Pathfinder (Please help): Designing a gypsy bard.

[Calemyr]

I recently got involved with a Pathfinder gaming group starting their first campaign in the system (Rise of the Runelords). I opted to play a bard, primarily out of a stubborn belief that bards (contrary to popular belief) do not necessarily have to suck.

After my first session, I bought a few packs of Pathfinder models in the hopes of finding a proper model for my character as I'd originally envisioned him. I failed miserably, but I did get one that gave me another idea. The Hellknight Signifer could really work as a gypsy bard. Namely a dancer (possibly eventually a shadow dancer) that specializes in weaponizing her clothing - namely her cloak, which would be her weapon of choice. If you've seen the Signifer's model, you likely understand why this concept is fitting.

What I would like to do is come up with some legitimate variation on the "Slashing Cloak". A primary weapon, that is, that could serve as a cut-down version of the Slashing Cloak until a 20k item is an acceptable big-ticket posession.

I suppose the first question is one regarding reading the rules: The Scorpion Whip, how should the rules for it be interpreted? Is it a weaponized whip (which bards can use via whip proficiency) or is it a weapon that can be used like a whip if you can use whips? Put a more direct way, can a bard use a scorpion whip in order to be a legitimate threat in battle, or does whip proficiency just give the scorpion whip the traits of a whip: reach, trip, etc. I would think the prior because the whip is a 1h weapon, while the scorpion whip is a light weapon and thus presumably not long enough to have reach.

The reason I ask is that I could see a mundane version of the Slashing Cloak as a refluffed scorpion whip. If whip proficiency allows use of scorpion whips, a bard would start with all the resources needed to use a "razor cloak". If not, I'm not sure how to achieve it.

The second question is: One of the thoughts I had about it was to make her weapon and armor eventually be made of living shadow. The idea I'm thinking is to make them out of mithril and give them the glammered enchantment to create the proper effect using the rules. Is there another option that makes more sense?

Final question: Is the shadowdancer in Pathfinder a good prestige class? I don't need (or want) a super-top-tier build or anything. The campaign is straight out of the book, so an uber-optimized character would frankly detract from the group experience. I'm just curious whether following the aesthetic to it's logical conclusion would improve the character or cripple her.

[Corrin Avatan]

I'm not sure if this helps, but here's some designer answering questions about the scorpion whip:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&page=420?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Questions-Here#20961

Threads I've found on it are along the lines of "I wish they'd release clarifying errata". But from reading that post, it seems that a Scorpion Whip is a Whip, that can be used to either do lethal damage, or be treated as a whip (with damage and reach), but not at the same time.

I think there's a bard trait that lets you add Performance category to a specific weapon; the Bladed Scarf might do you right if you want to stick with a theme.

Here's another one that might make it clearer.

http://floridapfs.org/forums/index.php?topic=946.0

[Calemyr]

I'm not sure if this helps, but here's some designer answering questions about the scorpion whip:

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2l7ns&page=420?Ask-James-Jacobs-ALL-your-Questions-Here#20961

Threads I've found on it are along the lines of "I wish they'd release clarifying errata". But from reading that post, it seems that a Scorpion Whip is a Whip, that can be used to either do lethal damage, or be treated as a whip (with damage and reach), but not at the same time.

I think there's a bard trait that lets you add Performance category to a specific weapon; the Bladed Scarf might do you right if you want to stick with a theme.

Here's another one that might make it clearer.

http://floridapfs.org/forums/index.php?topic=946.0

What's the bladed scarf from?

[Corrin Avatan]

Inner Sea World Guide, and also page 10 of the Rise of the Runelord Player's Guide, which you DEFINITELY should read prior to going in; it gives you some heads up on what are "normally good, but bad for this adventure path" feats are.

Bladed Scarf has reach, but can be used on adjacent enemies without penalty, and it can be used with Weapon Finesse. You can trip, and if you're proficient, anything that grapples you takes 1d4 slashing.

[Alent]

Inner Sea World Guide, and also page 10 of the Rise of the Runelord Player's Guide, which you DEFINITELY should read prior to going in; it gives you some heads up on what are "normally good, but bad for this adventure path" feats are.

Bladed Scarf has reach, but can be used on adjacent enemies without penalty, and it can be used with Weapon Finesse. You can trip, and if you're proficient, anything that grapples you takes 1d4 slashing.

It should be noted that the Inner Sea World Guide version has Reach, but it was later DevForumPostErrata'd to not have reach. (The version without reach can be found on the pfsrd.)

The scarf is an Exotic 2H Weapon, but there's an NPC example bard in the ISWG lacking the proficiency while having an offense entry that doesn't reflect the non-proficiency penalty.

[Calemyr]

It should be noted that the Inner Sea World Guide version has Reach, but it was later DevForumPostErrata'd to not have reach. (The version without reach can be found on the pfsrd.)

The scarf is an Exotic 2H Weapon, but there's an NPC example bard in the ISWG lacking the proficiency while having an offense entry that doesn't reflect the non-proficiency penalty.

While cool, I don't think it's cool enough to be a 2h exotic weapon if it has only d6 damage and trip.

Looking at the RotRL player's guide, a Varisian bard would be exactly what I had in mind, and the bladed scarf is a very promising weapon.

The version in the RotRL has reach, thankfully.

[Corrin Avatan]

The skill required in using such scarves effectively and not revealing their deadly nature makes them exotic weapons.

It doesn't say so explicitly, but the fluff on them implies that, if you're proficient in them, you can hide the fact that it's a weapon. As a Bard, you could easily have that be a Sleight of Hand or Perform check; but I'm not sure how often you'll need to hide weapons comes up in RotRL.

