BBEG (Acererak? Halaster?) who has trapped a CI-Commoner in the heart of a dungeon, and littered it with self-resetting PAO-traps to transform each wandering chicken into a monstrosity. In the span of a few hours the dungeon would be littered with all manner of deadly denizens.

[ericgrau]

Self-resetting spell traps and PAO aside... wouldn't all these fearsome monstrosities have 1 hp?

[Psyren]

Self-resetting spell traps and PAO aside... wouldn't all these fearsome monstrosities have 1 hp?

Not necessarily - the "except" clause in PAO is very broad/vague.

[Erik Vale]

No, apparently he used a version of summon monster where after the normal duration was up, you no longer controlled them, but since they were called, they lasted forever. Each spell was 3 spell levels higher [based off 3.0 spells of Hallaster's Summon]. Spell traps of these are awesome.

[StreamOfTheSky]

I'm really disappointed that didn't lead to a website explaining truenamers.

Is that better? (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=483.0)

[Necroticplague]

Plenty of games have components that are jokes and are also actually used. Why shouldn't D&D?

Well, I've had quite a few characters use a Collar of perpetual servitude, a joke item from an article about playing cats.

[Malimar]

Ya once you can get to level 8 and have infinite wealth, I'm sure there are plenty of ways to keep it moving from there. Plus it's EL not CR. You can simply gather enough chickens to get a sufficient EL.

Experience calculations are based on the CR of the individual monsters. EL is only for the DM to determine whether a given encounter is a fair fight.

[ericgrau]

Experience calculations are based on the CR of the individual monsters. EL is only for the DM to determine whether a given encounter is a fair fight.
Ah, I'm vague on that. Still when you have limitless resources, you can find a way.

[Sir Chuckles]

Yeah, no. Even a flightless eagle will put up way more of a fight than a chicken.

As per the Raven entry:

The statistics presented here can describe most nonpredatory birds of similar size.
So use a Raven, and replace flight with a glide.
CR 1/6th. 50 EXP per bird at 1st level. You can get to lv7 on 50exp per bird before you don't gain any.
That's about 420 chickens. Since a Commoner could kill the 1hp flat-footed bird in one hit, we can estimate 840 turns for 420 chickens. Calculate misses and we'll just wing it at 1000 turns.
So that would be a little over an hour for that Commoner to reach Lv7.

From there, we'd have to..I dunno, have a Druid with a terrible hatred of chickens awaken them first.

[Rubik]

From there, we'd have to..I dunno, have a Druid with a terrible hatred of chickens awaken them first.Who doesn't hate chickens? There's a reason why most of my protein comes from eating the damned things.

[squiggit]

and we'll just wing it
Or maybe we won't.

Since they're chickens.

[StreamOfTheSky]

If chicken infested were an actual flaw, it'd be like in the Zelda series, where attacking a chicken makes a whole swarm of invincible ones fly in from all directions to peck you to death. :smallwink:

[SowZ]

I get really mad when people used infinite and quick draw in the same sentence.



The PH itself demand you use common sense! Yet people choose to ignore. That's why aberrations such as the "commoner railgun" exist.

Which is totally true in any actual game, but as has been discussed ad nauseum on this forum, RAW assumes a DM who completely lacks in any kind of judgement. It's the sort of RAW trick that doesn't show any weakness in the system and so is an insincere exploit, but is fun for theoretical optimization.

[Psyren]

So use a Raven, and replace flight with a glide.

That won't work, because chickens are predators. Worms may not be particularly threatening prey, but they are still prey :smalltongue:

[Segev]

So the common necromancer uses undead chickens?
This is becoming a thing in a game I'm running. No if's/buts/maybies. A technically Evil necromancer who animates chickens because why not, and other animations for usefulness.

Give him Profession:Plumber and Perform:Explosions, and you can name him Gonzo the Great!

[Erik Vale]

*Misses Reference*

Okay, we can make a level 7 Commoner with Unlimited Wealth in little under 3 hours. Now the real question is why are there level 1 Commoners?

I think the answer is "I dumped Int so didn't know to choose it."

[ericgrau]

That won't work, because chickens are predators. Worms may not be particularly threatening prey, but they are still prey :smalltongue:
Ravens eat worms too. I think they meant mice. Not sure if srs, but either way.

