Hitting with Manyshot

[Gale]

I'm playing a Swift Hunter and because I've been forbidden from taking levels in Cleric I've simply been moving every turn and using Greater Manyshot to get my damage. Unfortunately, the penalty is making the shots miss far too often. I went an entire encounter and only successfully landed one attack. I'm wondering if there is any way to help negate he penalty and ensure my attacks actually hit.

[Nihilarian]

You can snag a bunch of Raptor Arrows (MIC) and slap Brilliant Energy on them. They won't break, so you can us them all day.

[Karnith]

Wraithstrike would work.
Actually, since Wraithstrike only works on melee attacks, it wouldn't.

[Nihilarian]

Actually, since Wraithstrike only works on melee attacks, it wouldn't.whoops. Was going off memory.

At least the brilliant energy works.

[Gale]

I can't use Raptor Arrows. (The DM forbid them because of fluff reasons.)

[StreamOfTheSky]

The trick to hitting with Manyshot is not using manyshot. It and the greater version are traps. I'd retain the Greater version if allowed; and the only reasons to keep the regular version is 1) I'm guessing you got it as a ranger feat anyway and 2) It is required for Improved Rapid Shot, a not-terrible feat (though hardly high on your priorities list).

If the DM banned dipping cleric (wtf?) find other ways to move 10 ft and full attack. Anklets of Translocation and (combined w/ your actual 5 ft step) Boots of Sidestepping, both from Magic Item Compendium, are the least expensive means, I think. Get multiple pairs, switch between combats.
At extremely high levels, you can get the Press the Advantage stance from Tome of Battle. Without a martial adept class dip, it'll cost ~ 3 feats to obtain and won't be available until your 18th level feat. But once you have that, you can just 10' step all day long.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

I can't use Raptor Arrows. (The DM forbid them because of fluff reasons.)

Because fluff can't be re-fluffed or else the game will break down and collapse into itself...

I hate DM/Players who use fluff as a rational to ban things. :smallmad:

[claypigeons]

More Dexterity.
Better (more magic-y) bow.
More BAB.

What level are you? At the highest number of arrows, manyshot gives a -8 modifier. By then, a dedicated archer should have (16base+5book+6item+4-5level) in the neighborhood of 30+ dex. Factor in a good bow (with Greater magic weapon) and you shouldn't have a problem hitting.

[Gale]

I abruptly got a +4 Longbow with Brilliant Energy on it just handed to me by my DM.
Except you know--it's cursed and I can't drop it.

[Irk]

I abruptly got a +4 Longbow with Brilliant Energy on it just handed to me by my DM.
Except you know--it's cursed and I can't drop it.
At least you'll likely hit now.

[MirddinEmris]

Quicksilver Boots and Skirmisher Boots will certainly help. First is a move as a swift action 2/day, second is gaining additional attack as a swift action at highest attack bonus 2 or 3 times per day (and a slight boost to damage).

[StreamOfTheSky]

At least you'll likely hit now.
Shame there's a bunch of common monsters for whom his light arrows will pass right through unscathed.


Quicksilver Boots and Skirmisher Boots will certainly help. First is a move as a swift action 2/day, second is gaining additional attack as a swift action at highest attack bonus 2 or 3 times per day (and a slight boost to damage).

Those are also good, but I'm pretty sure Anklets of Translocation and Boots of Sidestepping are cheaper per daily use.

[MirddinEmris]

Those are also good, but I'm pretty sure Anklets of Translocation and Boots of Sidestepping are cheaper per daily use.

Agreed, but i think by his level, he can have those three combined within one item without trouble.

Also i don't think that Manyshot+Greater is such a bad thing, i currently play a very simple swift hunter build (scout4/ranger8) and have no trouble hitting AC with greater manyshot. In fact, he can handle most of the monsters of CR 12 by himself (with the exception of Kolyarut and dragons).

