Will Elan be the one to redeem Miko? [SPOILER]

[Charles Phipps]

He's the only OOTS member who knows about feelings.

I think it'd be awesome for them to meet and talk a bit.

He also is the only one who believes in redemption.

[Professor Tanhauser]

Elan's already "redeeming" Halley.

Oh, waitaminute, you DIDN'T mean "redeeming" as a euphanism for....er....

Never kind then.

[Charles Phipps]

Elan's already "redeeming" Halley.

Oh, waitaminute, you DIDN'T mean "redeeming" as a euphanism for....er....

Never kind then.

Romance isn't out of the question.

I mean Haley has her latent side and they might be a couple capable of swinging.

:smallredface:

[MReav]

I think that's a job for... JULIO SCOUNDREL!

[zachol]

This would indeed be interesting; I could see a frustrated and tired Miko sitting down somewhere and getting into a conversation with Elan.

[Setra]

I think that's a job for... JULIO SCOUNDREL SETRA!
There, fixed.

[GrauGeist]

If anyone redeems Miko, it will be Durkon.

Because he's actually Good *AND* Lawful.

[MReav]

There, fixed.

Stop doing that! :smalltongue:

[Alysar]

This would indeed be interesting; I could see a frustrated and tired Miko sitting down somewhere and getting into a conversation with Elan.

That is something I would love to see happen. I'm glad Rich doesn't read the forums or else he might see that and it might never happen.

[Zael Zuran]

Miko needs to redeem Miko. If a simple kind gesture can turn Miko back to the light so easily, then it will be just as easy for her to fall again when she is given a cruel one.

Since this is fiction, if she sincerely tries, she may succeed.

But it would be just as likely for her to genuinely redeem herself, and die alone, comfortable in having made peace with her gods, without anyone else ever having known, and her name being maligned until the end of time.

A depressingly appropriate redemption for a pride driven fall; fading into obscurity, only remembered (if at all) as a bogeyman to scare small children.

[Setra]

Stop doing that! :smalltongue:

Aww come on, I could 'redeem' her. It would be fun! :smallbiggrin: :smalltongue:

[Demented]

I'd be amused to see Belkar redeem her. In #409. Just to save his own skin.

:belkar: Wait! Stop, Miko! Think what you're doing!

He calms Miko down, convinces her she's wrong, turns her entire perspective around, then just when she looks like she's ready to atone and make up for everything she's done, STAB, Roy arrives on the scene and all of Miko's progress is well and truly undone.

:roy: Thanks Belkar.
:belkar: No problem, Roy!


Nah, that's just mean.

[That Lanky Bugger]

I could see Elan managing it, but I think he believes Miko to be "bad" and "mean", while Miko currently sees him as a creature serving Evil. If anything's gonna happen, it's not for a long while. Maybe after Miko calms down some.

[Talya]

If Miko gets redeemed, I'll eat a bag of dice.

[Timespike]

I must confess, if Miko HAS to be redeemed, it's probably best if Elan or Durkon is the catalyst for it. Durkon and Elan are both quite noticeably good, and both are also fairly kindhearted.

That said, I really hope someone puts the walking natural disaster that is Miko down HARD before she gets near either of them, because otherwise she's likely to kill one of them. I don't want Durkon going home just yet.

[TinSoldier]

If anyone redeems Miko, it will be Durkon.

Because he's actually Good *AND* Lawful.My thoughts too.


Miko needs to redeem Miko. If a simple kind gesture can turn Miko back to the light so easily, then it will be just as easy for her to fall again when she is given a cruel one.

Since this is fiction, if she sincerely tries, she may succeed.

But it would be just as likely for her to genuinely redeem herself, and die alone, comfortable in having made peace with her gods, without anyone else ever having known, and her name being maligned until the end of time.

A depressingly appropriate redemption for a pride driven fall; fading into obscurity, only remembered (if at all) as a bogeyman to scare small children.Wow. Nice post!

Well, except for that last bit...

[Yellow]

Hm.

I guess Banjo would probably be pretty lenient with his paladins, yeah. If he's anything like Elan, I mean. All she has to do is be too scary for him to deny her, and she can do whatever.

