[3.P] What effects allow a saving throw?

[Yanisa]

Easy question:

What effects allow a saving throw? Except the effects already listed below.

Alchemy, Mundane (Alchemist's Fire, Flask of Acid)
Death from Massive Damage (Optional rule?)
Diseases
Drugs (Alchemy in 3.5?)
Environmental Hazards/Natural Hazards (Cold, Heat, Drowning, Starving, Fatigue)
Extraordinary Abilities (Death Attack, Stunning Fist, Stand Still(?))
Poisons
Spells
Spell-like Abilities
Supernatural Abilities (Breath weapons, Curses, Hexes, Gaze Attacks)
Traps, Mundane

Special notes:
Alcohol (Poison in 3.0, Drugs in Pathfinder, 3.5 pending)

[GoatBoy]

Traps, environmental hazards, supernatural abilities, extraordinary abilities, curses, death from massive damage, Stunning Fist...

"Saving throw" can be defined as "A creature's ability to avoid harm from anything that isn't a straight-up melee or ranged attack (or combat maneuver in the case of Pathfinder)." So, anything you can avoid that isn't one of those things.

[Urist]

I can think of Death Attack, Stand Still, massive damage, environmental damage(fort save to mediate the unpleasantness), non-magical explosions, traps, etc. list goes on.

Pretty much anything that doesn't attack AC will be hitting a save.

Edit:Swordsaged...

[Yanisa]

Traps, environmental hazards, supernatural abilities, extraordinary abilities, curses, death from massive damage, Stunning Fist...

"Saving throw" can be defined as "A creature's ability to avoid harm from anything that isn't a straight-up melee or ranged attack (or combat maneuver in the case of Pathfinder)." So, anything you can avoid that isn't one of those things.

Yeah, but most of them are uncommon, exceptional or depending on the DM come not into play. Like Mundane Traps, Environmetal Hazards... Death from Massive Damage (isn't that an optional rule?). Supernatural is one of the bigger ones I did not think of.

Also Curses? There are non magical curses?

For the background, I am making a dwarf monk, and with the disease immunity it feels like Hardy (that dwarf racial that gives +2 vs spells, spelllikeabilities and poison) works on all saving throws or atleast the ones my DM will often toss at me. I was pondering wheter I should keep it as a side note, or just add +2 to all my saves so I don't have to keep calculating for every combat with a rogue or wizard. (Yes, I am lazy.)

[Silentone98]

do fortitude saves for alcohol abuse.... do it,... you know you want to.

quick google shows arms & equipment guide... anyone have experience with this? lol

[Yanisa]

do fortitude saves for alcohol abuse.... do it,... you know you want to.

quick google shows arms & equipment guide... anyone have experience with this? lol

Yeah, Dwarf, I cannot avoid it.

In Arms & Equipment Guide [3.0] alcohol is a poison, but has some heavy penalties if you go to far with abuse. Atleast there are clear rules I almost know by heart.

In Pathfinder, the one I be playing, alhocol is a drug. Thus oddly the +2 from Hardy won't help dwarves drink alhocol (however their higher con wil). Also there are zero saves for alhocol unless the DM is like "you abuse alcohol regular, role to see if you get addicted."

For 3.5 the rules are in cityscape... and maybe also in the drunken monk archetype. I'm at work so I don't have the books to check those out.



Also drugs, another thing that allows saves and was not in my list.

[Corlindale]

For the background, I am making a dwarf monk, and with the disease immunity it feels like Hardy (that dwarf racial that gives +2 vs spells, spelllikeabilities and poison) works on all saving throws or atleast the ones my DM will often toss at me. I was pondering wheter I should keep it as a side note, or just add +2 to all my saves so I don't have to keep calculating for every combat with a rogue or wizard. (

Supernatural abilities are very common. Many gaze attacks and breath weapons are SU. Most witch hexes are SU. Many other class and monster powers are SU.

If you are lazy about calculating, you could write it like "Fort: +12 -2 vs. mundane attacks and (Su) abilities" instead of "Fort: +10 +2 vs. spells, spell-like abilities and poison". But I'm not even sure that the spell-like stuff outweighs the rest to an extent where it would make sense to do so.

We had a dwarf inquisitor with Steel Soul, and although his bonus was insane against anything spelllike, he would still be significantly threatened by Supernatural Abilities, and they did come up quite often. So I don't think you can get away with just assuming a general +2.

[Silentone98]

....

oooo, thanks for that info. Was unaware cityscape was the relevant authority on the matter. I gotta keep that in mind as I suspect it'll be a thing for one of my players soon. lol

as to the non-magical curse....
your confusion sounds more like it is because he didn't clump that into "spells" category? Curse's are broad enough topic that im sure theres material on it somewhere, but it'll still be magical I think.
But he was probably talking about cursed magic items. Some require saves.

[Yanisa]

oooo, thanks for that info. Was unaware cityscape was the relevant authority on the matter. I gotta keep that in mind as I suspect it'll be a thing for one of my players soon. lol.

Not sure what rules are in the book tbh, I haven't used it alot but I do know there were rules for alcohol.


as to the non-magical curse....
your confusion sounds more like it is because he didn't clump that into "spells" category? Curse's are broad enough topic that im sure theres material on it somewhere, but it'll still be magical I think.
But he was probably talking about cursed magic items. Some require saves.

I can see room for "mundane" or super-natural curses, especially because of the witch (pf-class) hexes.
I am curious wheter there are any 3.5 curses that are not spells.


Supernatural abilities are very common. Many gaze attacks and breath weapons are SU. Most witch hexes are SU. Many other class and monster powers are SU.

If you are lazy about calculating, you could write it like "Fort: +12 -2 vs. mundane attacks and (Su) abilities" instead of "Fort: +10 +2 vs. spells, spell-like abilities and poison". But I'm not even sure that the spell-like stuff outweighs the rest to an extent where it would make sense to do so.

We had a dwarf inquisitor with Steel Soul, and although his bonus was insane against anything spelllike, he would still be significantly threatened by Supernatural Abilities, and they did come up quite often. So I don't think you can get away with just assuming a general +2.

Your point is completly valid, especially when I realize there is also a lot of Extraordinary abilities, mostly from classes, that allow saving throws. For example we have an alchemist in the group and she was already suggesting to not trade in evasion for anything else. I am afraid I need to avoid a lot of splash damage. (Which is not magic as it turns out, but supernatural).

Pffft I guess I just need to use that brain thingy in my headskull and remember I got +2 vs spells and poisons. :smalltongue: