Trying to come up with a shield/weapon

[lytokk]

so, in relation to my earlier thread about how to enchant shields as weapons, now I'm trying to come up with a great shield, with a couple of rules. It has to be suitable for shield bashing attacks, so no buckler and no tower shield. I'd really want the shield to stay a bludgeoning weapon, as it sticks more with the Captain America theme I have in my head, so no spikes or blades. Psionics aren't prevalent enough in my game right now to justify using any of the enchantments.

Other than that, I'm a little lost. Not sure on special materials, and the like. Adamantine is nice, but other than bypassing hardness and the HP of it, not worth it. Mithril would be great, if str was an issue. Cold iron or silver, very situational. Starmetal would be good, for that whole extra damage to outsiders, esp since it'll build off the cost of adamantine for armor even though its being used as a weapon (so slightly cheaper). Darkwood's an ehh, not a whole lot of point, with the exception of not being subject to rust monsters or electricity attacks. I know there's more special materials out there, and pretty much anything goes, so long as its not too obscure.

I'm not married to using a heavy shield either, but it's got to be something worth taking an exotic shield proficiency with, something a little more than an extra +1 to the shield bonus.

It will have a wand chamber built into it, since the wielder is a cleric, and keeping that wand of CLW at the ready is a must, or maybe a bulls str or something along those lines.

So far, on the defense enchantment side, I have +1 Bashing, and nothing...

On the weapon side, even less. Perhaps holy, since it would fit. Also getting the thing augmented with a lesser crystal of return is a must since it drops the re-appearing in your hand to a move action, as opposed to a standard or on the next turn (if I read that right), and it's important to always keep it in your hand, though I may just drop the whole shield throwing thing since its rather limited in use (and I think there's a cleric spell that sort of has the fluff, though I may be confusing D&D with WoW again). I may get the Called enchantment, just to make sure I never lose it.

So, that's it. A cleric of Pelor, with sort of a Captain America fluff. Perhaps a dip into crusader at some point, just to access some of the maneuvers and stances. Thoughts?

[Kane0]

Would bloodstorm blade help you at all?

[Captnq]

Battlecloak, Gnome 5 1 0 0% 1 No
Buckler 15 1 -1 5% 5 No
Buckler-Axe, Dwarven 20 1 -1 5% 4 Yes
Buckler, Beetle* 6600 1 -1 5% 5 No
Kappa Shell 30 ** -10 50% 45 No
Manople 35 1 1 5% 1 Yes
Sang Kauw 95 1 0 0% 10 Yes
Shield, Diamond 20 1 -1 5% 6 No
Shield, Extreme, Steel 30 3 -4 15% 25 No
Shield, Extreme, Wooden 10 3 -4 15% 15 No
Shield, Gauntlet 50 2 -2 35% 20 ?
Shield, Grasping 50 1 -1 5% 11 Yes
Shield, Heavy, Dragoncraft* 3000 2 0 15% 10 Yes
Shield, Heavy, Steel 20 2 -2 15% 15 Yes
Shield, Heavy, Wooden 7 2 -2 15% 10 Yes
Shield, Hide 30 3 -3 30% 30 No
Shield, Light, Dragoncraft* 1500 1 0 5% 5 Yes
Shield, Light, Steel 9 1 -1 5% 6 Yes
Shield, Light, Wooden 3 1 -1 5% 5 Yes
Shield, Rider’s 75 2 -2 15% 15 No
Shield, Stiletto 30 1 -1 5% 10 Yes
Shield, Tower 30 4 -10 50% 45 No
Shield, Tower, Steel 75 4 -10 50% 100 No
Tessen 12 1 -1 5% 1 Yes
Tortoise Blade, Gnome 10 1 -1 5% 3 Yes
Wagon, Sniper 100 3 -4 15% 40 No
Wagon, Standard 75 3 -4 15% 40 No

There's every shield. Have fun.

[lytokk]

Battlecloak, Gnome 5 1 0 0% 1 No
Buckler 15 1 -1 5% 5 No
Buckler-Axe, Dwarven 20 1 -1 5% 4 Yes
Buckler, Beetle* 6600 1 -1 5% 5 No
Kappa Shell 30 ** -10 50% 45 No
Manople 35 1 1 5% 1 Yes
Sang Kauw 95 1 0 0% 10 Yes
Shield, Diamond 20 1 -1 5% 6 No
Shield, Extreme, Steel 30 3 -4 15% 25 No
Shield, Extreme, Wooden 10 3 -4 15% 15 No
Shield, Gauntlet 50 2 -2 35% 20 ?
Shield, Grasping 50 1 -1 5% 11 Yes
Shield, Heavy, Dragoncraft* 3000 2 0 15% 10 Yes
Shield, Heavy, Steel 20 2 -2 15% 15 Yes
Shield, Heavy, Wooden 7 2 -2 15% 10 Yes
Shield, Hide 30 3 -3 30% 30 No
Shield, Light, Dragoncraft* 1500 1 0 5% 5 Yes
Shield, Light, Steel 9 1 -1 5% 6 Yes
Shield, Light, Wooden 3 1 -1 5% 5 Yes
Shield, Rider’s 75 2 -2 15% 15 No
Shield, Stiletto 30 1 -1 5% 10 Yes
Shield, Tower 30 4 -10 50% 45 No
Shield, Tower, Steel 75 4 -10 50% 100 No
Tessen 12 1 -1 5% 1 Yes
Tortoise Blade, Gnome 10 1 -1 5% 3 Yes
Wagon, Sniper 100 3 -4 15% 40 No
Wagon, Standard 75 3 -4 15% 40 No

There's every shield. Have fun.

that's, cost, Shield Bonus, ACP, ASF, weight and bash right?


Would bloodstorm blade help you at all?

Yes it would, if only Iron Heart was a crusader discipline. Just got the ToB and I've really only looked at Crusader and Swordsage, kinda glossed over the warblade but I know there's feats for maneuvers outside of your normal school right, though that's going to be pretty feat intensive.

[Darrin]

Two of my favorites:

Facehugger Fleshgrinder Frisbee (www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10715874&postcount=14)
Flying Surfboard of Force (www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=10294124&postcount=5)

[Nihilarian]

Races of the Dragon has a spell you might want to look at. Greater Mighty Wallop. It's a wizard spell, iirc.

[tyckspoon]

Yes it would, if only Iron Heart was a crusader discipline. Just got the ToB and I've really only looked at Crusader and Swordsage, kinda glossed over the warblade but I know there's feats for maneuvers outside of your normal school right, though that's going to be pretty feat intensive.

Bloodstorm Blade only requires one strike and one stance, so that's 2 feats. Not too bad, and the most important class features (Throw as a melee attack at level 2 and full-attack with a thrown weapon at 4) don't use up strikes, so there's no particular loss there.. and Martial Study/Martial Stance are pretty good feats anyway.

The bigger sacrifice is that Bloodstorm Blade doesn't advance maneuvers, so you'll be losing some ground there for as long as you're in it; whatever maneuvers you know when you go in are what you'll be using for the next few levels.

[lytokk]

So bloodstorm blade looks good, but right now I am trying to focus on the shield. from the look of that chart, I'm pretty much going with a heavy steel or wooden shield, barring special materials. Any thoughts regarding materials or is it more or less moot since none of them really benefit the shield in any significant way?

[hemming]

Cpt America's shield is made of an adamantium/vibranium alloy - for the fluff I go with adamantine.

For the function - Riverine is very pricey, but after looking at Darrins build and back at Stormwrack the wall of force effect and deflection bonuses are awesome. Easy way to make your shield immune to many spell affects and give a nice AC boost

[SiuiS]

Use the weapon size rules from DMG, same ones that make a great sword into a large long sword or whatever.

I had a monkey grip dual wielder use a great sword in one hand and a tower shield in the other, for 2d6 each. My DM had a massive fit, but I pointed out that a feat chain to use sword and shield with a total -4 to all attacks for 2d6 damage twice was much weaker than taking shock trooper and rollig out hundreds of damage a round.


I mean, it's not much as far as optimization goes, but hey! Free +4 to AC!

[lytokk]

so either adamantine or riverine, any thoughts regarding magic enchantments? If I do bloodstorm blade, no need for any of the returning enchantments, though calling may still be useful. Defending may be nice if my AC needs to go up, but as the shield is also going to be the primary weapon, somewhat limits its usefulness.

[Nightraiderx]

+2 is collision another +1 for returning so no need for bloodstorm blade levels if you don't need them.
If you have the CHA, there is a divine feat that adds your cha modifier to your Shield's AC as an untyped bonus, depends how good your cha mod is and if it's even worth the feat.

another fun idea is dual wielding shields, one light steel shield and one heavy and then using the feat, Inlindl School, bash while you bash as the heavy shield's bonus is used as fodder to up your attack bonus and keep your light shield's bonus.

