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Catfolk Monk
2014-03-03, 01:43 PM
Basically what I'm trying to do is homebrew a race that's a buffed up "human", but I can't decide exactly what to do with it. My thoughts are either +2 to all ability scores, +2 to all ability scores except 1 which gets +4, +2 to any three ability scores of the player's choice, or +2 to any 2 ability scores of the player's choice and +4 to another. I also think I'll give them a bonus feat, or maybe even 2, and extra skill points. Maybe throw some natural armor in there. Like 1 or 2 points. What would be most fair and what would an appropriate level adjustment be? Btw, I've always thought the level adjustments on almost all monster races is too high. In my group we occasionally lower the level adjustment on races so that the character is even playable at all. Also keep in mind that the doppelganger gets +2 to all ability scores except for 1 (wis) which gets +4. I would like for this race to have a lower level adjustment than the doppelganger's +4. I also want 0 racial hit dice.
Thanks.

Grod_The_Giant
2014-03-03, 02:12 PM
a) What system?
b) What, exactly, are you trying to balance against?
c) There's a homebrew section for exactly this sort of thing-- if you report your own post, you can ask the mods to move it. You might get better responses there.

Segev
2014-03-03, 03:27 PM
Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm) Human would probably be too much, given the benchmarks you've listed above. But I thought I'd point it out anyway.

KillianHawkeye
2014-03-03, 04:42 PM
Paragon (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/paragonCreature.htm) Human would probably be too much, given the benchmarks you've listed above. But I thought I'd point it out anyway.

Well that IS an Epic template, so yeah, a bit over the top to have an entire race of them running around. :smallamused:



@OP, I would say that getting five +2s and a +4 to ability scores is almost worth a +2 Level Adjustment all on its own. Those are crazy good stats, especially if they get to choose which ability gets the +4. Combined with the bonus feat and bonus skill points that a normal human gets, I would have no problem playing that at LA +2.

You could probably even throw in a point or two of natural armor without increasing it, but not more than that if you want these things to still look like humans. Actually, I might consider giving them a flat Damage Reduction 1/- instead of the natural armor. But we might be getting into Level Adjustment +3 territory here, although I'm not an expert with creating creatures and balancing LA.



I agree that the Homebrew subforum would be a better place to get feedback for this idea, though.

Catfolk Monk
2014-03-04, 01:56 AM
a) What system?
b) What, exactly, are you trying to balance against?


a) Really anything 3.0, 3.5, or Pathfinder. We use material from all three.
b) I'm not really sure what you mean by this, but I'll take a guess. I'm trying to make it more powerful than Player's Handbook races and weaker than the doppelganger. I don't wan it to actually resemble the doppelganger in its other more special abilities, I'm just using it for comparison.

The Insanity
2014-03-04, 03:30 AM
Advanced (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/monster-listings/templates/advanced-creature-cr-1) Human (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/core-races/human).

Drachasor
2014-03-04, 05:40 AM
Why not use the Racial Paragon classes (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/racialParagonClasses.htm)?

Granted, some of them could use a little buffing (such as Half Elves, those poor bastards). As for spellcasting, let them pick any appropriate class to use as a base, so all Human Paragon (3) cast as a 2nd level something.

So a Superhuman Race is just one where every member has 3 levels of the Human Paragon class.

Catfolk Monk
2015-01-29, 08:41 PM
Thanks for the replies.

The advanced template is crazy powerful. +4 to all ability scores for only one extra CR? It's actually more powerful than what I wanted and it looks to me like it's not even intended for pc use, but I'm glad I now know about it.

The human paragon is also a good idea, but I think it's actually a little weaker than what I wanted. It also involves 3 levels. I'd like to do this in 2 level adjustment if possible.

Right now I'm thinking I'll end up going with this:
+4 to one ability score and +2 to 2 others.
1 extra skill point every level.
1 bonus feat at 1st level that can be anything the character meets the prerequisites for.
Skill Focus (Any) as a bonus feat at 1st level.
2 level adjustment

atemu1234
2015-01-29, 08:43 PM
Thanks for the replies.

The advanced template is crazy powerful. +4 to all ability scores for only one extra CR? It's actually more powerful than what I wanted and it looks to me like it's not even intended for pc use, but I'm glad I now know about it.

The human paragon is also a good idea, but I think it's actually a little weaker than what I wanted. It also involves 3 levels. I'd like to do this in 2 level adjustment if possible.

Right now I'm thinking I'll end up going with this:
+4 to one ability score and +2 to 2 others.
1 extra skill point every level.
1 bonus feat at 1st level that can be anything the character meets the prerequisites for.
Skill Focus (Any) as a bonus feat at 1st level.
2 level adjustment

In 3.5, advanced is probably about +2-+3 LA.

Rebel7284
2015-01-29, 08:49 PM
Athasian Human, Dragon Mag 319, page 26. All human traits, but they also get +2 to any two stats, plus minor Psionics that scale with levels. +1 LA.

Larrx
2015-01-30, 01:11 AM
Do you specifically want better humans with all that implies(generic, good at anything they choose to focus on)? I had a human looking race once (they weren't human, but no one knew that). They had +4 Str, +2 Con, +2 Dex, they were proficient with spears and javelins, they got a +4 racial bonus to jump and hide, and they got track as a bonus feat. You can probably guess the roll they filled in my setting. Sometimes a little focus/specialization can make a race a more interesting addition to a campaign.

I never assigned an LA because they weren't a player race, but I also think LA is far too high/punishing. I probably wouldn't give them one.

Of course I'd waive the LA and RHD of a troll if someone wanted to play a troll fighter in a party with a wizard, druid and cleric. It's not like he won't still be the member of the party least able to contribute.

Almarck
2015-01-30, 01:15 AM
May we ask what is the actual purpose in game of this race and who is playing it?

It might help us better understand your goals and recommend appropriately. But either way, yes the cr and level adjustments and stats no matter how you dice it are a little over the top.

Savannah
2015-01-30, 11:29 AM
The Mod One Out: Moved to Homebrew section.

Zaydos
2015-01-30, 02:09 PM
Humans are already on the high end of LA +0; or more "better than human" is the benchmark for LA +1 (dwarves and a few scattered races are better at some things).

+2 to 5 stats, +4 to 1 on top of human traits plants them fully in LA +2, giving them 2 bonus feats (including the human bonus) would probably be a good idea, maybe even another +1 skill point/level. Another extra feat might be pushing it, and this also depends upon if LA buyoff is used and what level the game will be at. I'd avoid natural armor in this case, but +1 might not be pushing it (+1 < extra feat)

+2 to 3 and normal human bonus feat/skill points probably +1 LA, if buyoff is used it's a strong +1 LA, if buyoff isn't used you might want to give them another bonus feat or natural armor, possibly give them a bonus feat at 10th level or some such.

+2 to 2 and +4 to one the +4 is worth a lot more and I'd advice giving them an extra bonus feat, and +2 natural armor or a third extra bonus feat and bonus skill points and making them +2 LA. Again it depends upon if LA buyoff is used, level of game, and so forth.

Of course this applies to 3.5 not PF where races are substantially stronger and I lack experience to functionally comment.