Dropping the Hammer

[Stygofthedump]

can someone tell me what damage a large earth elemental does dropping from 90 feet does?

"For each 200 pounds of an object’s weight, the object deals 1d6 points of damage, provided it falls at least 10 feet. Distance also comes into play, adding an additional 1d6 points of damage for every 10-foot increment it falls beyond the first (to a maximum of 20d6 points of damage)." SRD

Large earth Ele = 6000/200 =30d6 + 90 feet-10=8d6 (to max 20d6)
all totals 38D6? or does the max 20D6 apply to weight as well as height?

How about the elemental kicking off large chunks of the ceiling?

[Slipperychicken]

Large earth Ele = 6000/200 =30d6 + 90 feet-10=8d6 (to max 20d6)
all totals 38D6? or does the max 20D6 apply to weight as well as height?


That's right. The damage from height caps at 20d6, but the extra damage from weight is not capped.

As for dropping things on people, Heroes of Battle's "aerial bombardment" section makes it a ranged attack roll vs AC 5 to target a square precisely (range increment 50ft, with some modifications to hit for fly speed) and gives people a DC 15 reflex save to dodge the falling object.

[Ravens_cry]

That's right. The damage from height caps at 20d6, but the extra damage from weight is not capped.

As for dropping things on people, Heroes of Battle's "aerial bombardment" section makes it a ranged attack roll vs AC 5 to target a square precisely (range increment 50ft, with some modifications to hit for fly speed) and gives people a DC 15 reflex save to dodge the falling object.
What if the object is bigger than their square, conceivably even filling the actual whole square, such as if you dropped a gelatinous cube or chunks of metal or rock with such explicit dimensions?

[Slipperychicken]

What if the object is bigger than their square, conceivably even filling the actual whole square, such as if you dropped a gelatinous cube or chunks of metal or rock with such explicit dimensions?

Heroes of Battle is silent on the subject IIRC, but I'd probably houserule it as the same AC to drop it and hit precisely the desired squares (that is, using a 10x10 cube to hit a specific 10x10 area), and also inflict penalties to hit if the object size is truly ludicrous relative to the bomber's size. The reflex save would probably mean moving to an adjacent square. If there aren't any adjacent squares, then I might houserule the reflex save to increase by 5 or 10 (depending on circumstances), and success would probably mean something awesome like running up the side of the object to get on top of it, or dipping into rogue-space (just like how rogues dodge fireballs).

[Alefiend]

What if the object is bigger than their square, conceivably even filling the actual whole square, such as if you dropped a gelatinous cube or chunks of metal or rock with such explicit dimensions?

At the risk of slaughtering legions of catgirls, I would consider reducing the damage in such a case. The mass that's striking multiple squares will spread the impact over a wider area. The falling object/creature takes the full hit though.

[Artillery]

At the risk of slaughtering legions of catgirls, I would consider reducing the damage in such a case. The mass that's striking multiple squares will spread the impact over a wider area. The falling object/creature takes the full hit though.

In such a case increasing the size category of the object just gets better.

Going from medium to huge increases weight by x64 while only increasing the area it hits by x9. Net gain of killing ability.

It only gets more insane as size goes up, weight*(2^3)^n, where n is size category increases. Half-gaint Psychic Warrior Wrestler does massive damage with an elbow drop.

400lb base Half-giant with expansion to huge size, a 32ft tall person weighing 25600lb. 128d6 from weight alone spread over 9 squares, each person that gets smashed is 14d6 pulpier.

[Ravens_cry]

Not to mention you can make it taller as well as wider, but, yes, square cube law means net gain.
Despite being agile little snots, I guess the catgirls didn't make their reflex save verses falling .. . . MATHS! ! !:amused:

[Darrin]

That's right. The damage from height caps at 20d6, but the extra damage from weight is not capped.


The Rules Compendium changed this slightly. Max damage for any falling object, both by weight and by height, is capped at 20d6.

[Stygofthedump]

The Rules Compendium changed this slightly. Max damage for any falling object, both by weight and by height, is capped at 20d6.

Yep, Im pretty sure most sane DM's would do the same. Still 20D6 over an area is not a bad alpha strike...

[Meth In a Mine]

That's right. The damage from height caps at 20d6, but the extra damage from weight is not capped.

See also: Hulking Hurler.

[IIzak]

Just a quick question. How is he falling onto someone from that height? I just have this mental image of a giant earth elemental leaping all gracefully and just flopping on top of somebody.

[Slipperychicken]

Just a quick question. How is he falling onto someone from that height? I just have this mental image of a giant earth elemental leaping all gracefully and just flopping on top of somebody.

Players (and GMs) often forget that the rules require summoned creatures to appear on ground which can support them (or in water if they're aquatic), so you typically wind up with people dropping big creatures on each other until someone realizes that isn't RAW.

[Ravens_cry]

The Rules Compendium changed this slightly. Max damage for any falling object, both by weight and by height, is capped at 20d6.
Honestly, I think that's a little silly. 20-120 isn't enough to really be a threat past a certain level.

[Slipperychicken]

Honestly, I think that's a little silly. 20-120 isn't enough to really be a threat past a certain level.

To be fair, at those same levels, elephants aren't really a threat either. A character at those levels could probably punch one to death after running a marathon.

[Ravens_cry]

To be fair, at those same levels, elephants aren't really a threat either. A character at those levels could probably punch one to death after running a marathon.
Humans hunted elephants, even before guns. Heck, the megafauna of North and South America, which included creatures like mastodons, probably died off because the First Nations hunted them to extinction.
My problem is the cap is absurdly low.

[Telonius]

I agree that the cap is too low. To keep the discussion centered on elephants, a male African elephant weighs around 12,000 pounds. Let's put it in a cube crate, to make sure it's a standard shape with no terminal velocity differences.

Without the cap, that would be 60d6. But with the cap, it only does 20d6, no matter how far it falls.

If you packed 5,000 pounds into a single cubic crate, you'd do the same amount of damage.

A falling Nissan Cube (around 3800 lbs) would do almost as much damage (19d6) as a falling elephant, even though it weighs less than a third as much as the elephant.

[Alefiend]

words

It all comes back to hit points being a terrible model for real harm. As far as we are concerned, you are just as dead and unrecognizable when a car falls on you as when an elephant (or a sentient rockman) does. We are well into the realm of superheroes with this stuff.

Literally. When I used to play Champions in college, we had a saying: "I survived a terminal-velocity fall and all I got was this lousy T-shirt." Even Hero System, with its Stun, Body, and hit locations, didn't model it well. My first experience with TVF was as a street-level hero (basically a detective with powers) thrown off a skyscraper while tied to a chair. The pavement broke before I did.

Interestingly enough, TV in Hero System is also 20d6.