Gestalt Setting.

[StickMan]

I'm just wondering if there has been any talk of making a Gestalt setting. From all the DND boards I've been on Gestalt seems to be one of the most popular varents to the rules of all times, but due to the lack of Gestalt info in the gaming system there is a great deal of confusion on how to run it. It seems to me that it would be smart to come out with a setting that is basied in the Gestalt rules or at least a book on it. If you agree with me plz post so maybe wizards will listen.

First posted at http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?p=11349799#post11349799

[pestilenceawaits]

I haven't played a gestalt campaign yet but we have recently decided to and have rolled up some characters. It looks like a lot of fun.

[Lord Xaedien]

The biggest problem with Gestalt is the lack of support given by WoTC. There are better ways to balance the system, and it is a fun way to run a high powered campaign... but some help on various issues, such as: LA+, Challenge Rating, Multiclassing/prestige rules... everything has a bare bones explanation, but some gestalt love would be nice.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

What if I want a new source book as well as a new campaign setting?

And if they refuse, then by god, we have an obligation to make it ourselves!

[Darkshade]

I am running a gestahlt campaign right now and playing in two, since my group started playing gestahlt we have really seen no reason to go back.
Since Wizards has been unwilling to help I have had to build two Gestahlt Base Classes, I'm working on a 3rd, and I've built several Gestahlt prestige classes including a souped up Drunken Master and a War Wizard that combines Warmage and Warlock. We can totally do it ourselves, we should all get together and make a gestahlt campaign setting and core book of gestahlt base classes, more complete rules, Gestahlt Prestige Classes, and maybe even some "Gestahlt" Monsters, The Abberation/Construct or the Dragon/Outsider come to mind as possible methods of doing that.

[SpiderBrigade]

I hate to be that guy, but really. There is no H in gestalt.

[Galathir]

I DM'ed for a gestalt adventure and found it to be quite interesting. However, some of the rules are a bit complicated, especially with LA and racial hit die. Gestalt monsters, PRCs, and even items would make for an interesting book.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

We could all pitch in to make it and hand it to WotC, saying "Here you go. Free money!". They'd be insane not to take us up on it, and we'd get a gestalt campaign setting/source book out of the deal!

[Darkshade]

We could all pitch in to make it and hand it to WotC, saying "Here you go. Free money!". They'd be insane not to take us up on it, and we'd get a gestalt campaign setting/source book out of the deal!

what are you nuts? D20 is open source we should publish it ourselves, money for us :P

and for my previous post
*gestalt

there

[Dark Knight Renee]

I'd love to see a gestalt sourcebook. I don't know how I ever managed without gestalt. Oh wait, yes I do - in order to get what I wanted from a character, I had to multiclass at high character levels. With Gestalt I can play a class 8/class 8 character at level 8, as opposed to 16.

[ImperiousLeader]

I like Gestalt, but I don't see any reason for any source books for it.

[JaronK]

Yeah, I see no need for a whole book on the subject. Once you try it out it's really easy to use incorporate into anything else. Much as I love Gestalt games, I really don't think you need more than what already exists.

JaronK

[Darkshade]

Yeah, I see no need for a whole book on the subject. Once you try it out it's really easy to use incorporate into anything else. Much as I love Gestalt games, I really don't think you need more than what already exists.

JaronK

need?
NEED?
do you NEED 2000 new sorcerer/wizard spells?
do you NEED 200 new feats?
do you NEED 50 billion dollars???

[Scrubbed] we WANT THIS!

you dont play DnD because you need to man its a hobby, its a desire, its a want.
you dont need to sit at your computer 22 hours a day playing WoW, you WANT to.
We WANT a Gestalt source book.
we want it very very much

[StickMan]

what are you nuts? D20 is open source we should publish it ourselves, money for us :P

and for my previous post
*gestalt

there

I don't thing that gestalt is OGC.

[Winged One]

Yes, actually, it is. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm)

[mikeejimbo]

I don't thing that gestalt is OGC.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm

I think you're wrong.

Not sure, though. Maybe the SRD has been lying to us all this time.

Edit: Ninja'd! In the eye!