[Sir Chuckles]

*Misses Reference*

Okay, we can make a level 7 Commoner with Unlimited Wealth in little under 3 hours. Now the real question is why are there level 1 Commoners?

I think the answer is "I dumped Int so didn't know to choose it."

Well, not unlimited wealth a that point. Unlimited in the sense than he could Hoard Gullet and vomit masses of chickens to pay for things.
With the 840 chickens you'd have 1680cp, meaning 16.8gp.
Granted, 16.8gp in about 3 hours is better than most other professions.

1 chicken= 2cp= 2 rounds
1 day=24h=1440 minutes=14400 rounds=7200 chickens=144gp/24 hours.

[Psyren]

Ravens eat worms too. I think they meant mice. Not sure if srs, but either way.

Sure they do, but ravens are statted while chickens are not. The statblock doesn't have to be applied to them in this way, because it already is theirs.

[Erik Vale]

So you would pay for things slowly then. Let's hope you we're born something that doesn't need sleep, preferably something with a extended life-span.

Wow, Neraph's became better. Have them all auto-level to 7 then retrain, after having required arbitrary wealth of course unless you wish to keep 1 level of commoner.

[Malroth]

I diddn't think Killing the chickens would be worth XP but negotiating with all the poultry merchants to pay market value for the 1000 tons of chickens you arrive with giving zero notice or avoiding getting murdered by your fellow farmers who suddenly can't sell any of their livestock given the glut in the meat markets all should count as encounters.

[Ksheep]

So you would pay for things slowly then. Let's hope you we're born something that doesn't need sleep, preferably something with a extended life-span.

Wow, Neraph's became better. Have them all auto-level to 7 then retrain, after having required arbitrary wealth of course unless you wish to keep 1 level of commoner.

Chicken Infested Commoner Warforged?

[Fax Celestis]

Plenty of games have components that are jokes and are also actually used. Why shouldn't D&D?

CF: deja vu

[Erik Vale]

Chicken Infested Commoner Warforged?

[Warforged]"Damn, one of my gears is stuck, hold on."
*Pulls out a chicken*
[Random Bystander* "How the f*** did that get in there?"
[Wf]"I don't know but I think that's the problem. Just to be sure though..."
*Pulls out another chicken*


I diddn't think Killing the chickens would be worth XP but negotiating with all the poultry merchants to pay market value for the 1000 tons of chickens you arrive with giving zero notice or avoiding getting murdered by your fellow farmers who suddenly can't sell any of their livestock given the glut in the meat markets all should count as encounters.
That's easy. Your the level 7 with non-commoner levels, they aren't. And Diplomancy is eeeeasy to perform.

Edit: Also (http://www.funnyjunk.com/channel/skyrim/Merchant+Perk/tYgtGgL/)

[SowZ]

Well, not unlimited wealth a that point. Unlimited in the sense than he could Hoard Gullet and vomit masses of chickens to pay for things.
With the 840 chickens you'd have 1680cp, meaning 16.8gp.
Granted, 16.8gp in about 3 hours is better than most other professions.

1 chicken= 2cp= 2 rounds
1 day=24h=1440 minutes=14400 rounds=7200 chickens=144gp/24 hours.

Also, eventually, there'd be so many chickens you couldn't watch them all and they could be easily stolen. It wouldn't be long until the market was flooded and the value of chickens was severely reduced.

[Erik Vale]

IRL, yes.
DnDL, no. See disfunctions the whole way down.

Of course, now a days, Pun-Pun smites Chicken Infested.

[Sir Chuckles]

Also, eventually, there'd be so many chickens you couldn't watch them all and they could be easily stolen. It wouldn't be long until the market was flooded and the value of chickens was severely reduced.

Shhhhhh, there are no rules for that.
Besides, you could do many other things than just sell the chickens. Corner the market on poultry, feathers for arrows, sinew for all kinds of things, bones for necromancers, and I bet some spells have obscure material components.

[Grollub]

gather up all the chickens, and train them ...

The Chicken Swarm is born!


or if you use BoVD... hive mind them.. :smallcool:

[ericgrau]

Also, eventually, there'd be so many chickens you couldn't watch them all and they could be easily stolen. It wouldn't be long until the market was flooded and the value of chickens was severely reduced.
Hire people. In fact, hire people for distribution too. It may not be unlimited wealth then, but becoming Foster Farms is nothing to sneeze at.

