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View Full Version : [AD&D] Temple of Elemental Evil, GM advice wanted



Thom
2007-02-01, 12:26 PM
Hi there.

I am currently running my gaming buddies through the Temple of Elemental Evil using the original AD&D rules, and we are all having a lot of fun with it. I've reached a point in the game where I'd like to get some advice from the GM's out there who have run it before.

Basically I would like to make this the coolest game I've ever run, and I'd like to hear about all the nifty and cool things other GM's have done with this scenario. In addition I have some ideas for my campaign, that I'd like to get feedback from other GM's on.

Thanks all.
Thom

MrNexx
2007-02-01, 12:41 PM
First of all, it should go without saying that my players (Josh, Jonathan... pretty much anyone in Houston who play at Mark and Kris's apartment) need to stay out. We're running the same adventure, in the same system.


A few questions, first.

What point in the adventure are you at?

Are you using Unearthed Arcana?

What's your party composition like?

WampaX
2007-02-01, 12:41 PM
Just FYI, if any of your players has access to the ToEE Computer game, they basically have access to the module (all the maps are the same, and just about every encounter is similar, if not the same).

On the side of running it, no, I never got to run it or run on it. I did run the Return to the ToEE for 3.0 and do own the original (bought it for background and reference purposes for the Return).

What are the campaign ideas you've got?

Thom
2007-02-01, 02:24 PM
A few questions, first.

No problem, I was going to put this info in my first post but my lunch break was over. :D


What point in the adventure are you at?

We are currently approaching the denouement of the Moathouse. I'm going to post my adventure journal entries later, so that you can see what has gone on before.


Are you using Unearthed Arcana?

We are using UA, as well as the Dungeoneer's Survival Guide.


What's your party composition like?

The party is composed of a 1 Human M-U, 1 Human Rng, 1 Human Ftr, 1 Human Thf, 1 1/2 Elven Clr/M-U, and a 2 Dwarf Thf.

Currently the following has happened.


After clearing out the areas to the west of the double secret doors, the PCs survive the Ghouls and are in charge of the crypt. (In addition, I have changed the dungeon layout so that the crypt is some 30' or so below the level of the rest of the dungeon. Victims would be dropped into the crypt area and the PCs had to climb out.)

The PC's assault the hidden portion of the moathouse dungeon, run afoul one of the traps (which the thieves forgot to check for) and get the snot kicked out of them by the gnolls. The C/MU goes down to negatives in a retreat.

The MU manages to parley with the gnolls and strike a bargain with them. The PCs learn where the dungeon's master (Lareth) is and while the gnolls scarper, the MU and the dwarven thief accompany them in secret.

The remaining PC's retreat to the ghoul lair, as from what they know bugbears are coming after them and they are in no condition to fight.

The dwarven thief manages to kill a human guardsman, and they drag the corpse out of the dungeon. Quickly the dwarven thief hightails it back to Hommlet to fetch the watch and the major NPC's to the moathouse. This I determine will take 8 hours total (3 hours there, 3 hours back, and 2 hours mounting up the rescue.)

The MU dresses as the dead guardsman, bluffs the bugbears into continuing the search inside) and manages to make it back to the party.

The bugbears forced by Lareth to go down into the crypt discover that the ghouls are dead, but manage to miss the PCs. If the bugbears do an exhaustive search they will be found, but for the moment they are relatively safe.


Now Lareth's no idiot. He knows somebody fairly capable has made it into the dungeon, and has been slaying his pets. He doesn't know that there is a huge inbound force coming, but one of the spies for the Temple will make it back to the dungeon before the force arrives. He will be warned of their approach. In the meantime the adventurers are probably still there, and are his priority right now.

What do you think would be reasonable actions for him right now? Is there anything I can do for the party to help them that wouldn't smack of direct divine intervention. Or failing that, believable divine intervention that doesn't smack of deus ex machina.