[Zombimode]

I'm playing a Swift Hunter and because I've been forbidden from taking levels in Cleric I've simply been moving every turn and using Greater Manyshot to get my damage. Unfortunately, the penalty is making the shots miss far too often. I went an entire encounter and only successfully landed one attack. I'm wondering if there is any way to help negate he penalty and ensure my attacks actually hit.

You don't need to be a (cloistered) cleric to take Travel Devotion, you know. Sure its only once per day, but hey it's a start.

[Nagukuk]

I'm playing a Swift Hunter and because I've been forbidden from taking levels in Cleric I've simply been moving every turn and using Greater Manyshot to get my damage. Unfortunately, the penalty is making the shots miss far too often. I went an entire encounter and only successfully landed one attack. I'm wondering if there is any way to help negate he penalty and ensure my attacks actually hit.


Change your tactics until your to hit is better or enemy AC is lower.

If many shot with juicy bonus damage misses -as you have seen- it does 0 damage.

If you move and shoot one arrow it may hit and do your bonus damage.

If you don't move and rapid shot you may do more damage than the single arrow plus the bonus damage.

It sucks that you can not do your "skirmish thing" but not every tactic always works well. Skirmish has always been a difficult tactic to pull off.

the above mentioned magic stuff may help, also speaking with your DM about the issues your character is having MIGHT help... but, the cursed bow thing has me slightly worried on that end.

[Big Fau]

The Law and Chaos Devotion feats can dramatically improve your accuracy, and Shape Soulmeld (Sighting Gloves or Chaos Incarnate Avatar) can give it another boost. However feat slots are expensive prices to pay for mere accuracy buffs, and you may be better suited to giving an ally a Wand of Blessed Aim among other spells. Knowledge Devotion can do similar to Law/Chaos, but adds to your damage rolls too.

Travel Devotion exists, and there are other options, but given that your DM barred you from dipping Cleric and using Raptor Arrows you may be hard-pressed to get any of the Devotion feats approved.

An option for getting rid of the bow's curse is to take the Ancestral Relic feat and offer it as one of your sacrifices, then you can customize your bow with up to +7 enhancement options.

[holywhippet]

Have you looked through the archery handbook: http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=642.0 ? It sounds like the splitting enchantment would help your odds a bit.

[ace rooster]

Shame there's a bunch of common monsters for whom his light arrows will pass right through unscathed.


and a huge lot more that rely on natural armor that your bow doesn't ignore. I have seen an enemy weapon turned into a brilliant energy weapon as a debuff. It is campaign specific how much of a boon or curse it is.

[holywhippet]

I abruptly got a +4 Longbow with Brilliant Energy on it just handed to me by my DM.
Except you know--it's cursed and I can't drop it.

From the SRD:

This property can only be applied to melee weapons, thrown weapons, and ammunition.

It's not just cursed, it's illegal by RAW from what I can see.

[TuggyNE]

From the SRD:


It's not just cursed, it's illegal by RAW from what I can see.

The curse is the brilliant energy property. :smalltongue:

[Theomniadept]

Because fluff can't be re-fluffed or else the game will break down and collapse into itself...

I hate DM/Players who use fluff as a rational to ban things. :smallmad:
I know that feeling. My DM just banned my level 4 Planar Substitution level for Paladin. Now, he's not touching the Wizard, Favored Soul, Sorcerer, Dread Necromancer, Rogue, or Ranger, but apparently Smite Evil Outsider is OP. Tell the whole forum, quick, they've overlooked the next Pun Pun.

[Amphetryon]

It appears you're in "talk to your DM" territory. Between banning specific Classes (just for you, or for everyone?), restricting your available equipment options, and handing you tailor-made Cursed items, it sounds - from your responses - like the game is becoming unfun for you.

[Fax Celestis]

How does your DM feel about homebrew?

[Spore]

Your DM is odd. Not terrible odd, not awesome odd. Just odd.

