I want to be THAT guy.

[sjeshin]

I want to build THAT wizard. I have 10 levels, all books that say 3.5 except for tomb of battle. I want my wizard to be the most broken over powered shenanigans using thing that people will complain about for years... But for good reason.
In my group, we have the above mentioned rules for character creation. No matter how much I talk and argue with my GM that melees can't really keep up with casters at higher levels at all, and that it would be fun to include tomb of battle he wont. I built a wizard that could do about 1500 dmg that can't be spell resisted / saved against a turn, and could even be divided about some 16 ways... And he is considering banning the leap attack / shock trooper feats.
Before I get all of the, "talk with your gm don't do this." replies, he wants me to show him my most rediculous wizard, against his "horror story" tomb of battle builds. So, can anyone give me some good resources? I usually play cleric or druid.

[Fouredged Sword]

This sounds like a good Gish solution. Pick one that looses no caster levels, so you stay as wizardly as posible while putting the party fighter to shame.

Human
Wizard 6 / Rauthar(sp?) 3 / Abjurant Champion 5

It blooms at 11th level unfortunatly, but use greater luminous armor and shield to be untouchable and wield a longsword two handed for powerattack fun. Back it up with battlefield control spells that are melee friendly.

[Crake]

I want to build THAT wizard. I have 10 levels, all books that say 3.5 except for tomb of battle. I want my wizard to be the most broken over powered shenanigans using thing that people will complain about for years... But for good reason.
In my group, we have the above mentioned rules for character creation. No matter how much I talk and argue with my GM that melees can't really keep up with casters at higher levels at all, and that it would be fun to include tomb of battle he wont. I built a wizard that could do about 1500 dmg that can't be spell resisted / saved against a turn, and could even be divided about some 16 ways... And he is considering banning the leap attack / shock trooper feats.
Before I get all of the, "talk with your gm don't do this." replies, he wants me to show him my most rediculous wizard, against his "horror story" tomb of battle builds. So, can anyone give me some good resources? I usually play cleric or druid.

WELL, if all shenannigans are on the table... go chameleon, get level 9 spells, win game?

To explain what I mean: If you get earth spell, sanctum spell, snowcasting, versatile spellcaster and heighten spell you can cast a spell who's effective spell level is 4 levels higher than that which you are able to cast. Thus it means when you pick up the feat "extra slot" you can get a slot 3 levels higher than you can normally cast. When you combine that with the Chameleon's floating bonus feat, what you can do is get extra slot 6th at level 8 (with the bonus feat) then at level 9 pick up extra slot 9th, and hey presto, you have 9th level spells at level 9. Now you can dark chaos shuffle away all those useless feats (except for one, to maintain the pre-requisite for extra slot, or you'll lose it, i suggest sanctum or snowcasting, as they are standalone feats).

But yeah, at that point, just cast astral projection so he cant kill you, then go to town with whatever 9th level spells you want, since chameleon can use it's floating bonus feat to get extra spell for their spellbooks 1/day at no cost to themselves. I recommend combining that with a level in wizard before entering chameleon for an eidetic spellbook that you can do that with.

[Drogorn]

If you're trying to make a point, use a core-only wizard. Polymorph, dispel magic, greater invisibility, and enervation should be enough to put any melee character in its place, even if they're using magic items to fly.

[Werephilosopher]

Elven Generalist Wizard (RotW) for more spell slots. Dip Ur-Priest to get divine spells and Rebuke Undead for fueling DMM, go through with Mystic Theurge. Is it the most optimized build? No. Is it able to whip out tons of spells for every occasion? Yes. That should drive the point home that you are able to do practically anything you set yourself to with magic.

[Doc_Maynot]

If all sources are on the table, why not make a StP Erudite?

[Crake]

If you're trying to make a point, use a core-only wizard. Polymorph, dispel magic, greater invisibility, and enervation should be enough to put any melee character in its place, even if they're using magic items to fly.

