New D&D 3.5 DM needs advices for imbalances and ubber character

[Reis Tahlen]

Hello everybody!

Thanks to the great people around these parts, I have a strong and pleasant campaign in the workshop, and my players are excited to start.

A great source of trouble for me was finding the "right" system: my players don't like 4e because of the sluggish fights and the way classes are designed. After a loooooooong time pondering beteween returning to Ad&D 2nd edition and D&D 3.5, I picked the latest.

Though, I still have some concern. It is no secret that 3.5 has serious balance issues (I read enough thread about this); the trouble is I'm TERRIBLE at noticing an imbalanced character before it goes to play. I focus my attention to backstories and the universe, I'm not too good at math.

In my group of , I have one player who is a genius at creating ubber characters (who makes other players cringe), and an another who is a genius at creating something less powerfull than a diseased kobold (who makes other player faint from laughing)

What kind of advice, O dear seasoned veteran, to a brand new DM which will allow me to run a smooth and enjoyable campaign?

If it can be of any help, the world setting will be one created by the players troughout the sessions; at the end of each story, they will tell me what the next story will be about, and I design something around this, including some plots of my own. Much like a TV serie.

Thanks!

[supermonkeyjoe]

You have two choices really:

Cater the game with those two characters in mind, while the uber powerful optimised character is off beating up the big monsters, everyone else beats up the little monsters, the weakling does something else equally important.

Or

Talk to the two players, ask the optimiser to not create a character that will overshadow the others and help the other player make a character that can contribute.

[Khedrac]

A lot of a character's effectiveness lies in how they are played, possibly more than their base chassis.

However it sounds as if you have someone who both builds and plays very effectively and someone who ... doesn't.

So, why not get the two players to each make a character for the other? The effective player will be pulled down by the weak build (though they will still probably be fairly strong) while the less games-mechanically skilled player will be boosted by the character (though probably still not earth shattering).

Get each player to tell the other what type of character they are after (and probably explain to both why you are doing this). They might even find they enjoy the challenge.

[Za'hynie Laya]

One trick I use before a band of PCs get through the mid-levels is place a major artifact in a Boss' treasure designed specifically for the weak/under-powered PC. If the weak PCs' player is prone to making poor decisions that endanger the rest of the group (insult a noble or threaten a princess), the artifact will be intelligent (sort of a DM PC) able to spout off advice or comments when appropriate. Sometimes the artifact gains powers as the PC levels through adventuring. I use both the 3.5 and 1st edition DMGs for guidelines on artifact creation (and destruction).

Another trick is to invent new spells to introduce into play on scribed scrolls. These new spells (or powers) usually greatly benefit the weak PC's class/race/magic item abilities. e.g.: A straight melee-type can benefit from an improved keen spell that triples a weapon's threat range.

I follow the Gygaxian gaming philosophy: these rules are for the players to go by. The Dungeon Master is not subject to the rules. He is the master of them.

I wish you luck in mastering your game.

[Captnq]

Sure. Lets see what I got in my, Kicking around folder...

1)The d20 system expanded way beyond anything anyone was expecting. If you include the 3rd party stuff, you can do just about anything. Want to play a super hero? They got that. Want to play a cat? They got that too. Even if you stick with the stuff that was “official D&D”, whatever that might be, you’ve got close to a hundred books and supplements. Even if you discard everything but the player’s handbook, you got a few hundred pages to read.

Then, if you want some background, depending on your campaign setting, you might have a few dozen books to read. There are 22 Eberron books alone. 73 Forgotten Realms books. If you got an old timer like myself, who uses 1st and 2nd edition Forgotten Realms material for the setting, you can add another 143 books. Let’s not even go into the web enhancements.

This is not a closed circuit of rules like Checkers. This is the most massive rule set ever. Here there be Dragons.

2) The game is so simple as to defy explanation.

Here's the game from a DM's point of view.:
If something would automatically fail, it fails.
If something would automatically succeed, it succeeds
If there is a slight chance of failure, Roll 1d20. On a 1 it fails.
If there is a slight chance of success, Roll 1d20. On a 20 it succeeds.
If it lands somewhere between 10% success to 90% success, figure out what chance it has to succeed, pick a number 2 to 19, roll the bones and get your number or higher.

All those other dice? 95% of the time you can just pick the averages. Adjust them slightly to give the illusion of randomness, but really, the other dice don't matter 95% of the time. The average result is usually good enough.

3) A DM has to create the ILLUSION that he's impartial and fair. That he's playing by the rules, but the thing is, the players have no way to figure that out. So we have Hundreds of rulebooks, and we look at them. And we make faces. And we pay attention to the players who has memorized this section of the rule book. But in the end, if the players believe in you, all you need is one d20 and a whole lot a chutzpah.

What does this have to do with running? TIME MANAGEMENT.

You need to know the nature of the game. It's TRUE nature. You need to strip away everything that is holding you back. Rules will only slow you down. Yes, read those rules. Try to follow the rules, but if figuring out the rules gets in the way, if they slow you down, if they take more then 60 seconds to figure them out, SCREW IT.

