Girlfriend wants a UberCharger. Is this it?

[The Shadowdove]

Soooo, we're starting another campaign and the girly googled something about a super slam my Barbarian build.

She's just really gotten into d&d the last couple of months, so I found this kind of surprising.

This is what she came up with so far.

Human female

Bonus to str every 4 levels

Str:18
Dex: 15
Con: 17
Int: 5
Wis: 13
Cha: 13

Barbarian:
1- power attack / improved bull rush / spirit totem(lion)
3- intimidating rage
6- leap attack
9- shock trooper
12- improved critical

And that's as far as she got.

((((( edited build less barbarian more fighter)))))

Barbarian-
1- per atk/cleave/spirit lion totem

Fighter-
2- improved bull rush
3- exotic wpon prof(spiked chain)/weap focus(spiked chain)
5- great cleave
6- leap attack
7- shock trooper
9- weapon spec(spiked chain)/improved critical(spiked chain)

I have no idea how this works, I've never even used charge before.

1) Do you get to bullrush AND charge at once?

2) What is pounce?

3) What are we missing?

4) Is this even viable as a low level fighting technique?

5) what would the order of this look like in action?

6) how would one roleplay this in-game?



Thanks in advance everyone.

Your superior knowledge and experience are much appreciated !!!

-dove

[Swaoeaeieu]

1no (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm)
2 pounce gives you the power to charge and make a full attack (all attacks you can make because of a high BAB) instead of a normal charge wich let's you move and make a single attack.
3 A bonus to jump checks to make leap attack easier
4 Yes it is.
5 Looks like: Player starts a charge. Makes a jump check for a 10 feat leap. when succesfull she can full attack her opponent and the leap attack increases her damage
6 Play it like a big burly woman who starts to foam at the mouth when combat starts. And literally jumps towards her opponents to shred them to bits.

Spirit lion totem is great. add in whirling frenzy ACF for an extra attack.

Uberchargers can deal out massive amounts of damage to a single target. But if overdo it the rest of the party has nothing to do. Or you get a problem when multiple enemies show up. or if you don't have the room to make a charge.

all in all: For a charge build you could do better. But charge builds also have some problems that come along with them.

EDIT: Answer 1. No. should be yes. I was totally looking at the wrong thing. my bad

[eggynack]

Pounce allows you to charge and full attack, which increases combat mobility by a lot. Shock trooper allows you to apply the penalty from power attack to AC instead of to-hit on a charge, which allows you to take the maximum possible penalty, which lets you deal massive damage on the charging full attack. Damage multipliers, like leap attack, are damage multipliers, and they multiply damage. This lets you deal more damage. You are allowed to bull rush on a charge, and in fact get a +2 bonus to the check. That covers most of it.

As for the build, I'd get rid of intimidating rage unless you're picking up imperious command (DotU, 50), because that's what makes a barbarian intimidation build worth it, and I'd drop leap attack and shock trooper down by one, to 3rd and 6th level respectively. Maybe ditch improved critical too. Some other worthwhile things to do are trading rage for whirling frenzy (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/classFeatureVariants.htm#rageVariantWhirlingFrenzy ), which is awesome, and trading uncanny dodge for improved trip with wolf totem (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wolfTotemClassFeatures ). Maybe leave barbarian after two levels too, perhaps for a couple of fighter levels or something. Anyway, that's basically the basics of charging for fun and profit.

Edit:
1no (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/specialAttacks.htm)
That looks a lot like it says yes to me.