IHS being weaker than the wizard :smalltongue:

But on a serious note, IHS would get rid of quite a few debuffs, so probably don't bother with things like enervation. Save or die/save or suck are typically countered by the concentration as a save counters. So just go the no-save-just-suck route, like ray of stupidity or shivering touch. Get one of his scores to 0 then just coup de grace

Edit: Or just go magic missile mage with stupid amounts of metamagic and just splat his face with way too many magic missiles that give negative levels each

[Drogorn]

IHS being weaker than the wizard :smalltongue:

If the DM pulls that sort of nonsense, OP should do Pun-Pun.

[Vrock_Summoner]

I'm surprised nobody mentioned Incantatrix. If you use it for anything other than its specific intended use with Abjurations, it breaks reality.

Now, if you're more used to Druids and Clerics as you said, the answer is simple. Planar Shepherd. Get into that ASAP. Look up a handbook for it; long story short, it lets you make a planar bubble, and with the right chosen planar traits you can get 10 actions per round. Plus, it's y'know, Druid. So you can still do the usual Druid-y thing too. Two words, Venomfire and Fleshraker. Make your animal companion more powerful and versatile than ALL the uberchargers.

For an alternate approach, just show him how good a magical character's defenses are. The ubercharger doesn't matter if you have shenanigans to act on his turn or always go first and leave the range from which he can hurt you. Point out that he, as DM, can always use these defenses if the mundanes get out of hand. Assuming this doesn't turn him from bad DM to worse DM, this makes the game more tactics-oriented as the strategy to winning battles is maneuvering opponents into ubercharging range.

Digest these ideas as you wish.

[Morbis Meh]

build this grey elf elven generalist 2/binder 1/anima mage 7 (you can get it earlier with other shenanigans but I prefer this more legit way). You get free meta magic twice a day for whatever you want (you should be able to end the battle in two rounds), gain an extra level 5 spell slot basically whatever floats your boat. Bind Balam/ Astaroth (Diabolous) or Teneberous and laugh all the way to victory. Focus on conjuration spells (he can't IHS away solid/acid fog) throw in black tentacles for lulz and prepare other fun traps as you kill his warblade slowly.

[OverdrivePrime]

You'll get a lot more points if you just go without any splatbook help. As much as I love the warblade, it's just too easy for a maximum strength mage to squash anything but another maximum strength mage.

Regardless, you can expect your Tome of Battle opponent to have plenty of anti-caster defense to negate rays and spells with saves. He'll probably focus on Diamond Mind and Iron Heart maneuvers and should have a concentration check up around 25+. He'd be insane not to make liberal use of Wall of Blades (deflects any targeted attack, including rays, with an opposed attack roll), Moment of Perfect Mind (concentration check instead of will save), and the ever-glorious Iron Heart Surge! He might be packing Action Before Thought (to replace reflex saves with concentration checks) as well, but probably not Mind over Body because a Warblade's fortitude save is good enough as is.

There's a good chance he'll have blindsense out to 30 feet thanks to his Hearing the Air stance, and unless he's a fool, he'll have an item that gives him flight. Dispel that if it's bothering you.

Your greatest ally in a fight with a warblade is action economy. He can't use swift actions and immediate actions in the same round, nor can he use two immediate actions or two swifts in the same round. He can't use the same maneuver in consecutive rounds without spending a standard action (a melee attack) to recover it. So hit him hard from the same direction, round after round!

I don't play arcane heavies often, but here's what I'd probably try:

As soon as you can, hit him with an irritating mid-level debuff like Bestow Curse (go for Lose an action 50% - you might get lucky). This will draw out Iron Heart Surge, because it's really the most fun thing in the world to use. The round after he uses Iron Heart surge is when you activate your trap card (http://global3.memecdn.com/you-just-activated-my-trap-card_o_2026031.jpg).
With Quicken Spell, you can cherry tap him with a lightweight ray spell like Ray of Enfeeblement. He's likely use Wall of Blades to block it. With WoB out of the way, hit him hard with another targeted spell, like a sudden maximized (plus empowered if you have practical metamagic) enervation, to hit him with 4 (or 6) negative levels.

Next round he'll probably use his standard action+swift action to recover his maneuvers. Follow up with another quickened debuff ray (to draw WOB) and another practical metamagic empowered enervation, or some other pair of crippling spells. If you're hammering him with negative levels (either through enervation, fell drain, or summoned shadows)

Depending on how your group rules how negative levels affect martial initiators (is the "a spellcaster loses one spell or spell slot from his or her highest available level" line applicable?) you could shut down his ability to use Iron Heart Surge. (If he loses maneuvers instead of spells, he could be down to 1 Iron Heart spell. Iron Heart Surge requires the wielder to know at least one other Iron Heart maneuver.) If he loses Iron Heart Surge, just politely ask him to surrender. If he refuses, debuff him into a drooling sack of paste.

(Fell Drain) Scorching Ray is your friend as well. Since you'll be rolling with a caster level of at least 12 (you will, right?), You're doing at least 8d6 to him, more if you empower, since he can only block one of those rays in a round with WoB.

[Urpriest]

He's unlikely to be all that great at grappling. If you can get past Wall of Blades with the initial touch attack (as mentioned, using a Quickened spell to get through it would work) then getting some means to Summon as a standard action and dropping a grappler on him would keep him pinned down long enough to finish him off with other means.

[Fouredged Sword]

Don't be too sure to count on that though. If I was a mundane character fighting a spellcaster, I would invest in planer touchstone (CoE) for the travel domain. Freedom of movement for 10 rounds sounds like enough to finish the fight one way or another, and solves a LOT of the melee's problems.

[Vhaidara]

As another of the 1001 solutions, just make a pure summoner and absolutely swarm him under with minions.

[Irk]

Why not just do the level 9 spells at level one trick detailed here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10197586&postcount=9)?

[Snowbluff]

If the DM pulls that sort of nonsense, OP should do Pun-Pun.

You don't know what you're talking about. :smalltongue:

Speaking of which, IHS can't be used when you can't move. Hold person, hope he's Iron Heart focused and not into Diamond Mind.

Also, you can easily have ninth level spells. Elven Generalist Domain Wizard. I think the combo was Versatile Spellcaster and Magical Training. Not sure.

EDIT: Oh, that last bit was ninjaed.

Just cast Greater Invisibility.

Or use Divine Power to enter Abjurant Champion early.

Or spam MMed orbs of something. Maybe Incantatrix and Ocular spell?

[Metahuman1]

Build to win Initiative. Familiar, Improved Initiative feat, Warning eager sling bullet in your had at the start of combat, maybe a ring of initiative and slippers of battle dancing, and of course immediate action for Neverskitter.


Have a set of Craft Contingent Spells drop Know Defense (Spell Compendium.), Dimensional Anchor, Anti Magic Field, Dimension Door and Fly. Your now WAY the crap out of his reach, forcing him to be a real Mundane deprived of vertical movement that isn't jumping (which keeps you out of his reach.), and you know his AC, Saves, SR, HP, DR and other defenses he has.

Then just be prepared for what ever. Will Save kinda Puny? Attack that? Good will and fort saves, summon critters to swarm and eat him and buff them with things like Shivering Touch.

[docnessuno]

I want to build THAT wizard. I have 10 levels, all books that say 3.5 except for tomb of battle. I want my wizard to be the most broken over powered shenanigans using thing that people will complain about for years...

Play Pun-Pun
/Thread

[Vhaidara]

Pun-Pun is too infamous and overbroken. Also, does Pun-Pun actually require you to be a caster? I thought it had been determined you just needed +(number) to Knowledge (I believe Planes) so that you can summon Pazuzu.

[The Glyphstone]

Play Pun-Pun
/Thread

The best Pun-Pun is a Paladin, not a Wizard.

[Snowbluff]

Pun-Pun is too infamous and overbroken. Also, does Pun-Pun actually require you to be a caster? I thought it had been determined you just needed +(number) to Knowledge (I believe Planes) so that you can summon Pazuzu.


The best Pun-Pun is a Paladin, not a Wizard.

I'm thirding this complaint. Don't do it.

