Build Challenge: Mad Bomber

[Vhaidara]

I want to make a non-magical bomber. For purposes of this challenge, ignore the casting requirement to use Craft Alchemy.

I know about PF's Alchemist, but I don't want to back port the class.

Allowed sources: 3.0 (unupdated), 3.5, PF (not the Alchemist class), Dragon mag (cite the issue and preferably the page)

So, with that said...
1. What class is best? Let's find a top 3.
2. What PrC options are there? This time a top 5-10 (so many possibilities)
3. What are good feats?
4. What are good bombs and other alchemical items?

[paperarmor]

Factotum is the best class I'd say get the feats Quickdraw, Grenadier, and appropriatly Mad Alchemist. Talk your DM into have a Bandolier of potions and focus on ranged combat with thrown weapons. If you want go Melee pick up an aspergillum or a heavy aspergillum they let you add and deliver Alchemists fire or acid with your attacks. Someone else can probably help with the items themselves better than I.

[Juntao112]

Factotum is the best class I'd say get the feats Quickdraw, Grenadier, and appropriatly Mad Alchemist.

Be sure to take Darkstalker (http://dndtools.eu/feats/lords-of-madness--72/darkstalker--512/) as well.

[Ellowryn]

Feats, obviously Brew Potion.

Also for more fun madcaps grab craft construct and make a few Packmates (Magic of Eberron)! They can hold potions as well, and can trow them too! Take Improved Homunculus to help keep them alive and to make them better at throwing things. Nothing says Mad Alchemist like making a little army of Alchemical throwing TERRORS!!!!!

[VoxRationis]

If you're trying to be "mad" and not just a grenadier, you need to be doing things on an action-movie style scale. My favorite trick in this regard is to set up flour in large quantities such that the room's air is saturated with the flour particles. (Lots of bags with holes in them strapped to the ceiling, a loose pile near an updraft or wind source, an unseen servant lifting handfuls into the air and letting go repeatedly, etc.)
Suspension of combustible material in oxygen-containing atmosphere= potential for a rapid burn. A MacGyvered fuse or a clockwork-timed flintlock mechanism of some sort to set it off, and BOOM! You're done.
It won't be quite like an explosion with dedicated explosives, but for a medieval, pre-gunpowder setting, it's going to be close enough.

[Telonius]

You need to have a fairly good dexterity (ranged attack for the weapon). Having high stealth skills would be a plus, if you're planning on escaping after the deed. Some source of extra speed would be nice, as well, for ambushing. It's a "mad" bomber, so lawful classes would probably not be very good for it.

So, Scout, Rogue, and Ninja seem to be the closest fits. Ranger is technically a spellcaster, but it would work otherwise.

For Feats: several good ones have already been mentioned. Shaped Splash from Races of Eberron is a good one, though you do have to be a Halfling.

[Vhaidara]

If you're trying to be "mad" and not just a grenadier, you need to be doing things on an action-movie style scale. My favorite trick in this regard is to set up flour in large quantities such that the room's air is saturated with the flour particles. (Lots of bags with holes in them strapped to the ceiling, a loose pile near an updraft or wind source, an unseen servant lifting handfuls into the air and letting go repeatedly, etc.)
Suspension of combustible material in oxygen-containing atmosphere= potential for a rapid burn. A MacGyvered fuse or a clockwork-timed flintlock mechanism of some sort to set it off, and BOOM! You're done.
It won't be quite like an explosion with dedicated explosives, but for a medieval, pre-gunpowder setting, it's going to be close enough.

I was wondering when we'd get real world exploits :p.

Note that I have no rule against casting, it simply isn't a requirement.

[Zombulian]

I was wondering when we'd get real world exploits :p.

Note that I have no rule against casting, it simply isn't a requirement.

Ah, then I would recommend Artificer. Packmate homonculus for free and nice crafting bonuses, plus minor and major creation for poison vials.

[Telonius]

I was assuming no-magic as well. Seconded on Artificer, then.

[Vhaidara]

So that's why no one was recommending artificer. Honestly, that's why I wanted a top 3 for classes. I knew artificer would be in first.

[Telonius]

So that's why no one was recommending artificer. Honestly, that's why I wanted a top 3 for classes. I knew artificer would be in first.

"non-magical bomber" kind of suggests that you don't want your bomber to have any magic. :smallbiggrin:

[Ellowryn]

"non-magical bomber" kind of suggests that you don't want your bomber to have any magic. :smallbiggrin:

Yep, same for me, also just wizard isn't horrible either, especially if you take spells that enhance your ability to deal damage with/hit with/other maniacle shenanigans with your bombs.

Cackling old man with a pointy hat has MAD written all over it.

For actual items just look up the alchemy skill in any/all books you can get, preferably underdark, eberron, and faerun casue they tend to treat alchemy as an actual useful skill in those settings.

[Nihilarian]

The Alchemist Savant and/or the Master Alchemist could do for PrC's.

[Vhaidara]

I just wanted the bombs themselves to not be fundamentally magical. To prevent people from suggesting that I just throw a fireball and refluff it or something.

Master Alchemist is surprisingly useless. It's just about making potions, which are limited to beneficial effects. It has some potential synergy with Alchemical Savant, but not enough to be worth 10 levels.

Okay, so far we have

Top 3 Base Classes
1. Artificer: making an army of constructs to make a payload of alchemical stuffs to be thrown by said army of constructs. THE VOLUME ROUTE.

2. Factotum: Because they do everything, and do it pretty well.

3. Ninja/Rogue: Because Sneak Attack/Sudden Strike on touch attacks is delicious. Also functions as a skill monkey. THE STEALTH ROUTE

Top PrCs
1. Alchemical Savant: Fascinating in the applications here. Although not being able to make a spellvial of fireball is a shame.


Top Feats
1. Grenadier: Nice bonuses to our main source of attack
2. Mad Alchemist: Still a bit questionable (the options aren't too strong imo). Craft(alchemy) vs Concentration for a caster sounds awesome though, And Fiery Blaze by Alch fire followed by Alch fire is ++good.
3. Darkstalker: not for the artificer, needed if going stealthy. Should be a class feature for those classes.
4. Quickdraw: Obviously we want alchemical iteratives
5. Brew Potion: Needed for entry into Alchemical Savant

Top Bombing Items
I've been told to look through Eberron and Faerun books. I'll work on that. Any other ideas?


I think the most effective would be in gestalt. Run Artificer on one side into Alchemical Savant and Rogue or Ninja on the other for SA/SS.

[Yogibear41]

Some of the ravenloft books might have stuff that could help, what level are you looking to do this at? It can work for low levels but once you start getting past 6 there not really alot to make you not suck without pulling something 3rd party, or using magic which in the case of magic you might as well be using magic on something better.