Miko, paladin of Banjo. KICKIN' RAD

[Tilian]

I really want to see Miko redeemed, but I also want the journey to be hard as hell on her(not out of spite, but for the sake of drama and balance). If a member of the OotS had to have a major role in that process though, I can't help but want it to be Roy, although Durkon(and to a lesser degree Elan) seem to be the more logical choices.

Yeah, it's kind of off-the-wall, but think of the potential. Instead of taking the route of having Roy get involved with her redemption due to still having feelings for her(I'm in the camp that believes he doesn't have any real romantic leanings towards her at all, from the gender-switch incident to present), it could result from being forced by circumstance(either during the defense of the city, which is probably too soon, or because of some other situation they can both be thrust into that forces them to have to deal with each other) or much further down the line when they're able to confront one another without breaking into combat.

The main reason Roy seems to be the best fit to me is that, besides being Lawful Good and being the member of the Order she resents the most, he's also severely flawed while being able to cope with that very fact(at least much moreso than Miko). It just seems to me that he could give Miko a much healthier perspective on life. They both had paths forced on them during their childhood, but Roy was able to choose his own path. Miko never even considered any other option IIRC. Perhaps Roy could show her it IS possible to be an imperfect person and actually able to live and still serve the ideals of Lawful Good.

And then some actual romantic feelings for her might stir up in Roy....(Me, ship? Never.)

[Bluntpencil2001]

Elan may play a part in it, because he knows his dramatics! A good person fallen from grace has to redeem themselves at the most dramatic of moments. It's the rules!

[Tilian]

Elan may play a part in it, because he knows his dramatics! A good person fallen from grace has to redeem themselves at the most dramatic of moments. It's the rules!

I actually think you just nailed the most likely scenario to actually occur.:smallwink:

[Millennium]

Not-Nale nail Nale, then nail Haley, then nail Miko?

[Hai-pe-neki]

Quote for Miko as first Banjo's Paladin!

She just need to smiles one time, after she will never stop...

[toysailor]

Can't really see that happening. She probably thinks of him as a fool, not someone qualified in "lawful good" ethics and morality.

[the_tick_rules]

Elan, no way.

[elliott20]

let's not forget that Elan umm... DOESN'T EVEN LIKE MIKO!

Why the hell would he want to help somebody who has repeatedly treated him and his friends like crap and even go as far as to try to kill his friends?

If anybody from the OOTS is going to do it, it's going to be Durkon because he's the only one I can think of whose character could possibly muster up an inkling of sympathy for her.

[TreesOfDeath]

Elan's simplicty might help snap Miko back to reality (lol "Funny I rember something about Assassins" or whatever it was), but I think Miko's too far gone for ANYONE.
And Durkon would be more likely, but frankly we have a better chance of Windstride and Miko making out

[Mawhrin Skel]

Why the hell would he want to help somebody who has repeatedly treated him and his friends like crap and even go as far as to try to kill his friends?
He helped Nale when he was about to fall into the 2.0 monster pit in the dungeon. He did so because he is the Good Twin, not the Neutral Twin, and that means being merciful.

Durkon would still be the more likely person to redeem Miko IMO.

[atteSmythe]

Miko won't be redeemed until she's struck down and comes back as some groovy undead. Then OotS can sidequest to set her spirit to rest.

Naaaahh....

[elliott20]

"groovy undead"...

*imagines Miko with bell-bottoms, a fro, blingbling, and supa funk-eh style*

nonononono, bad elliott...

[Indon]

Redeemed?

IMO, Miko has 'Blackguard' or some equivalent class written all over her. She'll be trading out her pally levels within the week.

[Lial Swiftlight]

Is it wrong that part of me wants to see Sabine "redeem" Miko?

[Krellen]

Yes. You are a bad person, and should go take a cold shower.

[Xian]

There are two ways the PCs would be involved that I can see.
Durkon is responsible for her redemption
AND/OR
Belkar is responsible for her death (remember his fortune)

Assuming she's redeemed, I doubt it'll be via a simple Atonement spell. Rather, I could see Rich drawing inspiration from a module I'd read called something like "The Narrow Path", much like how he drew from The Temple of Elemental Evil for the very first story arc, and having a "side quest" to gain her paladinhood back.

[krossbow]

He'll redeem miko; along with Haley and sabine... at the same time.


