A Sanctified Beholder

[MadGreenSon]

For general purposes I'm trying to figure something out. What would be the LA of a Sanctified Beholder?

Taking a look at the Beholder itself, after stripping away any Supernatural or Spell-like abilities as the Sanctified template does, what do we have?

Large
11 Aberration Hit Dice
+15 Natural Armor
Speed 5 or 20 (good) flying
2d4 bite
+4 Dex, +8 Con, +6 Int, +4 Wis, +4 Cha
Darkvision 60'
All-Around Vision

Not too shabby, but not many parties are gonna be shaking in their rugged and manly adventuring boots over it either.:smallbiggrin:

Now. First question, are all of the Aberration hit dice necessary? I don't remember the exact rule, do we need to give all the hit dice given in the monster write up if we're going the PC/Class Levels route?

The Natural Armor and Ability bonuses are pretty beefy. Do we take into account the fact that getting equipment is gonna be really hard for this type of creature or not?

The All Around vision prevents flanking and gives a small bonus on Spot and Search. Nice, but not gamebreaking.

Darkvision 60'? You can buy that at the airport. :smallsmile:

Flight as an (Ex) is nice, decent maneuverability, but the speed needs a lot of work (spells, items,etc.) to be viable in the long run (heh).

How do I figure this? All 11 Hit dice? Half that? I seem to have lost the knack.

Once I add the Sanctified template that's +2LA, but what about before?

[TuggyNE]

Now. First question, are all of the Aberration hit dice necessary? I don't remember the exact rule, do we need to give all the hit dice given in the monster write up if we're going the PC/Class Levels route?

Yes.


The Natural Armor and Ability bonuses are pretty beefy. Do we take into account the fact that getting equipment is gonna be really hard for this type of creature or not?

It's not as hard as you might think (unless you're referring to the difficulty of buying the items as a beholder, of course):
A creature with a beholder-shaped body can wear the following magic items:
• One headband, hat, or phylactery on the body. A beholder can only wear a helmet specially designed to fit over the creature’s entire body.
• Three pairs of eye lenses or goggles over the central eye and up to two eyestalks (one pair per eye or eyestalk).
• Three amulets, brooches, medallions, necklaces, periapts, or scarabs on up to three eyestalks (one item per eyestalk).
• One belt worn about an eyestalk.
• One pair of bracers or bracelets on a pair of eyestalks.
• Up to three rings on up to three eyestalks (one ring per eyestalk).

It doesn't get any boots, gloves, robes, or vests, and it probably uses neither a weapon nor a shield without some extra expense, if at all.

[cakellene]

Since you mention players not being scared of it, assume you mean CR not LA.

[MadGreenSon]

Since you mention players not being scared of it, assume you mean CR not LA.

Actually, what I meant was that for an 11HD creature, it's kinda underwhelming, but it's at least gonna be 11+LA ECL so I need to figure out what I'm gonna do with it.

I just need to figure out appropriate LA before adding the Template.



It's not as hard as you might think (unless you're referring to the difficulty of buying the items as a beholder, of course):

It doesn't get any boots, gloves, robes, or vests, and it probably uses neither a weapon nor a shield without some extra expense, if at all.

I imagine going shopping as a Beholder will have difficulties to say the least. But that's not what I meant. :smallbiggrin:

Can you imagine how some of the stuff from the LoM list would look? Might have found a way to do Hideous Laughter as an (Ex) ability there.:smallbiggrin:

The Beholder sized helmet, a belt wrapped around an eyestalk... Enemies die laughing. (Anyone got art for a fully kitted out Beholder that dosen't look ridiculous?)

EDIT: Found some other thread that said Beholders had LA +7... Any support for that? Also, would one maintain such an LA without the Eyebeams?

[Chronos]

The supernatural abilities are the entire reason to be a beholder. Without them, and with all those racial HD, LA 0 is too high. Which also ignores the hands problem: Just what could this thing even do?

[MadGreenSon]

The supernatural abilities are the entire reason to be a beholder. Without them, and with all those racial HD, LA 0 is too high. Which also ignores the hands problem: Just what could this thing even do?

AH ha! Glad you asked! Once the Sanctified template is added, it's antimagic eye is disabled and then it's Beholder Mage -> Celestial Mystic time! :smallbiggrin:

I figure it'll make a unique cohort or PC at some point. Maybe the racial HD can be rebuilt/re-trained since a lot of them seem vestigial after Sanctification.

[dysprosium]

If we take the guidelines from Savage Species (I know, I know . . . ), the level adjustment would probably count out to +7 level adjustment.