[The Shadowdove]

~~~~

I think that there are requirements preventing me from dropping leap attack and shock trooper down a level.

Am I missing something ?



Do you guys mind providing a couple of quick examples of similar builds?

It'd be nice to get a good idea of how this works ahead of time so that I can help her with it at first.

We wouldn't mind being useful from levels 1-6.

We have two DMS, and unfortunately the one who does this campaign has slow experience progression.


Thanks for all of the help everyone .

-Dove

[Firechanter]

Yes, min level for Leap Attack is 5 due to 8 skill ranks prereq.
Note that you can get the ubercharging shtick on line earlier if you dip into Fighter at level 5 to take Leap Attack, then Shock Trooper at 6, done.

You might also consider taking Whirling Frenzy as Barbarian ACF at 1.

The first weapon property you'll want after getting a +1 would be Valorous (doubles damage on a charge, multipliers stack as usual).

As for roleplay: no need to make it a "big burly woman". Pounce is a quality typically associated with cats, like Leopards, Tigers etc. So that character might, actually more reasonably, be a lithe warrior of catlike elegance.

[aldeayeah]

That looks a lot like it says yes to me.

You may charge and bull rush (anyone can charge and bull rush), but not charge, bull rush and attack/full attack. (You can do that with Knockback)

[The Shadowdove]

I read that spiked chain is the best for a charger.

Is the reach so much better than a raw damage weapon ?


If not the spiked chain, then what is the best weapon for a charger?

[PersonMan]

Very dextrous, plus rather strong, and very tough as well, does look like a sort of super-athlete rather than just a weightlifting pile of muscle to me. Muscles can be toned down, and with 15 Dex it's easy to say that they have been turned from big to lithe, almost spring-like.

[Immabozo]

I think that there are requirements preventing me from dropping leap attack and shock trooper down a level.

Am I missing something ?

Do you guys mind providing a couple of quick examples of similar builds?

It'd be nice to get a good idea of how this works ahead of time so that I can help her with it at first.

We wouldn't mind being useful from levels 1-6.

We have two DMS, and unfortunately the one who does this campaign has slow experience progression.

Thanks for all of the help everyone .

-Dove

You can bull rush and charge and attack, you just need to pick the right feats.

Personally, I would go for a large race, Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale is probably the best (3 RHD, +6 str, +4 dex, +4 con, +4 int, +6wis, +4 cha and size large, no penalties living on land). Otherwise, my past build was the same as the rest here. Whirling spirit lion totem barbarian x, fighter 4, bear warrior 1, war hulk 4, war shaper 5.

Pounce for all attacks on a charge, whirrling gives me +1 attack. Rage is +16 str, +12 (?) con, and other benefits. War hulk gives another +8 str, War Hulk also alows hitting 3 squares with each attack.

Feats were power attack, leap attack, endurance, steadfast determination (con instead of wis to will saves, dont fail fort saves on a 1) knock back (bull rush without moving on attacks, with a bonus from power attack), shock trooper and combat reflexes.

So I was swinging a +25ish to hit, a +55-60 bullrush after damage is dealt, hitting 3 squares, with 15ft reach and 6 or 7 AoO per round. Greatest AC ever is hitting people near you and throwing the across the battlefield and then they charge you and your AoO throws them back. No one almost ever got close to me, then with all D10 or D12 HD and a 34+ con, swinging over 350 hp, I never got close to death.

And then I did 80-100 damage per hit, to three squares, with 4 to 5 attacks.

[MadGreenSon]

Personally, I would go for a large race, Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale is probably the best (3 RHD, +6 str, +4 dex, +4 con, +4 int, +6wis, +4 cha and size large, no penalties living on land). Otherwise, my past build was the same as the rest here. Whirling spirit lion totem barbarian x, fighter 4, bear warrior 1, war hulk 4, war shaper 5.

:confused:

I'm sorry to butt in, and the build looks good, but I have to ask....
What would that even look like?

I know it wasn't a consideration when going for raw stats, but still. What does an Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale look like? If there's much RP in the game, what would one act like?

[Rejusu]

Do you guys mind providing a couple of quick examples of similar builds?

It'd be nice to get a good idea of how this works ahead of time so that I can help her with it at first.

We wouldn't mind being useful from levels 1-6.

Well here's one I made earlier (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=781291). However it's not complete and is a bit different to what your girlfriend is going for so I'll walk you through it.

First the feats, this build uses flaws so there's one more feat in there than you'd normally get access to. However the only reason I took Intimidating rage, destructive rage, and cleave is for entry into Frenzied Berserker so you can ignore those. Similarly Endurance and Steadfast Determination are only there because it's a Frenzied Berserker build and I needed a high will save. Knockback requires a large character or powerful build, neither of which you're getting without a level adjust. So just look at what's left. Leap attack is something I would have included if I'd had the room, and also extra rage.

Why extra rage? There's a good reason for that, you might notice the build has a lot of fighter levels. This is because it uses the dungeoncrasher variant from dungeonscape. This trades 2nd and 6th level bonus feats for a few nifty abilities including dealing damage when you bullrush enemies into solid objects. Taking fighter levels also helps you get a lot of feats good for a charger.

As for skills, that 7 in int is really going to hurt. Consider switching it with charisma. There's a couple of nice skill tricks (complete scoundrel) that help chargers a lot including one that lets you change direction and one that lets you charge over difficult terrain. These help alleviate one of the biggest obstacles to charging: requiring a straight clear path at the start of your turn. You'll also want ranks in jump for leap attack. Note that the skill tricks mentioned require balance and tumble. Balance is cross class so you're kind of screwed there but you can use the skilled city dweller ACF (web enhancement for cityscape) to swap ride (not useful unless you're going mounted combat) for tumble.

Hope this helps.

[hemming]

I read that spiked chain is the best for a charger.

Is the reach so much better than a raw damage weapon ?


If not the spiked chain, then what is the best weapon for a charger?

Spiked Chain - its a two-handed reach weapon that can attack adjacent squares and get some maneuver bonuses. Being able to full attack enemies 10' away keeps you less apt to provoke AoO and gives you more options when you can't charge

If she chooses to use another two-handed weapon for flavor reasons or raw dam it is ultimately not going to make a huge difference

Edit: you also get to threaten a wider range with your AoOs - giving you some zone controlling ability

[The Shadowdove]

Spiked Chain - its a two-handed reach weapon that can attack adjacent squares and get some maneuver bonuses. Being able to full attack enemies 10' away keeps you less apt to provoke AoO and gives you more options when you can't charge

If she chooses to use another two-handed weapon for flavor reasons or raw dam it is ultimately not going to make a huge difference

Edit: you also get to threaten a wider range with your AoOs - giving you some zone controlling ability

I guess that makes spiked chain better for nearly any two handed build....

Are there no higher damage items with similar reach?

[The Shadowdove]

The first weapon property you'll want after getting a +1 would be Valorous (doubles damage on a charge, multipliers stack as usual).
.



How much would a weapon like this cost?

The books says market price +1 bonus. No idea what any bonus costs.

I guess the price for a spiked chain and greataxe would be welcome knowledge

[Firechanter]

Who cares about higher damage dice? It's like "Thog smash for 1d12+354 damage!" - "I sure hope he rolls low on the d12".
Likewise, don't bother with crits, unless you spec specifically for critfishing, they are just noise in the system, and about 50% of all creatures are immune anyway.

And no, apart from some more obscure weapons from Dragon magazines (with even lower damage dice), the Spiked Chain is pretty much the only 3.5 weapon that threatens adjacent and reach simultaneously.

But it's really typical. Newbies to 3.5 will see the Spiked Chain's apparently poor damage stats and dismiss it, disregarding all the beautiful juicy special qualities it possesses. Which kinda makes the Spiked Chain the weapon of the Pros. =D
There's a lesson in here: a lot of things in D&D will look weak on paper but rule in play, and vice versa.

[Firechanter]

How much would a weapon like this cost?

The books says market price +1 bonus. No idea what any bonus costs.

I guess the price for a spiked chain and greataxe would be welcome knowledge

Then you should read up on the magic item creation guidelines. =)

The price of a magic weapon is:
Base price (usually ~15GP) + Masterwork or Special Material price + (bonus*bonus*2000GP). A magic weapon must always have at least a +1 Enhancement bonus before you can slap on additional properties. Due to the "Bonus Squared" bit, magic weapon prices rise exponentially.

So at the very least, a +1 Valorous Spiked Chain will cost 8325GP.

[The Shadowdove]

Then you should read up on the magic item creation guidelines. =)

The price of a magic weapon is:
Base price (usually ~15GP) + Masterwork or Special Material price + (bonus*bonus*2000GP). A magic weapon must always have at least a +1 Enhancement bonus before you can slap on additional properties. Due to the "Bonus Squared" bit, magic weapon prices rise exponentially.

So at the very least, a +1 Valorous Spiked Chain will cost 8325GP.

Ouch...

Will be fun acquiring.










Redid build with spike chain focus.

Took unnecessary focus/weapon spec/crit because I like more damage.


Dunno what else to take

[Dread_Head]

You'd be better off dropping the Weapon Focus line and leaving fighter behind after you've got the feats you need from it as those feats are pretty terrible. Taking a second level of barbarian for Improved Trip through Wolf totem (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#wolfTotemClassFeatures ) would be decent especially if you're using a spiked chain. A level of a variant alignment Paladin (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/classes/variantCharacterClasses.htm#paladinVariantsFreedom SlaughterAndTyranny) wouldn't actually be terrible on this build so you can use a wand of Rhinos Rush (Spell Compendium) in a wand chamber when you charge. Otherwise once you have Shocktrooper you've pretty much go the damaging part of your build down and you should look to adding some utility. I'd suggest either Ranger levels (Full BAB, decent skills and some spells) or a Barbarian Prc such as Runescarred Berserker which gives some nifty abilities.

The Extra Rage feat (Complete Warrior) would be pretty good as well if your not taking more than a level or two of Barbarian. Travel Devotion (Complete champion) would be good on this build as it allows you to move after charging to set up your next charge and avoid getting beat on your lower AC from Shocktrooper. If you can get large size somehow then Knock-down and Knock-back are glorious.

[Psyren]

:confused:

I'm sorry to butt in, and the build looks good, but I have to ask....
What would that even look like?

I know it wasn't a consideration when going for raw stats, but still. What does an Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale look like? If there's much RP in the game, what would one act like?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/he/2/2d/Pearl_Krabs.png

[The Insanity]

:confused:

I'm sorry to butt in, and the build looks good, but I have to ask....
What would that even look like?

I know it wasn't a consideration when going for raw stats, but still. What does an Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale look like? If there's much RP in the game, what would one act like?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q1mpdxuHNFw

[Chen]

An ubercharger will quickly get out of hand in terms of damage dealt, especially if you're just using monsters from the Monster's Manual. They will almost certainly 1 shot (or at worst 1 round) pretty much anything in there once they have a decent multiplier and power attack going on. While clearly still a one trick pony, it will make balancing combat fairly difficult if you have any other damage dealers around (if everyone else is a full caster its not so bad, but combat becomes pretty rough rocket tag).

[Azoth]

I am partial to Water Orc barb2 (pounce/imp trip)/ftr4/FB10/Full BAB 4

(flaw) Reckless Rage
(flaw) destructive rage
(1) Power Attack
(3) Cleave
(Ftr1) Imp Bullrush
(ftr2) Imp Sunder
(6) Leap Attack
(Ftr4) Shock Trooper
(9) Headlong Rush
(12) Combat Brute
(15) Battle Jump
(18) Free

Give this guy/gall a Valarous Lance and watch EVERYTHING it can reach end up as bloody chunklets on the battle ground floor.

Then again, all this build can do is charge things and hit them REDICULOUSLY hard. Every feat and class feature is tuned towards giving Power Attack extra multipliers to crank up its damage.

Lance deals x2 on a charge, Valarous makes that x3, Battle Jump x4, Leap Attack x5, Headlong Rush x6.

2 Hander turns PA into x2, Supreme Power Attack turns that to X4, Combat Brute turns it to x6 after the second round.

Now if we use 2 of those last 4 levels as fighter levels we can get Mounted Combat and Spirited Charge for another damage multiplier...but then we gotta wonder about the mechanics of jumping off of a mount mid charge before hitting our enemy...

*As an aside...this build is walking TPK and a true glass cannon. If enough enemies can reach him after his charge, he will flat out die due to having an AC of 0 or even in the negatives.*

[Darrin]

What does an Anthropomorphic Baleen Whale look like?


http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130220165740/skylanders/images/3/36/Thumpback_-_.jpg

"Hail to the Whale!" (http://skylanders.wikia.com/wiki/Thumpback)

[Psyren]

http://img3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130220165740/skylanders/images/3/36/Thumpback_-_.jpg

"Hail to the Whale!" (http://skylanders.wikia.com/wiki/Thumpback)

*sees teeth instead of baleen plates*
*twitches*

[Magikeeper]

He already has to pick a different totem for the pounce. I don't think switching totems is legal unless the pounce totem (which is in a different book, true) works differently from every other totem. Just working off memory for this one though.

-----------

If you use weapon groups from Unearthed Arcana you can gain spike chain proficiency without using a feat. If you can't use that, but can use a Duom from the Dragon Compendium volume 1, switch to the Duom. It's a bit worse but it isn't exotic. If you can't do either of those things, I guess taking a feat for spiked chain will have to do.

I really like making uberchargers, so here's somethings I've learned from past experience:

0. Figure out what the rest of the party is. Are they at least moderately optimized? If you deal 40 damage a round at level 2 are they going to be unhappy?

1. If you can take Battle Jump from Unapproachable East, do so. It's a regional feat so some DMs might have issues. The most important reason to take it is because it gives you another way to charge people. With a little optimization I find it to be a much easier way to charge people. If you can take it, Leap of the Heavens becomes a good feat to grab as well.

2. Shocktrooper is a tactical feat. People tend to ignore the other two abilities it grants, which is a shame as enemy bowling is possibly the most fun I've had with a melee PC. Making the most of those involves Large size, Knockback (feat), and Improved Trip (Feat)

3. You should be mostly done by level 8, even if you intend to take prestige dips like Ronin or something. A little later if you are in a very high-op group or are very restricted feat-wise. I find a great strength of ubercharging is that you can start investing in something else in the higher levels (as long as it has full BAB). Diversify.

---------------------------------

Class suggestions:

Whirling Spirit Lion Barbarian 1/Fighter 2/???

After this point ANY full BAB class could possibly work. A single warblade level to pick up Sudden Leap would be nice since uberchargers can make great use of a swift action repositioning.