In the temple of jello ooze.
________
Montana dispensaries (http://montana.dispensaries.org/)

[Alysar]

He'll redeem miko; along with Haley and sabine... at the same time.


In the temple of jello ooze.


Don't forget V and Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion

[mikeejimbo]

As people have said, Miko and Elan don't like each other much right now.

But what if they didn't realize they were talking to each other? What if, for some reason, Elan was in a sort of confessional booth and listening to Miko, and they both worked it out, only to find out later who they were talking to.

[Shattersnap]

I vote no. Why? Because Miko will not be redeemed, she will die cold, sad, and alone in the wilderness as is fitting of one such as herself. She will die from a lightning strike, and then she will be eaten by a large assortment of bears, wolves, and llamas. So she passes, forever into memory. A truly happy ending.

[Omellette]

Is it wrong that part of me wants to see Sabine "redeem" Miko?

I have no idea what you mean whatsoever. I think this requires detailed explanations. WIth diagrams. Maybe a video or two (dozen).

:smallbiggrin: :smallwink: :smallamused:

[Vadjastaria]

We need undead blackguard Miko. *pleeese*

[krossbow]

As people have said, Miko and Elan don't like each other much right now.

But what if they didn't realize they were talking to each other? What if, for some reason, Elan was in a sort of confessional booth and listening to Miko, and they both worked it out, only to find out later who they were talking to.



wait... Elan's catholic now?



banjo will kill many this day!

[Green Bean]

groovy undead.

Did someone say groovy?

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h87/osiris32/mikohippie.png

:miko:- Check out my hand, man. You can see right through it.

[atteSmythe]

Haha! That's awesome!

[Alysar]

Did someone say groovy?

http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h87/osiris32/mikohippie.png



Zombie Hippy Chick!

Coolest. AV. EVAR.

[Finwe]

Redeemed?

IMO, Miko has 'Blackguard' or some equivalent class written all over her. She'll be trading out her pally levels within the week.


No, her dedication to good is far too strong for her to willfully turn to Evil. She might do evil acts in the name of good, but I highly doubt that she will ever truly embrace evil, which would be required for her to become a blackguard.

[Luvlein]

Ah, this will change, and fast. Recently, she has been turning on anyone who had "betrayed" her. The twelve gods will be next on her hit list.

[Leonson]

Miko, Blackguard of the Tangle!

[felinoel]

I could see Elan managing it, but I think he believes Miko to be "bad" and "mean", while Miko currently sees him as a creature serving Evil. If anything's gonna happen, it's not for a long while. Maybe after Miko calms down some.
miko calming down? is that even possible?


Ah, this will change, and fast. Recently, she has been turning on anyone who had "betrayed" her. The twelve gods will be next on her hit list.
isnt there a race like that? ummm vashar or something

[Tilian]

miko calming down? is that even possible?


Maybe, through a mix of tough love and compassion(like someone said, what she needs is a straightjacket and a hug).

Or until she hits a brick wall that leaves her vulnerable to outside influence, but that could work for good or ill.

[krossbow]

Maybe, through a mix of tough love and compassion(like someone said, what she needs is a straightjacket and a hug).





Only if the tough love is the same type applied to haley back at the inn :smalltongue:



Hey, It's what roy suggested in his taunts :smallwink:
________
Jeep commander (http://www.dodge-wiki.com/wiki/Jeep_Commander)

[Skippy the Dire]

Gee, we have Haley, Miko, and Sabine (by implication froj the Blackguard reference) in the same thread with serveal oblique references to Treasure Type O.

Must....shut...off....brain....

[Yzorth]

I don't think Thog is that great. He's definitely a more mediocre character.

[TinSoldier]

I don't think Thog is that great. He's definitely a more mediocre character.Isn't he more of a mediOGRE character?

[felinoel]

Isn't he more of a mediOGRE character?
ow, that actually HURT

[rymack]

Here's the thing, do we actually WANT miko to be redeemed? Seriously, I would not mind Roy whooping her a few more times first.

[TinSoldier]

Here's the thing, do we actually WANT miko to be redeemed? Seriously, I would not mind Roy whooping her a few more times first.Well, I would like to see her redeemed. However, I would like to see her whoop Roy a couple more times though.

