Is There Precedent?

[unseenmage]

DM permitted Custom Magic Item build. The math is done but don't know what level is appropriate for a player to have access to it.

The item is an extradimensional box that removes its contents from time.

Worked up two versions but am not happy with the price for either.
The straight Quintessence version is 63,000gp, which feels too low.

So made another version based on Time Stop instead but it's way too expensive at 2,463,000gp
Looks like Sepia Snake Sigil (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sepiaSnakeSigil.htm) is more similar and closer in spell level. Not sure yet what the price difference is yet though. (Thanks WhatThePhysics)


So my question is, is there any precedent for an item that removes it's contents from the timestream? Any direction at all for what gp or level is appropriate would be appreciated.

[Glimbur]

It kind of depends on what you intend to do with it. If it's a magic refrigerator so you can have fresh steaks whenever, it should cost far less than that (call it 100 gp). If you're planning to layer short-duration spells onto an item (or a PC, or a familiar, or a construct, or...) and pull them out when needed, the cost gets a bit more complicated.

[unseenmage]

It kind of depends on what you intend to do with it. If it's a magic refrigerator so you can have fresh steaks whenever, it should cost far less than that (call it 100 gp). If you're planning to layer short-duration spells onto an item (or a PC, or a familiar, or a construct, or...) and pull them out when needed, the cost gets a bit more complicated.

All of the above. Not intended for cheese but it is supposed to be quite powerful.

For example, in the game right now my character was tasked with creating something to keep an Artifact safe.

A variation on this "technology" is also supposed to close potential thieves in a magically sealed vault as well.

[Realms of Chaos]

Well... what does removing something from the timestream really mean? If it just means that the object never ages/burns fuel, that effect is incredibly cheap (a glove of storing can suspend a lit torch in animation for only 10k).

If you want to protect it from divination effects as well (scrying can't lock onto temporal coordinates or whatever), just put in a sequester effect and the cost is still well under 60k (I think...).

If you want for an item to only exist for one moment in time and for only some sort of "key" to return it into the current time... that's probably not much more powerful than the glove of storing (15k tops)

Even if you want to make an item virtually indestructible, you can just base it on temporal stasis and keep it under 150k (again, I think).

If, on the other hand, you want the duration of ongoing effects that an effected item make to be frozen indefinitely (making them permanent), the item is pretty much too overpowered for any campaign and I don't think any price would ever be high enough.

"Removing an item from the timestream" isn't really a D&D game effect so it can only really be priced if you lay out precisely what you want that to mean.

[unseenmage]

"Removing an item from the timestream" isn't really a D&D game effect so it can only really be priced if you lay out precisely what you want that to mean.

It actually is a game effect as per Quintessence (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/quintessence.htm) in the EPH and the SRD.

- perfect preservation
- deprives creatures suspended in it of actions
- delays the expiration of ongoing effects until the subject of those effects is removed from the substance/box
- the box/substance stops line of effect, though Wish can still retrieve a creature from the substance. suspended object can still be retrieved with a rope or stick or something as well.

The extradimensional box/vault version is supposed to deactivate when opened. Just a pool of Quintessence doesn't have that feature.

[Qwertystop]

What about an item of continuous Time Hop? 30,000 gp, and arguably better than Quintessence because you can scoop or pour Quintessence. Clasp it on something and the thing disappears forever (until the item is destroyed).

Yeah, pricing guidelines get crazy sometimes.

[Pseudo_Nym]

You could base it on Time Hop, if Time Stop's too expensive. That might be even cheaper than the Quintessence route, though.

Personally, I'd arbitrarily rule it as costing an ounce of actual Quintessence (which might be hard to find), 100,000 gold pieces, and three days of non-stop chanting. You can do a lot with three days of chanting.

[Jormengand]

If you're a Sorcerer/Wizard, why not go with Sepia Snake Sigil (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sepiaSnakeSigil.htm)?

Because objects can't read. Also "It can be damaged by outside forces (and perhaps even killed), since the field provides no protection against physical injury."

Temporal Stasis (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/temporalStasis.htm) might work if you can convince the spell that an object is a creature.

[unseenmage]

If you're a Sorcerer/Wizard, why not go with Sepia Snake Sigil (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/sepiaSnakeSigil.htm)?

This is almost exactly what I was looking for. An offensive spell that removes a creature from time (or at least effectively so).

And it's still such a low level too! Fascinating.
Thanks.

[Jormengand]

This is almost exactly what I was looking for. An offensive spell that removes a creature from time (or at least effectively so).

