Best lvl 4 Spell for Spell Storing?

[unseenmage]

I have 20 advanced huge Shield Guardians (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/shieldGuardian.htm) and just realized they can each store one 4th level spell apiece.

What's the cheesiest level 4 (or even level 5 Sanctum Spell-ed) spell to put in them?

(If it matters they're being carried around in an Enveloping Pit (MIC) so they're always accessible.)

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I'd go with (Split Ray, Maximized, Twinned, Repeat) Enervation for five of them, and various Orb of Energy spells with metamagic piled on for the rest.

[unseenmage]

I'd go with (Split Ray, Maximized, Twinned, Repeat) Enervation for five of them, and various Orb of Energy spells with metamagic piled on for the rest.

Now I was under the impression that Metamagic Feats increased the spell level. Is this not so?

[bekeleven]

Now I was under the impression that Metamagic Feats increased the spell level. Is this not so?

Biff tends to assume that high levels of optimization are implicit when answering requests. Whatever you do, don't ask him for a simple melee build!

[unseenmage]

Biff tends to assume that high levels of optimization are implicit when answering requests. Whatever you do, don't ask him for a simple melee build!

Oh yeah... I forgot about Divine Metamagic.
It's one of those things that's just so cheesey that I forget it's a real thing.

Not that I mind. Might break my DM though. He's already busy wrapping his head around War Spells. :smallbiggrin:

But I did ask for "cheesiest" didn't I? :smallsmile:
Keep 'em coming. Just bear with me if I don't follow exactly.

My apologies Biffoniacus_Furiou for not catching on sooner.

[illyahr]

I'd go with (Split Ray, Maximized, Twinned, Repeat) Enervation for five of them, and various Orb of Energy spells with metamagic piled on for the rest.

You realize that that's a 16th-level spell, right?

[Dusk Eclipse]

Strictly speaking unless you use Heighten spell, metamagic'd spells still count as their original level for effects based on spell level (like Lesser Glove of Invulnerability) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/globeOfInvulnerabilityLesser.htm).

Relevant Rules

Spells modified by a metamagic feat use a spell slot higher than normal. This does not change the level of the spell, so the DC for saving throws against it does not go up.

Emphasis mine.

[unseenmage]

Strictly speaking unless you use Heighten spell, metamagic'd spells still count as their original level for effects based on spell level (like Lesser Glove of Invulnerability) (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/globeOfInvulnerabilityLesser.htm).

Relevant Rules


Emphasis mine.

Yeah but then spells being used ever becomes very little fun.
Imagine if every spell went off four times, for max damage, etc etc. And they're all Invisible.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I'm afraid I don't follow your reasoning, you asked for the "cheesiest" spell and Biff gave you just that, I simply explained why his plan works.

Eitherway Shivering Touch is a pretty good option even without metamagic.

[unseenmage]

I'm afraid I don't follow your reasoning, you asked for the "cheesiest" spell and Biff gave you just that, I simply explained why his plan works.

Eitherway Shivering Touch is a pretty good option even without metamagic.

Oh. No, not arguing that it's the best. I havn't a clue if it is or not, thus the thread.

I was just imagining a gameworld where every spell effect has all of the applicable Metamagics on it. All of the time. That's all.

I wonder what the CR bump would be to play in a gameworld like that.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Oh. No, not arguing that it's the best. I havn't a clue if it is or not, thus the thread.

I was just imagining a gameworld where every spell effect has all of the applicable Metamagics on it. All of the time. That's all.

I wonder what the CR bump would be to play in a gameworld like that.

Someone has to be able to cast the spell in question into the Shield Guardian for it to have that spell stored. Even if it (normally) takes a significantly high level spell slot to cast, the spell's actual level for purposes of whether it can be stored is unchanged unless you use Heighten Spell. A standard method of accomplishing those spells would be a combination of Arcane Thesis, +0 metamagics (Invisible, Sanctum, etc.), non-cost metamagic such as multiple instances of Easy Metamagic, and alternate-cost methods such as Incantatrix, Divine Metamagic/Naenhoon, etc.

Another (cheesy) spell to include would be Phantasmal Killer with Chain Spell and Irresistible Spell. That would be able to hit the primary target plus one secondary target per caster level. If they're not outright immune to the spell or any of its subtypes or have high enough SR to resist they'll be automatically killed, as Irresistible Spell removes any saving throws from the affected spell.

[unseenmage]

Someone has to be able to cast the spell in question into the Shield Guardian for it to have that spell stored. Even if it (normally) takes a significantly high level spell slot to cast, the spell's actual level for purposes of whether it can be stored is unchanged unless you use Heighten Spell. A standard method of accomplishing those spells would be a combination of Arcane Thesis, +0 metamagics (Invisible, Sanctum, etc.), non-cost metamagic such as multiple instances of Easy Metamagic, and alternate-cost methods such as Incantatrix, Divine Metamagic/Naenhoon, etc.

Another (cheesy) spell to include would be Phantasmal Killer with Chain Spell and Irresistible Spell. That would be able to hit the primary target plus one secondary target per caster level. If they're not outright immune to the spell or any of its subtypes or have high enough SR to resist they'll be automatically killed, as Irresistible Spell removes any saving throws from the affected spell.

So to hire an NPC spellcaster it would still be more expensive, but to buy a Scroll, Wand, or Staff one would be paying the original spell level?

Same goes for incorporating it into the Construction of a Magic item too right?
Especially a Runic Guardian or Spellsong Nightingale which could output the Metamagic-ed spell repeatedly?

No, wait... the Caster Level would still have to be higher. So the only points in the rules of exploit are points where Caster Level remains unmentioned as in Shield Guardians storing spells.

I think I've got it now. Maybe.

[Keld Denar]

I don't think Biff is quite right, because if you look at crafting magic items with metamagic in place (use (Greater) Circlet of Blasting as a reference), the spell slot level definitely plays a roll. Even things like the fact that you can make a wand if Empowered Magic Missile but not a wand of Empowered Fireball because the later is 5th level.

I guess there is precident either way, but you can't really say it is definitively one way or another.

[sleepyphoenixx]

It's pretty simple actually: Is the spell blocked by Globe of Invulnerability? The rules say yes, making it a 4th level spell. You can't have it both ways.
RAW have no bearing on your DM laughing at you and saying no though, so adjust your cheese level to match the campaign in question (as you should do with everything else).

[unseenmage]

Are there any spell combos you folks prefer?
I'm thinking that having any two of these Constructs affect the same target is going to be very possible.

Any spell combos that greatly benefit from Metamagic?