Clerics Of Non D&D gods

[Teapot Salty]

Hey guys. (not quite sure which forum to post this thread) A buddy of mine made a cleric for a campaign that I'm going to run. He wanted to be a non-evil necromancer so I suggested Wee-Jas. Only problem is.... She didn't fit. So we discussed other gods of death (Hel and Hades among others) he chose Hades in the end. And I was wondering what you guys thought of the whole Idea. I like the concept of not restricting people to the D&D gods. What gods do you think would be good in a D&D setting? What would their domains be? I personally gave Hades: Death, Law, (decided he would be LN) Plant (The garden, this is easily the weakest one) and Destruction. And as always, go nuts.

[Slipperychicken]

Parts of the ancient greek, egyptian, and norse pantheons (and some others IIRC?) have 3rd edition stats (and thus 3.5 too because of the update) in Deities and Demigods. (EDIT: Confirmed. The book contains a chapter each for the "pharonic", "greek", and "asgardian" pantheons, and covers the major figures listed in each one).

You're not far off the mark from Hades: He grants the Death, Earth, and Evil domains. Also, he looks super badass in the illustration next to his entry.


I think Epic Level Handbook has some stats for non-D&D deities, but it's a very poorly-written book which helps render epic levels almost unplayably broken.

[Stoneback]

Try this: http://chet.kindredcircle.org/pdf/DnD3.5Index-Deities.pdf

It's only complete up thru 2007 I think but it has a zillion choices.

[Eldan]

The original D&D gods are just a handful among many. On Hallowed Ground has Greek, Egyptian, Indian, Greek, Babylonian, Sumerian, Chinese, Celtic, Norse, Finnish and more. Plus, many D&D gods are at least inspired by real world ones. Or just took osme names, like in the case of Illmatar, Mielikki or Tyr.

Hades should also have wealth and trade in his portfolio.

[Tengu_temp]

You're not far off the mark from Hades: He grants the Death, Earth, and Evil domains. Also, he looks super badass in the illustration next to his entry.

Oh come on. Hades is like the least evil Greek god out there! Talk about going with a pop culture image of someone.

The only pop culture Hadeses I accept are these guys:
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120719235936/disney/images/8/8d/219599_large.jpg
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120412031956/kidicarus/images/2/21/WikiHades.png

[Eldan]

Not sure about Evil. He certainly wasn't well-liked by his worshippers. But more for inevitability and unyieldingness than for actual evil, I'd say. So, lawful.

As for domains... death, earth and law are given. Maybe Repose instead of Death. Commerce or Wealth, maybe? He's not really a trade god, he's a god of valuable minerals, so Metal? Darkness fits too. Something like Fate or Destiny, perhaps?

[BWR]

The Rape of Persephone, anyone?
Granted, they mean 'abudcution' but still.

[Tengu_temp]

The Rape of Persephone, anyone?
Granted, they mean 'abudcution' but still.

Yes. And that's the only evil thing he did. In comparison to other Greek gods, this is nothing.

[Hytheter]

The Rape of Persephone, anyone?
Granted, they mean 'abudcution' but still.

A single rape? That's nothing on Zeus' rap sheet.

[Bit Fiend]

Hades should also have Waelth and Earth domains, since he was commonly associated with gems and other riches of the underground.

[BWR]

Yes. And that's the only evil thing he did. In comparison to other Greek gods, this is nothing.

True, but it does tip the scales ever so slightly towards evil, and I always did wonder why so many of the Greek gods are listed as 'good'.

[Tengu_temp]

Once again, pop culture image.

[Millennium]

Oh come on. Hades is like the least evil Greek god out there! Talk about going with a pop culture image of someone.
The book actually tackles this, stating that although his alignment is Evil, he's not particularly malevolent.

What pushes him over the line is his incredible sternness: his orderly mindset pulls him toward Law, but even Law can recognize and accommodate the need for occasional change. Hades does not: he would probably think of Wee Jas -the freaking Stern Lady- as a dirty hippie for her occasional willingness to be flexible. Hades does not bend, ever, and this can make him oppressive at times. That pushes him into Evil, but not out of malevolence: The Natural Order Must Be Maintained, and that's all there really is to it.

This fits the myths. When Orpheus traveled to the underworld to beg for his wife Eurydice's release, his music moved very nearly every being (and some inanimate objects) who heard it, up to and including most of the gods he encountered, but Hades himself held firm. It was only a personal intercession from his own wife, Persephone, that persuaded him to yield Eurydice up, and then only on condition of completing a task he knew would be impossible (though Orpheus almost managed it anyway).

[HeadlessMermaid]

I personally gave Hades: Death, Law, (decided he would be LN) Plant (The garden, this is easily the weakest one) and Destruction.

I think LN is fine for Hades. (Personally, I would never use anything that vaguely resembles Greek deities with anything that vaguely resembles alignment. But if you're simply using a couple of gods as an addition to the standard pantheon, eh, no biggie.)

For domains, it really depends on what fluff you're giving him. And that depends on what you're doing with cosmology and the afterlife. I mean, you just introduced a Lord of the Underworld in your setting. That poses some questions.

Would you give Hades a dominion (named conveniently "Hades") where all souls, or all human souls perhaps, go after death? And if so, what happens to the Seven Layers of Hell and Arcadia and all that? Are they still a thing, are there still Solars and Balors around? If you don't want to remake the entire D&D cosmology, maybe Hades is the Judge, and after his judgment the souls are sent to their final destination. If that's the case, Law and Inquisition (CDiv) would be very appropriate domains.

Or maybe you want to indulge the player, and imagine the dominion of Hades as just a dark place with walking skeletons. Domains: Darkness (FR, D&D), Undeath (FR). [If we were strict, Hades would have nothing to do with undead creatures. But we don't want to be strict, do we?]

Other appropriate domains are Dream (CDiv) and Oracle (CDiv), because in some versions the god sent oracles in dreams. Balance (PGtF, Und), for a truly Neutral god of the afterlife. Earth and Metal (PGtF) for a god of the underground. Destiny (RoD) and Repose (PGtF) could also fit. Oh all right, and Death, if you must. :smalltongue:

Just pick and choose what suits you better. :)

[Slipperychicken]

Oh come on. Hades is like the least evil Greek god out there! Talk about going with a pop culture image of someone.


I had him pegged as LN for sure when I was looking him up. Even the fluff they put in his entry doesn't strike me as evil. I feel like the writers made him evil just because they wanted to fill a quota, and ruling the underworld makes him an easy target.

The D&D alignment system's immaturity is one reason that I would love to scrap it entirely. Also, I think it's completely inappropriate for the greek cosmology (or really any cosmology which isn't defined by such simplistic dualism as D&D alignments assume).

[123456789blaaa]

The book actually tackles this, stating that although his alignment is Evil, he's not particularly malevolent.

What pushes him over the line is his incredible sternness: his orderly mindset pulls him toward Law, but even Law can recognize and accommodate the need for occasional change. Hades does not: he would probably think of Wee Jas -the freaking Stern Lady- as a dirty hippie for her occasional willingness to be flexible. Hades does not bend, ever, and this can make him oppressive at times. That pushes him into Evil, but not out of malevolence: The Natural Order Must Be Maintained, and that's all there really is to it.

This fits the myths. When Orpheus traveled to the underworld to beg for his wife Eurydice's release, his music moved very nearly every being (and some inanimate objects) who heard it, up to and including most of the gods he encountered, but Hades himself held firm. It was only a personal intercession from his own wife, Persephone, that persuaded him to yield Eurydice up, and then only on condition of completing a task he knew would be impossible (though Orpheus almost managed it anyway).

Why are modrons LN instead of LE then? :smallconfused:

Really, a lot of the alignments given to the greek gods are incorrect. Gods can reside in planes that don't share their alignment anyways so I don't see the problem with making say, Zeus evil but having him reside in Arborea because he likes it.

[LibraryOgre]

Hey guys. (not quite sure which forum to post this thread) A buddy of mine made a cleric for a campaign that I'm going to run. He wanted to be a non-evil necromancer so I suggested Wee-Jas. Only problem is.... She didn't fit. So we discussed other gods of death (Hel and Hades among others) he chose Hades in the end. And I was wondering what you guys thought of the whole Idea. I like the concept of not restricting people to the D&D gods. What gods do you think would be good in a D&D setting? What would their domains be? I personally gave Hades: Death, Law, (decided he would be LN) Plant (The garden, this is easily the weakest one) and Destruction. And as always, go nuts.

