5th edition release date leaked [Archive] - Giant in the Playground Forums

Afgncaap5

2014-03-02, 05:07 PM

I'm a little disappointed with the implication that Forgotten Realms will sort of be the default setting of the next edition.

Not surprised, mind you. Just... disappointed.

I'm pretty sure that 3.5 will still be my main game, but I've enjoyed one or two of the things from the playtest. I may buy the core rulebooks to try 'em out.

squiggit

2014-03-02, 05:15 PM

I'm a little disappointed with the implication that Forgotten Realms will sort of be the default setting of the next edition.

Well it makes sense, it has the most raw content of any of their settings and is the most "basic fantasy" one they have (with the bonus of OA and Al-qadim for some variety if you want).

I'm hoping they give s'more support to alternate campaign settings though than the did in 4e.

Mostly I'm having trouble seeing the appeal. I already have Pathfinder and 3.5 and others if I want to play a 3.x variant. 5e seems to be in this weird spot where it's simultaneously too conservative to catch my eye yet somehow still lacking in the magic that the game it's building off of had. Maybe that'll change though.

Alefiend

2014-03-02, 05:22 PM

I'm a little disappointed with the implication that Forgotten Realms will sort of be the default setting of the next edition.

Not surprised, mind you. Just... disappointed.

I grew up in the Greyhawk era and never felt any affinity for it whatsoever. Forgotten Realms was the first published game world that felt alive and flavorful to me. I can't say I care much for where it went or where it is now—I don't honestly know—but it had a spark that Greyhawk never did.

Of course, I'll still be playing in a homebrew world, or perhaps Golarion, but I just wanted to rebut. We all have our preferences.

Afgncaap5

2014-03-02, 05:28 PM

I grew up in the Greyhawk era and never felt any affinity for it whatsoever. Forgotten Realms was the first published game world that felt alive and flavorful to me. I can't say I care much for where it went or where it is now—I don't honestly know—but it had a spark that Greyhawk never did.

Of course, I'll still be playing in a homebrew world, or perhaps Golarion, but I just wanted to rebut. We all have our preferences.

Honestly, I'd like Greyhawk to be done in a more overt way. 3.5 sort of assumed that it was the default setting, but never really expanded upon the fact that that's where you were. This is probably just because I didn't start playing until 3.5, but FR just seems sort of lackluster to me, probably because so many other books just go with the FR defaults as assumed. I don't know anything about Greyhawk, though, apart from the Tomb of Horrors, Mordenkainen, and the fact that there's a guy named Catlord.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not blaming WotC for using Forgotten Realms. They'd be foolish not to, it's a crazy cash cow. But... I just sort of want something different. And by different, I probably mean 1e the same, I guess.

Ansem

2014-03-02, 06:31 PM

Now if only they made an edition that's improved I'll care about it.

CyberThread

2014-03-02, 06:35 PM

If it makes you folks feel better, planescape and spacejammer are coming back this edition.

Phelix-Mu

2014-03-02, 06:47 PM

If it makes you folks feel better, planescape and spacejammer are coming back this edition.

Oh, please tell me they didn't change the name. Spelljammer, and it seems to me they would be wise not to change the branding. (Not that they are aiming for the demographic that would remember the original....)

Karnith

2014-03-02, 07:08 PM

If it makes you folks feel better, planescape and spacejammer are coming back this edition.
It took me a second to realize that you probably meant Spelljammer, which is a shame because I was totally psyched for something else.
http://i1304.photobucket.com/albums/s533/Karnith/SillyStuff2_zpsb1d2558d.png

Zaydos

2014-03-02, 07:10 PM

And now I'm finally interested in 5e. Because Planescape and Spelljammer (Planescape was easily adapted to 3.X and mostly it's just using its fluff in 3.X; adapting Spelljammer space rules in a way that was fulfilling was instead much more difficult and maybe they'll do it well unlike the fan-site or the polyhedron issue).

Flickerdart

2014-03-02, 07:18 PM

Well it makes sense, it has the most raw content of any of their settings and is the most "basic fantasy" one they have (with the bonus of OA and Al-qadim for some variety if you want).
Al-qadim? I've never heard of that one.

Karnith

2014-03-02, 07:23 PM

Al-qadim? I've never heard of that one.
Al-Qadim (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Qadim) is a campaign setting inspired by the classic tales of Arabian Nights. It takes place in the peninsula of Zakhara, which is a part of Abeir-Toril. Like Kara-Tur, it's one of those places in Toril that doesn't have a lot of contact with the rest of the world, and that doesn't have a lot of attention focused on it in official material (particularly after 2E).

Flickerdart

2014-03-02, 07:26 PM

Oh, that's pretty neat. Having an Arabian Nights sort of feel to a setting might well do away with the "we're pseudo-medieval but not really" impression that a lot of people seem to use to justify fighters being rubbish.

Phelix-Mu

2014-03-02, 10:55 PM

Both Al-qadim and Kara-Tur both had some really good art in their sourcebooks, from what I recall. I definitely liked the flavor, even if I never really played much in those dedicated settings (though we stole heavily from the flavor for a number of missions).

Really was kind of irritating how much of the good fluff and settings from 2e barely got mentioned in 3e. Alas, I suppose 2e just had a lot longer to publish stuff, and overall had a lot of chaff mixed in with the wheat.

EDIT: Karnith, your picture link above is broken. Also, nice new avatar.

CyberThread

2014-03-02, 11:04 PM

kara-tur got support in the way of unapprochable east, sorta.

Invader

2014-03-02, 11:14 PM

I wouldn't have minded seeing a brand new setting, something to breath a little new life into the lore.

Lord Vukodlak

2014-03-02, 11:19 PM

Further more you have all the video games that take place in that setting. Icewind of Dale, The Baldur's Gate series(bhaal spawn saga), Neverwinter Nights series etc. I have no doubt the success of Baldur's Gate I/II Enhanced Edition influenced the decision to revive Bhaal of course its a kick in the nuts to the game's ending.

I hope he and Bane get together and kill Cyric... which I'm shocked hasn't happened yet. Given all the damage the mad god has done to the Realms you'd think his enemies(every other deity worshiped on Toril) would agree to a truce until he was dead.)

Malimar

2014-03-02, 11:20 PM

Spelljammer, getting official support? Interesting if true. Especially if they completely embrace the preposterous, off-the-wall wackiness that characterizes the setting, and not try to make everything SRS BSNS like they've done with everything else.

Petrocorus

2014-03-02, 11:21 PM

The thing with Greyhawk in 3.5 is that you cannot find all the main information about the setting in one or two book as you can with Forgotten or Eberron.

I'm actually eager to see what this 5th ed looks like. I hope they will published a free quick starter soon.

Flickerdart

2014-03-02, 11:34 PM

Lord Vukodlak

2014-03-03, 12:51 AM

Hasn't he been dead for ages? Kelemvor has been the god of the Dead for some time now.

Your thinking of Myrkul the third member of the "dead" three. I guess its going to be the dead "one" as his Bane returned sometime ago and Bhaal is set to be resurrected. An alliance of deities wrestled the portfolio of the dead from Cyric and gave it to Kelemvor.

Cyric had a hand in the deaths of maybe ten deities. Though he only personally killed three of them. Others he either had a hand in their death or they died a direct result of his actions such as Azuth.

Sith_Happens

2014-03-03, 08:41 AM

Cyric had a hand in the deaths of maybe ten deities. Though he only personally killed three of them. Others he either had a hand in their death or they died a direct result of his actions such as Azuth.

Remind me why the heck the rest of the pantheon left him alive long enough for his body count to get nearly that high?:smallconfused:

Karnith

2014-03-03, 08:58 AM

Remind me why the heck the rest of the pantheon left him alive long enough for his body count to get nearly that high?:smallconfused:
If the Forgotten Realms wiki is to be believed (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Cyric), the other gods did trap him in the Supreme Throne for a thousand years or so after he offed Mystra. Prior to that, I vaguely recall (from Prince of Lies, or maybe Crucible: The Trial of Cyric the Mad?) that most gods didn't interfere because he was just performing his function as the God of Murder; so long as he wasn't targeting them or some direct part of their portfolio, they had no stake in opposing him.

EDIT: Karnith, your picture link above is broken. Also, nice new avatar.
Oops. Well it's fixed now. Also, thanks.

Sith_Happens

2014-03-03, 09:21 AM

Prior to that, I vaguely recall (from Prince of Lies, or maybe Crucible: The Trial of Cyric the Mad?) that most gods didn't interfere because he was just performing his function as the God of Murder; so long as he wasn't targeting them or some direct part of their portfolio, they had no stake in opposing him.

Sure, he wasn't targeting them yet, but after the second intra-office murder or so you'd have to be just as crazy as him to not start strongly considering the possibility that you might be next.

Big Fau

2014-03-03, 09:26 AM

I grew up in the Greyhawk era and never felt any affinity for it whatsoever. Forgotten Realms was the first published game world that felt alive and flavorful to me. I can't say I care much for where it went or where it is now—I don't honestly know—but it had a spark that Greyhawk never did.