MrNexx
2007-02-01, 03:34 PM
First of all, make sure that you buff up the NPCs to the same extent you've buffed the PCs... give them access to Weapon Specialization and Double Specialization if your players have it. If your players are making use of proficiencies, so should your NPCs.

Lareth, however, isn't an idiot. While he's not going to know about the huge inbound force, he is going to realize that he's got someone capable of taking out a sizable portion of his forces. Given the unlikelihood that he's got anything prepped to face these, I could see a retreat... a trapped retreat. Throw some bodies to the crayfish, animate some dead to keep up the watch (or carry some goods), and skedadle with the goods. Have the bugbears fight the delaying action while the PCs scratch their heads.

He can show up later, either nailed to a cross or fighting for position in the Temple.

Thom
2007-02-01, 06:25 PM
Just FYI, if any of your players has access to the ToEE Computer game, they basically have access to the module (all the maps are the same, and just about every encounter is similar, if not the same).

I have one player who's played the computer game, so far I haven't changed much and he's been playing dumb so to speak. Once the game moves on to Nulb, I plan to start making changes.


On the side of running it, no, I never got to run it or run on it. I did run the Return to the ToEE for 3.0 and do own the original (bought it for background and reference purposes for the Return).

What are the campaign ideas you've got?

Well some of the ideas that I've been toying around with...


Increase the Drow presence in the early game, possibly a side quest to destroy a small enclave. After all would Lareth a priest of Lolth really be here without some sort of backup or support structure.
Divine intervention on the part of the half-elf's god...Aerdrie Faenya. She's the only elemental Elven god, so I reason that she's got a stake in the fate of the Temple.
Keep the spies in the village hidden for now, though I am considering mounting an attack on Hommlet while their forces are split between the moathouse and the village.
Introduce the Golden Skull into the campaign early as possibly a quest of some sort.


That's the sort of thing I am considering, does anybody else have any other ideas I should consider?

henebry
2007-02-02, 09:16 AM
What's the module like in design? Is it a big dungeon-crawl, or is it a plotline with a series of encounters in the manner of more recent D&D modules?

I DM weekly for my son and a group of his friends, all ages 10-12. They're not great on roleplay. On the other hand, a lengthy dungeoncrawl can also be tough because we aren't able to cover much ground in 3-4 hours of play. And I'd love to find a product that would inspire a bit more roleplay, something where, periodically, they're forced to interact meaningfully with NPCs whose motives are hidden.

We're playing the 3.5 rules, so if anyone has a suggestion for a module I wouldn't have to convert from AD&D, that would be good too. But on the other hand, if TOEE is the bee's knees, I'm up to doing an off-the-cuff conversion.

Also, how does TOEE compare to the Return to the TOEE?

Thom
2007-02-02, 10:05 AM
What's the module like in design? Is it a big dungeon-crawl, or is it a plotline with a series of encounters in the manner of more recent D&D modules?

Hmm well it's spit into three parts. The first covers the Moathouse and the Dungeon. That is a crawl and not much plot. The second is the village of Nulb, which does have NPC play and interaction. The third and longest part of the module is the Temple itself...which is a very large dungeon...with an interdimensional jaunt as well.


I DM weekly for my son and a group of his friends, all ages 10-12. They're not great on roleplay. On the other hand, a lengthy dungeoncrawl can also be tough because we aren't able to cover much ground in 3-4 hours of play. And I'd love to find a product that would inspire a bit more roleplay, something where, periodically, they're forced to interact meaningfully with NPCs whose motives are hidden.

I'm afraid that ToEE may not be the product you are looking for for NPC interaction. There is some, but it is forced and usually limited to the village of Hommlet or Nulb.


We're playing the 3.5 rules, so if anyone has a suggestion for a module I wouldn't have to convert from AD&D, that would be good too. But on the other hand, if TOEE is the bee's knees, I'm up to doing an off-the-cuff conversion.

Also, how does TOEE compare to the Return to the TOEE?