Now the tricky part is getting past level 7. Your high wealth can help you get several more, but if you want to truly go near-infinite the trick needs to be fueled directly by chickens. You could take druid levels, awaken them, have them fight each other for xp, and kill them perhaps.

[gorfnab]

Chicken Infested + Quick Draw + Greater Consumptive Field + Improved Unarmed Strike
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v232/Vegitto-Kun/Forum/Chickensgivemestrength1.jpg
Two Chicken Infested Builds: The Masters of Cluck-Fu


Lo and behold, the mighty chicken-warrior is here!


I'm sure this has been done sometime before, but as I couldn't find it on these boards, I present you...


Joe "Chuck" Awesome

Human Commoner1/Monk2/Paladin2/Fighter2/Warblade1/Bloodstormblade4/DrunkenMaster8
(not necessarily in that order)

Build Progression:
ECL 1 Commoner 1 Flaws: Chicken Infested, Shaky->Feats: Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty, Nymph's kiss, Great Fortitude
ECL 2 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 1 Touch of Golden Ice, Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike
ECL 3 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 2 Mobility, -FREE FEAT-
ECL 4 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 2/Fighter 1 Quickdraw, Servant of the Heavens
ECL 5 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 2/Fighter 2 Improved Initiative
ECL 6 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 2/Fighter 2/Drunken Master 1 Nimbus of Light, -FREE FEAT-
ECL 7 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 2/Fighter 2/Drunken Master 2
ECL 8 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 2/Fighter 2/Drunken Master 3 -Holy Radiance-
ECL 9 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 2/Fighter 2/Drunken Master 4 -FREE FEAT-
ECL 10 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 2/Fighter 2/Drunken Master 5 -Vow of Obedience-
ECL 11 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 2/Fighter 2/Drunken Master 6
ECL 12 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 2/Fighter 2/Drunken Master 7 -Intuitive attack-, -FREE FEAT-
ECL 13 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 2/Fighter 2/Drunken Master 8
ECL 14 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 2/Fighter 2/Drunken Master 8/Paladin 1 -Gift of Faith-
ECL 15 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 2/Fighter 2/Drunken Master 8/Paladin 2
ECL 16 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 2/Fighter 2/Drunken Master 8/Paladin 2/Warblade 1 -Gift of Grace-
ECL 17 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 2/Fighter 2/Drunken Master 8/Paladin 2/Warblade 1/Bloodstorm Blade 1
ECL 18 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 2/Fighter 2/Drunken Master 8/Paladin 2/Warblade 1/Bloodstorm Blade 2 -Hands of a Healer-, -FREE FEAT-
ECL 19 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 2/Fighter 2/Drunken Master 8/Paladin 2/Warblade 1/Bloodstorm Blade 3 -Bonus Fighter feat-
ECL 20 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 2/Fighter 2/Drunken Master 8/Paladin 2/Warblade 1/Bloodstorm Blade 4 -Stigmata-


Obviously, this build isn't perfected yet. I have one free fighter feat(and am treated as 5th level fighter in order to qualify for feats) and FIVE other open feats.

I could pick up the TWF chain, or spring attack, or whatever else.

It doesn't matter.

What *does* matter, however, is that this guy has 16 BaB, can quickdraw chickens out of thin air, and bludgeon opponents to death with them, dealing 1d6+1d8+5+STR damage.
Optionally, he can *throw* these chickens as bloodstorm blade for even more sillyness.



Tom "Chuck" Awesome, or "HOLY HELL HE'S THROWING BURNING CHICKENS! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES!"