If your group actually uses EXP multiclass penalties, don't take more than 2 levels in any base class. WotC Melee classes are virtually all front-loaded anyway. I mean, its usually optimal to be dip heavy anyway, but if your group dropped the penalty you don't need to be a crazy pile of classes.


Race Suggestions:
> If battle jump needs you to be a race actually common to the region instead of just being from that region (depends on DM), be one of those. Most DMs I have been under allows a similar region that actually exists in wherever the campaign is to count.

> Otherwise, be an orc or half-orc thanks to the amazingness of the Headlong Rush (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030301a) feat. Water Orc from unearthed arcana is the best for this.

> Large size can be acquired from the Half-Minotaur template from dragon magazine. +1 LA for a net +12 strength is great. A less obnoxiously strong option is the Half-Ogre template updated in races of destiny. There are other ways to do this as well.

-----
Feat Suggestions: You only want damage increasing feats that are reliable or deal lots of level/BAB based damage. Otherwise focus on feats that help you do more stuff in combat than just pile on even more damage. I have taken extra rage before, but it's not really a core part of the build IMO.

Flaws: If allowed, take two of them. Uberchargers love feats.
Fighter Dip: Do this. Uberchargers love feats.

Good feats to take:
A) Power attack, Improved Bullrush, Shocktrooper, Leap Attack
B) Battle Jump, Leap of the Heavens
C) Headlong Rush, Knockback, Improved Trip,
D) Cleave*, great cleave
E) (High-level) Lady's Gambit, whatever works with whatever you will be focusing on after setting up the ubercharge (Combat reflexes? Whatever <Prestige class X> requires? Etc, Etc)
F) (Always good if you have slots free somehow) - Planar Touchstone: Catalogs of Enlightenment: Pride Domain (Re-roll critical failures on saves!); Steadfast Determination (Con instead of Wis for Will saves, don't auto-fail on a 1 when making fort saves)

*You can get this from a magic item I believe. Possibly Great Cleave as well. Also, remember that a Wizard/Sorc can buff you with that level 2 spell that grants fighter bonus feats. I don't think I'd spend slots on them unless a prestige class needed them.


Lady's Gambit from dragon mag. #317 Requires Iron will (you can get iron will from Oytugh hole). Lets you take damage up to your level to get +1/2 that to attack and damage for a round. I find the +attack to be the most useful part of that at high levels (+6 to hit is quite nice).



-----------------------------

One last thing: There is no reason for a high-level Ubercharger to be a one-trick pony. The build has very few required class levels. At worst it eats all your feats.

[Draken]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/he/2/2d/Pearl_Krabs.png

That's a sperm whale.

Think it would be more like this.
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090520101038/bleach/en/images/8/83/Powwsrelease.jpg

[Psyren]

I'm guessing that's colossal though.

Still, Arrancar make a good case for anthropomorphic X.

[Inevitability]

Just a question, but which tier would such a charger be? I'm guessing tier 3 or 4, but what do you think?

[Magikeeper]

Just a question, but which tier would such a charger be? I'm guessing tier 3 or 4, but what do you think?

Arbitrarily large amounts of melee damage alone will not bring you out of tier four. However, an ubercharger has enough openings in its build to diversify. Tier three is not beyond its reach.

[Psyren]

Just a question, but which tier would such a charger be? I'm guessing tier 3 or 4, but what do you think?

T4: "Good at one thing, but that thing may not always be required." Massive amounts of damage and nothing else won't go higher than 4.

[The Shadowdove]

He already has to pick a different totem for the pounce. I don't think switching totems is legal unless the pounce totem (which is in a different book, true) works differently from every other totem. Just working off memory for this one though.

-----------

If you use weapon groups from Unearthed Arcana you can gain spike chain proficiency without using a feat. If you can't use that, but can use a Duom from the Dragon Compendium volume 1, switch to the Duom. It's a bit worse but it isn't exotic. If you can't do either of those things, I guess taking a feat for spiked chain will have to do.

I really like making uberchargers, so here's somethings I've learned from past experience:

0. Figure out what the rest of the party is. Are they at least moderately optimized? If you deal 40 damage a round at level 2 are they going to be unhappy?

1. If you can take Battle Jump from Unapproachable East, do so. It's a regional feat so some DMs might have issues. The most important reason to take it is because it gives you another way to charge people. With a little optimization I find it to be a much easier way to charge people. If you can take it, Leap of the Heavens becomes a good feat to grab as well.

2. Shocktrooper is a tactical feat. People tend to ignore the other two abilities it grants, which is a shame as enemy bowling is possibly the most fun I've had with a melee PC. Making the most of those involves Large size, Knockback (feat), and Improved Trip (Feat)

3. You should be mostly done by level 8, even if you intend to take prestige dips like Ronin or something. A little later if you are in a very high-op group or are very restricted feat-wise. I find a great strength of ubercharging is that you can start investing in something else in the higher levels (as long as it has full BAB). Diversify.