Large (no reach so no adjustment)
+15 Natural Armor (SS guidelines would peg this at +2 LA alone)
Speed 5 or 20 (good) flying (flying is always a +1 LA even with the slow speed)
2d4 bite (natural attack grants a +1 LA)
+4 Dex, +8 Con, +6 Int, +4 Wis, +4 Cha (very positive stat boosts +2 LA or maybe even +3 LA)
Darkvision 60' (none, lots of things have this)
All-Around Vision (immune to flanking usually nets a +1 LA)

So that makes it ECL 18 or ECL 19 before adding class levels. Adding sanctified makes it ECL 20 or ECL 21 before adding class levels.

We could probably lower the level adjustment of the natural armor, natural attack, and maybe the all around vision adjustments to 0. Still makes it steep at +3, but ECL 14 is much more manageable.

Of course you are the DM of your group--this is how I would stat up one for mine.

[Urpriest]

LA --.

Using the guidelines from Savage Species, the thing still lacks opposable thumbs. Looking at various other races, that means it's either LA --, or cohort-only.

Granted, cohort-only is at least plausible, and as others have mentioned once you strip out the SUs it's not too crazy for 11HD.

[MadGreenSon]

Ok. Cool. Now I have a decent idea of what I'd be working with.

As the DM I'll call it w/ template a total LA of Racial HD+4.

Contemplating the possibilities here, this would make for a good solo-game as the Sancti-Beholder goes on a Rebuild-Quest to become a better being/ champion of good. Probably use something like the Gates of Dawn and have the character also gaining exp and slowly rebuilding along the way. The racial Hit Dice that need to be retained should be commensurate with the abilities retained.
4-5 RHD should be enough.

When he reaches his goal and/or gets the first level of Beholder Mage, the Sancti-Beholder immediately gets a bit more able to get by as his ability to interact with the world is expanded by the Arcane Hands class feature and he no longer has to rely on his mouth and tongue to open doors and stuff.

Damn. This might be fun to run. :smallbiggrin:

What'll really bake people's noodles is when Sancti-Beholder shows up later with levels of Celestial Mystic!

[Chronos]

How are you taking Beholder Mage? You no longer have an antimagic eye to put out.

[MadGreenSon]

How are you taking Beholder Mage? You no longer have an antimagic eye to put out.

To be a Beholder Mage you need two things
1) You need to be a beholder, a True Beholder (which Sancti is, despite his lack of eye-rays)

2) Your central eye needs to be non functioning, usually via ritual destruction (No functioning central eye here!)

There is nothing in the class that says that there is One True Way to get the non functional central eye anti-magic, just that it has to happen.

By the fluff, if the method was too specific, there'd probably only be one Beholder Mage as Beholders generally don't share, even with each other. Especially with each other.

[Cirrylius]

Wooow this is a weird idea.

How would being Good affect a Beholder's mind, with the whole frothing xenophobia/superiority complex and sane/unsane mental structure thing?

[MadGreenSon]

Wooow this is a weird idea.

Thanks! :smallbiggrin:



How would being Good affect a Beholder's mind, with the whole frothing xenophobia/superiority complex and sane/unsane mental structure thing?

I figure that if not cured, then that whole "I am the perfect being" thing they have going on might just become a rampaging case of vanity.

Ok, so a Lawful Good Sanctified Beholder Mage with perfectly groomed teeth and...eyestalks? is where I seem to be going with this...

I'm gonna go run my game now...

[MadGreenSon]

OH Wow! Part of what inspired this is a vague possibility in my current game. The BBEG is basically a.... Now that I think about it he's kinda like a Disciple of Ashardalon in that he did some vague Vile stuff to bind a Pit Fiend's essence into his internal organs and is generally about as nasty as it gets.

Not the point, either way, every time the only middling optimized but very exalted PCs have seen him he's had this seriously dominated Beholder with him that's basically his gopher, footstool and general toady. (He has devils to be his actual cohorts) and despite the fact that the dominated Eyeball (which is what the BBEG calls him) is still an evil Beholder. the 19thlvl Wizard (who is a Celestial Mystic AND my roommate) feels sorry for the bugger and expressed his intentions to the rest of the party to try and Sanctify Eyeball to save him from his life of misery and evil!!!!!

I may just run a bit of a side game with him running 'ol Eyeball (I need an actual name for him, I'll look in LoM) through a quest to become a proper champion of Good and maybe end up with a very unique cohort!

Because the player lives in my house we will have the spare time for the side-quest, it could be sooooo awesome!:smallbiggrin:

I'm so excited I could grow an eyestalk!:smallbiggrin:

It took so much will not to shout out loud when he said it, you have no idea...