[Tilian]

Here's the thing, do we actually WANT miko to be redeemed? Seriously, I would not mind Roy whooping her a few more times first.

I want to see her redeemed.

I'd like to see her have a really rough time of it though, in order to make the redemption that much more savory.

[rymack]

I don't know, she has seriously taken a leap off the deep end here, and doesn't look like she's coming back anytime soon. Maybe 80 or 90 strips from now, but at the moment, let her be a confused villain.

They're way more fun than paladins anyways.

[TinSoldier]

Hey, she was cool as a paladin and a confused antagonist. I liked her better that way than the crazy.

[rymack]

Well, if you read some of Rich's gaming articles, he mentions that he dislikes paladins when they force themselves to be the groups conscience, and obviously Miko is simply an extreme example of this.

So i figure he's gonna come down really, really hard on her. I just don't see redemtion coming anytime soon.

[TinSoldier]

Well, if you read some of Rich's gaming articles, he mentions that he dislikes paladins when they force themselves to be the groups conscience, and obviously Miko is simply an extreme example of this.

So i figure he's gonna come down really, really hard on her. I just don't see redemtion coming anytime soon.Oh, I know. I just disagree with him.

I think that he meant to make a paladin that conformed to his article (and many others agree with that) but I personally think that he failed to do so. To me, she became much more likable than the stereotype that he intended to produce.

I think that with her fall he tried to steer her back to that point, but again, for me, it was more jarring and seemed uncharacteristic to me.

Again, I have discussed with other forumites who swear they saw it coming all along so maybe it's just my own blindness.

[Tilian]

I don't really see Miko as just a stand-in for Rich's example of a "paladin done poorly", but as a character who shares many traits with that. Way too much work has gone into her for her to simply serve as an effigy for bad paladin players.

[rymack]

I wouldn't say its your own blindness, its just a reflection of the way you think about paladins. If you think evil will win because good is stupid, paladins seem to be a very, very negative thing. Likewise if you are a bit of an anarchist, paladins reflect the worst of control freaks. Since i have little love for paladins in general, Miko seemed like a very dislikable person.

However, if you are into the traditional hero type, defending the good and just, paladins are terrific, and it would be much easier to like Miko that way.

Plus she's hilarious.

[TinSoldier]

rymack, you are exactly right. And so is Tilian who posted right above you.

[rymack]

Besides, if anyone will redeem her, it'll be Roys dad's ghost. He seems like the right type to talk sense into anyone.

[TinSoldier]

Or Shojo's ghost. I think that would be poetic justice.

[fruityjanitor]

I wouldn't be surprised if the OP's prediction turns out right (and I would enjoy seeing it too).

It seems to me that Miko's main problem is she focuses too much on the letter of the law and ignores the feelings of others (or at least that is what started her down this path that led to her fall and basically going insane). Like the OP said, Elan is more in touch with his feelings than any other member of the Order so he would be most able to help in that area.

Although now that I've written it all out, it sounds like it might come across as kind of cheesy. Heh. Well, Rich is a pretty awesome storyteller so I'm sure if he has it planned, he can pull it off in a non-cheesy way.

[Tilian]

I'm pulling for Shojo's ghost and Roy having their hands in her redemption. It would kind of bring things full circle.

That and if Roy is involved with it all sorts of painful drama can ensue.

[rymack]

But here's the thing, aren't paladins supposed to go on some self-sacrafice quest to redeem themselves? can they really be "redeemed" by somebody else? She could just dissapear from the plot for awhile, then rejoin later on to save the party's bacon. we could even get a flashback of her little soul cleansing adventure.

Or she could continue to fall further, either way works for me.

[TinSoldier]

But here's the thing, aren't paladins supposed to go on some self-sacrafice quest to redeem themselves? can they really be "redeemed" by somebody else? She could just dissapear from the plot for awhile, then rejoin later on to save the party's bacon. we could even get a flashback of her little soul cleansing adventure.

Or she could continue to fall further, either way works for me.Well, yes. She should have to go on some kind of quest to prove herself worthy of redemption.

I think the point is that Elan (or more likely, Durkon) would be the one to convince her that she was wrong in the first place. After all, admitting that you have a problem is the first step... only eleven more steps to go :smallbiggrin: !