Silverbrow Human Commoner1/Monk3/Bard3/Warblade7/BloodstormBlade4/DrunkenMaster2
(not necessarily in that order)

Build Progression:
ECL 1 Commoner 1 Flaws: Chicken Infested, Shaky->Feats: Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty, Nymph's kiss, Extra Favored Class: Commoner, Great Fortitude
ECL 2 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 1 Touch of Golden Ice, Dodge, Improved Unarmed Strike
ECL 3 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 2 Mobility, -FREE FEAT(TWF?)-
ECL 4 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 2/Bard 1 Servant of the Heavens
ECL 5 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 2/Bard 2
ECL 6 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 2/Bard 2/Warblade 1 Nimbus of Light, Song of the White Raven
ECL 7 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 2/Bard 2/Warblade 2
ECL 8 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 2/Bard 3/Warblade 2 Words of Creation
ECL 9 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 3/Bard 3/Warblade 2 Dragonfire Inspiration
ECL 10 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 3/Bard 3/Warblade 2/Drunken Master 1 Holy Radiance
ECL 11 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 3/Bard 3/Warblade 2/Drunken Master 2
ECL 12 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 3/Bard 3/Warblade 2/Drunken Master 2/Bloodstorm Blade 1 Intuitive attack, -FREE FEAT(Leadership?)-
ECL 13 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 3/Bard 3/Warblade 2/Drunken Master 2/Bloodstorm Blade 2
ECL 14 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 3/Bard 3/Warblade 2/Drunken Master 2/Bloodstorm Blade 3 Gift of Faith, -FREE FIGHTER FEAT(ITWF?)-
ECL 15 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 3/Bard 3/Warblade 2/Drunken Master 2/Bloodstorm Blade 4 -FREE FEAT(GTWF?)-
ECL 16 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 3/Bard 3/Warblade 3/Drunken Master 2/Bloodstorm Blade 4 Stigmata
ECL 17 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 3/Bard 3/Warblade 4/Drunken Master 2/Bloodstorm Blade 4
ECL 18 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 3/Bard 3/Warblade 5/Drunken Master 2/Bloodstorm Blade 4 Quickdraw, Vow of Obedience, Song of the Heart
ECL 19 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 3/Bard 3/Warblade 6/Drunken Master 2/Bloodstorm Blade 4
ECL 20 Commoner 1/Monk(Cobra Strike Variant) 3/Bard 3/Warblade 7/Drunken Master 2/Bloodstorm Blade 4 -Bonus Exalted Feat(Vow of Chastity?)-


This build can produce Inspire courage effects of a 10th level bard, i.e. +2.
Words of creation doubles that to +4, song of the heart adds another +1, inspirational boost adds another +1, for a total of +6/+6 up to three times per day.
Alternatively, you can change that +6/+6 bonus into +6d6 fire damage thanks to dragonfire inspiration, and fight with FLAMING CHICKENS.

Other than that...you get into to damage if you flank/catch an opponent flatfooted, have bardic knowledge of +(3+int), wis to AC, all VoP benefits as usual(though the extremely limited list of exalted feats did make me take some exalted feats I'd usually avoid...precisely, Vow of Obedience and Vow of Chastity), 1d6 base unarmed damage, 1d6+1d4 base damage with chickens(who are treated as +5 magic and goodaligned weapons, btw), some maneuvers(Initiator level 13, so up to 7th level maneuvers! Late Warblade levels also allow for very high-level maneuvers), a +10ft enhancement bonus to speed from Monk, all the typical Bloodstorm Blade Goodies, the drunken master's STAGGER ability, allowing for some very fun charges...

[Kennisiou]

The thing about chicken infested is that a chicken infested commoner is T2 just by virtue of it being able to occasionally break the game. If you're going by the tiers it fits that to a T. The problem is when they aren't breaking the game with infinite chickens they're useless, whereas, say, an Ardent is still going to be doing something if it's not completely tearing apart an encounter backwards.

When you see the other builds posted in this thread, they mostly just go Commoner 1 and never again. This is because it gets the gamebreaking T2 ability it has right away and never gets another one or any features that progress it. As long as it's chicken infested, commoner 20 is a T2 class. Commoner 1 with chicken infested that goes into dread necro or cleric or another class will be a better T2 build, assuming it isn't a T1 build. That's just how it works. A chicken infested commoner that takes its other 19 levels in samurai is still a T2 build because it can just randomly break the game.

3.5 is kinda odd like that, in that a lot of classes have a lot of powerful class features front-loaded. Monk/fighter/barbarian's first couple of levels are great examples of this, as is the famous one level cloistered cleric dip or three levels swashbuckler. Chicken infested commoner is odd because it's the only thing that front-loads a class feature that outright breaks the game.

