Roy was fully justified in attacking Miko. HOWEVER

[TreesOfDeath]

Ok Miko has just murdered someone right in front of them, after insisting the OOTS must be completely evil. Given what they know of Miko and such, their was a strong possbility that Miko's next action was to attack Roy head on (Miko has been one to reason through things). Miko being as dangerous as she is, Roy may well have needed the avdantage of first strike, and had more than sufficent justifacation for attacking her (persiedes we don't know if he was intending to kill her). Also ROy was just plain pissed off, which doesn't make it right, but makes it more understandable. Miko has shown she pretty much doesn't learn from her mistakes, and shes already branded Roy as evil, he didn't have much reason to believe he could negotiate with Miko.
BUT Roy was wrong and obnoxious to insult Miko like he did, when she was finally feeling guilt and doubt, and is pushing her further and further down the path of crazy vegenance (blackguard or otherwise). But wrong or not, maybe you can understand why he did it. Roy isn't as cool or calm as a leader should be, and I think he will get soem kidn of comupance (sp) eventually.

[Alfryd]

I concur. That is all.

Well- he might have told her to surrender or face an immediate showdown. Not that Miko would be hugely likely to comply.

[Serenity]

Insulting enemies is what he does. Sun Tzu: "If your enemy is of a choleric temper, seek to irritate him." That being because angry opponents are reckless opponents. See Barbarian Rage and its AC penalty.

Was he perhaps a little vindictive? Yes. But he's not interested in redeeming her. Why should he be? He's interested in taking her down, and he does that by making his enemies angry.

[Alfryd]

He's interested in taking her down, and he does that by making his enemies angry.Ohmigods! Roy is a Dashing Swordsman! And he never told us!

Why, Roy! Whyyy?

[Dectilon]

As opposed to how it generally works out (with the hero making the villain so angry that the villain starts to make mistakes) anger seems to only make Miko stronger : ) Now he will have a über-powerful blackguard (or whatever) to deal with later on. Way to go : P

2 comics earlier he said they should stay out of the matter. Ye, that seemed to be a good idea. Having Hinjo talk first there would probably have saved them all a lot of pain (now, and in the future). But there's no loading function to fall back on here : )

[Adeptus]

Roy is a believable (young) human, not some paragon of leadership.

In a RPG I vastly prefer characters played like that, rather than those played with detachment and calm effisciensy.

Go Roy! (And go Belkar!!)

If Roy was a saint he wouldn't taunt Miko when she is down. He isn't. He's an angry and frustrated young man, who's just seen an (annoying but needed) ally cut down by a person he already disliked.

[Dectilon]

I agree; and it's more interesting this way, but somehow it feels a little too... classic...

On the other hand, maybe V will suddenly appear and blast her into oblivion. One can never tell with Mr.Burlew ^^

[Zael Zuran]

Miko might very well escape and plague Roy again, because he wanted to have the personal satisfaction of hurting her. In a duel and with his words. This is very different from seeking to stop her immediately and getting to the more pressing threat posed by Xykon.

If Roy was to make a logical appeal to anyone, it should have been Hinjo. The only person in that room (still alive) with the authority to make certain Miko was restrained and eventually investigated / tried fairly was a shocked and grief stricken Hinjo.

There's a time for mourning. When you are suddenly promoted to the leadership of a city under siege from both within and without, that time needs to be put off for later.

Roy had enough presence of mind to "play" with Miko like a cat with a mouse, instead of using his MBA to finish the encounter as quickly as possible in a manner that most closely mirrored his ethical alignment.

Yet strangely, he didn't have enough clarity to simply shout to Hinjo to make sure the exits were blocked, by something more substantial than an amoral Halfling who believes he can take no action.

Roy screwed up. Not by hurting her feelings, but by making it possible that she could escape and hurt others, including his closest friends.

[Serenity]

Hinjo's effectively out of the picture; he's mourning over his uncle's body, certainly not in the presence of mind to wade into the fray. Nor would he necessarily have the skills to take on Miko anyway. And if there were guards near enough that Hinjo could shout for them to block the exits in time to stop Miko, they'd be here already.

Not ending the fight quickly? Roy's hitting her every round. She's a 16th or 17th level character, she's got a boatload of HP.

[SteveMB]

And if there were guards near enough that Hinjo could shout for them to block the exits in time to stop Miko, they'd be here already.
Assuming that the guards are tough enough to be more than speed bumps in Miko's way....

[elliott20]

Well, I have a very distinct feeling Miko is going to escape.

You can tell by the dialogue. "I need time to figure what the gods want me to do next". This very implication shows the Giant has more development in mind for her to do. So evidentally, she's got more story to tell.

[Learnedguy]

Pretty much yeah, but so what?

Stopping Miko one way or another seemed like a pretty smart idea, considering the fact that she had already cut down one person of the people she percived as evil.

And Roy is pretty famous for his enourmusly sucky sense motivation (or whatever it's called), so I suppose that's why he didn't realize that in her current state of mind she wasn't really that threatning.

Also, Roy isn't forced to have morals, like Pallys. He is LG by choice, thus he might, in the right state of mind wanna stray away from the truly good sense of mind (not entirely unlike Miko, but then again, he's not bat**** insane, so I doubt he'd do it in the same manner as MIko^^). It was, I suppose, about revenge.

[erewhon]

Pretty much yeah, but so what?

Stopping Miko one way or another seemed like a pretty smart idea, considering the fact that she had already cut down one person of the people she percived as evil.

Plus, Roy owes Miko. She beat him when all he had was a hunk of wood, and then publicly chained him and dragged him down the road. He had probably been dreaming about this beating for months.


And Roy is pretty famous for his enourmusly sucky sense motivation (or whatever it's called), so I suppose that's why he didn't realize that in her current state of mind she wasn't really that threatning.

Roy, while quite smart and clever, is a fighter. 2 skillpoints per level don't go very far toward the huge Diplomacy skill it'd take to talk Miko down.

Hitting her really hard, though.... :D



Also, Roy isn't forced to have morals, like Pallys. He is LG by choice, thus he might, in the right state of mind wanna stray away from the truly good sense of mind (not entirely unlike Miko, but then again, he's not bat**** insane, so I doubt he'd do it in the same manner as MIko^^). It was, I suppose, about revenge.


I suspect that most of the people whining about Roy's actions are not strong D and D tacticians. Sure, it'd be nice for Roy to talk her down...using an untrained Diplomacy. Never, EVER, gonna work.

He took the smartest, best option available to him, given his gifts.

[Jefepato]

Taking a second to give Miko a "drop the sword and surrender" ultimatum might have been slightly more optimal, but I don't blame Roy for doing what he did. Besides, Hinjo (who, being a paladin, probably had a much better chance than Roy of getting through to her) does not appear to have been in any condition to intervene.

[TreesOfDeath]

I think this thread deserves a bump

[Greebo]

Yeah because there aren't enough discussions about Roy was/wasn't justified...what he should/shouldn't have done, etc...

[Chaos Fire]

I'm not really one for these kinds of discussions, but I will say this:

Roy degrading Miko is not going to "push her farther down the path of revenge." It's what people do. That, and Miko still feels that Roy tricked her, so no matter what he said, it would have had the same result.