[Dorizzit]

Well, this thread certainly appears to be a moot point now. However, who knows what the future could hold? In the famous words of Belkar Bitterleaf, the sky's the limit, ears, the sky's the limit.

[Regneva]

I'm glad Rich doesn't read the forums


I believe he DOES read the forums

[Capt'n Ironbrow]

Eh... Elan clearly isn't the one to redeem Miko. First of all he's a Bard, a lawless promiscuous scoundrel in de eyes of someone so upright as Miko (not to mention that he's with the Order of the Stick "who screw up everything in name of the dark powers"). how could he possibly redeem her if she kills him? Which she would surely attempt to do, however friendly and naïve Elan might be.

:miko: "Feelings? feelings? Feelings are a distraction made by the gods of evil and chaos to mislead you and 'cause you to stray from the righteous path of the twelve gods! You want to talk about feelings? you're evil! die! slash slash slash!"

Face it, if Miko returns, she will use the OotS as a scapegoat for almost everything that happens (to anyone and in any place at any time) and hunt them down to the last person if she can... yeah, she's THAT mad...

actually, she is not that different from Belkar: "I have deep-seated emotional problems! die! die!"

[Kreistor]

People might want to check the original posting date on this thread. January this year, and it was dead in mid-Feb. It was speculation and now that Miko is dead, irrelevant.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

People might want to check the original posting date on this thread. January this year, and it was dead in mid-Feb. It was speculation and now that Miko is dead, irrelevant.

Speculation? Yes. Irrelevant? Um... No.

We all "know" Roy will be coming back, what makes you think Miko can't or won't come back as well? Rich himself says Miko will be around until the end of the story.

The question is "how?" Miko the Blackguard isn't going to happen, Miko the Death Knight isn't going to happen, and I'm not sure when or how Miko's body will be found, but there are several spells that that could do the trick. Finding someone capable of casting the spell is another matter, since Redcloak just pwned the High Priest of the 12 Gods.

Miko was offered a token of redemption by Lord Soon. I think if she ever listened to ONE being in her life, it was Lord Soon. I think she'll take him up on his advice. If she can find her own way back to the world.

[Kreistor]

what makes you think Miko can't or won't come back as well?

Her death had finality. Perhaps the Giant once intended Miko to be something else, but it seems to me that he changed his mind. Her domination of this forum is more than proof enough that Miko had exceeded the OotS itself, not due to popularity, but due to controversy. It gave the appearance that the strip was about Miko, not Roy, Belkar, Haley, Elan, Durkon, and V.

There is no one with interest in bringing her back anymore. Hinjo won't bring back the murderer of his uncle. The OotS would celebrate her death (even Belkar, who would now know he is destined to be the cause of Roy or V's death). Team Evil has no interest in her. She put off the LG. The Sapphire Guard would have no use for someone that betrayed them so absolutely.

Soon has no power, and no seeming interest in her continuance. Soon did not give her a chance at redemption, he told her some are not capable of it, and her lack of acceptance of guilt in the cause of her own Fall was just a statement of fact, not a suggestion that Miko could change to gain that redemption. Even if she found a way to return, her death commentary seems to accept her end, which suggets she would not come back given the option.

Miko is gone, and her end was final.

[Alfryd]

Her death had finality.
IN Paladin blues, Rich states that Miko will be popping up at intervals throughout the story, which, one suspects, strongly implies she ain't out for the count just yet.

[Morty]

Then she'll probably come out as a ghost or undead. This, or Giant changed his mind(unlikely). I mean, noone has any interest in ressurecting her.

[NerfTW]

Why on Earth was a five month old thread necroed just to post that it was a "moot point"?

[Daimbert]

Then she'll probably come out as a ghost or undead. This, or Giant changed his mind(unlikely). I mean, noone has any interest in ressurecting her.

That we know of.

Dun Dun DUNNNNNN! :elan:

[dakiwiboid]

:smallfurious: Thread necromancers are vile, pernicious pests!

[David Argall]

Speculation? Yes. Irrelevant? Um... No.

We all "know" Roy will be coming back, what makes you think Miko can't or won't come back as well?

As said, Miko's death scene was a death scene, not a scene where she merely got killed. We have closure, a final evaluation of her life and efforts, an assumption it is done. With Roy, we just have a dead body.