[Eldariel]

Well, ways to buff up your To Hit:
- Just picking up some Devotion-feats (Law Devotion for instance is a massive buff)
- Education + Knowledge Devotion
- Solitary Hunter [Dragon Magazine #347]: ACF that trades your Animal Companion for To Hit bonus from Favored Enemy
- Ways to strike as invisible/undetected: Blinking from Ring of Blinking, some source of Greater Invisibility, perhaps your own casting with Sword of the Arcane Order + Mystic Ranger, e.g. the spell combo Snowsight + Obscuring Snow, various forms of Hide in Plain Sight (see Lists of Stuff (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=crk0gk481qgrb550rl1b8od1c2&topic=1412.0) though Dark creature template through Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis is worth noting as easily accessible), etc. Denying enemy Dex to AC and gaining +2 to attacks helps a lot.
- Greater Magic Weapon (duh)
- Polymorph Any Object (purchase castings, pick a permanently accessible form with massive Dex, double casting if necessary, and stack your items on top of it)
- You could dip 3 levels of Pious Templar [CDiv]; it'll cost you Swift Hunter levels which of course sucks, but would give you access to Ranged Weapon Mastery for a relatively affordable price (which is a reasonable +2 to hit).
- Some Soulmelds could help if you feel inclined to invest few feats in that general direction.


There are other options too, of course; this is just a sort of a "off the top of my head"-list. Basically tho, yeah, pump your attack roll as much as possible and it should be okay. You could also find auxillary ways to move 10' (such as 10' steps, especially with Press the Advantage to take 20' steps for Improved Skirmish) and still full attack consistently, but those tend to come a bit high up.

[Xerlith]

Which level are you? Just take 3 levels in Knight of The Raven (if he'll allow you to refluff it somehow) and take the Travel Devotion feat anyway. Or gain TU from any other source. It's, seriously, easy.

[Curmudgeon]

If the DM banned dipping cleric (wtf?) find other ways to move 10 ft and full attack. Anklets of Translocation and (combined w/ your actual 5 ft step) Boots of Sidestepping, both from Magic Item Compendium, are the least expensive means, I think.
An Anklet of Translocation won't do anything to help a Scout. The Scout has to move, not just relocate. Even being moved (by a mount) doesn't qualify to enable skirmish.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

An Anklet of Translocation won't do anything to help a Scout. The Scout has to move, not just relocate. Even being moved (by a mount) doesn't qualify to enable skirmish.

Is there an official word on this?

Teleporting is a movement after all. Does jumping work?

[Diarmuid]

Jumping is part of movement.

Teleportation is not "movement" per the game mechanics.

[SpawnOfMorbo]

Jumping is part of movement.

Teleportation is not "movement" per the game mechanics.

Again, I would like to see official word on this. I don't play this type of character but I'm really interested in learning more about it.

[Fax Celestis]

Again, I would like to see official word on this. I don't play this type of character but I'm really interested in learning more about it.

Check the FAQ.

[Big Fau]

Is there an official word on this?

Teleporting is a movement after all. Does jumping work?

Errata nixed the mount, and a FAQ dealt with teleportation.

[Amphetryon]

Errata nixed the mount, and a FAQ dealt with teleportation.And that should segue nicely into the all-but-inevitable "FAQ is not RAW!" debate. :smallwink:

[StreamOfTheSky]

And that should segue nicely into the all-but-inevitable "FAQ is not RAW!" debate. :smallwink:

Well, it's not. And teleporting is still moving. Especially after the errata made it all about getting 10+ ft away from your point of origin, rather than the movement itself being what's important. (zomg, the "skirmish shuffle" is teh borkenz!)

As for being bull rushed...you have to move during your turn. Getting someone to bull rush you during your turn is tough to pull off. If you can...it should trigger skirmish, too.

[Fax Celestis]

Well, it's not. And teleporting is still moving. Especially after the errata made it all about getting 10+ ft away from your point of origin, rather than the movement itself being what's important. (zomg, the "skirmish shuffle" is teh borkenz!)

As for being bull rushed...you have to move during your turn. Getting someone to bull rush you during your turn is tough to pull off. If you can...it should trigger skirmish, too.