[Alent]

As per the Raven entry:

So use a Raven, and replace flight with a glide.
CR 1/6th. 50 EXP per bird at 1st level. You can get to lv7 on 50exp per bird before you don't gain any.
That's about 420 chickens. Since a Commoner could kill the 1hp flat-footed bird in one hit, we can estimate 840 turns for 420 chickens. Calculate misses and we'll just wing it at 1000 turns.
So that would be a little over an hour for that Commoner to reach Lv7.

From there, we'd have to..I dunno, have a Druid with a terrible hatred of chickens awaken them first.

If I remember right... you don't actually have to take that level up when you have the EXP to qualify for it... you can delay advancement until you're ready.

Whether or not your DM would let you stay at level 5 or so instagibbing 4200+ chickens to advance from level 5 to level 20+ is another matter entirely.

... This sounds like a great backstory for the party of a "Starts at level 20" game.

[ryu]

If I remember right... you don't actually have to take that level up when you have the EXP to qualify for it... you can delay advancement until you're ready.

Whether or not your DM would let you stay at level 5 or so instagibbing 4200+ chickens to advance from level 5 to level 20+ is another matter entirely.

... This sounds like a great backstory for the party of a "Starts at level 20" game.

Can't gain more than one level per encounter.

[Alent]

Can't gain more than one level per encounter.

I feel like this was simplified to the point of losing clarity. Do you mean, you can't have two levels of unspent EXP at a time? Or that you'd have to take a level, kill a chicken, rinse, lather, repeat?

[ryu]

You can hold back levels for as long as you like for my knowledge. Thing is though no matter how over your CR the encounter is it will stop granting XP just short of granting a second level for the same encounter.

[Somensjev]

You can hold back levels for as long as you like for my knowledge. Thing is though no matter how over your CR the encounter is it will stop granting XP just short of granting a second level for the same encounter.

couldn't you claim they're each a separate encounter?
or take a days break in between each level's-worth of experience? :smallconfused:

[ryu]

couldn't you claim they're each a separate encounter?
or take a days break in between each level's-worth of experience? :smallconfused:

That would work. Killing all the targets in one fight is a waste though.

[Sir Chuckles]

If I remember right... you don't actually have to take that level up when you have the EXP to qualify for it... you can delay advancement until you're ready.

Whether or not your DM would let you stay at level 5 or so instagibbing 4200+ chickens to advance from level 5 to level 20+ is another matter entirely.

... This sounds like a great backstory for the party of a "Starts at level 20" game.

That's...actually....true...
*mind explodes*

Anyway, then you'd just need to find the exp needed for lv20. 50 exp per chicken to reach 190,000exp is only 3800 chickens. And we already found 7200 chickens in 24 hours.

This is a great way to make a DM walk to the library for ammunition.

[Drachasor]

I thought the experience rules explicitly said that if something was not a challenge in any sense, then the DM should not reward any experience -- even if otherwise experience would be rewarded.

Hmm, I'll have to check when I get home.

[Necroticplague]

Commoner1/druid1. Wild empathy all the chickens into liking you, then have them hang around and use aid other to give you massive bonuses to everything.

[Drachasor]

Chicken Infested + Quick Draw + Greater Consumptive Field + Improved Unarmed Strike
...
Two Chicken Infested Builds: The Masters of Cluck-Fu



This hand of mine burns with an awesome fowl. It's fiery cluck tells me to defeat you!
FLAMING CHICKEN!

[Ksheep]

Shhhhhh, there are no rules for that.
Besides, you could do many other things than just sell the chickens. Corner the market on poultry, feathers for arrows, sinew for all kinds of things, bones for necromancers, and I bet some spells have obscure material components.

Actually, yes there are rules for it. Arms and Equipment Guide, in the section on Trade Goods, talks about economic systems, and how commodity demand changes the price. That said, even if the area is oversupplied (the highest availability level) with Chickens, the cost would only decrease by 20%. However, if you were to go somewhere that was desperate for chickens (a Black Market level of availability), you'd get 100+% more per chicken (well, until you shift the supply enough to bump it into a different level of demand/availability).

[ericgrau]

If I remember right... you don't actually have to take that level up when you have the EXP to qualify for it... you can delay advancement until you're ready.

Whether or not your DM would let you stay at level 5 or so instagibbing 4200+ chickens to advance from level 5 to level 20+ is another matter entirely.