A lot of real-world deities were statted up in Deities and Demigods, as mentioned. Heck, the "D&D Gods" are just a subset of the gods of the World of Greyhawk.

[Jay R]

The original D&D gods are just a handful among many.

Actually, the original D&D gods are the gods of Egyptian, Indian, Greek, Celtic, Norse, Finnish, Hyborean, Melnibonean, Incan, and Chinese. These all appeared in Gods, Demi-Gods & Heroes, published in 1976 for original D&D.

The gods were not given alignments in that book. (While Arioch is mentioned in the text as a God of Chaos, there is still no alignment in the stat block.)

The D&D-invented gods came later.

The platinum dragon and the chromatic dragon are actually introduced earlier, in Greyhawk (also 1976), but they are not named, and they are not gods. They are the Dragon King and the Dragon Queen.

[manyslayer]

For a non-evil necromantic deity, Libris Mortis has Evening Glory, Neutral goddess of love, beauty, and immortality. She has the domains of Charm, Magic, and Protection (note the table on pg 15 does not match the text but Chaos and Good for a true neutral deity doesn't seem to fit and text trumps table). She teaches that true love is immortal so to keep one's love alive, embrace undeath.

I played a priest of her recently and just advertised myself as a priest of a love goddess (no one knew who Evening Glory was). The other player's reaction was priceless when I rebuked undead and took control of them instead of turning them.

[Honest Tiefling]

The actual god would be mired in so much of the culture (See kidnapping a young girl and giving her 'seeds') as well of the very nature of the underworld and a commonly held belief of might makes right that I suggest not using the Greek god.

Instead, take what you like from the concept and make your OWN god of the underworld. Your setting, after all.

As for the domains, don't do plant. He's not a lifegiver. What I would do instead is make a LN (Since your player doesn't want evil) god of Wealth and Death. (Hades is also referred to as the rich one). As for the undeath, maybe he's cool with it as long as its only his faithful doing it to nasty folks who deserved it anyway, and used the gifts to add to the glory and wealth of Hades.

You could even try to put Wee Jas into Zeus' place (and given HIS rap sheet, I cannot recommend using him) and have that Wee Jas somehow gained something Hades wanted, and Hades resents her for it and is constantly trying to get it back and one up her. Not kill, just one up.

[RedMage125]

Hades should also have wealth and trade in his portfolio.
Agreed. On wealth, at least. Trade, not so much. Hades was not a god of commerce, but WAS a god of wealth.

Oh come on. Hades is like the least evil Greek god out there! Talk about going with a pop culture image of someone.

The only pop culture Hadeses I accept are these guys:
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120719235936/disney/images/8/8d/219599_large.jpg
http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20120412031956/kidicarus/images/2/21/WikiHades.png
I hate even those images. I detest so many of the pop culture depictions of Hades, from Disney's Hercules to the new Clash/Wrath of the Titans to the 1st Percy Jackson movie.

Things that have done it right:
-Hercules and the Underworld (one of the 5 Kevin Sorbo mini-movies that led up the TV show Hercules:TLJ), where Hades just looked like a regular dude in a toga with a laurel wreath atop his head, and made a deal with Hercules to let his wife go IF Herc could get Cerebus back to his post (which he doubted, since all of Hades' best men were on the job)
-The Percy Jackson books. Rick Riordan knows his Greek Mythology, and does a great job. In the 1st book, for example, Hades DID take Percy's mother, but not because he wanted the lightning bolt to start a war with the gods, but because he was pissed because something was stolen from him, too (the invisibility cap), and thought-like everyone else-that Percy was the thief.

Not sure about Evil. He certainly wasn't well-liked by his worshippers. But more for inevitability and unyieldingness than for actual evil, I'd say. So, lawful.

As for domains... death, earth and law are given. Maybe Repose instead of Death. Commerce or Wealth, maybe? He's not really a trade god, he's a god of valuable minerals, so Metal? Darkness fits too. Something like Fate or Destiny, perhaps?
I disagree on Fate, only the Fates themselves (and maybe Apollo, as the god of Prophecy) shoudl have that.