Of course, I'll still be playing in a homebrew world, or perhaps Golarion, but I just wanted to rebut. We all have our preferences.

It was the opposite for me: I despise FR's heavily established cannon because it leaves little room for the players to branch out without stepping on the toes of 15 different groups, some of which are canonically willing to smite the PCs for those tiny transgressions (and a vast majority in the Epic weight class). Even though the DM is fully capable of ignoring those traits, the fact is there's a lot of players out there who adore FR canon and some of them get quite upset when the DM doesn't have the world as close to canon as it gets.

Karnith

2014-03-03, 09:30 AM

Sure, he wasn't targeting them yet, but after the second intra-office murder or so you'd have to be just as crazy as him to not start strongly considering the possibility that you might be next.
Yes, the gods of Faerun are very stupid. In Crucible: The Trial of Cyric the Mad (after his second or third god-murder), the greater deities had their chance to strip him of his divinity and kill him in the eponymous trial, but instead decided that it was A-OK for him to keep his power because he was using it to murder and cause strife (i.e. because he was acting within his portfolio). Moreover, the gods who went out of their way to try to stop Cyric (namely, Mystra) got reprimanded for acting outside of their portfolio.

Fax Celestis

2014-03-03, 10:10 AM

It was the opposite for me: I despise FR's heavily established cannon because it leaves little room for the players to branch out without stepping on the toes of 15 different groups, some of which are canonically willing to smite the PCs for those tiny transgressions (and a vast majority in the Epic weight class). Even though the DM is fully capable of ignoring those traits, the fact is there's a lot of players out there who adore FR canon and some of them get quite upset when the DM doesn't have the world as close to canon as it gets.

You and me both.

SpawnOfMorbo

2014-03-03, 10:19 AM

Now if only they made an edition that's improved I'll care about it.

Do note that the public play test is apparently vastly different from what the private play tests look like.

So don't be so discouraged by the public play tests.

Al-qadim and SpellJammer should be awesome :D (Note: if they put effort into it and hire a damn editor)

lord_khaine

2014-03-03, 11:06 AM

You and me both.

And this reason alone is why i wastly prefer Eberon.

Of course, that i greatly dislike Elminster is only one more reason to avoid the place.

CyberThread

2014-03-03, 11:27 AM

Lets not turn this into a I hate this circlejerk please :-)

Pyromancer999

2014-03-03, 11:31 AM

I know I'm going to get the Player's Handbook just to give it all a shot myself. Honestly don't know how the quality will be, but being hopeful that it'll be good.

Kurald Galain

2014-03-03, 11:33 AM

If it makes you folks feel better, planescape and spacejammer are coming back this edition.

The question is, are they actually going to release Spelljammer and Planescape books again, or are they going to throw two or three paragraphs about them in some other splatbook and call it a day?

Phelix-Mu

2014-03-03, 11:34 AM

Part of the reason FR can be hard to deal with is that it is a heavily narrative world, and many of the historical events can be somewhat unbelievable given the way the game works. This can be irritating if you want the world to look like the game, but I rather like the world just for itself. However, they have done a good job at hacking the setting to bits over the past few years, to the extent that I have started to ignore canon. The parallels with Star Wars canon are, quite frankly, depressing.

But, back to the point of the thread, I probably will not buy 5e anything. WotC seriously offended me by chucking in the towel on 3.5, and by the time they announced 5e, it was pretty clear that they are just going to create a new game system every five years or so. I have no desire to play the planned-obsoletion game with my books budget, especially for products that are largely incompatible (no effort was made to make 4e compatible with or convertible from 3e). There is huge room in 3e/PF to do whatever I might ever want to do with the game, and 5e would have to have unicorns and puppies included with every book in order to make me consider buying one.

squiggit

2014-03-03, 11:34 AM

Personally I like most of DnD's established settings.

But in part that might be because I generally ignore most of the established world concepts and just cannibalize things I like for vaguely defined generic settings where most anything goes (So we get dragonmarked thri-keen swordmages who worship Abadar)

So the campaign settings are just potential inspiration.

But, back to the point of the thread, I probably will not buy 5e anything. WotC seriously offended me by chucking in the towel on 3.5
That seems to be a pattern for them unfortunately. Most of my friends (myself included) feel the same at about 4e. Edition abruptly abandoned so they can try to sell another set of core books.

12owlbears

2014-03-03, 11:41 AM

I hope he and Bane get together and kill Cyric
I would prefer for Helm to return and kick Cyric's ass but that would be good to.

Petrocorus

2014-03-03, 11:44 AM

And this reason alone is why i wastly prefer Eberon.