Agreed, especially if bull-rushing someone through a legion of sentinels equals ALL THE AOOS.

[Nihilarian]

I'd love it if you could use Fling Ally to help a buddy trigger skirmish.

[Zweisteine]

From the list of stuff (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=2546.0):

Turn/rebuke Undead

grants turn/rebuke undead - anything that grants turning generally stacks
Cleric 1
Paladin 4
Blackguard 3, ecl, command or rebuke only
Sacred Exorcist 1, ecl 8, Complete Divine, turn only
Ur-priest 2, ecl 7, Complete Divine, rebuke only
Divine Mind 4, Complete Divine, class variant (here)
Dread Necromancer 1, base class, Heroes of Horror, rebuke only
Death Delver 1, ecl 6, Heroes of Horror, rebuke only
Chameleon 3, ecl 8, Races of Destiny, see text
Master of Radiance 1, ecl 6, Libris Mortin, turn only - unclear whether you gain turning or if it only stacks
Tenebrous, vestige, ecl 7, Tome of Magic, unlimited use but see text
Knight of the Raven 3, ecl 7, Expedition to Castle Ravenloft
Apostle of Peace 1, ecl 8, Book of Exalted Deeds
Soldier of Light 1, ecl 6, Deities and Demigods
Deadgrim 1, ecl 6, Magic of Eberron - unclear whethero you gain turning or if it only stacks

Take a level of dread necromancer or death delver (use your party or an item of vigor to simulate a near-death experience). Then grab nightsticks!


You always want a splitting weapon if you are an archer.
If you want to drop the cursed bow, just buy a casting of remove curse. It should be cheap by the level you have +8 weapon.

[Gale]

We already tried casting Remove Curse; it doesn't work. Knowing the DM we're going to have to go on some absurd quest before I can actually drop it. I was legitimately tempted to have someone cut my hand off but I couldn't think of a way to get my hand back and I can't shoot a bow without it.
There is of course the regenerate spell, but I asked a wizard in town if he could cast it and he said unable to. I asked if he knew anyone who could and he also said no. I don't think there is a single person in this world who can cast Regenerate for me. I feel like even if I did end up cutting my arm off the bow would magically end up in my other hand instead.
It's a real bummer. I was planning on putting Splitting on my bow once I got enough money but since this cursed thing is a +4 I can't.

[Curmudgeon]

And teleporting is still moving.
Not according to the game's definition.
Teleportation is instantaneous travel through the Astral Plane. Instantaneous travel cannot involve movement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_%28physics%29): the change in position relative to time.

[Hyena]

Your DM sounds terrible.
- Oh, so you want to hit somebody in combat? WISH GRANTED! Now you'll hit all the time! And you can't drop your weapon! Wait, on the other hand... Yes, half of the time you don't do damage! Yeah!

[Gale]

For some reason I didn't realize Travel Devotion was a regular feat. I always thought you had to trade the domain for it. I wish I had realized that earlier and didn't waste two feats on Manyshot and Greater Manyshot.
Oh well, at least I'll be able to hit reliably now. Unless of course my DM forbids me from taking levels in Death Delver because "it doesn't make sense" or some other absurd reason.

[broodax]

Instantaneous travel cannot involve movement (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motion_%28physics%29): the change in position relative to time.

This is false. I don't know about the game definition, but there is nothing about the definition of movement that requires time to elapse "during" some change in relative position. As long as an object is at position P1 at time T1 and a different position P2 at time T2, then it has moved. You have an awfully tough time describing velocity and momentum and things like that, but none of that is required in the rules of DnD, much less makes any sense.

Using scientific terminology here is really kind of awkward, and I'm a bit surprised that you've done so. But, if you do, you probably want to talk about something other than classical mechanics since what we're referring to is an object (ok, a character, since this is DnD...) teleporting, not an object gradually being acted on by a force, overcoming its inertia, increasing in velocity, etc. And in these fields, it's pretty normal to talk about things moving without describing some continuous path through space over continuous periods of time.