We also have a difference in roles. Miko amazingly dominated the stage, but she was still just an NPC, a 2nd banana. As much as she added to the story, she was an addition. Roy is the story. The rest of the party gets a whole lot of stage time, but they are still just following Roy. Dumping the central character has been done, but not at all often, and not under these sort of circumstances. Roy's death is just a bump on the road. Miko's is a full stop.

Now there are all sorts of way she could come back 1. Sabine has feelings, some of which she won't confess to, for Miko and gets her raised, possibly as some sort of undead if you like that idea, with the idea Miko will be her sex toy. Miko of course has different ideas, more along the line of flayed fiend. Faced with the alternatives of losing Miko and getting sliced and diced on a daily basis, Sabine manages to con Miko into thinking Sabine is trying to reform and needs a guardian angel, and that Miko qualifies for the job. So the two stay together, with interesting results since their views on most everything are so different... or 2. Miko replaces Roy. Miko is raised and put in charge of the OOTS, along with a mark of justice that forbids her from killing any of them. So now we have one very short tempered nursemaid in charge of 5 hyperactive brats. Could be a lot of fun. 3... , but the text as written says Miko is over and done with. That may be a mistake on the writer's part, but it seems pretty final.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

As said, Miko's death scene was a death scene, not a scene where she merely got killed. We have closure, a final evaluation of her life and efforts, an assumption it is done. With Roy, we just have a dead body.

We also have a difference in roles. Miko amazingly dominated the stage, but she was still just an NPC, a 2nd banana. As much as she added to the story, she was an addition. Roy is the story. The rest of the party gets a whole lot of stage time, but they are still just following Roy. Dumping the central character has been done, but not at all often, and not under these sort of circumstances. Roy's death is just a bump on the road. Miko's is a full stop.

Now there are all sorts of way she could come back 1. Sabine has feelings, some of which she won't confess to, for Miko and gets her raised, possibly as some sort of undead if you like that idea, with the idea Miko will be her sex toy. Miko of course has different ideas, more along the line of flayed fiend. Faced with the alternatives of losing Miko and getting sliced and diced on a daily basis, Sabine manages to con Miko into thinking Sabine is trying to reform and needs a guardian angel, and that Miko qualifies for the job. So the two stay together, with interesting results since their views on most everything are so different... or 2. Miko replaces Roy. Miko is raised and put in charge of the OOTS, along with a mark of justice that forbids her from killing any of them. So now we have one very short tempered nursemaid in charge of 5 hyperactive brats. Could be a lot of fun. 3... , but the text as written says Miko is over and done with. That may be a mistake on the writer's part, but it seems pretty final.

I keep thinking about Soon's final words to Miko, before he told her that Windstriker would visit her as much as possible:

Soon: "Perhaps, of you had more time... But then again, perhaps not. Redemption is a rare and special thing, after all. It is not for everyone."

For once in her life, Miko listened to someone who was not Miko. I'd be willing to bet if given that chance, she would try to change herself. She might not succeed, but she would try.

[Tolkien_Freak]

OMG. Thread Necromancy.

[Kreistor]

Miko listened to someone who was not Miko

Listened? We have no evidence of that. She understood that she was denied eternity in the Celestial Realms, but that is different from understanding that to seek redemption she needed to recognize her faults. If you mean listened as in "She was cut in half and forced to hear his words enter her ears because she couldn't stand up and cut Soon in half for his presumption", then yes, that she did actually have the words enter her ears. But "listened"? We'll never know.

There is no purpose in ever bringing Miko back. There's no apprentice she can Blue Jedi Ghost for, and no one who would even respect what she had to say if she tried it with anyone else in the world. She lost it all, in the end, including respect.

[Surfing HalfOrc]

There is no purpose in ever bringing Miko back.

No purpose that YOU can think of. In fact, no purpose that "I" can think of either. Other than my own personal beliefs in Redemption.

But no purpose that the Giant can think of?

Miko was created to be controversial. To get people to think about other people, and maybe even themselves. To get conversations started about right and wrong, good and evil, law and chaos.

If Shojo had sent Hinjo to fetch the OotS, would the story have been anywhere near as interesting?