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Khantalas
2007-02-01, 04:00 AM
OK, seeing Incarnum Blade and War Mind got me thinking lately. How many different systems of magic or similar effects could you add to what is actually a primary warrior? After long nights of tedious research and lots of coffee consumption (actually, it took me about three hours and I didn't have coffee) and avoiding deadly ninjas that wanted to prevent me from discovering the deepest secrets of D&D, I found five classes that would allow me to use five different magic systems without incurring XP penalties.

Male Personality Warforged Warblade 20 / Incarnum Blade 5 / War Mind 10 / Corrupted Avenger 10 / Pious Templar 10.

Behold, the awesome, MAD maniac, full BAB (which hardly matters since it goes epic to get full progression in these classes) warrior that can initiate manuevers and stances, meldshape, manifest psionic powers and cast both arcane and divine spells.

Now, on to my questions:

1) Is this thing do-able? I mean, prerequisite-wise? Can constructs even gain a taint score? If they can (and as far as I can tell, they can), how would, say, Nose Rots affect a Warforged?
2) Without removing the MAD (right now, this character needs everything but Dexterity badly), what can replace Corrupted Avenger (which needs Charisma) and Pious Templar (which needs Wisdom, along with War Mind) as full BAB seperate spellcasting classes?
3) Are there any other "magic" systems that you can think of that has full BAB, seperate use of magic and no need for a base class other than Warblade? For example, the original Trueblade had full progression of Acolyte of the Ego, but I realized that it has "Race: humanoid" as a prerequisite, which doesn't make sense, but it is a rule.
4) How hard will it be to choose Skills and Feats for this thing? Which books would you recommend to look at?
5) How could I use this creature?
6) Are there any other immortal races that would allow me more options? Immortal is a must, because this creature should be able to add systems as they come.
7) Am I insane for thinking about such a trivial thing?

Zincorium
2007-02-01, 06:10 AM
1. Well, main problem I can see is finding the experience tables for characters above 30, since they're not spelled out even in the epic handbook as far as I know. And even undead and locations can gain taint according to heroes of horror, so warforged seem likely candidates. I'd honestly use the undead rules of taint for constructs, but that's a DM call.

2. Don't recall any off the top of my head. I'll look around further.

3. Shadowsmith, from Tome of Magic. Fairly steep skill requirements, but it provides mysteries without a previous class dip.

4. Skills, mainly whatever you need for pre-reqs. Mostly the same for feats, and you could probably specialize in a single weapon to stupidly high levels since warblade will let you take most fighter-only (well, previously to ToB fighter only) feats.

5. I have no idea. CR of 55, no usage as a PC in any campaign I can imagine.

6. Elan seems to be popular. Or the various undead, of which Necropolitan is the easiest since it has no actual ECL increase.

7. Probably, but you're certainly in good company if that's the case.

8*. Is your avatar a freaky version of Grace from El goonish shive? I see some resemblances but it looks a bit evil to be her.

*not actually a question asked.

Yuki Akuma
2007-02-01, 06:14 AM
1. Well, main problem I can see is finding the experience tables for characters above 30, since they're not spelled out even in the epic handbook as far as I know.

Let x = experience needed to reach level n.

Let y = experience needed to reach level n+1

y = x + n*1000

It's a simple formula.

Zincorium
2007-02-01, 06:22 AM
Let x = experience needed to reach level n.

Let y = experience needed to reach level n+1

y = x + n*1000

It's a simple formula.

Gotcha. I have never played a character above 17, since I very much prefer starting lower and working up, so above 30 wasn't something I needed to think about.

Khantalas
2007-02-01, 08:57 AM
1. Well, main problem I can see is finding the experience tables for characters above 30, since they're not spelled out even in the epic handbook as far as I know. And even undead and locations can gain taint according to heroes of horror, so warforged seem likely candidates. I'd honestly use the undead rules of taint for constructs, but that's a DM call.

Yuki answered that, but I wanted to state that this thing has a minimum XP of 2,970,000. Minimum. Using the standard rules, not the UA variant. So, yeah.


2. Don't recall any off the top of my head. I'll look around further.

Thank you.


3. Shadowsmith, from Tome of Magic. Fairly steep skill requirements, but it provides mysteries without a previous class dip.

DUH! You know, I checked Shadowblade, but not the Shadowsmith. Just a few pages, and the class I was looking for would be there.


4. Skills, mainly whatever you need for pre-reqs. Mostly the same for feats, and you could probably specialize in a single weapon to stupidly high levels since warblade will let you take most fighter-only (well, previously to ToB fighter only) feats.

Past the prerequisites?


5. I have no idea. CR of 55, no usage as a PC in any campaign I can imagine.

Yeah, that is a problem. That has a very high CR to meet most PCs in a battle. I was thinking of as an ancient guardian, but the question is, ancient guardian of what? Be as setting-neutral as you wish.


6. Elan seems to be popular. Or the various undead, of which Necropolitan is the easiest since it has no actual ECL increase.

Well, what do I gain in terms of more magic systems with such choices (though my next challenge is an elan: the Monk of All Possible Classes. With a wisdom penalty, a warforged doesn't work that great in that area.)


7. Probably, but you're certainly in good company if that's the case.

Thank you very much.


8*. Is your avatar a freaky version of Grace from El goonish shive? I see some resemblances but it looks a bit evil to be her.

*not actually a question asked.

You are correct. Though she did look pretty evil at Painted Black: Fallen From Grace, and it's probably the eyes. OotS eyes are monocolored and without the white, it looks kind of weird (I dare you to do better).

Feralgeist
2007-02-04, 06:19 AM
what about warlock invocations, truename magic, and pact magic? not to mention artificer infusions

Khantalas
2007-02-04, 06:42 AM
None of those have Prestige Classes that gives you new abilities in those systems and full BAB without levels in a class that already give the spellcasting thingie.

Truename magic has Acolyte of the Ego, but it is humanoid only. Pact magic has Knight of the Sacred Seal, but it requires at least one level of Binder. Warlock and Artificier have no such PrCs.

Believe me, I've searched for them.

The_Snark
2007-02-04, 06:03 PM
None of those have Prestige Classes that gives you new abilities in those systems and full BAB without levels in a class that already give the spellcasting thingie.

Truename magic has Acolyte of the Ego, but it is humanoid only. Pact magic has Knight of the Sacred Seal, but it requires at least one level of Binder. Warlock and Artificier have no such PrCs.

Believe me, I've searched for them.

You could take the Bind Vestige feat to get at least a bit of Pact Magic, at least. Too bad the Knight of the Sacred Seal requires the actual soul binding ability; you can technically get away with entering the Anima Mage with just Improved Bind Vestige. I think you're out of luck on the infusion/invocation front, though... maybe Dragon Magic's got something for you there?

Duskblade could replace Corrupt Avenger, reducing the MAD, but it's a twenty-level class. Same for Paladin/Ranger replacing Pious Templar... although come to think of it, that actually wouldn't reduce the MAD at all.

Khantalas
2007-02-04, 06:10 PM
Fact is, the experiment is creating a high amount of MAD and not incurring any XP penalties. The only base class should be Warblade.

So, no Duskblade.