However, the fluff definitely fits in with your theme.

[VexingFool]

The trait Tatooed Mystic gives proficiency in bladed scarf and starknife as well as a +1 trait saving throw bonus vs charm and compulsions.

[Calemyr]

Can you take that trait if you're a half-elf who was living in a Varisian caravan? What would you have to sacrifice for it? I don't have the pdf at work and the next session starts shortly after I get back.

Corrin, you are awesome. That player's guide was the perfect resource for what I was looking for. The Varisian culture is exactly what I was envisioning before I even knew the guide existed. (Though I suppose it's not an original idea, now, it's pretty cool that it's got a solid foundation in the setting.) The scarf is a perfect weapon for it, too. I also liked the starwheels, but figured I was pushing for enough with just asking make the scarf a bard weapon. If I can legally take that trait, it would accomplish everything I wished without asking for any house-ruling at all. And that would be sweet.

One other question for you guys: one of my future ideas for the character (if she survives long enough) is to acquire armor and weapons for her that are made of some sort of "physical shadow" material. Like some amorphous, quasi-real material that could take the shape she desires: an armor that could switch between being a dancer's outfit to adventurer-worthy armor to an elegant black dress for some aristocratic ball. At the moment I'm figuring it'll just be items made of mithril and given the glammered enchantment. Is there any more official way to achieve this?

[Corrin Avatan]

Can you take that trait if you're a half-elf who was living in a Varisian caravan? What would you have to sacrifice for it? I don't have the pdf at work and the next session starts shortly after I get back.

Corrin, you are awesome. That player's guide was the perfect resource for what I was looking for. The Varisian culture is exactly what I was envisioning before I even knew the guide existed. (Though I suppose it's not an original idea, now, it's pretty cool that it's got a solid foundation in the setting.) The scarf is a perfect weapon for it, too. I also liked the starwheels, but figured I was pushing for enough with just asking make the scarf a bard weapon. If I can legally take that trait, it would accomplish everything I wished without asking for any house-ruling at all. And that would be sweet.

One other question for you guys: one of my future ideas for the character (if she survives long enough) is to acquire armor and weapons for her that are made of some sort of "physical shadow" material. Like some amorphous, quasi-real material that could take the shape she desires: an armor that could switch between being a dancer's outfit to adventurer-worthy armor to an elegant black dress for some aristocratic ball. At the moment I'm figuring it'll just be items made of mithril and given the glammered enchantment. Is there any more official way to achieve this?

If you're playing by standard rules, your character gets two "traits", one of which must be selected from the RotRL Campaign Guide. Campaign traits generally give you a bonus that will come into play throughout the campaign, and also give your character a reason for why they're in the starting area (the campaign doesn't assume you all arrive as a single adventuring party).

Technically, you give up nothing to take a trait; you get two for free. They're basically watered-down feats that give some background fluff to your character and give a slight edge. It's not uncommon for a trait to turn a skill into a Class skill, for example.

As a half-elf, you count as both a Human and and Elf, so you meet the racial requirement for the trait (human)

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/race-traits/varisian-tattoo-varisia

As for the armor, I'll have to dig around, but that's high level and you have some time :-P

[Calemyr]

If you're playing by standard rules, your character gets two "traits", one of which must be selected from the RotRL Campaign Guide. Campaign traits generally give you a bonus that will come into play throughout the campaign, and also give your character a reason for why they're in the starting area (the campaign doesn't assume you all arrive as a single adventuring party).

Technically, you give up nothing to take a trait; you get two for free. They're basically watered-down feats that give some background fluff to your character and give a slight edge. It's not uncommon for a trait to turn a skill into a Class skill, for example.

As a half-elf, you count as both a Human and and Elf, so you meet the racial requirement for the trait (human)

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/traits/race-traits/varisian-tattoo-varisia

As for the armor, I'll have to dig around, but that's high level and you have some time :-P

Ah, the DM never mentioned that. I didn't know traits were built into this campaign so I just made a standard bard. Given I'm the only one in the 8-man group who has ever played Pathfinder before, I should really be more proactive in that regard.

My character's introduction into the plot was a little late. My bard was being held as a potential sacrifice in the side room in the room with the minor runewell and the quasit witch. This new version of the bard was devised after that session, but I have to admit that a half-elf Varisian works even better for that: nobody would have cared if such a creature went missing, making her the perfect sacrificial pawn.

[VexingFool]

Low level item that would work in the interim until you get glamered armor is Sleeves of Many Garments. Throw in a little prestidigitation for the shadow fx.

[Corrin Avatan]

Low level item that would work in the interim until you get glamered armor is Sleeves of Many Garments. Throw in a little prestidigitation for the shadow fx.

Actually, here's what I was thinking:

Glamered has a set cost, but what you're asking for is something that LOOKS like it's made of shadow; Glamered looks like the real freaking deal. Someone needs to cast a spell to figure out that it's an illusion.

As a DM, I would actually allow a "Shadow Glamer", which would have the same crunch as a Glamered set of armor, but would cost less, as no matter what you turn it into, it's always apparent that it's "solid shadow" or whatever. The cost would be slightly less than a set of regular Glamered, because some of the utility that the Glamered spell has isn't there (ability to "hide" your armor as a completely normal looking set of clothes) If it always looks like it's made of shadow, everyone will think it's magical, so they'll not be caught unawares.

Sleeves of Many Garments could be custom-made in that way, as well, but I'm not sure if prestidigitation would be needed. Or, add the cost of a permanent prestidigitation to the Sleeves of Many Garments item cost.