---------------------------------

Class suggestions:

Whirling Spirit Lion Barbarian 1/Fighter 2/???

After this point ANY full BAB class could possibly work. A single warblade level to pick up Sudden Leap would be nice since uberchargers can make great use of a swift action repositioning.

If your group actually uses EXP multiclass penalties, don't take more than 2 levels in any base class. WotC Melee classes are virtually all front-loaded anyway. I mean, its usually optimal to be dip heavy anyway, but if your group dropped the penalty you don't need to be a crazy pile of classes.


Race Suggestions:
> If battle jump needs you to be a race actually common to the region instead of just being from that region (depends on DM), be one of those. Most DMs I have been under allows a similar region that actually exists in wherever the campaign is to count.

> Otherwise, be an orc or half-orc thanks to the amazingness of the Headlong Rush (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20030301a) feat. Water Orc from unearthed arcana is the best for this.

> Large size can be acquired from the Half-Minotaur template from dragon magazine. +1 LA for a net +12 strength is great. A less obnoxiously strong option is the Half-Ogre template updated in races of destiny. There are other ways to do this as well.

-----
Feat Suggestions: You only want damage increasing feats that are reliable or deal lots of level/BAB based damage. Otherwise focus on feats that help you do more stuff in combat than just pile on even more damage. I have taken extra rage before, but it's not really a core part of the build IMO.

Flaws: If allowed, take two of them. Uberchargers love feats.
Fighter Dip: Do this. Uberchargers love feats.

Good feats to take:
A) Power attack, Improved Bullrush, Shocktrooper, Leap Attack
B) Battle Jump, Leap of the Heavens
C) Headlong Rush, Knockback, Improved Trip,
D) Cleave*, great cleave
E) (High-level) Lady's Gambit, whatever works with whatever you will be focusing on after setting up the ubercharge (Combat reflexes? Whatever <Prestige class X> requires? Etc, Etc)
F) (Always good if you have slots free somehow) - Planar Touchstone: Catalogs of Enlightenment: Pride Domain (Re-roll critical failures on saves!); Steadfast Determination (Con instead of Wis for Will saves, don't auto-fail on a 1 when making fort saves)

*You can get this from a magic item I believe. Possibly Great Cleave as well. Also, remember that a Wizard/Sorc can buff you with that level 2 spell that grants fighter bonus feats. I don't think I'd spend slots on them unless a prestige class needed them.


Lady's Gambit from dragon mag. #317 Requires Iron will (you can get iron will from Oytugh hole). Lets you take damage up to your level to get +1/2 that to attack and damage for a round. I find the +attack to be the most useful part of that at high levels (+6 to hit is quite nice).



-----------------------------

One last thing: There is no reason for a high-level Ubercharger to be a one-trick pony. The build has very few required class levels. At worst it eats all your feats.


How do you best take advantage of battle jump?

[Magikeeper]

On quoting: I would recommend quoting either the relevant sentence(s) of a long post or even doing something like:


<Interesting information about battle jump>

Or perhaps

@Magkeeper
<question>

Instead of having a quote pages longer than your actual post. :P

------

Battle jump: Well, battle jump lets you initiate charges by falling from at least 5' above an opponent (also deals x2 damage). An official ruling.. somewhere.. specifics that jumping above the opponent does indeed work. That's a DC 40 jump check for a medium opponent (if standing on the level ground), +20 for each size category larger than that.

Jump Checks:
> Race/template that increases strength.
> Take max ranks in jump.
> Take Leap of the Heavens so you don't need the running start.
> Increase speed (every 10ft above 30ft is +4 to jump!)
>> Expeditious Retreat is +12 jump right there*.
>> There are numerous other jump-boosting spells as well.
>> Some items increase speed.
>> The 'quick' trait from unearthed Arcana is +10ft for -1hp/level. Not a feat, you can have two traits.
>> If you have piles and piles of feats for some reason there technically are feats for this as well.

Once you have Leap of the Heavens you can basically jump in place (I like to imagine it as a flip) to initiate a charge. You can also leap over difficult terrain while doing a regular charge, which can be useful even again Colossal foes (Edit - you might need leap attack for this last bit. Not sure leaping during a normal charge technically works).

If all else fails you could have a caster buff you, teleport you, etc. above an opponent.



*If you want to be entirely self-sufficient, Duskblade offers Full BAB and Swift Expeditious Retreat. Swift action, lasts one round. Also helps ensure a first-round charge against distant foes. They get Jump(the spell) and True strike as well. You need INT for this though - I would swap swap that int stat for something else and go... hrm...
Whirling Lion Spirit Totem Barbarian 1/Fighter 2/Duskblade 2/Warblade 1/????

Maybe mix up those Duskblade/Fighter levels.


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Yet another edit: For the Warblade level you want to end up with Sudden Leap. I don't think it can trigger battle jump, but the ability to reposition yourself <jump check> distance away as a swift action is very nice for a charger.

[OldTrees1]

1) Do you get to bullrush AND charge at once?