[Whamme]

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/gestaltCharacters.htm

[starwoof]

you dont need to sit at your computer 22 hours a day playing WoW, you WANT to.
Clearly you've never played WoW. You dont want to play it, you have to, otherwise you'll get the shakes.

A Gestalt sourcebook would be boss but... what exactly would go in it?

[Zincorium]

A Gestalt sourcebook would be boss but... what exactly would go in it?

I'm not thinking it needs to be very large, a softbound book would work fine, but at minimum it should have these things:

-The fractional BAB and save system as an integral part of the system.
-Full list of Prcs which do not work well in gestalt, so as to remove confusion.
-At least one way of working LA and racial hit dice into gestalt, keeping game balance and fun in mind.
-Special Prcs for Gestalt which only work in that kind of campaign.
-A guide on altering the CR and experience system for making the most of the gestalt style of play.
-Ideas and suggestions for how to handle gestalt characters story-wise.

[TroyXavier]

I'd love a gestalt source book. It was my favorite thing in UA. Some things really could use some more definition.

[Darkshade]

I am actually running a Gestalt campaign world right now and have created a few PrCs for it that take up both sides of the Gestalt characters advancement, which I call Gestalt PrCs, but that's not all. I have also created a few Gestalt Base Classes, It really is a neat way to go about it to, because its' taking up both sides you can put in at least average hit dice and decent skills and have good abilities, so far the gestalt base classes I've finished are designed in such a way that most people would reasonably want to just take them straight to level 20, I feel that that is an important difference between regular DnD and Gestalt when done right, you should be able to make base classes that are worth mastering.
Also I think Gestalt works very well with the advanced feat progression i put forth in the thread...
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32410
getting more class abilities and skills in conjunction with the slightly more feats just sort of completes the power level shift.

If I had more time and energy I would totally make this campaign world into a Gestalt Campaign Book and try to get it published.

[Saph]

Eh, I dunno. Gestalt characters are fun to design, but I don't think I'd like to actually play one. D&D characters are powerful enough as it is, adding gestalt as well just makes them silly.

- Saph

[Darkshade]

so then you've never played one?
don't jump to judge, in a well run campaign gestalt adds a whole new level to a lot of the aspects of the game, your preconceptions and metagame hunches about just what that guy in the corner in full plate mail is capable of can really get turned on its head. Opponents and PCs alike become more versatile and the options for character design explode.

[Yuki Akuma]

Eh, I dunno. Gestalt characters are fun to design, but I don't think I'd like to actually play one. D&D characters are powerful enough as it is, adding gestalt as well just makes them silly.

- Saph

The thing about gestalt characters is that, while they may look good on paper, many combinations just aren't very good.

Like the double-caster PrCs, really.

[Saph]

so then you've never played one?
don't jump to judge, in a well run campaign gestalt adds a whole new level to a lot of the aspects of the game, your preconceptions and metagame hunches about just what that guy in the corner in full plate mail is capable of can really get turned on its head. Opponents and PCs alike become more versatile and the options for character design explode.

But you can already design a character to do pretty much anything without gestalt. You just have to work a bit harder.

It also seems to me that a carefully built gestalt party is going to be good at absolutely everything - everyone will have full casting progression, lots of HP, good BAB, and good saves. This means that the DM will have to throw extremely nasty things at them to challenge them.

As for versatility . . . look, my 7th-level wizard has 25 spells a day, about fifty spells in her spellbook, a bunch of skills, racial abilities, some feats and resistances, ten potions, twenty scrolls, ten permanent or charged magic items of varying power, and a few nonmagical tricks on top of all that. I'm already at the point where it's as much as I can handle just to keep track of everything my character can do. Adding a second class on top of that would be a bit much.

- Saph

[Ramza00]

Saph remember the people your PCs go up against are also gestalt. They get alot better, it is more challenging, but its also more work for the DM to do.

[Yuki Akuma]

But you can already design a character to do pretty much anything without gestalt. You just have to work a bit harder.

It also seems to me that a carefully built gestalt party is going to be good at absolutely everything - everyone will have full casting progression, lots of HP, good BAB, and good saves. This means that the DM will have to throw extremely nasty things at them to challenge them.

As for versatility . . . look, my 7th-level wizard has 25 spells a day, about fifty spells in her spellbook, a bunch of skills, racial abilities, some feats and resistances, ten potions, twenty scrolls, ten permanent or charged magic items of varying power, and a few nonmagical tricks on top of all that. I'm already at the point where it's as much as I can handle just to keep track of everything my character can do. Adding a second class on top of that would be a bit much.

- Saph

How does your seventh-level character have that much money?!

:smalleek:

Is the rest of the party fourteenth level and you've been spending all your XP and gold on item crafting since level seven or something?

[Saph]

How does your seventh-level character have that much money?!

Most of the items are low level. A 1st-level scroll only costs 12.5 gp to make, a 1st-level wand 375gp. The GM also rolls random treasure, so we tend to pick up a lot of semi-useless arcane items that I end up carrying (I'm still trying to figure out what I'm going to use that scroll of owl's wisdom or potion of cure paralysis for). Then I like making low-level wondrous items, like a cloak of resistance, pearls of power, a headband of intellect . . . nothing I've got is worth more than 4K market price, but they do add up.

So the idea of keeping track of another set of spells and class features on top of all that makes my head spin a bit.

- Saph

[Dark]

Would a gestalt setting also have gestalt monsters? Say, a race of minotaurs that all have 6 gestalt racial/rogue hit dice.

[Ted_Stryker]

One thing a Gestalt source book really needs is pregenerated Gestalt NPCs and monsters, probably in addition to CR guidelines if the DM chooses to use non-Gestalt monsters. It's a lot of work to crank out those Gestalt critters, if you go that route.

[JaronK]

Would a gestalt setting also have gestalt monsters? Say, a race of minotaurs that all have 6 gestalt racial/rogue hit dice.

Not always I'd imagine. When I run Gestalt games, my setting has it that about 1 person in 100 is Gestalt. However, it's very rare that both sides are useful and PC classes. For example, in the last encounter, the party met a Gestalt Warrior//Expert. He was level 2, and he was the head of his village militia, as well as the blacksmith. He was rather well to do, but not that special. Likewise, some Gestalts are things like Commoner//Expert, or Rogue//Expert, or other less useful things. What makes the PCs so special is that they're Gestalts with PC classes on both sides, and usually in more effective combinations.

That said, often the NPCs that rise to prominence in the setting are also Gestalt, so the boss fights are usually against Gestalt characters. This means that every once in a while you run into something like a Ogre//Rogue.

JaronK

[Closet_Skeleton]

I hear that quite a few DMs use Gestalt villains against non-gestalt PCs.

I always thought an interesting Gestalt would be where everyone had to choose the same second class.

As for Gestalt Prcs, Arcane Trickster and True Necromancer need special Gestalt versions since they're similar to Mystic Theurge but have some unique abilities.

Gestalt Paladin/Sorcerer, where synergy goes above common sense.

[Rama_Lei]

I always thought an interesting Gestalt would be where everyone had to choose the same second class.

So like, everyone is born with magic, and they're all sorcerers.

[StickMan]

I always thought an interesting Gestalt would be where everyone had to choose the same second class.

That would be good if your PCs were part of like the military or some other unit.

[Ramza00]

So like, everyone is born with magic, and they're all sorcerers.
Or are all clerics and work for some church?

[StickMan]

So would anyone like to try to make a Gestalt setting just for fun? Its somthing that I have been wanting to do but no one I know realy knows enough about DND or Gestalt for that matter to realy help me with it.

[The_Snark]

Or are all clerics and work for some church?

Or are all members of the assassin's guild, and have to have levels in the prestige class. There was one of those here on the boards, but it died before starting.

[Darkshade]

I will continue my work undaunted by naysayers (especially ones who have never even actually played it!) and who knows in ten years i may have finished my gestalt campaign setting, and as JaronK mentioned not everyone in the world is meant to be Gestalt, only about 20% of the population. I am also putting forth a version where you do not have to be born gestalt but there is a special "gift" that can be passed from one old adventurer to a new young hero, at the cost of the old ones life. possibly with some memory retention, sort of like err umm, i dunno all i can think of is demon knight. i know there is other similar material but i cannot think of it at this early hour.