Death...maybe, since he is the god of the dead. But since he's kind of jealous and greedy, he may not be a fan of use of undead, since, ina way, they steal from his kingdom. I think, however, that unless you are getting detailed enough to introduce Thanatos (the actual Greek god of death), that Hades should get the Death domain by virtue of no other deity granting it.

The Rape of Persephone, anyone?
Granted, they mean 'abudcution' but still.

Yes. And that's the only evil thing he did. In comparison to other Greek gods, this is nothing.

Does anyone else but me remember that that was Eros' (and by extension Aphrodite's) fault? Aphrodite was pissed at Hades, and had her son shoot him with an arrow to FORCE him to love Persephone. Having little to no social skills and not really up to par on wooing anyone, he kidnapped her, which is in keeping with his MO on aquiring the souls for his realm.

I maintain that since he was genuinely in love with her and didn't know any better on how to go about it, the abduction of Persephone should be a little more forgivable. And there's no indication that she doesn't return his affection on at least some level. In the the myth I remember as a child, once he had her in the UNderworld, Hades did everything he could to impress her/win her over, including giving her jewelry, letting her stay exclusively in all the nice parts of the Afterlife, and once Demeter petitioned the other gods to intervene, he was willing to let her go back to her mother, save that she made the mistake of eating a few pomegranite seeds, partially binding her to his realm, which was out of Hades' control.

As an aside, I also hate how the Percy Jackson movie depicted Persephone, as some kind of jaded, hateful (insert word that rhymes with "bore") who resented Hades and had all kinds of boy-toys on the side. Rick Riordan's books didn't portray her like that, nor has any Greek Mythology story of which I am aware. Hades is her husband, not her jailer.


I had him pegged as LN for sure when I was looking him up. Even the fluff they put in his entry doesn't strike me as evil. I feel like the writers made him evil just because they wanted to fill a quota, and ruling the underworld makes him an easy target.
Exactly. And not just for D&D (see my above rant).


The D&D alignment system's immaturity is one reason that I would love to scrap it entirely. Also, I think it's completely inappropriate for the greek cosmology (or really any cosmology which isn't defined by such simplistic dualism as D&D alignments assume).
I think you're allowing a dislike of alignment to cloud your judgement. This isn't alignment's fault. The alignment system works fine, once you accept the basic premise that in the default D&D world, Good&Evil are objective forces. It also helps to understand that alignment is not an absolute barometer of action or affiliation.

The blame here is with the writers of Deities and Demigods, who wanted to have a Greek Pantheon available for use in D&D, and wanted to equate the more popular gods as "Good".

A strict adherance to the source material would leave very few gods as "Good" in alignment. Most of the Olympian Pantheon of gods are petty, cruel, and selfish.
Hestia, for sure would be Good.
Demeter as well. The advent of winter was a side effect of her grief, as opposed to an intentional act of anger.
Apollo...maybe Chaotic Good the handful of bad things he does are usually pretty excusable. Chasing the nymph despite her objections was because of Eros (I'm pretty solidly of the opinion that an Arrow of Love from Eros is a major mind-influencing effect, and partially excuses the behavior of those under its influence), killing Orion was out of a devotion to protecting his sister (and sometimes even Good people will do bad things to protect family, don't think that's enough to qualify him as Neutral).
Hephaestus doesn't really seem to have anything to show for Good or Evil. He may very well be Good, but his lack of conviction either way would have me place him as Neutral.
Athena's a tough one. In a lot of ways Good, and yet...Arachne, the Apple of Discord, Medusa...she's got a lot of her father's selfish, pettiness in her.
Zeus, Hera, Hermes, Aphrodite, Artemis, Poseidon, Dionysus...all due to their selfishness are Neutral AT BEST. Each shows enough benevolence, I think, to stay out of Evil. But their all so focused on themselves, and quick to anger towards anyone who offends their pride, that I don't think any one of the is Good.
Ares is about the only clearly EVIL one in the "Big 14" list of deities.

Some of the minor deities should be evil, Hecate, Nemesis, Eris, etc.
Some of them might even be good, like Iris, Nike, and so on.