1) Yes but not like that. The feat Knockback allows you to bull rush without moving after every power attack that hits.

[Magikeeper]

1) Yes but not like that. The feat Knockback allows you to bull rush without moving after every power attack that hits.

Combined with shocktrooper this turns all of your enemies into bowling balls. Add in improved trip for the full pins-knocked-into-other-pins effect.

---

What is going on with those stats, anyway? Is this dice rolling? Point buy? A 5 is really bad. It's either going to be mechanically painful (Dex/Wis) or RP painful (Cha). Most good races for this penalize mental stats further - a final cha of 8 is fine but a Cha of 3 is probably going to get you some looks.

[The Shadowdove]

How does leap of the heavens work?

[OldTrees1]

How does leap of the heavens work?

Normally the Jump check DCs are doubled if you do not have a running start (20ft). Leap of the heavens removes that doubling and instead gives you a +5 competence bonus if you did have a running start.

[Rakaydos]

How does the buid get Pounce? if it's some kind of barbarian range, what book is it in?

[eggynack]

How does the buid get Pounce? if it's some kind of barbarian range, what book is it in?
You use spirit lion totem (CC, 46) to trade fast movement for pounce.

[Rakaydos]

You use spirit lion totem (CC, 46) to trade fast movement for pounce.

Huh. Too bad a Monk cant get the same ACF...

[Inevitability]

That's because monks can't have anything... :smallfrown:

[Rejusu]

He already has to pick a different totem for the pounce. I don't think switching totems is legal unless the pounce totem (which is in a different book, true) works differently from every other totem. Just working off memory for this one though.

You can't change totems, however the spirit totem and the totem Barbarians are two separate Barbarian options. The totem Barbarian is from Unearthed Arcana and the spirit totem Barbarian is from Complete Champion and there isn't any crossover between them that would imply you can't have both a totem animal and a spirit totem animal. The problem is though that Wolf totem is a variant rather than an ACF, and while you lose trap sense (whoopdy doo) you also lose uncanny dodge and improved uncanny dodge for Track. So yeah...

Then again I'm not 100% on whether you can get out of that or not.

[The Shadowdove]

Normally the Jump check DCs are doubled if you do not have a running start (20ft). Leap of the heavens removes that doubling and instead gives you a +5 competence bonus if you did have a running start.


What kind of dcs would a medium character be looking at for every 5ft verticle jump then?

That way we can tell whether or not we've cleared the enemy enough to initiate a charge.


Edit:

I always believed jump was +5 DC per 5 foot square.

With battle leap and leap of the heavens do you just jump in place and strike your for?

Do they get an attack of opportunity because you're jumping in a threatened square?

[OldTrees1]

What kind of dcs would a medium character be looking at for every 5ft verticle jump then?

That way we can tell whether or not we've cleared the enemy enough to initiate a charge.


Edit:

I always believed jump was +5 DC per 5 foot square.

With battle leap and leap of the heavens do you just jump in place and strike your for?

Do they get an attack of opportunity because you're jumping in a threatened square?

If you have Leap of the Heavens OR run 20ft:
Vertical Jump DC = Distance(in feet) * 4
Hortizontal Jump DC = Distance(in feet) * 1

If you do not have Leap of the Heavens AND did not run 20ft:
Vertical Jump DC = Distance(in feet) * 4 * 2
Hortizontal Jump DC = Distance(in feet) * 1 * 2

So a 5ft vertical jump without running and without the Leap of Heaven feats is:
5 * 4 * 2 = DC 40.
If you run 20ft or have the Leap of Heaven feat
5 * 4 = DC 20.


What is battle leap? If you meant the Battle Jump feat, just forget it. It is not worth it.

Leaving a threatened square (such as jumping 5ft) causes an Attack of Opportunity.

[Magikeeper]

What is battle leap? If you meant the Battle Jump feat, just forget it. It is not worth it.

Bwah?! How is a feat that lets you charge in many situations you might not otherwise be able to - say, any situation where you are too close to your target and don't have a sudden leap maneuver to burn - not worth it?


Leaving a threatened square (such as jumping 5ft) causes an Attack of Opportunity.

Yep. And the Headlong Rush feat passes a free AoO to all of your opponents anyway. That's another reason to go Large size + a reach weapon. Giving your opponents AoOs doesn't matter if you usually out reach them.

I think you can tumble though. (When jumping, I mean. Tumble does nothing for headlong.)

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Wolf totem: Really? Well, in that case go:
Whiling spirit lion totem barbarian 1/Duskblade 2/fighter 2/Warblade 1/barbarian 1

And pick the wolf totem substitution for that second level of barbarian to gain improved trip. With flaws that build will likely set you up for the rest of your adventuring career. Take whatever you want after that as long as it is full BAB. Heck, you can lose a BAB if you need to. Be a gish. Go skillmonkey. Whatever you want.

EDIT: Build assumes you dump something besides INT, as noted before.

[OldTrees1]

Bwah?! How is a feat that lets you charge in many situations you might not otherwise be able to - say, any situation where you are too close to your target and don't have a sudden leap maneuver to burn - not worth it?


You do remember the reason for charging right? It is to enable a full attack when you are further than a 5ft step away. If they are too close to charge then they are within a 5ft step away.