[Darrin]

so either adamantine or riverine, any thoughts regarding magic enchantments?

I still think Wrapping (+1 enhancement, A&EG) is an overlooked gem, but not without some rough spots (you may have to let go of your shield to use it).

Put a Lesser Crystal of Arrow Deflection on it ASAP: +5 untyped AC bonus against all ranged attacks.

Once you have Bashing, I'd load up on the "Surge" stuff from DMGII: Sudden Stunning, Caustic Surge, Lightning Surge, Icy Surge, Flaming Surge. Unfortunately, Brutal Surge was reprinted in the MIC as a +1 enhancement, but fortunately, most of the other Surges from DMGII don't appear in the MIC under the same name, so they are still considered separate and unique abilities.

After that, Death Ward is probably the best +1 enhancement, followed by Fortification. Unfortunately, there's a very long stretch of shield enhancements between +1 and +3 that just aren't worth the bother, until you get to Soulfire (+4 enhancement, Book of Exalted Deeds). After that... Freedom (+5 enhancement, MIC) is worth it, but almost all the other shield enhancements aren't. In particular, you want to look out for abilities that force you to give up a +1 AC bonus against *all* enemies for a +2 bonus against a small subset of enemies (i.e., Angelic), or a bonus that many creatures will ignore (such as [mind-affecting], see Antipathy, Averter, or Dreadful). My general advice for filling in enhancements between +1 and +4 is, "When in doubt, pick Fortification."

[Nihilarian]

Use the weapon size rules from DMG, same ones that make a great sword into a large long sword or whatever.

I had a monkey grip dual wielder use a great sword in one hand and a tower shield in the other, for 2d6 each. My DM had a massive fit, but I pointed out that a feat chain to use sword and shield with a total -4 to all attacks for 2d6 damage twice was much weaker than taking shock trooper and rollig out hundreds of damage a round.


I mean, it's not much as far as optimization goes, but hey! Free +4 to AC!A) Monkey Grip does not work like that.
B) Tower Shields cannot be used to bash. Is there a feat or something that changes that?

Regardless, it seems your DM either didn't know the rules or was being very nice to you.

[lytokk]

+2 is collision another +1 for returning so no need for bloodstorm blade levels if you don't need them.
If you have the CHA, there is a divine feat that adds your cha modifier to your Shield's AC as an untyped bonus, depends how good your cha mod is and if it's even worth the feat.

another fun idea is dual wielding shields, one light steel shield and one heavy and then using the feat, Inlindl School, bash while you bash as the heavy shield's bonus is used as fodder to up your attack bonus and keep your light shield's bonus.

Collision, being psionic, is unfortunately a no-go, yet it would be nice. The character is a cleric, with I think a 14 CHA, but thats subject to change, due to the nature of this NPC becoming a PC. So that feat may be worth it.

He was an NPC, players loved having him around and really wanted me as the DM to play him after I accidentally killed him, and wanted me to rebuild him as I would if he was my PC, as opposed to just giving him the elite array. Trying to avoid giving him anything too big right now, and as most of the players have several different magic items, its not a super stretch to put it all into this one, but really only looking at giving it no more than +2 enchants on both sides, for starters. Considering making it a legacy type weapon and putting quests on it for opening more stuff up, but that's in the future, more than likely after my stint as DM is up and someone else takes over for a time.

[Nihilarian]

Collision, being psionic, is unfortunately a no-go, yet it would be nice. The character is a cleric, with I think a 14 CHA, but thats subject to change, due to the nature of this NPC becoming a PC. So that feat may be worth it.

He was an NPC, players loved having him around and really wanted me as the DM to play him after I accidentally killed him, and wanted me to rebuild him as I would if he was my PC, as opposed to just giving him the elite array. Trying to avoid giving him anything too big right now, and as most of the players have several different magic items, its not a super stretch to put it all into this one, but really only looking at giving it no more than +2 enchants on both sides, for starters. Considering making it a legacy type weapon and putting quests on it for opening more stuff up, but that's in the future, more than likely after my stint as DM is up and someone else takes over for a time.Collision was reprinted in Magic Item Compendium and is non-psionic.