Bard in the making - Help needed - Pathfinder

[Greenfeuer]

Well hello there people!

I am currently rethinking my idears for my bard I started on this new Pathfinder Campaign in our own low fantasy universe.

My plans are to make this trickster bard/rogue type. Mainly focus on the bard part, cause I wanted to try somthing new.

I am heading towards arcane trickster, which means 3-4 levels in rogue and rest in bard and arcane trickster.


Now here is my current stats and feats. Don't remember my skills too well so we skip those. But I will metion two I am in doubt of.


Str: 10
Dex: 15 ( Used my 2+ stat Human on it, was 13. ))
Con: 11
Int: 15
Wis: 12
Cha: 18.

Feats:

Decitful: 2+ Disguise 2+ Bluff.

Persusive: 2+ Diplomacy 2+ initimidate.

They will yield 4+ when a skill is rank 10 or above.


I plan maybe to take Weapon Finesse for more combat focus. And I have though of a few other feats but non I am 100% settled on.


My team is made up of another Rogue and a Fighter. But don't put much into what group I am in, since we often die in these campaigns or get npc who helps. So the team switch alot.


There is aswell two skills I am wondering about. I have chosen Proffesion: Bard. But I have heard that Perform can yield gold aswell, is it good to have both?

I have chosen craft intruements aswell.



We focus heavly on the rp aspect and skills are used often. There is not much dungeoneering, its more low fantasy based so we mostly end up fighting non monster creatures. But we do bash into som now and then.


Magic is aswell low key, hench why I can't start out as a bard right away. Though it is possiable/promised that such classes opens up as we go, with the possiablity of a respec/reclass.



Hope the infomation is suffecient. I like to focus mostly on my character as a Trickster sort of bard, a sorta Loki type, aswell the classic bard who likes to bring party and good mood to the people. In short, he likes to have fun! ;)

If possiable he likes to stay clear of fighting, and his not very honorable either on how to stay clear of it. He rather trick or put a dagger to the kidney on those who want his life, than faceing them in open battle.


Aka. Relays more on sneak attack if he -must- fight.

Our plotline is we are gonna join this guard force, who is sorta "Lazy/easy" money who ain't really worth much after being all switch out with a new guard force. And their ain't that much criminal or war activity as it is, and its heavly ruled by nobles. Atleast openly.

Hope its good infomation ^^

[Greenfeuer]

There is another thing.

I got profesion bard.

But what is the difference between that and simply useing perform?

[grarrrg]

I am heading towards arcane trickster, which means 3-4 levels in rogue and rest in bard and arcane trickster.

*cringes at questionable multiclassing*

Take a look at the Sandman (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/archetypes/paizo---bard-archetypes/sandman) Archetype.
It gets Sneak Attack at 5, 10, 15, 20.
So you could single class into Arcane Trickster at level 10/11, or go Sandman for 5 levels, dip Rogue for 1 (maybe 2 for Evasion/Talent), and only lose out on 1 or 2 caster levels instead of 3 or more.

Your stats are also not that useful for non-casting combat, so I'd shy away from Rogue as much as possible (unless you rearrange your stats).



Str: 10
Dex: 15 ( Used my 2+ stat Human on it, was 13. ))
Con: 11
Int: 15
Wis: 12
Cha: 18.


If that's Point-Buy and not rolls, you can do better.
Drop CHA to 16, and put your Human bonus there, that would free up _7_ points, and you could easily just bump your DEX up to 16 right away (or leave it at 15 and have a couple extra points for STR, CON, or WIS).

If it is rolls and not Point-Buy....hmmm....

[Greenfeuer]

Its not points buy, its rolls.

I rolled those stats and placed them where they seemed fitting.

I can change them all but the more I change, the more work + time I have to use on it. So I don't like to overdue it, ofcourse if its a massive bonus I may see the point.

I won't go sandman/arch types. We stick to the core book for now, as it is. If possiable.


What do you think of the following feats?

Decitful: 2+ Disguise 2+ Bluff.

Persusive: 2+ Diplomacy 2+ initimidate.

They will yield 4+ when a skill is rank 10 or above.

[Karoht]

Soundstriker Bard. Look it up.
Bard 6-10 > Arcane Trickster X > Remainder of levels as Bard.

Trust me. I have been where you are headed. Weird Words is an EXCELLENT way to deliver Sneak Attacks because it hits Touch AC's which are much easier to hit. It also uses Charisma to damage things. It's a Supernatural Ability (Su) and the damage is untyped (not specifically called out as Sonic) so it may or may not bipass most forms of Damage Reduction. You can use this to deliver Sneak Attacks, and you get up to 10 attacks with it per round (or Bolts, as it were), so that acts as an incredible force multiplier.
Take the feat Discordant Voice, it adds another 1D6 Sonic damage whenever you are using a performance. Weird Words is a performance. A Performance that weaponizes your Charisma, with multi-target potential, which is awesome.

IF you still want Rogue levels in there, take no more than 3. Either Rogue (Rake Archetype) or Ninja. Once you can use Weird Words, you really want to take the Rogue Talent/Ninja Trick known as Pressure Points. Every time you connect with a Sneak Attack, deal 1 point of Strength or Dexterity damage to further weaken your foes.
NOTE--you can use Rogue Talents to get Ninja Tricks without being a Ninja, and Ninja Tricks to get Rogue Talents, it says so in both descriptions.

Bard 10/Ninja1 or Rogue1
10 bolts dealing 1D8 +1D6(Sonic) +Charisma Bonus + Sneak Attack Dice (1D6) + 1 STR/DEX Damage
The Fort save only applies to the 1D8 +Charisma Bonus numbers, and not your Sneak Attack Dice.
And if you go Rogue (Rake) you get to make an Intimidate Check against every target you hit and trigger sneak attack with, which causes penalties as well.


Because there is no reason you can't buff and hurt things, often at the same time.

If you want to squeeze in a level or 3 of Oracle, pick Lore Mystery and get Sidestep Secret to get your Charisma to AC and Reflex Saves.
Be Chaotic Good. Get a wand of Bestow Grace, it adds your Charisma to Saves just like a Paladin. This helps TREMENDOUSLY.

Take this Masterpiece as soon as you qualify for it. Do not waste feats to acquire Masterpieces, sacrifice a Spell Known for it, far more efficient.
Pagent of the Peacock (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/masterpieces/pageant-of-the-peacock)
Stack your Bluff up as high as you can. You may now use your Bluff in place of any Int based checks. This includes crafting, but most notably includes Knowledge checks.
Other awesome Masterpieces
Symphony of the Elysian Heart (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/masterpieces/symphony-of-the-elysian-heart-keyboard-wind)--Functions as Freedom of Movement but targets you and an Ally, remembering that by this point you can do performances as a Move Action rather than the Standard Action of casting Freedom of Movement.
Requiem of the Fallen Priest King (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/masterpieces/the-requiem-of-the-fallen-priest-king-oratory-sing)Gives you an extra standard action by sacrificing a swift action. Bestows this on the party. Extremely handy buff before a fight.
Depths of the Mountain (http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/core-classes/bard/masterpieces/the-depths-of-the-mountain-percussion-wind)Functions as Earthquake, but you can keep it going for quite a while and it's a very handy spell that you wouldn't normally get. Groovy thing here is, you can do this as a move action and still cast a spell as a Standard, or do something else. And by the time you can take this, you can also cast Shadow Bard who can maintain this for you while you do another Performance (IE-Weird Words).


Happy hunting.

[Greenfeuer]

Sadly we won't use arch types as faar as I am aware of. Due to the fact we stick to the core book as much as possiable + to avoid to much time used on character leveling/stuff.

[Greenfeuer]

Feel free to suggest re-arrange og stats. At the momment we are level 2, but we got greenlight for a respec at level 1. Since I wasn't there last time when we leveled I am still allowed to change my stats etc.

I am a level 2 rogue as it is and I am thinking of takeing weapon finesse as my rogue ability/talent.

[Karoht]

Sadly we won't use arch types as faar as I am aware of. Due to the fact we stick to the core book as much as possiable + to avoid to much time used on character leveling/stuff.The Masterpiece info is still core though. And still some of the best options you can get, in place of a single spell known at the indicated levels.