So:
10ft or further = move and full attack (via charge + pounce)
5ft = 5ft step and full attack
0ft = full attack

Battle Jump is not necessary.

[Siosilvar]

You do remember the reason for charging right? It is to enable a full attack when you are further than a 5ft step away. If they are too close to charge then they are within a 5ft step away.

So:
10ft or further = move and full attack (via charge + pounce)
5ft = 5ft step and full attack
0ft = full attack

Battle Jump is not necessary.

Difficult terrain?

[The Shadowdove]

. ~~Leaving a threatened square (such as jumping 5ft) causes an Attack of Opportunity.

Thanks.


This means jumping high enough to charge from a standing position is actually difficult ...


The chances of getting high enough at level 7 with max jump is still pretty slim.

That's.. 11+4str.

With a DC of 40 to get a 5ft drop on them for double damage.

So, you might as well not jump unless you have a ring or boots of jump 15-20+.

So battle jump is almost only useful when used with its designed purpose. Jumping off of things...

Right?

[Rejusu]

Difficult terrain?

The nimble charge skill trick sorts that out. And yeah you don't really need to charge if you're within beating range anyway. You'd probably do less damage faffing around trying to charge every round. Besides the battle jump feat is weirdly worded, it's not really clear whether you have to actually drop down on top of them or whether you can use a jump to execute it. If that's the case it makes it even more useless.

[OldTrees1]

Difficult terrain?

It is true that you cannot 5ft step to an opponent 5ft away through difficult terrain. However if difficult terrain is a problem then how are you an ubercharger again?


Thanks.

This means jumping high enough to charge from a standing position is actually difficult ...

The chances of getting high enough at level 7 with max jump is still pretty slim.

That's.. 11+4str.

With a DC of 40 to get a 5ft drop on them for double damage.

So, you might as well not jump unless you have a ring or boots of jump 15-20+.

So battle jump is almost only useful when used with its designed purpose. Jumping off of things...

Right?

Well Battle Jump requires you be 5ft above your opponent so that is 10ft off the ground or a DC 80 check.

If your goal is to gain 3D charging and double your damage, become a Dragonborn [Races of Dragon] or be born as a Raptorian [Races of the Wild]. Both of those get flying and deal double damage with piecing weapons on a flying charge. These are both drastically better than Battle Jump.

[The Glyphstone]

So Battle Jump basically makes you a Dragoon, then.

[Magikeeper]

So battle jump is almost only useful when used with its designed purpose. Jumping off of things...

Right?

As I noted before, +speed increases jump. Every 10ft beyond 30ft = +4 jump. 5 ranks in tumble is another +2.

Just to give as an example, take a water orc with the quick trait a base strength of 18 has a base speed of 40ft (+4 jump) and a final strength of 22. At level 2 this PC can have:
+5 Ranks
+6 str mod
+2 tumble synergy
+4 speed
+2 masterwork tool. (50gp, maybe good shoes or something)

For a total of +19 to jump. If you cast swift expeditious retreat for +30 speed that gives you a total of +31 to jump. This is not full-proof, and takes a spell, but it is still at level 2. Rage/Whirling also give +4 str, so that is another +2 to jump.

At level 7 that same PC has +24 to jump before any magic items or buffs at all. Even without self-buffs the party caster could just haste you or something to hit +38.

Lots of cheap magic items help jumping as well - anything that increases speed increases jump as well.

A half minotaur water orc would be much better, of course. :P

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Also, I thought 18 was just your base stat. Is this after some racial mod? Furthermore, is there some race she specifically wants to be? Seriously, this is very important for a charger. If we are stuck with a non-orc medium-sized creature I can revise my feat suggestions here.


-------

I second that skill trick with or without battle jump. The more ways a charger can charge, the better. If you can change that INT score I would seriously recommend doing so.

On faffing around:

If he has a valorous weapon, shocktrooper, and pounce it is painfully unlikely he could do even close to his charging damage without charging. That's not even assuming stuff like headlong rush and the battle jump multipliers.

Also, the Sudden Leap maneuver is a great reposition that makes boosting that jump check worth it anyway. And +speed helps you charge from the get go as well. Or flee, for that matter.

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On dragonborn and raptorians:

I can't argue with flight being awesome, it is. It doesn't let you charge an opponent you are standing in front of though. Nor does it let you 'charge' without moving in a straight line.

You also lose access to Headlong Rush, and get stuck with using piercing weapons. Furthermore, Raptorians only have average maneuverability. That's not very good. They don't increase strength either.

[The Shadowdove]

Also, I thought 18 was just your base stat. Is this after some racial mod? Furthermore, is there some race she specifically wants to be? Seriously, this is very important for a charger. If we are stuck with a non-orc medium-sized creature I can revise my feat suggestions here.

[/spoiler]

She's a human. Straight up human out of choice.

She's had a halforc elf and halfling and just wants to go human really badly.