[docnessuno]

Pun-Pun is too infamous and overbroken. Also, does Pun-Pun actually require you to be a caster? I thought it had been determined you just needed +(number) to Knowledge (I believe Planes) so that you can summon Pazuzu.

- The OP specifically asked for "the most broken over powered shenanigans".
- The only listed sourcebook limitation is "No ToB".
- Pun-Pun does not use ToB and is fully doable within the other limitations.
- Pun-Pun is "the most broken over powered shenanigans" of 3.5.

Ergo: every other suggestion is moot.

[Snowbluff]

- The OP specifically asked for "the most broken over powered shenanigans".
- The only listed sourcebook limitation is "No ToB".
- Pun-Pun does not use ToB and is fully doable within the other limitations.
- Pun-Pun is "the most broken over powered shenanigans" of 3.5.

Ergo: every other suggestion is moot.

He said Wizard. Pun Pun is not a wizard. Ergo, your logic is misplaced.

[Captnq]

Ah... where did I put that...

HERE (http://www.uploadmb.com/dw.php?id=1380336827).

Skip to the end, look at the Magic Addict Build. You'll be casting 5th level spells at 8th level. It has everything you need to make the most disgusting Mystic Ranger build I could think of.

Then get the EVD from my sig file, look at the spell section. That should cover everything you need.

[docnessuno]

He said Wizard. Pun Pun is not a wizard. Ergo, your logic is misplaced.

Pun-Pun initial form CAN be a wizard.

Pun-Pun final form IS a wizard. as well as a cleric. As well as a Tarrascue. As well as everything else.

[Snowbluff]

Pun-Pun initial form CAN be a wizard.

Pun-Pun final form IS a wizard. as well as a cleric. As well as a Tarrascue. As well as everything else.

He was a Psion, and was later changed to Paladin when Pazuzu was a thing. There's a name and a reason. Without any Wizard levels, you aren't actually a wizard, either.

[Forrestfire]

The original Pun-Pun actually was a wizard, though. Divine Minion Wizard 1/Master of Many Forms 3.

[Snowbluff]

The original Pun-Pun actually was a wizard, though. Divine Minion Wizard 1/Master of Many Forms 3.

I stand corrected... wait... didn't the original Pun Pun predate that material? :smallconfused:

[docnessuno]

I stand corrected... wait... didn't the original Pun Pun predate that material? :smallconfused:

As far as i remember it used Kobold age tricks and dragon rules to qualify for epic feats early and get access to epic shapechanging options to get the whole build started.

[Urpriest]

As far as i remember it used Kobold age tricks and dragon rules to qualify for epic feats early and get access to epic shapechanging options to get the whole build started.

No, Pun Pun has nothing to do with Dragonwrought, and epic doesn't add anything to shapechanging that makes it easier.

The "original" Pun-Pun was an Egoist, with the mention that a Wizard could also do it at higher level. The most famous Pun-Pun was aforementioned Divine Minion Wizard/MoMF (where Wizard was needed for the Snake Familiar). The last Pun-Pun was the Paladin one.

[Snowbluff]

As far as i remember it used Kobold age tricks and dragon rules to qualify for epic feats early and get access to epic shapechanging options to get the whole build started.

I thought it was Psion 14 with Metamorphic Transfer.

EDIT: Ur Priest verified this with his ninja skills.

[docnessuno]

No, Pun Pun has nothing to do with Dragonwrought, and epic doesn't add anything to shapechanging that makes it easier.

The "original" Pun-Pun was an Egoist, with the mention that a Wizard could also do it at higher level. The most famous Pun-Pun was aforementioned Divine Minion Wizard/MoMF (where Wizard was needed for the Snake Familiar). The last Pun-Pun was the Paladin one.

Weird, i really remember one of the first Pun-Pun builds relying on early-access epic feats (and being a Kobold ofc).

[Rakaydos]

Flight, dispel magic, and a Reserve feat. You can go all day? So can I.

[Snowbluff]

Weird, i really remember one of the first Pun-Pun builds relying on early-access epic feats (and being a Kobold ofc).

I think it's possible. I have my own one. Yuan-Ti Tainted One, level 14, with Supernatural Transformation. All builds lead to Pun Pun. :smalltongue:

You might be misconstruing the purpose of the Kobold component. As I understand it, Kobold are Scale-kind, and therefore alterable by Sarrukh.

Yay, history lessons? XD

[Barmoz]

Build to win Initiative. Familiar, Improved Initiative feat, Warning eager sling bullet in your had at the start of combat, maybe a ring of initiative and slippers of battle dancing, and of course immediate action for Neverskitter.


Have a set of Craft Contingent Spells drop Know Defense (Spell Compendium.), Dimensional Anchor, Anti Magic Field, Dimension Door and Fly. Your now WAY the crap out of his reach, forcing him to be a real Mundane deprived of vertical movement that isn't jumping (which keeps you out of his reach.), and you know his AC, Saves, SR, HP, DR and other defenses he has.

Then just be prepared for what ever. Will Save kinda Puny? Attack that? Good will and fort saves, summon critters to swarm and eat him and buff them with things like Shivering Touch.

This or some version of this. You're not just trying to win via optimization tricks, you want a legitimate playable character that makes your point. And like another poster said, familiarize yourself with ToB features and be ready for them.

[Metahuman1]

This or some version of this. You're not just trying to win via optimization tricks, you want a legitimate playable character that makes your point. And like another poster said, familiarize yourself with ToB features and be ready for them.

Or hell, in that case, just win Initiative and hit him with know Defense and have a Contingency teleport or Word or Recall or something teleport you back home now that you know his defenses and then just Rest and prepare spells/Buff Yourself/Summon Allies at your leisure. Or just Cast Spells at him While Scrying. A Couple of Greater Dispel Magics and then Something nasty that targets a Will/Fort save that he will want to use any counters he has on that you've prepared with Quicken Spell, followed by a standard/Full round action finisher targeting that will save. Repeat several times if needed to get him to roll not high and kill him/make him your minion and THEN kill him. You don't even have to stay and fight him, your gone with everything you need before he even managed to get close enough to attack/get a shot off with a ranged weapon. And now, he's got no way to attack you and you've got all the time in the world to go shooting fish in a barrel, where he's the fish!

[Rakaydos]

Alternatively, play an Enchanter, and throw a town at him. While he's killing them, show a political athority how dangerous this man is, and diplomance them into declaring war on him.

Procede to tie the DM's campain setting in knots without ever engaging the ToB warrior at all.

After all, isnt that what Tier 1 is about?

[Metahuman1]

Alternatively, play an Enchanter, and throw a town at him. While he's killing them, show a political athority how dangerous this man is, and diplomance them into declaring war on him.

Procede to tie the DM's campain setting in knots without ever engaging the ToB warrior at all.

After all, isnt that what Tier 1 is about?


Afterwords, Plane Shift to your privet Demi-plane that can't be accessed by anyone but you and use Scry to watch the show in comfort as he tries to find you while almost all the world is hunting him.

[CIDE]

You should be able to do it with a 1-10 Wizard with basic spell/feat selection and appropriate WBL equipment which obviously includes contingencies and such. I second keeping to core only to make the point stick. I wish certain DM's of mine would be willing to do the Caster vs "nightmare TOB Build" match up to prove the point as well.

[Forrestfire]

No, Pun Pun has nothing to do with Dragonwrought, and epic doesn't add anything to shapechanging that makes it easier.

The "original" Pun-Pun was an Egoist, with the mention that a Wizard could also do it at higher level. The most famous Pun-Pun was aforementioned Divine Minion Wizard/MoMF (where Wizard was needed for the Snake Familiar). The last Pun-Pun was the Paladin one.

Thanks for the correction, I'd totally misremembered.

[Drogorn]

You should be able to do it with a 1-10 Wizard with basic spell/feat selection and appropriate WBL equipment which obviously includes contingencies and such. I second keeping to core only to make the point stick. I wish certain DM's of mine would be willing to do the Caster vs "nightmare TOB Build" match up to prove the point as well.

This is basically what I was getting at. What you really need to prove here is that 3.5 is fundamentally unbalanced. The best way to do that is to take that complete free reign you have, tell him you ignored it, and beat the challenge easily anyway.

[One Step Two]

Core only:

Buffs: Invisibility and Fly

Solid fog, prepare it twice. When he Iron Heart Surges out of the first one. Drop the other. Use scorching rays to finish the job.

The ToB Helps Melee alot, but at the end of the day Solid fog stops them cold.

[Metahuman1]

Core only:

Buffs: Invisibility and Fly

Solid fog, prepare it twice. When he Iron Heart Surges out of the first one. Drop the other. Use scorching rays to finish the job.

The ToB Helps Melee alot, but at the end of the day Solid fog stops them cold.

Until he recovers his maneuvers.

Now, Summon Something with reach and a nasty attack routine and have it ready an action to full attack when he Iron heart Surges it, and have a Wand of Solid Fog..... That could get Nasty, particularly coupled with like a quickened ranged touch attack spell like Scorching Ray and then a follow up of disintegrate after you've seriously hurt his HP total.

[Piggy Knowles]

Core only:

Buffs: Invisibility and Fly

Solid fog, prepare it twice. When he Iron Heart Surges out of the first one. Drop the other. Use scorching rays to finish the job.

The ToB Helps Melee alot, but at the end of the day Solid fog stops them cold.

Solid Fog obscures vision. You can't make ranged attacks if you don't have line of sight. You'll have to find something other than Scorching Ray to finish him off.

[One Step Two]

Until he recovers his maneuvers.

Now, Summon Something with reach and a nasty attack routine and have it ready an action to full attack when he Iron heart Surges it, and have a Wand of Solid Fog..... That could get Nasty, particularly coupled with like a quickened ranged touch attack spell like Scorching Ray and then a follow up of disintegrate after you've seriously hurt his HP total.

Ah, yes you're right, I've been playing a wizard in my current campaign for too long, my ToB-fu is weak.

Also, depending on preperation time, Use Lesser Planar Bindings, before the battle, a pair of Lovely maidens wishes the Good Hero luck and offers him kisses, the Succubi engage him immediately after he is drained, and open with a solid fog. Bonus points if you have them pre-buffed with Freedom of movement.

[Metahuman1]

And then when you've put him in Solid fog, summon a Feindish Hydra just outside his reach but inside the Hydra;s and have it ready an action to full attack with the trigger of the solid fog goes away, do this several times and let him get torn up with level loose and HP Loss, then if he;s Still Up, Contengency Disentagrate, Quickened Something with an unpleasent fort save, ideally a save or die, then follow through with a regular disentigrate. Thats three shots in one round using attack rolls and targeting fort/hp defenses, after the latter is all but gone, and with him only having at best two counters he can muster.


Or here;s an idea, Hire an NPC Warrior of the Warblades Level, and Drop a metric tone of buffs on him. Polymoprh Any Object/shape Change him into a Titan and throw on Stone Skin, stat boosting spells, Haste, displacement, Mirrors image, ext.

[(Un)Inspired]

Build to win Initiative. Familiar, Improved Initiative feat, Warning eager sling bullet in your had at the start of combat, maybe a ring of initiative and slippers of battle dancing, and of course immediate action for Neverskitter.


Have a set of Craft Contingent Spells drop Know Defense (Spell Compendium.), Dimensional Anchor, Anti Magic Field, Dimension Door and Fly. Your now WAY the crap out of his reach, forcing him to be a real Mundane deprived of vertical movement that isn't jumping (which keeps you out of his reach.), and you know his AC, Saves, SR, HP, DR and other defenses he has.

Then just be prepared for what ever. Will Save kinda Puny? Attack that? Good will and fort saves, summon critters to swarm and eat him and buff them with things like Shivering Touch.

This is the way to go. Don't use anything like pun-pun because the real battle isn't between a wizard and a warblade; it's between the op and manifested willful ignorance. Don't give him the option of saying that you only won by using TO tricks.