Also, clarify with your DM how Ventriloquism interacts with audio based Bardic Performances. Why? Ventrilloquism states in the spell description "You can make your voice (or any sound that you can normally make vocally) seem to issue from someplace else. You can speak in any language you know. With respect to such voices and sounds, anyone who hears the sound and rolls a successful save recognizes it as illusory (but still hears it)." Ventrilloquism can have a pretty decent range, farther than your Bardic Performances can normally reach. Helpful if you want to buff people but stand at a safer distance. It also matters in respect to that Masterpiece that triggers Earthquake. And a great way to not have things target you (to stop you from buffing) is to make them think the sound is coming from somewhere else.

[Greenfeuer]

The bard magic in our game will have alitte twist. So it won't be VERY rule heavy, but it will be guided greatly by the book.


However I would like to focus whenever or not to change my stats. And if I may wish to roll new statss or simply switch around on the old ones.

I am thinking of takeing Finesse Rogue as my Rogue talent. To avoid wasteing feats on it.

Atm my Rogue will be level 2 when I start it :)

I could go with 13 Int and 17 Dex instead aswell. Though I will got 16 Dex as soon as I reach level 4.

[Greenfeuer]

The chance of death is VERY hight we bairly make ourself past level 10-12 or so. Mostly we go down at 9-8 leve. In our old campaign.

Insane long talent tree/Spec things won't be very common to achive in my group. So its better with somthing more focused on the low 10-12 levels or so.

[Karoht]

I would skip Finesse Rogue/Weapon Finesse, and instead just use a Bow which already uses Dex to hit. And remember, you can still Sneak Attack with a ranged weapon from 30ft away (or less) just so long as you can get the target flat footed. Which is startlingly easy seeing as you can take Vanish as a first level spell.

[Greenfeuer]

I will write more soon! Very soon!

So faar I haven't changed the stats and we will see if I change them. I plan to increase my dex to 16 at level 3. I am not sure if I wish to changed my int. I am sorta the skillfull person in the group and the one doing all sorts of things.


I succed a 6-7 Linquistic checks with a DC of 14 or such. That pretty much gave us acess to a side plot, where we should act as guards

I use my INT skills alot, aswell. And now I am the only rogue, our rogue player decied to make a new character.

So now we are a Fighter, Barbarian, Ranger.

So I probably focus on supporting them more then anything else xD As I said our group changes alot, and we have alot of NPCS helping us out at times and large scale fights. Though we avoided being beaten by 8-9 fanatics, me and the rogue due to pure awesome roleplay + a deadly high diplomacy, somthing we may else have died of.


I am allowed to level as a bard now, due to a supernatural incounter with a bard sort of type. I plan to level as a bard next level, then as a rogue once more to 3th or 4th. I am thinking of taking a 4th level to get one more feat + another rogue bonus



As told VERY long specs/builds may not work due to the fact that we rarely last that long. But its always nice to have a goal, sort of.


Should I by the way get my con raised above 11? Or is 1 hp each level not really a big matter?

Thinking of increase my dex to 16 and my int to 16 aswell.



I may have lost 4hp points do to not having my con at 12 +1, but I felt at the time of making that wisdom would matter more. Since if I failed a rolled that killed me anyway with spot/listen, hp wouldn't matter too much.

We use our skills ALOT, there is tons of checks. Do the fact we are not doing the whole classic D&D crawl.


I may be able to change my stats, but I am not much for it, due to the fact that game is already on going/it may gets things diffcult.

But did I loose alot the whole not having 12 in con thing?

[Karoht]

Pagent of the Peacock Masterpiece.
Use your Bluff skill in place of any Int based skill.
Note that Crafting checks are Int based, as is Appraise. So is Linguistics.

Comes online at level 4. You need 4 ranks in Perform (act or dance) and it will cost you a second level spell known (or a feat, but I wouldn't waste a feat on it).

[Greenfeuer]

We only go by the corebook so faar, because we don't want it to be more advanced then necessary and we got a few people who ain't too sharp on the rules either.


But I like the idear of that dance still!