[HeadlessMermaid]

I think you're allowing a dislike of alignment to cloud your judgement. This isn't alignment's fault. The alignment system works fine, once you accept the basic premise that in the default D&D world, Good&Evil are objective forces.

A premise that you should never ever accept in a Greek setting. The Greeks want their gods beyond good and evil (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192107). (Self-plug to a variant I've made. Not just a pantheon, it's a different approach altogether. The quote in the introduction is there to explain why said approach is alignment-free. Though again, for the OP's purposes, using Hades and making him LN is perfectly fine.)

The basic problem isn't that it's difficult to assign alignments to each god, or that too many end up Evil if you do it by the rules. It's that the "objective cosmic forces" part simply doesn't fit. There are NO such forces in the mythology. You have the gods themselves, and you have Fate, and you have a vague divine law that's basically a set of taboos. It prohibits incest and hubris and stuff, but it has absolutely nothing to say on the subject of being good to one another. Of "protecting innocent life". Of "altruism, respect for life, and a concern for the dignity of sentient beings". Of "making personal sacrifices to help others". [quotes from the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/description.htm#goodVsEvil)]

If you shoehorn these gods to a duality that's simply not there, you miss the entire point of using such a pantheon in the first place. You lose the essence. The thing that makes the setting tick, and be something different than just another Greyhawk ripoff.

...IMO.

P.S. No, seriously, all of the above is IMO. If you use the pantheon with alignment (Deities & Demigods version or your own), and enjoy it, yay for you. :smallsmile:

[RedMage125]

A premise that you should never ever accept in a Greek setting. The Greeks want their gods beyond good and evil (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192107). (Self-plug to a variant I've made. Not just a pantheon, it's a different approach altogether. The quote in the introduction is there to explain why said approach is alignment-free. Though again, for the OP's purposes, using Hades and making him LN is perfectly fine.)

The basic problem isn't that it's difficult to assign alignments to each god, or that too many end up Evil if you do it by the rules. It's that the "objective cosmic forces" part simply doesn't fit. There are NO such forces in the mythology. You have the gods themselves, and you have Fate, and you have a vague divine law that's basically a set of taboos. It prohibits incest and hubris and stuff, but it has absolutely nothing to say on the subject of being good to one another. Of "protecting innocent life". Of "altruism, respect for life, and a concern for the dignity of sentient beings". Of "making personal sacrifices to help others". [quotes from the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/description.htm#goodVsEvil)]

If you shoehorn these gods to a duality that's simply not there, you miss the entire point of using such a pantheon in the first place. You lose the essence. The thing that makes the setting tick, and be something different than just another Greyhawk ripoff.

...IMO.

P.S. No, seriously, all of the above is IMO. If you use the pantheon with alignment (Deities & Demigods version or your own), and enjoy it, yay for you. :smallsmile:

I agree with your "Greek Pantheon and D&D-Objective-Alignment don't mix" premise.

Which is why I said that the blame lies with the developers of Deities and Demigods who tried to force the members of the Olympian Pantheon into Good/Evil alignments, even though it is not at all cohesive with the source mythology. They make Zeus Good just because he's popular and cool, completely ignoring the fact that he's probably one of the most selfish of the whole bunch.

My assessment that followed was an attempt to match them into a D&D alignment based more accurately on how they are protrayed in mythology. Not because I feel they need labels like "Good/Evil" for their mythology uses, but because if they were to be used in a D&D game, they would need alignments (assuming the DM is not adopting some kind of "get rid of alignment" houserule), simply because of how divine classes interact with seities and alignments themselves. And The Olympian Pantheon is pretty popular, I've heard of a lot of people who use them in their games instead of D&D gods, because they are more familiar with them.

[Agrippa]

Yes. And that's the only evil thing he did. In comparison to other Greek gods, this is nothing.

I see Hades as a poor miserable wretch outside the bounds of his netherworldly kingdom. Yes, Hades is the god of the dead and ruler of the Underworld, but mortals fear and often times loath him. His fellow gods, including his baby brother Zeus, love to screw around with him. The only ones who get it worse are Hephaestus and Prometheus. Even (http://www.theoi.com/Khthonios/Hekate.html) Hecate (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hecate) wasn't nearly as evil as now imagined.

[Honest Tiefling]

Keep in mind, being a poor miserable wretch meant that he deserved his fate in the eyes of many Greeks. Hephaestus suffered from the same view.

[Jay R]

I invented a cosmology that allows any PC to worship any god from any pantheon.

Here it is, spoilered for length:
There are two gods called together The Uncreated. Separately, they are The Lord and The Lady, and nothing is known about them.

Their first children were the sun, the earth, the oceans, and the winds. These four are either the creators of our world, or the stuff of which it was created - it's not clear which. They are, of course, the essence of the four earthly elements, the embodiment of the elemental planes, and the structure of the world. There is a fifth one, representing the quintessence, but since that cannot exist on our changeable and imperfect world, he/she has no influence here.

They have an abundance of names. The Sun God, for instance, is known as Apollo, Aten, Ra, Tonatiuh, Surya, Helios and many others. Similarly, every earth goddess is know to be the true earth, born of The Lord and The Lady - even those with known other parents, or those with no parents, like Gaea. Attempts to question the logic of this are met with the sacred chant, " Hakuna heigh-ho fragilistic bibbidy chim-cheree," which has been variously translated as, "It is not wise to question these mysteries, which are beyond the knowledge of our world," or "Die, you heathen scum, die!" In practice, there is no significant difference between the two translations.

The children/creations of these four are the only gods who will answer prayers or interact with the world directly. They include all the pantheons that have ever existed.

Except Lovecraft.

The Lord and The Lady have been identified as the embodiments of Good and Evil, or Law and Chaos, or Male and Female, or Light and Darkness, or any other opposing concepts.

Wars have been fought between those who believe they represent Good and Evil, and those who insist on Law and Chaos.

Wars have been fought between those who believe The Lord and The Lady hate each other with a hatred surpassing any passion on earth, and those who believe that they love each other with a love more true than any mortal could ever know.

Wars have been fought between those who know beyond all doubt that The Lord is Good and The Lady is Evil, and those who know beyond all doubt that The Lord is Evil and The Lady is Good.

All of the above is available knowledge to the players. Here is what they will not know.

No arcane or divine magic will successfully find out any fact about The Lord and The Lady. I have three answers, all completely true, and mutually incompatible.

1. The Lord is Fate, and The Lady is Luck. Neither can exist without the other, and each action in the world, from a sneeze to the fall of an empire, is a victory of one of them over the other.
2. They are Yin and Yang, and the heart of each beats in the breast of the other. They represent complementary, not opposing, forces. Each is in fact all of the universe except the other, but neither one represents any specific principle (not even male and female), and whichever one represents goodness in one situation might be the evil in another. Together, they represent wholeness and balance
3. They are the Creators - the mother and father of the world, which they birthed and/or created for some great purpose which is not yet fulfilled.

No mortal can comprehend the true nature of any god. Therefore the image, history, and culture of any god are the simple stories people tell themselves about the gods, to comfort themselves into believing they know something.

Do you believe that your god is a Norse, hammer-throwing warlike thunder god with a red beard? Then that's what you see in your visualizations, and those are the aspects that your god shows to you.

So do you create the gods by your belief, or does the god who most closely resembles your belief respond to your prayers in the form you expect, or are they merely your own hallucinations that always occur as a side effect when invoking divine magic? One wise sage, Chicxulub the Philosophical, actually asked this question. He is said to have discovered the true answer after sixty years of study, prayer, and meditation, on March 23, in the year 643.

Incidentally, the largest impact crater ever discovered is the Chicxulub crater, which appeared on March 23, in the year 643. (Many have entered this crater to explore it. None have returned.)

Oh yes, and the fifth child of The Lord and The Lady, representing the Fifth Element? It turns out that he's not the stuff of the heavens, but of the hells. His children and descendants are all the demons, devils, and daemons. His creations are the evil spirits of the underworld. No, he's not out to conquer the world or destroy it or anything of that sort. He just likes to see war, strife, and pain.

[Jeff the Green]

If you have to use D&D alignments, I'd make him LN, as others have said. For domains, I'd give him cavern (hades was accessible through caves), earth, law, repose (no undead creation), and wealth.

[commander panda]

A premise that you should never ever accept in a Greek setting. The Greeks want their gods beyond good and evil (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=192107). (Self-plug to a variant I've made. Not just a pantheon, it's a different approach altogether. The quote in the introduction is there to explain why said approach is alignment-free. Though again, for the OP's purposes, using Hades and making him LN is perfectly fine.)


i just want to tell you that you are an amazing human being. this is terrific and i want to use it.

[Coidzor]

Hades should also have Waelth and Earth domains, since he was commonly associated with gems and other riches of the underground.

Was that really Hades or just Pluto?

[HeadlessMermaid]

I agree with your "Greek Pantheon and D&D-Objective-Alignment don't mix" premise.

Which is why I said that the blame lies with the developers of Deities and Demigods who tried to force the members of the Olympian Pantheon into Good/Evil alignments, even though it is not at all cohesive with the source mythology. [...]
I agree with everything you said, though I have some minor quibbles about some individual alignments you've assigned (and which I won't argue, because it would spectacularly defeat my point :smalltongue:).

I guess our only difference is that ditching alignment is a big deal for you (at least from what I gather), while for me that houserule is simply my standard MO, and I don't think twice about it. I've already addressed the complications in the rules, and everyone in the group is fine with it.

The biggest advantage of tabletop is that everyone gets to play the game the way that suits them best. :)


i just want to tell you that you are an amazing human being. this is terrific and i want to use it.
Aw, thanks.


Was that really Hades or just Pluto?
They're the same. Basically.

Pluto in Greek was a newer name for Hades (the deity, not the underworld itself), and it's derived from the word for "wealth". It's not entirely clear if the name stuck as a euphemism, or because by that time he was already associated with wealth from mining or simply agriculture. But it was definitely the same god.

The actual god of wealth, Plutus, was more a vague personification than a god with a personality and tales about his deeds and all that. And he had nothing to do with the Underworld.

In the Roman pantheon, it's a bit more complicated, because Pluto was conflated/identified with Dis Pater and Orcus, but also conflated with Plutus, and by the end he was considered the god of the underworld AND wealth.


I invented a cosmology that allows any PC to worship any god from any pantheon.
That's brilliant. Just brilliant. Love it!

[RedMage125]

Hey guys. (not quite sure which forum to post this thread) A buddy of mine made a cleric for a campaign that I'm going to run. He wanted to be a non-evil necromancer so I suggested Wee-Jas. Only problem is.... She didn't fit. So we discussed other gods of death (Hel and Hades among others) he chose Hades in the end. And I was wondering what you guys thought of the whole Idea. I like the concept of not restricting people to the D&D gods. What gods do you think would be good in a D&D setting? What would their domains be? I personally gave Hades: Death, Law, (decided he would be LN) Plant (The garden, this is easily the weakest one) and Destruction. And as always, go nuts.

By the way, Wee Jas works pretty well.

Here's my thread on the subject. On page 2, I delved into the extended Dragon article on Wee Jas from Dragon 350.

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=335215

[Eldan]

Actually, the original D&D gods are the gods of Egyptian, Indian, Greek, Celtic, Norse, Finnish, Hyborean, Melnibonean, Incan, and Chinese. These all appeared in Gods, Demi-Gods & Heroes, published in 1976 for original D&D.

"Original" as in "invented by", not "first".

[Hangwind]

@RedMage
Wait, I'm going to need a citation on the whole "shot by an arrow from Eros" thing. Admittedly, it's been a while, but I don't remember anything like that in the original legends for the Greek Gods.
Secondly, the pomegranate seeds were very intentional on Hades' part. THat the legends are very clear on.
Third, I would have to say that any "love" from Persephone to Hades is an Epic case of Stockholm Syndrome. (Sorry, don't remember if this one was you or someone else.)
Finally, Demeter very, very specifically knew what she was doing and purposefully cast the original curse on the land. Admittedly, the legend is fuzzier about whether the same is true of winter, but the original curse was intentional, not some sort of weird side effect of her grief.
Of course, the whole issue is muddied by the fact that the legends come from a culture where kidnapping a wife was just par for the course. The ancient world was not a kind place.