[PF] Options for Defences Against Firearms

[inertia709]

What are some options for PCs and NPCs to defend themselves against guns? I just started GMing a campaign in which guns are common and I want to know what's out there. I'm planning on homebrewing a psionic power and a custom magic item or two, but I want to know what's already available first.

[The Insanity]

Cover.
Anything that works on projectile weapons, I guess?

[inertia709]

Yeah, cover is one of the things I plan to include in most encounters. It's more similar to actual shoot outs that way too, which is cool. I'm also giving monsters half of their natural armour bonus to touch AC for the purpose of gun fire, since many monsters' AC is almost entirely natural armour.

[TypoNinja]

Protection from Arrows.

Despite its name the spell text specifies that you gain DR vs ranged weapons.


I'm also giving monsters half of their natural armour bonus to touch AC for the purpose of gun fire, since many monsters' AC is almost entirely natural armour.

Actually, on that note, depending on whats being shot, bullets might not work at all. For instance I've been told that its entirely possible to bounce .22 rounds off a gators hide. So Platemail would probably stop most small arms fire as well.

If its not too much work you might want to come up with some kind of penetration values to help with that.

[NightbringerGGZ]

Amulet's of Bullet Protection (+X) give a luck bonus to AC against fire arm attacks.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Anything that applies to Touch AC,

[icefractal]

I find that most of the anti-gun specific stuff (Amulet of Bullet Protection) only works if you already have very high touch AC. Otherwise - you're using touch AC, against a guy with full BAB; it's like trying to bail out the Titanic with a paper cup.

If you're willing to homebrew things, there's some 3.5 stuff that would help:
* Ray Deflection (spell). Forces gun-users to hit you with non-touch attacks.
* Deflection Field (psionic power). Decent deflection bonus as a swift action.
* Scintillating Scales (spell). Converts natural armor bonus to deflection bonus.

Other than that:
* There's the Deflecting weapon property. TWF with a pair of Deflecting weapons, and that's two shots a round blocked.
* Speaking of Psionic powers, there's one called Deflect - immediate action, stops one ranged attack.
* Bullet Magnets are 100% effective. But also they get destroyed by the shots, so either use several, or make one out of really tough material.
* Wind Wall / Fickle Winds - 30% miss chance.
* Entropic Shield - Another 20% miss chance.

[Corrin Avatan]

Any spells that affect ranged attacks (like a strong wind) will affect guns, as they are ranged attacks outside of their first range increment, which for most early firearms (which I assume you are using) is 10 feet, with the occasional 20 foot increment.

Concealment miss chance would still apply. Anything that nerfs ranged attacks would apply.

Really, I don't think firearms are really anything that you should have to worry much about; while they can crit for more damage, if you crit fail on a crossbow you don't blow yourself up.

The only really nice thing about a gun is that inside their first range increment, you can touch AC ranged attack someone in full plate. But that means you just shot someone within 10-20 feet of you, who is likely going to charge you and take your head off.

[Corrin Avatan]

Actually, on that note, depending on whats being shot, bullets might not work at all. For instance I've been told that its entirely possible to bounce .22 rounds off a gators hide. So Platemail would probably stop most small arms fire as well.

If its not too much work you might want to come up with some kind of penetration values to help with that.

In the real world, that is possible, if you're firing a "weak" (sub-1000 fps) gunpowder load behind a 24-26 grain bullet. I.E. using a target practice load for hunting.

I'm not sure if you've ever seen it, but most of the Gator hunters in Swamp People used .22s to kill the gators, because they left smaller bullet holes. They were just using a heavier load both in bullet grain (weight) and charge. Probably using 36-40 grain bullets.



Considering most of the early firearms are basically muzzle-loaders, you can assume they are firing pretty big rounds, and the gunpowder charges behind them. In fact, going from the firearms rules:

30 bullets weigh 1/2 a pound, or 8 ounces *by themselves, not including the gunpowder charge*

each bullet is then approx .26 ounces.