And it's still such a low level too! Fascinating.
Thanks.

I should warn you that it still doesn't work, for the reasons given right above your post.

[unseenmage]

I should warn you that it still doesn't work, for the reasons given right above your post.

Well for the exact effects I want I still have Quintessence. And all that is required for Sepia Snake Sigil to work is to make the object a creature (Animate Objects) or just put the object in a to-be-affected creature's pocket.

Additionally Magic Items often get their effects from listed spells that do not do what the item does.

And all I was looking for was some precedent, some analogue that would help me gauge the power level of the idea. So I'm comparing the two, Sepia Snake Sigil with Quintessence and finding Sepia Snake Sigil to be the less expensive of the two. (It takes way way too many castings of Quintessence to envelope a whole creature.)

[Jormengand]

Well for the exact effects I want I still have Quintessence. And all that is required for Sepia Snake Sigil to work is to make the object a creature (Animate Objects) or just put the object in a to-be-affected creature's pocket.

Additionally Magic Items often get their effects from listed spells that do not do what the item does.

And all I was looking for was some precedent, some analogue that would help me gauge the power level of the idea. So I'm comparing the two, Sepia Snake Sigil with Quintessence and finding Sepia Snake Sigil to be the less expensive of the two. (It takes way way too many castings of Quintessence to envelope a whole creature.)

Yeah, but an SSS'd creature is not in any way immune to damage, and neither are their items. Temporal Stasis is far closer in both intended and actual effect to what you're looking for.

[unseenmage]

Yeah, but an SSS'd creature is not in any way immune to damage, and neither are their items. Temporal Stasis is far closer in both intended and actual effect to what you're looking for.

Not sure where you're getting the idea that the time-locked creature/object is supposed to be immune to damage from. I'm not seeing where I made that request and I'm not seeing where Quintessence (whose effects I'm trying to find an analogue to) does this...?

Yes I will look into Temporal Stasis as well. But Sepia Snake Sigil would seem to still be the closer effect to Quintessence by spell level and limited usefulness.

The goal is to determine if the removed-from-time effect in an item should only be accessible to epic characters or if there is precedent for it being available to lower level (read as playable) characters.

[Jormengand]

Not sure where you're getting the idea that the time-locked creature/object is supposed to be immune to damage from. I'm not seeing where I made that request and I'm not seeing where Quintessence (whose effects I'm trying to find an analogue to) does this...?

Yes I will look into Temporal Stasis as well. But Sepia Snake Sigil would seem to still be the closer effect to Quintessence by spell level and limited usefulness.

The goal is to determine if the removed-from-time effect in an item should only be accessible to epic characters or if there is precedent for it being available to lower level (read as playable) characters.
I apologise for assuming that "Remove an object from time" meant "Remove an object from time." I won't bother you any further.

[unseenmage]

I apologise for assuming that "Remove an object from time" meant "Remove an object from time." I won't bother you any further.

Not a bother, you just confused me is all.
Honestly I appreciate the critique. For utility the Quintessence/Sepia Snake Sigil version is probably what I'm after.
For the DM's plot (isolating an Artifact) the Temporal Stasis/Time Stop version is likely more the way to go.

I havn't made my mind up either way yet. Might even use both. There are a couple of months in-game before the character needs to have the task done. And Custom spells are an option.

I'm mostly researching for now and your comments, as well as everyone elses, really do help.

[Realms of Chaos]

Not sure where you're getting the idea that the time-locked creature/object is supposed to be immune to damage from. I'm not seeing where I made that request and I'm not seeing where Quintessence (whose effects I'm trying to find an analogue to) does this...

Your first request that allowing something to "escape the timestream". While quintessence does do this with a specific list of effects, it isn't the only way in D&D that "escaping the timestream" can be envisioned.

Safe Time, an epic level spell, functions specifically by jutting you out of the timestream and does NONE of what quintessence does, instead granting immunity to damage. Just another example.

As the non-epic form of "freezing time" typically involves some degree of invincibility/protection (time stop doesn't let you harm others, unguent of timelessness aids saves, temporal stasis grants immunity to damage), it was also suggested.

As a more time-travelly definition of removing from the timestream would make an item completely inaccessible until it re-enters the timestream, time hop was suggested.

But, yeah, it is clear that you want not the conceptual effect of removal of time (which I thought from the OP that you were trying to imitate in one way through quintessence) but the specifical mechanical effect of quintessence itself, so I'm going to drop the issue.

Edit: And o course I was ninja'd, left looking like a bit of a jerk. Apologies about that. :smallsigh: