Help trying to gain sight.

[Bellberith]

I am trying to find a way to see sneaky characters.

Or atleast have a good chance to.

There is a rogue in the group that has a 30something hide/move silently mod and i need something that can locate him.

I can't find anything to increase my spot/listen (currently at 10 each) and true seeing does not work. He also has the darkstalker feat (i have scent....)

We are at level 7

[Zweisteine]

If you can pick up telepathy, Mindsight is the way to go.

Various spells can do this sort of thing.

Why do you need to find this rogue?

[Psyren]

Nothing beats touchsight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/touchsight.htm) except for total cover, not even mind blank, so that would be my suggestion if you can get it.

[Bellberith]

If you can pick up telepathy, Mindsight is the way to go.

Various spells can do this sort of thing.

Why do you need to find this rogue?

I don't NEED to. But currently he is running rampant with no counter. So i want to be able to stop him if he does anything stupid.... Which has been quite often so far.

[HunterOfJello]

How is he gaining a form of concealment or cover in order to avoid being visible in plain sight? No matter how high your hide and move silently checks are, if you can be seen in plain sight, then everyone can see you. D&D is not WoW.

Touchsight and Mindsight are the two best ways to beat darkstalker. Most methods at level 7 would be beatable by See Invisibility or True Seeing.

[Maginomicon]

Would Glitterdust work?

[eggynack]

How is he gaining a form of concealment or cover in order to avoid being visible in plain sight? No matter how high your hide and move silently checks are, if you can be seen in plain sight
I would assume some form of hide in plain sight, or a similar ability, though I may be mistaken.

[Bellberith]

How is he gaining a form of concealment or cover in order to avoid being visible in plain sight? No matter how high your hide and move silently checks are, if you can be seen in plain sight, then everyone can see you. D&D is not WoW.

Touchsight and Mindsight are the two best ways to beat darkstalker. Most methods at level 7 would be beatable by See Invisibility or True Seeing.

He has "hide in plain sight" granted by the dark creature template

[Psyren]

I would assume some form of hide in plain sight, or a similar ability, though I may be mistaken.

Given that rogues don't get that ability natively though, assuming it is rules fail is also a valid line of inquiry.

[Captnq]

+30 to spot is 90,000 gp.

There ya go.

EYES OF THE AVORAL +8 spot
HAWKEYE +5 spot
Alter Self into a humanoid race with racial bonus to spot.
IMPROVISATION Varible bonus
PRIMAL SENSES +5

Are you a wizard? Research a custom version of glibness.

Magic Item creation rules explain this very thing, it's not that hard.

[Bellberith]

Would Glitterdust work?

The problem is pinpointing his location, to be honest i would even be satisfied with knowing his rough location for a 50% miss chance.

And i would prefer it if it was something i can use anytime.

[Psyren]

The problem is pinpointing his location, to be honest i would even be satisfied with knowing his rough location for a 50% miss chance.

And i would prefer it if it was something i can use anytime.

You still haven't mentioned how he is vanishing to begin with. If you're looking right at him, unless he has some kind of hide-in-plain-sight ability, he can't hide at all no matter how high his modifier is.

[Bellberith]

You still haven't mentioned how he is vanishing to begin with. If you're looking right at him, unless he has some kind of hide-in-plain-sight ability, he can't hide at all no matter how high his modifier is.

i did mention. read up.


He has "hide in plain sight" granted by the dark creature template

[Psyren]

i did mention. read up.

Which one? :smalltongue:

(And yes, it does matter.)

[Drachasor]

Hmm, at 9th level there's a 5th level spell called Dragonsight. That gives you blindsense which would let you pinpoint his location. Spell Compendium, range of blindsense is 5ft/level, and it lasts for 1 hour/level.

If you had a bat familiar it could pinpoint the rogue if he was within 20ft.

[Tysis]

Couldn't a wizard use arcane sight to see the aura of the rogue's magic items and then cast black tentacles in his general area.

Or am I misunderstanding the rules of arcane sight?

[OldTrees1]

Nobody has mentioned the 3rd OP sense (Lifesense) yet? All it requires is being undead.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Use Daylight or similar to negate shadows, and he won't be able to hide.

Edit: The Dark Creature's version is actually one of the weaker ones, consider the following:
"Hide in Plain Sight (Ex): Use the Hide skill even while
being observed (except in natural daylight, the area of a
daylight spell, or a similar ettect)."

"You need cover or concealment in order to attempt a Hide check. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/skills/hide.htm)"
He can use the Hide skill while being observed, but it does not negate the requirement for cover or concealment to even make the attempt. Get Darkvision and Low-Light Vision and when he doesn't have cover relative to you, you'll automatically see him.

[Crake]

He has "hide in plain sight" granted by the dark creature template

The dark creature template still requires some kind of cover or concealment to use, you can't just use it out in the open. All it does is make it so you can still hide while being observed ie, someone knows you're there and can see you/is looking at you, you can kind of crouch behind a chair and disappear from their perception. It does not however grant you the ability to stand in the middle of an open room and just.. hide, for that you would need the shadowdancer hide in plain sight which specifically obviates the need for cover or concealment.

[Bellberith]

I can't use any of the spell/psionic options at the moment. Or the lifesense because i am not undead.

I am a Barghest Lv 7 from the savage species page 159. My only natural way to find him at the moment is scent which is negated by his ridiculous skill checks + darkstalker (which seems to be a pretty powerful feat)

[Curmudgeon]

That form of Hide in Plain Sight is completely shut down in daylight, so it's non-functional about half the time. Does the Rogue hole up all day, only coming out after dark?

[Bellberith]

That form of Hide in Plain Sight is completely shut down in daylight, so it's non-functional about half the time. Does the Rogue hole up all day, only coming out after dark?

Mostly, yes.

[Drachasor]

Probably the best solution for now is avoiding areas of natural concealment and keeping Continual Flame items around you. Have some extra ones so you can toss them around if needed (you can most likely gather them up again later). This is quite cheap.

Prepare Dancing Lights. You can cast this to cover a wider area if needed. He can't hide if there are no shadows.

Daylight is also an option and it has a nice duration (10 minutes/level). The above have ranges of 20ft of bright light from the source. Daylight has 60ft of bright light. The main disadvantage is that this is a 3rd level spell.

I think this is a good solution for now. With Invisibility and Fly you should be able to run if you had problems. At level 9 you can use Dragonsight for a more permanent solution.

Fun thing with dragonsight: Eversmoking Bottle. He can't see you, but you can locate his square. I recommend always going around with the Eversmoking bottle open and spoofing the College Humor Batman; "They'll never know I'm coming since they can't see me!". Insist on your perfect stealth even as you go around with a 100' of smoke surrounding you.

[Know(Nothing)]

Nobody has mentioned the 3rd OP sense (Lifesense) yet? All it requires is being undead.

Gonna have to echo this. Go necropolitan, get a stitched-flesh familiar-- whatever. You just flat-out see him(or at least figure out his square.)

[Darrin]

Try a scroll or skull talisman (Frostburn) of helping hand, or a Messenger Arrow (400 GP, Ghostwalk Web Enhancement). If he's within 100', it can pinpoint his square in 1 round. Then hit that square with Torch Bug Paste (25 GP, Complete Scoundrel). Spell-storing arrows or a thrown weapon + Glyph Seal (1000 GP, MIC) can be used to light him up with glitterdust, faerie fire, etc.

[Drachasor]

Anyhow, just curious, but why is it so important to locate this rogue?

[HammeredWharf]

Scry him. I take it he's familiar to your character and you could obtain some of his hair, giving him -15 to his will save.

[Bellberith]

Anyhow, just curious, but why is it so important to locate this rogue?

I want a reliable way to locate him at almost any time as a counter to him running around doing as he pleases. (and the fact he is stealing from everyone also furthers this)

[Know(Nothing)]

Is he really sleight-of-handing your items from you without you noticing until later? Cover your valuables in sovereign glue and only tell your DM. Now they're stuck to him. If they're affixed to you, now he's stuck to you. Punch him in his stupid face until he decides to stop being an irritating jerk. Make a scathing quip about "sticky fingers."

Also, if this is another PC and you're genuinely annoyed by this, just talk to him out-of-character and ask him to stop. If that doesn't work, bring it up to your DM. If that doesn't work, murder the hell out of the rogue, take your things back, and remark that, should you have a new member in your adventuring party soon, you surely hope he's not so foolish as to steal from you.

[JeminiZero]

I can't use any of the spell/psionic options at the moment.

Since touchsight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/touchsight.htm) is level 3, it is available as a Psionic Tattoo (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/psionicTattoos.htm) for 750 gp. And Tattoos can only be taken from you if you are unconscious or dead (or mind-controlled).

[Drachasor]

I want a reliable way to locate him at almost any time as a counter to him running around doing as he pleases. (and the fact he is stealing from everyone also furthers this)

That sounds annoying. Is he stealing from the party? Is the only reason his character hasn't been kicked out of the group because he's a PC? If so then this is the bad sort of metagaming.

[OldTrees1]

Since touchsight (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/touchsight.htm) is level 3, it is available as a Psionic Tattoo (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/items/psionicTattoos.htm) for 750 gp. And Tattoos can only be taken from you if you are unconscious or dead (or mind-controlled).

Add a capacitor tattoo (if you have 1 or more power points/day) for 1250 gp
Then you can use the Touchsight tattoo every 5 days instead of once. (although your pp/day is reduced by 1)

[Sith_Happens]

Which one? :smalltongue:

(And yes, it does matter.)

To be specific, if he's using the Tome of Magic version of the template he still needs cover or concealment to hide behind/in. If he's using the Cormyr: The Tearing of the Weave version then he can hide anywhere with sufficient cover from the sun and you need at least a Daylight spell to reveal him.

[Corrin Avatan]

Okay, this answer might seem a bit off-base, but...

It seems you're trying to fix mechanically (I need to see him) what's actually a Player problem (player constantly doing his own thing/committing crimes).

If you're the DM and it's bothering you so much you go to forums to try to "counter" him, you should just straight up say, "Hey, it's cool that you were able to get this sneaking thing going, but can you tone down the thefts? It's detracting the fun that the group is having. Is there a way we can compromise on that?"

If he's using up too much game time, create a new sub-system, where his success on a "night out thieving" is reduced to an opposed roll and a discovery check: each night he has a static X% chance of being discovered, and for each 5 over 20 he beats his stealth DC he gets to reduce that by 5% or so (minimum 5%). Then, roll a percentile and see if he gets discovered. Adjust the discovery chance by the value of stuff he's stealing.

Unless, of course, your group thinks it's fine, and you're the only one who has a problem with it.

However, I suspect you're a player; in that case, is there an in-game reason why your character would tell the rogue who's constantly stealing things to knock it off?

Finally, unless you guys go from city to city a LOT, I assume most of his thefts are in the same area. Eventually, some wealthy merchant who sees him as a threat (even though he's never seen him) would pay a wizard to Scry who this guy is (or some other Divination magic), and send goons to take care of him. I mean, think about the game Thief; even though Garret is the best thief that there ever was, people still know OF him, even if it's all rumor and suspicion.

So are you a player/DM, and is this other player's actions annoying the group? Taking up disproportionate game time? What is the underlying problem?

[Bellberith]

Okay, this answer might seem a bit off-base, but...

It seems you're trying to fix mechanically (I need to see him) what's actually a Player problem (player constantly doing his own thing/committing crimes).

If you're the DM and it's bothering you so much you go to forums to try to "counter" him, you should just straight up say, "Hey, it's cool that you were able to get this sneaking thing going, but can you tone down the thefts? It's detracting the fun that the group is having. Is there a way we can compromise on that?"

If he's using up too much game time, create a new sub-system, where his success on a "night out thieving" is reduced to an opposed roll and a discovery check: each night he has a static X% chance of being discovered, and for each 5 over 20 he beats his stealth DC he gets to reduce that by 5% or so (minimum 5%). Then, roll a percentile and see if he gets discovered. Adjust the discovery chance by the value of stuff he's stealing.

Unless, of course, your group thinks it's fine, and you're the only one who has a problem with it.

However, I suspect you're a player; in that case, is there an in-game reason why your character would tell the rogue who's constantly stealing things to knock it off?

Finally, unless you guys go from city to city a LOT, I assume most of his thefts are in the same area. Eventually, some wealthy merchant who sees him as a threat (even though he's never seen him) would pay a wizard to Scry who this guy is (or some other Divination magic), and send goons to take care of him. I mean, think about the game Thief; even though Garret is the best thief that there ever was, people still know OF him, even if it's all rumor and suspicion.

So are you a player/DM, and is this other player's actions annoying the group? Taking up disproportionate game time? What is the underlying problem?

I am a player. And we are all having fun. He isnt annoying or taking up too much time.

I just want a way for my character to reliable detect him pretty much whenever so it doesn't happen to me and i would be able to kill him if i desired.