... This sounds like a great backstory for the party of a "Starts at level 20" game.
Ya but IIRC you can't save up more than 2 levels of experience, minus 1 xp.

[Threadnaught]

I feel like this was simplified to the point of losing clarity. Do you mean, you can't have two levels of unspent EXP at a time? Or that you'd have to take a level, kill a chicken, rinse, lather, repeat?

Both, you can't level up twice from a single encounter and you may have a maximum xp of enough to level up twice -1.

So from 1st level, you kill enough Chickens to reach 3rd level, level up, kill enough to reach 4th, level up, kill enough to reach 5th...
When you've killed 420 Chickens, you should be 7th level. Pay a passing Druid/Artificer to give you a Spellclock or something to cast Awaken x times Per Day.
Then give each Awakened Chicken Class Levels in Samurai, the Complete Warrior version. Due to how the CR system works, this'll improve their CR without making them much of a threat. It may take a little longer, but you should still be able to choke Chickens all the way to 20th.

[Necroticplague]

Both, you can't level up twice from a single encounter and you may have a maximum xp of enough to level up twice -1.

So from 1st level, you kill enough Chickens to reach 3rd level, level up, kill enough to reach 4th, level up, kill enough to reach 5th...
When you've killed 420 Chickens, you should be 7th level. Pay a passing Druid/Artificer to give you a Spellclock or something to cast Awaken x times Per Day.
Then give each Awakened Chicken Class Levels in Samurai, the Complete Warrior version. Due to how the CR system works, this'll improve their CR without making them much of a threat. It may take a little longer, but you should still be able to choke Chickens all the way to 20th.

Just to be sure, you should probably give them levels of wizard instead. Less hp, and its not like they could have benefited anyway (given they may not have the int to cast and certainly have been alive long enough to prepare). Of course, I guess it depends on what the associated class for a chicken is.

Or for extra hilarity, the chickens with class levels themselves are chicken-infested commoners.

[Inevitability]

I should run a campaign once where theoretical optimization is not only abused used by PC's, but where every single NPC will have it.

Lines of commoners will bring people (after a reduce person spell) or items (in a bag of holding) from one place to another at the speed of light. Chickens will make up 99% of the population of the world. And the most powerful deity will be a small scaled kobold, whose holy symbol is a small candle. :smalltongue:

[Talya]

I get really mad when people used infinite and quick draw in the same sentence.



The PH itself demand you use common sense! Yet people choose to ignore. That's why aberrations such as the "commoner railgun" exist.

The moment you begin discussing the silliness that is "Chicken Infested," one must assume that common sense is already out the window, if only for consistency.

[Threadnaught]

Just to be sure, you should probably give them levels of wizard instead. Less hp, and its not like they could have benefited anyway (given they may not have the int to cast and certainly have been alive long enough to prepare).

Consider for a moment that the Awakened Chickens are taking Class Levels, so they may level up and take more levels in the Class, so they may be killed for XP by a higher level Chicken Infested character. Wizard is not the right Class to give would be rebellious Chickens.

They get an Intelligence of 3-18, +3 Charisma and +2HD from being Awakened. Approximately half of the Wizard Chickens would be able to cast Spells and if you're trying to level up as quickly as possible, it'd be this half that kept winning the gladiatorial fights you keep putting them in to help you level faster. And once you're at a high enough level that you'd need to fight CR8 Chickens, some of them could know how to use Dimension Door. Maybe there's a few Conjurers with Abrupt Jaunt.
Once you get into either of these situations, you risk the events of Chicken Run, except the Chickens will eventually return to turn you into meat for their Human Pies.

I wouldn't take that risk.

[Hamste]

Give them levels in truenamer, laugh as they try to affect you with utterances without items that boost their checks while you have a lot higher cr than them. You could also just give them levels in commoner (make sure they aren't chicken infested though, wouldn't want to give them any ideas about killing their own chickens for exp)

[Ksheep]

Consider for a moment that the Awakened Chickens are taking Class Levels, so they may level up and take more levels in the Class, so they may be killed for XP by a higher level Chicken Infested character. Wizard is not the right Class to give would be rebellious Chickens.