Hmmm well it's been a while since I read Return, but not favorably IIRC. ToEE is no bones about a great first ed module, possibly one of the best. But it's a first edition module, and all that implies. Shallow NPCs, flimsy and sometimes self-contradictory history, and mostly an excuse to beat up a successive number of more powerful monsters and NPC's. RtToEE is a much bigger dungeon and a more consistent plot, though if what I read is correct completely made up from whole cloth. But it's a fun sequel.

Now if I might suggest to you the Sean K Reynold module 'The Star Cairns' as an excellent campaign module. It has a mystery to explore, NPC's to encounter, and a very satisfying feeling of exploration about it. It's 2nd ed AD&D but that shouldn't be to hard to convert to 3.5. I seem to remember I have some campaign notes scattered around here someplace about it.

twipper
2007-02-02, 10:20 AM
The biggest thing to remember, especially once they get to the Temple itself, is that the Temple is a dynamic entity. If at anytime the party has to leave the dungeon, it should be assumed that things will move back into areas they've already "cleaned out".

Also, the head bad guys on the lowest dungeon level are out to rebuild the Temple's armies. Use NPCs to try to lure the party or at least susceptable members to the Dark Side. While it doesn't work for every GM/Player dynamic, I really have no problem with party members going rogue (no pun, really). It allows them to do some fun side RPing, and it allows the rest of the party to turn he/she/it into a kabob when they find out.

And if the party is silly enough to break the ##### and release the name I shall not mention because I cannot spell it without looking at it, then they deserve to have their heads bashed in and their souls sent downstairs for a little enlightenment.

WampaX
2007-02-02, 11:32 AM
Well some of the ideas that I've been toying around with...

Increase the Drow presence in the early game, possibly a side quest to destroy a small enclave. After all would Lareth a priest of Lolth really be here without some sort of backup or support structure.
Divine intervention on the part of the half-elf's god...Aerdrie Faenya. She's the only elemental Elven god, so I reason that she's got a stake in the fate of the Temple.
Keep the spies in the village hidden for now, though I am considering mounting an attack on Hommlet while their forces are split between the moathouse and the village.
Introduce the Golden Skull into the campaign early as possibly a quest of some sort.
That's the sort of thing I am considering, does anybody else have any other ideas I should consider?

Considering that this was supposed to be able to flow into the A series and on into the GDQ series (specifically the compilation modules A1-4 Scourge of the Slave Lords and GDQ 1-7 Queen of the Spiders) , I would say that an increased Drow presence is a good way to go.

Also, if you have a first printing of ToE, like mine, there are some text errors where lines have just cut off mid sentence. If your Area 13 of Hommlet has "The shop is run by one Rannos Davl, who is bed..." you've got a first edition. Kind of frustrating, really as all the other editions are correct.

WampaX
2007-02-02, 11:52 AM
We're playing the 3.5 rules, so if anyone has a suggestion for a module I wouldn't have to convert from AD&D, that would be good too. But on the other hand, if TOEE is the bee's knees, I'm up to doing an off-the-cuff conversion.Not quite what you would be looking for, I'm afraid. If you are interesting in running Greyhawk conversion, you might try getting your hands on Slavers. Lots of NPCs to interact with, lots of places to visit, lots of things going on.

Or, if you don't want to do as much conversion work, I'd heartily recommend the current adventure path in Dungeon, Savage Tide. So far, it looks to be a fun ride and I can't wait to start running it after I get my group off of their mid-high trail of Baltron's Beacon, Return to White Plume Mountain, and Return to the Tomb of Horrors. Heck, I'll be happy to take a break from all that conversion work. :smallbiggrin:


Also, how does TOEE compare to the Return to the TOEE?Owning one and running the other . . . well, Return is much larger in scope than ToEE. By the end of it, both I and the party were getting tired of it, but the middle part was some of the most fun dungeon crawling I've been a part of. Having so many options of what the bad guys were doing to put a stop to the interlopers was very nice and I tailored several of the encounters based on their actions. But, by and large, its just too massive to maintain the plot.