.26 ounces, converted into grains, is 113.75 grains. For comparison, that would be comparable to a bullet from an AK-47 (112-120 grains) in terms of amount of metal being propelled.


But, honestly, that's real-worlding a fantasy game.

I don't believe that you should need to add DR and Penetration, because of what I mentioned before: unless you're going in a setting where everyone has advanced firearms, you're only going to be able to hit touch AC within 10 feet, maybe 20 if you have one of the fancy guns. You're basically going to get one free shot.

[icefractal]

IIRC, the range is more like 20' for pistols, 30-40' for rifles. 10' is only for niche guns like concealed pistols and such. Gunslingers have abilities to increase this range, also.

And if the OP is running a "guns are common" world, then advanced firearms with longer range increments may be available.

[inertia709]

Amulet's of Bullet Protection (+X) give a luck bonus to AC against fire arm attacks.

Thank you, this is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for! :smallbiggrin:

... Although as icefractal pointed out, it's not going to be enough on most characters. I'll definitely have to consider some of the other suggestions as well, and maybe give that item a boost.

[Lord Vukodlak]

For my own rule set I changed firearms are touch attacks to they ignore six points of armor. On the other hand I increased the range increment on non-scatter weapons by 50%.

[Slipperychicken]

Most illusions (displacement, mirror image, etc) work just fine against guns.

Most gun-users won't add a stat to damage, or even have Deadly Aim, until they're level 4-5 (unless you're in Guns Everywhere), so until then the damage before criticals is pretty much laughable. DR will basically invalidate it until then (However, beware the smart gunslinger who remembered to pack his full suite of ammo types and weapon oils).

Aside from the touch-attack thing, gunslingers are basically archers who need more feats (and a level dip) to function, get a worse range increment, and have 2000gp bows which break 5-20% of the time.

[icefractal]

Sorta. They're not very impressive at low levels. At mid+ level, a Gunslinger's attack roll is usually "Yes", they're adding Dex or Cha to damage, making 6+ attacks, and critting for a lot. The touch AC thing really starts to add up as level rises.

[TypoNinja]

In the real world, that is possible, if you're firing a "weak" (sub-1000 fps) gunpowder load behind a 24-26 grain bullet. I.E. using a target practice load for hunting.

I'm not sure if you've ever seen it, but most of the Gator hunters in Swamp People used .22s to kill the gators, because they left smaller bullet holes. They were just using a heavier load both in bullet grain (weight) and charge. Probably using 36-40 grain bullets.



Considering most of the early firearms are basically muzzle-loaders, you can assume they are firing pretty big rounds, and the gunpowder charges behind them. In fact, going from the firearms rules:

30 bullets weigh 1/2 a pound, or 8 ounces *by themselves, not including the gunpowder charge*

each bullet is then approx .26 ounces.

.26 ounces, converted into grains, is 113.75 grains. For comparison, that would be comparable to a bullet from an AK-47 (112-120 grains) in terms of amount of metal being propelled.


But, honestly, that's real-worlding a fantasy game.

I don't believe that you should need to add DR and Penetration, because of what I mentioned before: unless you're going in a setting where everyone has advanced firearms, you're only going to be able to hit touch AC within 10 feet, maybe 20 if you have one of the fancy guns. You're basically going to get one free shot.

Well lack of rifling in a muzzle loader hurts its effectiveness quite a bit, but were getting into Catgirl territory here, which tends to have the side effect of being awkward to make rules for, so some kind of generalization about firearms and how they work is probably better from a playability standpoint.

[watchwood]

Deflect Arrows blocks 1 ranged attack per round. That includes bullets.

In a gunfight, dropping Prone would grant you a +4 bonus to your AC, and cover would add another +4 (which doubles to +8 for improved cover). Both of these should be available to almost anyone, making it quite easy for someone to jack their AC against gun attacks.