They get an Intelligence of 3-18, +3 Charisma and +2HD from being Awakened. Approximately half of the Wizard Chickens would be able to cast Spells and if you're trying to level up as quickly as possible, it'd be this half that kept winning the gladiatorial fights you keep putting them in to help you level faster. And once you're at a high enough level that you'd need to fight CR8 Chickens, some of them could know how to use Dimension Door. Maybe there's a few Conjurers with Abrupt Jaunt.
Once you get into either of these situations, you risk the events of Chicken Run, except the Chickens will eventually return to turn you into meat for their Human Pies.

I wouldn't take that risk.

They wouldn't have spell books and wouldn't have time to prepare spells if you just throw them into a pit and had them fight.

[ryu]

They wouldn't have spell books and wouldn't have time to prepare spells if you just throw them into a pit and had them fight.

Spellbook is free upon getting the class. Further good luck preventing them from preparing any spells at all as they advance in levels.

[Threadnaught]

Spellbook is free upon getting the class. Further good luck preventing them from preparing any spells at all as they advance in levels.

Let's assume that the 1st level Chicken Wizards created by the character, have their Spellbooks confiscated and destroyed. Don't worry, I have a problem, even with this assumption in mind. :smallwink:


They wouldn't have spell books and wouldn't have time to prepare spells if you just throw them into a pit and had them fight.

If it's possible for Chickens to take the Abrupt Jaunt ACF, it'll be possible for them to take Eidetic Spellcaster.
Also Feats haven't been brought up, if a Wizard isn't allowed access to Components or Component Pouches, do they take Eschew Materials?
If they're Awakened, there's every possibility that they'll wait until after the first day of fighting, before prepping. There's the possibility that they'll wait until the night time when they reach CR9-10 and prepare Tiny Hut, in which they Sleep for 8 hours, lay an egg and prepare their Spells.

Right, so the Chicken Rebellion is a distinct possibility with Wizards. Really is better to go with a weaker Class that gets as few tricks as possible.


Never go up against Chicken Druids, they have other Chickens as their Animal Companions, can transform into other creatures and will eventually Awaken other Chickens.

[Rubik]

Spellbook is free upon getting the class. Further good luck preventing them from preparing any spells at all as they advance in levels.Fun thing: wizard chickens' spellbooks can be sold off after they die, leading to a bigger profit margin. Remember, spellbooks have ALL cantrips in the game. See if you can train the chickens with feats such as Mercantile Background and Collegiate Wizard, meaning they gain double the spells in their spellbooks and an extra 300 gp in gear you can sell.

[Haldir]

Free metamagic reduction for spontaneous casting if you're chicken infested and have Fel Animate, Spell Damage and Undead Battery from that Dragonlance game.... Always...

[Rubik]

There's no reason to take more than one level in commoner, remember, and every reason to take levels in other things. You're only taking that one level for the flaw, after all.

[Socksy]

This thread is beautiful.
You're all beautiful.

[Joe the Rat]

Fun thing: wizard chickens' spellbooks can be sold off after they die, leading to a bigger profit margin. Remember, spellbooks have ALL cantrips in the game. See if you can train the chickens with feats such as Mercantile Background and Collegiate Wizard, meaning they gain double the spells in their spellbooks and an extra 300 gp in gear you can sell.

How would that stack up money-wise compared to, say, an ancestral daisho set? If it's comparable, I'd be inclined to go with Awakened Chicken Samurai(CW). Chicken Wizards have a non-zero chance of escaping Poultrydome and engage in game-breaking shenanigans of their own. You can't rely on lack of preparation time to save you - I've yet to be in a game where the wizard didn't start with spells prepared.

Samurai Chicken is a much safer option. Same CR, without that pesky warping reality thing.

[Necroticplague]

I've yet to be in a game where the wizard didn't start with spells prepared.

Samurai Chicken is a much safer option. Same CR, without that pesky warping reality thing.

Yes, but presumably you haven't been a wizard for all of 12 seconds. Without hands to scribe with.

[Rubik]

One more thing about being a chicken-infested commoner: chickens are considered a trade good, so you can sell them at full price, rather than half.

And on that note: you have an NPC class, so you could technically be considered an NPC, which means the "sell for 1/2 cost" rule shouldn't apply to you. You found a weird robe of the arch-magi, which is a robe of the archmagi but made for architecture? Sell it at full market-price!