Use Contingency and crafted contingent spells and celerity to ruin him in terms of action economy. Honestly? Use a scroll of Disjunction on the first round of combat. Contingency fly up in the air and just hang out and watch him hop about impotently for about ten rounds.

Then, if he still doesn't want to surrender, give him a double tap (to avoid his little parry moves) of quickened enfeeble ray and empowered shivering touch.

Have additional shivering touches contingencied to go off when you cast the first one.

Repeat until his paralyzed and without any magic items.

Coup-de-Grace him.
Slowly
Over and over again with a dagger

Edit: Every time you coup-de-grace him say the name of one of the maneuvers he knows just to taunt him as he lays there.

"Ruby Nightmare Blade" *stab
"Avalanche of Blades" *stab
"Finishing Move" *stab

[malonkey1]

Coup-de-Grace him.
Slowly
Over and over again with a dagger

In the butt.

[atomicwaffle]

To make fighters more powerful, i suspect your DM will load him up with numerous magical items

Disjunction.

If he has no magic items:

Rust Ray.

Slow really bushwhacks fighters.

Dominate

Geas/Quest

Just cast fly and pee on him.

and most of these are lower level spells!

[Theomniadept]

One of my favorites is the Focused Conjurer Wizard. Grey Elf helps with save DCs on your spells, the Rapid Summoning Unearthed Arcana variant gets your guys on the field faster, Cloudy Conjuration feat allow you to basically cast a minor defensive cloud every time you summon, Summon Elemental reserve feat allows you to effectively use infinite tiny earth elementals to trigger any and all traps.

Toss in Abjurant Champion for shenanigans and some Transmutation Polymorph to effectively do everything ever and have no weaknesses and the ability to do every classes jobs better than they can.

And when the DM sends the king's entire army to kill you, teleport away and continually use Planar Binding to get yourself better extraplanar mooks.

[sjeshin]

Why not just do the level 9 spells at level one trick detailed here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10197586&postcount=9)?

Because it does not actually work. Versatile spellcaster only allows you to cast higher spells you know. You do not know your domain spells until you can cast them, thus you can not use it in the way he suggests. RAW is shenanigans sometimes, this is just illiteracy.

[Eldan]

I'd say go vanilla. You can make your point much more effectively if you build a straight, core-only wizard without any massive cheese and still squash everything.

[Snowbluff]

Because it does not actually work. Versatile spellcaster only allows you to cast higher spells you know. You do not know your domain spells until you can cast them, thus you can not use it in the way he suggests. RAW is shenanigans sometimes, this is just illiteracy.
So, when can you cast a spell? Since you never have the ability to cast a spell once you can cast a spell of that level, when can you cast these spells?

Add Heighten Spell, and I don't think I need to finish this post.

[sjeshin]

WELL, if all shenannigans are on the table... go chameleon, get level 9 spells, win game?

To explain what I mean: If you get earth spell, sanctum spell, snowcasting, versatile spellcaster and heighten spell you can cast a spell who's effective spell level is 4 levels higher than that which you are able to cast. Thus it means when you pick up the feat "extra slot" you can get a slot 3 levels higher than you can normally cast. When you combine that with the Chameleon's floating bonus feat, what you can do is get extra slot 6th at level 8 (with the bonus feat) then at level 9 pick up extra slot 9th, and hey presto, you have 9th level spells at level 9. Now you can dark chaos shuffle away all those useless feats (except for one, to maintain the pre-requisite for extra slot, or you'll lose it, i suggest sanctum or snowcasting, as they are standalone feats).

But yeah, at that point, just cast astral projection so he cant kill you, then go to town with whatever 9th level spells you want, since chameleon can use it's floating bonus feat to get extra spell for their spellbooks 1/day at no cost to themselves. I recommend combining that with a level in wizard before entering chameleon for an eidetic spellbook that you can do that with.

I'm a little shaky on whether this works raw or not, but mostly i'm not sure HOW it works. Extra spell / slot only let you take spells one less than you can currently cast. I think i see how this works to obtain 8th lvl spells and slots, but how do you get the 9th level spells / slots, and what is dark chaos shuffle? This is by far the most interesting reply i've gotten so far. If I could just get more details about this it would be great.

[Invader]

I was always a fan of greater mirror image. It's wonderful for its simplicity plus it's an immediate action. Make him fight nine of you.

[HaikenEdge]

My brain tells me Rainbow Warsnake, for something relatively simple, yet very powerful.

[sjeshin]

So, when can you cast a spell? Since you never have the ability to cast a spell once you can cast a spell of that level, when can you cast these spells?

Add Heighten Spell, and I don't think I need to finish this post.

You are missing the point. You don't know the spell "heightened fireball". You know the spell fireball. At lvl say, 10 like in my post, trasnmutation domain, you know the domain spells as soon as you can cast them (which ordinarily is because you gained a new level which allows you . The strongest spell I know from my domain is baleful polymorph. Versatile spellcaster does not allow me to cast disintegrate because I do not know that spell. Snow / earth / sanctum spell feats interact with extra spell slot and extra spell feats in ways that could by raw allow higher spell slots at early levels, but versatile spellcaster doesn't enable you to cast any higher level spells.

[Alcibiades]

Using RAW shenanigans is besides the point anyway - full casters aren't broken because the complexities of their mechanics leaves a lot of loopholes to abuse, they're broken by design.

The Logic Ninja and Treantmonk have written good extensive wizard handbooks that should help you on your way.

[Snowbluff]

You are missing the point. You don't know the spell "heightened fireball". You know the spell fireball. At lvl say, 10 like in my post, trasnmutation domain, you know the domain spells as soon as you can cast them (which ordinarily is because you gained a new level which allows you . The strongest spell I know from my domain is baleful polymorph. Versatile spellcaster does not allow me to cast disintegrate because I do not know that spell. Snow / earth / sanctum spell feats interact with extra spell slot and extra spell feats in ways that could by raw allow higher spell slots at early levels, but versatile spellcaster doesn't enable you to cast any higher level spells.

No, you're missing the point. The initial premise on your complaint is wrong, because that's the same way spells work. I could cast third level spells out of my third level slots if I knew any, and so I learn my third level domain spell. I could cast third level spells by subsuming second level slots. Ergo I could I can, and if I can I learn.

Also, Fireball is a spell I know, and it happens to be heightened. It's more iffy, though, but less iffy on the slot qualification.

[Chronos]

I'll third the suggestion to just use core-only, to prove the point.

And save-or-suck spells should work just fine. Yes, he can use Diamond Mind counters, but you can literally throw out four times as many saving throws than he can counter: You toss one spell at him, he counters it, then you toss a quickened one, then his next turn he can't refresh maneuvers yet because his immediate action used up his swift, then you throw another two spells with the same save at him, then he finally gets a chance to refresh.

And yes, he can use Iron Heart Surge, but there are so many things that IHS doesn't work on that it's a joke.

[Shining Wrath]

Until he recovers his maneuvers.

Now, Summon Something with reach and a nasty attack routine and have it ready an action to full attack when he Iron heart Surges it, and have a Wand of Solid Fog..... That could get Nasty, particularly coupled with like a quickened ranged touch attack spell like Scorching Ray and then a follow up of disintegrate after you've seriously hurt his HP total.

You can't recover your maneuvers unless you can make an attack, or a standard action which includes a flourish in the air.

In other words, an immobilized Warblade can't get IHS back.

[Metahuman1]

True, but that requires you to first beat his defenses to immobilize him. Why do that when you can force him to first spend all his time just trying to hang in there and not die, THEN go through the trouble of killing his defenses.

[Snowbluff]

IHS works against a bunch of spells. I suggest hitting him with CC like Hold Person, since soft CC like Entangle/Web he can dispel.

[Krobar]

You should have seen one of our players laugh because a sorcerer his barbarian slapped around was mad at him. He laughed until he was hit by a Reach Spell, Maximized, Empowered, Shivering Touch, draining 27 points of dexterity with no save.



And this isn't even a shenanigan.