Estimate in your head the chance of success
Write down your estimation.
If your estimation comes up again, reuse it.
If there are variables, adjust it.

Look at each combat as an entire new universe. If they only have a chance of hitting the target on a 36 AC, fine. Jot that down. Didn't figure out exactly what his touch attack, or flatfoot is? Eyeball it IF IT COMES UP IN PLAY.

Then, once you've worked out the fine art of Subjective Dungeon Mastering and Relative Difficulty Calculation (SDMARD), all else will fall away. Combat will speed up on your end.


What if you get caught with your pants down and need to fake it:
1) Roll initiative once. Make everyone move to sit in order of initiative. Then the fastest guy rolls for the group. Either the party goes first, or the NPCs do. Is it RAW? No. But you are running for 10+ people, they need to suck it.

2) Tell the players they have the whole time everyone else is going to come up with something. Combat is now rapid fire. When you point at someone, they go. If they go, "Ummm..." Hold up your hand and start taking down fingers. 5,4,3,2,1... "Ennnht" The buzzer sounds, "You lost your action." Point to the next person. Boom! Boom! Boom! Boom! People will learn to start talking and explaining. Don't cut people off, just don't allow book referencing, power confirming, or what have you. They don't know what a fireball does? Well, the wizard doesn't have his spell component ready.

3) Encourage people to make combat sheets. Sheets for nothing but combat. When it's time for combat, sheets at the ready! Soon as you lose your actions a few times, you'll figure out how to move faster.

4) Be just as hard on the NPCs. Boom Boom Boom Boom. Give yourself some "wiggle" room. Hey, this is a BBEG, he's going to have some tricks. But this Mook? Roll a d20. on a 20 he's got a flask of some nasty crap. What was is? Dunno. Are you going to let it hit you in the face to fine out? Well, I guess it was a delayed fireball in a flask of quintessence. BOOM. Maybe he throws it at the wrong target, but that’s how real life is.

5) Work out the treasure ahead of time, since you actually have to hand that over to the players. Or use Crystal Ball’s random treasure generator. (some day I will finish my upgrade of their files and have a TRUE and COMPLETE all RAW 3.0/3.5 magic item generator! Some day...) But feel free to outfit the NPCs with extra Expendable equipment on a whim. Someone used Oil of magical Weapon +5. Someone has blister oil for extra damage. Etc etc etc.

6) READ. READ A WHOLE LOT. You don't need to know the rules, you just need to be able to pull something out of your ass at the last second if a Player calls shenanigans. My handbooks will help.

7) ROLL LOTS OF DICE AND LOOK PENSIVE. You must always be inscrutable while DMing. The rest of the time, feel free to be scrutable. But while you are DMing you must maintain an aura of Fear and Enigma. The players must always worry that you have planned something. They must think you are twelve steps ahead of everything they do. They must believe you are a master of Xanatos Speed Chess.

This belief, especially if you don't give them time to think, will create a better playing environment for the players. They will think you are a God toying with them, when in reality you are three sheets to the wind and making it all up as you go along.

But that's doesn't matter. You smile and say, "Aha! I planned for this! Then pause to bring up a file and say, "Just a moment. Searching my hard drive. Ah, here is it. I keep it in a folder marked 'Players' Worst Nightmares" Meanwhile you are frantically reloading the random monster generator on Monsteradvancer.com

Find a mirror. Practice an evil sneer.

8) Then lose. Lose while pulling out your hair. Groan and demand to see the player's sheet. Frantically scour it looking for proof of the player's claim. mutter, "So many players, I forgot you could do that." Thrust it back at him. Hunch over your notes and scrunch up your lips, making them migrate randomly around your face. Finally throw your hand up and say, "FINE. All this work and THAT's how he dies? *sigh* look defeated. Describe the death of the NPC you spent months, nay, YEARS custom creating just to watch him DIE in 3 rounds of combat! My DREAMS of MURDERING ALL OF YOU. Dashed.... to pieces. *sob*

And while they are all High Fiving one another, "YEAH! BAD Guy went DOWN!" You let out a sigh that another successful evening was had, and encourage them to RP among themselves while you adlib a new horror for them to handle.

You shouldn’t do that too often, but everyone needs to fake it every once in a while.


Continuity
Being a DM and running combat is not enough. Players want stories and details. So, you need to work on some plots and back drop.

1 shots
one-shot is a single complete story that starts and ends in the original play session. There are upsides and downsides to running one-shot. The upside is you can start a game and run through it without issue of worrying about it affecting anything else. You can kill the characters and nobody has any real attachment to any of them. The downside is a lack of connection to the characters. If there's no emotional connection then it is hard to get people interested.

Episodic
1 shots can turn into a series of episodic adventures based around the same characters. It manages the player misses a session there is no loss in continuity. If the stories finished at the end of each session, it simply doesn't matter who's playing next time. It also is easier to customize the game for those who are in attendance. A DM can spotlight a specific player when using episodic adventures.
The downside is it is harder to design complex subplots and over arcing meta-plots. Subplots at best can last 2 maybe 3 sessions. Meta-plots are right out.

Serial
a serial adventure takes place across several play sessions and role-play is usually at a premium. In a serial adventure, it is important that at the end all loosens are eventually tied up, the mysteries are solved, and the day is saved. These are best described as long-term subplots. The downside is, a serial adventure requires some sort of definitive end. If you leave too many things hanging, it has a tendency to fall flat. The players want to know that they are done. If you leave too many things on answered they will feel cheated. Serial adventures her best when you know you only have so many months to play before the game has to come to an end.

Meta-plots
in some way running with mental plots is the best of all worlds. The problem is the amount of time and commitment required from everyone involved. Usually will happen is you will have a sprinkling of episodic adventures with a number parallel serial adventures taking place simultaneously. Some of these will be a throw away or better known as red herrings. However the rest will all be part of an ongoing plot that arches over all the others.
An example would be if the players stop some goblins from attacking a village. Later on they discovered goblins were sent by an evil cleric. Then they have to deal with the evil cleric in a nearby city corrupting people. Later they find the goblin leader has his own plans. All these plots tie together when you discover that the evil God behind it all has plans to uncover a powerful artifact and destroy the world.
This is of course an oversimplification. The best meta-plots run in tandem with other meta-plots. You as the DM have to decide how they interact. To run them correctly the meta-plots should be running in the background and may only change from their course and direction when the players interact with them. This gives the illusion that the world exists and does not revolve around the players entirely. This allows the players actions to have more meaning since they aren't predetermined.


Odds and ends
The one constant thing in all your failed campaigns is YOU.

It is a poor DM who blames his players.

Did they enjoy themselves? Were they entertained? Did play move swiftly and did it get bogged down in combat? The way you need to measure your success should not be by the number of monster's killed, but by the entertainment generated.

Will this night be a night to be remembered? No? You failed.

It's perfectly fine to murder the crap out of your players. You should do it a few times. They'll take things much more seriously. I'll bet they start to work together as a team much better as soon as they start turning into corpses.

[Flickerdart]

Make them trade characters.

[Sir Chuckles]

How well do your players know 3.5?
Because if he's brand spankin' new and comes to the table with a Half-Orc Monk, then you might not have too much to worry about.

But if he spends a week and shows up here asking about a Saint Clericzilla build...well, you'll have to get your cowboy hat and chaps.

Do a pre-session, online or in person, specifically for building characters and then come back here and tell us what they ultimately came up with, any question you could not answer, things like that.

[SouthpawSoldier]

The best new DM advice I've ever read.

This^ was fantastic to read. I've been intimidated by DMing; my tries at one-shot modules didn't go very well. Now I think I may be able to run a game much smoother.

Really wish this forum had a "thanks" function.

[DukeKeiran99]

We have the same things going on at our table as well. You got myself and another player who tend to optimize a lot more than the other players. So what we decided on was to not allow Dragon Magazine, Faerun, or Eberron material. It helped keep the players a lot more even.

[Ansem]

If someone becomes too powerful they get divine punishment and banished to the 67th layer of the abyss, always works for me.
Secondly, know the difference between overpowered and stupid enemies.
Debuff a charger and use battlefield control on him.
Drain the casters main stat or grapple him.
A simple wind-wall protects from ranged attacks.

Just because players or standard adventures can be a bit dumb doesn't mean your world is, if your party has an archer (ranger/scout) doing tons of damage, someone who wants the party dead will take precautions.

[SouthpawSoldier]

If someone becomes too powerful they get divine punishment and Just because players or standard adventures can be a bit dumb doesn't mean your world is; if your party has an archer (ranger/scout) doing tons of damage, someone who wants the party dead will take precautions.

I smell Tucker's Kobolds.

[Urpriest]

Make them trade characters.

That's a very "game theory" solution...I like it!

That said, this, like every other DM problem, is a matter of communication. Talk to the guy who optimizes, ask him to tone it down, talk to the guy who underoptimizes, ask him to take advice from the optimizing guy. Remind them both that you all want a game that can be fun for everybody. Rinse and repeat for every other problem you encounter.

[Haggler]

My thoughts on this would be. Isn´t this one of the exact reasons the tier-system was designed? To help DMs balance the parties of the campains they run so that the player characters would be more equal in power and ability.

Just let the player without optimization skill picker a higher tier and perhaps the superskilled a lower and run from there.

Tier system
http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?PHPSESSID=bc18425e5fa73d30e4a9a54889edf4 4e&topic=1002.0

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5256.0

[PaucaTerrorem]

Make them trade characters.

Start of session "Pass your sheets to the left; and let's begin"!

Hearing that from a DM would make me poop. I sit next to our inexperienced players.

[GoodbyeSoberDay]

So, we have one player who obviously cares naught for mechanics and enjoys the game likely in a casual or RP-oriented manner. We have another player who obviously enjoys making and playing powerful characters. This creates a balance problem.

Switching their characters would fix the balance problem. However, you've just given a casual, RP-oriented player a complicated sheet full of things he doesn't understand, and a backstory/character concept to which he has no connection. And you've just given an experienced player who likes powerful characters a piece of mechanical poop. I don't think either player is going to actually enjoy this, which IMO trumps balance concerns.