You mean it's not for the dinos and the robots?

I actually was quite surprised when i read the ECS. The NPC are rather low level. Or mid level at most. And use a lot of NPC classes. It is really made so a high level PC party can really have a world-shaping influence.

Actually, does any of you have done this in game, conquering or reshaping a whole county?

Fax Celestis

2014-03-03, 01:08 PM

Actually, does any of you have done this in game, conquering or reshaping a whole county?

You should look up the Kingmaker adventure.

Big Fau

2014-03-03, 01:16 PM

Lets not turn this into a I hate this circlejerk please :-)

Isn't that how most threads about the newest edition end up? We're just keeping up a tradition my friend.

You mean it's not for the dinos and the robots?

I actually was quite surprised when i read the ECS. The NPC are rather low level. Or mid level at most. And use a lot of NPC classes. It is really made so a high level PC party can really have a world-shaping influence.

Actually, does any of you have done this in game, conquering or reshaping a whole county?

There are some flukes (Io'Lokar, an NPC Magewright, and a few others), but most survivors of the Last War are generally assumed to be either 3rd level (pure NPC classes) or 1st-2nd level (PC classes).

And my players once conquered the Shadow Marches via House Tharask, then went on to take over Droam.

You should look up the Kingmaker adventure.

Not entirely relevant to Eberron, which I assume what Petrocorus was referencing when he asked that question.

Fax Celestis

2014-03-03, 01:22 PM

Not entirely relevant to Eberron, which I assume what Petrocorus was referencing when he asked that question.

It's definitely adaptable. There's plenty of wild space in Eberron to fit it in.

Petrocorus

2014-03-03, 03:45 PM

I was rather speaking of Eberron, given that in other setting there are plenty of ery high level NPC, albeit unoptimized. But i'll try to look Kingmaker up. Is it Forgotten Realms?

I also thought that the most sourthern part of the Demon Wastes could be "conquerable", the mostly barbarian tribe there. It will probably require highly powerful magic to make the land more fertile and liveable.

Alent

2014-03-03, 03:46 PM

SpawnOfMorbo

2014-03-03, 03:56 PM

I would really like to see two versions of each setting.

High Optimization and Low Optimization

Seriously... This could really help a lot of DMs not have to deal with changing the stuff in the game to reflect a high op or low op group.

This could be everything from changing organization tactics all the way to monster tactics. In a low op world the thieves guild won't come kill the party for not paying tribute but perhaps in the high op world that same thieves guild will try to kill the party from level 1 to level 20.

WotC need to realize that not everyone plays in the same level and sometimes a group needs to be challenged more than the normal.

The high op books could be called "Epic Levels 1-20 ".

Flickerdart

2014-03-03, 04:05 PM

That would require WotC to admit that not all options are equal, which they would never do.

SpawnOfMorbo

2014-03-03, 04:11 PM

That would require WotC to admit that not all options are equal, which they would never do.

True, though if someone could drum up public support for this idea... They may do something like this.

And really this difference really changes the entire dynamic of a setting that you couldn't just put both options in one book.

Psyren

2014-03-04, 10:03 AM

Petrocorus

2014-03-04, 10:14 AM

And no, I don't mean that GSL crap.

What is GSL?

SpawnOfMorbo

2014-03-04, 10:15 AM

Will any of it be OGL? That's my primary concern, everything else comes second.

And no, I don't mean that GSL crap. Though I do wonder whether the new license (whatever it is) will restrict publishers from developing for 4e/3.5

Well there has been talk of an OGL that is nicer than the one for 4e.

Also I heard talk of an apple store like setup. 3rd party can use the OGL but they have to sell the books and stuff through the wotc store (which wotc takes their cut).

I'm not sure how they will go but if they want to squash Paizo then some sort of OGL will be needed so that more people will support it.

The thing is... Right now Next is so close to 3.5 that some could argue that is should be under the same OGL as 3.5... Which wotc would hate.

Also if they are touting that all editions can play under this new game... I've heard talks that 4e GSL could change (no clue how) to be more like the OGL...

I have no clue how this stuff really works, I'm no lawyer, but those are some of things I've heard so far.

Fax Celestis

2014-03-04, 10:32 AM

What is GSL?

The terrible license that they slapped on 4e, which basically said, "We own everything you publish."

SpawnOfMorbo

2014-03-04, 10:34 AM

The terrible license that they slapped on 4e, which basically said, "We own everything you publish."

And what stopped Paizo and many other 3rd party companies from supporting 4e. When the GSL came out Paizo made a 180 on their stance to support 4e.

It really really hurt wotc and I hope they learned from it.