The Ardent and his known Powers

[topfpflanze]

Well... hello eveybody,

I have the following problem. I'm making my first psionic character and I like the idea of the Ardent but I have problems wrapping my head around how he chooses his known powers. :smallconfused:

At Ardent 1 you get two 1 power point powers choosen from your two primary mantels that's clear and easy... but now my dilemma begins.

When you get your 2nd mantle at Ardent 2 you also get to choose another power. Does this power have to be from the new mantle?

And what happens when you take the Practiced Manifester feat and a couple multiclasses? Like class 1/ardent 1/class +1/ardent +1 with the Practiced Manifester feat.

At Ardent 1 I would take Vigor (Physical Might) and Dimension Hop (Freedom).

When I take my seconded Ardent level my effective manifester level is 4 can I now take the Natural World Mantle and the Metamorphosis power?
Because the Metamorphosis power is level 4 in the Natural World Mantle?
Although I can't use Metamorphosis because I need to be able to pay 7 power points to activate it, which I need a manifester level of 7?

Thanks in advance for any kind of help.

P.S.: English isn't my native language so please have mercy on my grammar.

[Ansem]

I think you misunderstand the difference between CL/ML for effect and ACL/AML for your spells/powers.

[TuggyNE]

When I take my seconded Ardent level my effective manifester level is 4 can I now take the Natural World Mantle and the Metamorphosis power?
Because the Metamorphosis power is level 4 in the Natural World Mantle?

You can only take powers that can be manifested at ML 4, which is 2nd-level powers and below. Power level and manifester level are two quite different things.

[papr_weezl8472]

The manifester level needed to learn an Ardent power is not the same as the power's level. To learn an Ardent power, you need at least the minimum manifester level to manifest it, which is the same as its power point cost.

(Note that the Ardent is the only class that works this exact way. Other psionic classes, as well as the spellcasting classes, have tables indicating at what class level they can learn and manifest/cast powers/spells of that level, so just having the manifester/caster level is not enough for these classes; for those you need to have that many levels in the actual class, or a prestige class that advances manifesting/spellcasting.)

[Vaz]

Well... hello eveybody,

I have the following problem. I'm making my first psionic character and I like the idea of the Ardent but I have problems wrapping my head around how he chooses his known powers. :smallconfused:

At Ardent 1 you get two 1 power point powers choosen from your two primary mantels that's clear and easy... but now my dilemma begins.

When you get your 2nd mantle at Ardent 2 you also get to choose another power. Does this power have to be from the new mantle?

No. You do not have to take a power from the new mantle. You can take one from your existing primary mantles. The only requisite is that your first two powers are 1st level (1pp) powers, and that your powers chosen from Secondary Mantles do not outnumber those from the Primary Powers (so a 5th level Ardent has 2 Primary Mantles, and 2 Secondary Mantles.

For example, 1st level, you choose Power 1 from Primary 1, and Power 2 from Primary 2. At 2nd level, you choose a Secondary mantle, and can then select either a power that you can manifest from it (still only a 1pp power), or stick with another power you can manifest from one of your Primary Mantles. If you select from your secondary mantle, at 3rd level, you MUST choose one from your Primary Mantle that you can manifest, because you cannot have more Secondary powers known than Primary. At 4th level, if you chose a Secondary Mantle power at level 2, you must now choose a power from the other secondary.

1st level; Pri1; 1, Pri2; 1
2nd level; Pri1; 1, Pri2; 1, Sec1; 1
3rd level; Pri1; 2, Pri2; 1, Sec1; 1
4th level; Pri1; 2, Pri2; 2, Sec1; 1
5th level; Pri1; 2, Pri2; 2, Sec1; 2, Sec2; 0 -or- Pri1; 2, Pri2; 2, Sec1; 1, Sec 2, 1 -or- Pri1; 3, Pri2; 2, Sec1; 2, Sec2; 0

I hope that make sense?


And what happens when you take the Practiced Manifester feat and a couple multiclasses? Like class 1/ardent 1/class +1/ardent +1 with the Practiced Manifester feat.
The 1st level of ardent requires 1st level powers (1pp powers). Practised Manifester is capped at your HD, to a maximum of ML+4; so an Ardent 2/Fighter 4/Ardent +1 would have a ML of 7 with Practised Manifester. Your 3rd level of Ardent taken at ECL7 would allow you to select powers up to the maximum you can Manifest; and as you can manifest up to your Maximum ML worth of PP, you can select any power with a PP cost of 7 or less.

As stated the power in the mantle is lowest known; certain Prestige Classes require the ability to manifester X level powers; some powers have different levels according to whichever class they're a part of, the given power is so that your Ardent has a RAW defined level for Power Level.

Note that Power Level is seperate from Manifester Level; an Ardent requires your Manifester Level to be capable of Manifesting the power, there is no need to check the power level at all outside of ensuring that the powers at 1st level.

[topfpflanze]

The manifester level needed to learn an Ardent power is not the same as the power's level. To learn an Ardent power, you need at least the minimum manifester level to manifest it, which is the same as its power point cost.

(Note that the Ardent is the only class that works this exact way. Other psionic classes, as well as the spellcasting classes, have tables indicating at what class level they can learn and manifest/cast powers/spells of that level, so just having the manifester/caster level is not enough for these classes; for those you need to have that many levels in the actual class, or a prestige class that advances manifesting/spellcasting.)

Thank you all for your quick answers. Okay makes sense. But what do the numbers beside the Mantle powers mean?
Because that's what threw me off. Beside the Metamorphosis power is a 4 so I thought you need to have a Ardent Manifester Level of 4 to get it?

[Segev]

Thank you all for your quick answers. Okay makes sense. But what do the numbers beside the Mantle powers mean?
Because that's what threw me off. Beside the Metamorphosis power is a 4 so I thought you need to have a Ardent Manifester Level of 4 to get it?

Nope. It's a level 4 power. Level 4 powers typically cost 7 pp to manifest, so you have to be a level 7 manifester as an Ardent before you can learn that power as an Ardent.