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darthpower
2007-02-01, 03:51 PM
ok so i tried to run an eberron campaign and after killing 9 warforged my party got they idea that they should steal the armor that covers them only the adamantine one of coures which is 3 of them what do i do with out saying that they decay i realy dont want to use that

oriong
2007-02-01, 04:00 PM
Well, give it to them.

First, they don't get adamantine armor from this: warforged have armored bodies, that doesn't mean that you can just rip the plates off and wear them. At best all the party has now is some raw adamantine.

Second, nothing in the Adamantine body description gives a specific amount of adamantine that the warforged is 'wearing' or it's state. Perhaps the adamantine is heavily alloyed with iron or other metals, perhaps it is impure, or there just isn't a whole lot of it. Just figure out roughly how many pounds of raw, usuable adamantium is left over and let the PCs have that. Perhaps some random roll for each warforged (2d10 pounds each maybe?)

Now, one pound of adamantium is worth 100 gp, so the players have some raw materials that they can sell for 50 gp a pound (or less since it's not in very good condition), or it could be used to help defer the cost of making adamantine armor or weapons (Which is still going to cost them a ton of money and time). Your players won't be overpowerd by a few hundred or even a couple of thousand extra GP, and they deserve it for thinking of something clever like that.

To keep things a bit in line you might tone down the next treasure or two they find to keep them from rolling in dough, and don't make the same mistake again: think about the consequences when you send enemies made from precious metals at the party.

darthpower
2007-02-01, 04:02 PM
ok so i tried to run an eberron campaign and after kill about 9 warforged the PC thought it would be a good idea to skin the ones with adamantine bodys three of them will there lvl 1 and that much gold will kill everything how can i stop them with out saying that the bodys decay i realy dont like that rule.

help me

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-02-01, 04:04 PM
Also, might I suggest that prying it off their cold, dead bodies might be a little... hard? It isn't just on them- it's more or less permanently attached. It's probably also molded together without joints in some places since it was never meant to be removed. That means they'll have to really dig into it and break the adamantium before they can get it off, and after that it'd be nearly useless without some rebuilding by a good smith.

It would need to be melted down, too. So the PC's would have trouble smithing it themselves.

darthpower
2007-02-01, 04:06 PM
opps this thread is here twice what do i do

Viscount Einstrauss
2007-02-01, 04:10 PM
Pray to the gods for aid.

I mean ask a moderator.

Accolon
2007-02-01, 04:15 PM
A Warforged isn't wearing adamantine armor. It's crafted into part of its body. You can't strip down an Iron Golem of its "armor", and the same applies to a warforged. Pulling apart the warforged should require a character with Profession Blacksmith or Armorer, and then a very high DC at the very least. Also I agree that even if the party could get the warforged apart, it would take a very talented smith to turn it into anything worthwhile. And that kind of work doesn't come for free.

Nerd-o-rama
2007-02-01, 04:16 PM
First, don't post the exact same topic twice in quick succession. EDIT: I see it was an accident. PM a moderator, or just wait for one to take notice.

Second, there's the fact that skinning sentient beings for profit is pretty clearly evil. Now, assuming your characters don't care (or better yet, argue that it doesn't count 'cause they're Warforged), there's what Einstrauss said. Warforged with the "Adamantine Body" feat don't just have bolt-on Adamantine Full-plate. It's essentially their skin, and a large part of their skeleton. Possibly more of their skeleton, depending on how exactly you flavor the Adamantine Body feat. Anyway, it'll be damn hard to get more than small chunks of forged adamantine off of the guys.

Next, just what do they plan to do with scraps of forged adamantine? Admittedly, they might be able to sell them to a smith (not a reputable one, if he knows where they come from) but I always figured most of the cost of Adamantine items came from the incredible cost of actually alloying and forging useful things out of it. I mean, it's basically the hardest metal around. You'd need some sort of superheated magical fire, at least. Thus, already-cast Adamantine that you have to reprocess would almost be more trouble than its worth, and the smith would pay them hardly more than he would for scrap iron.

And finally, you could just employ Keith Baker's Unofficially-sanctioned Cop-out Method: Warforged bodies, even the parts made out of metal, decay after death as the magic that created them leaves their bodies. The adamantine would rust away within days.

If all else fails, this is what platoons of angry Warforged Juggernauts are for.

oriong
2007-02-01, 04:20 PM
A good option might be require the PCs (or some NPC willing to do the work for the cut of the pay) to make a Craft (armor-smithing) or Warforged repair against DC 15 to get anything off the warforged's body. 1 pound plus an additional pound for every 2 points they beat the DC by. Probably takes anywhere from 15 minutes to an hour.

That means that taking 20, with no modifiers to the Craft roll they could manage about 3 pounds per warforged, maybe as much as 5 pounds if they get any bonuses. Of course this could mean days of work.

Then they have a minimum of about 300 gp worth of adamantine per warforged. so about 2700 gp worth of adamantine which can be sold back for 1,350 gp. That's hardly going to break the PC economy.

Alternatively the 2700 gp could be used directly to pay for raw materials for adamantine armor/weapons, assuming the PCs have the skills to craft this stuff at all.

Tommer_man
2007-02-01, 04:42 PM
Well The best answer is, Don't Try to ask for help on One of my Haunts C-man.

If you have no idea who I am then I am deeply sorry. Truley this situation is VERY similar to one I was in not long ago. But if you ARE the man in question then...

You can't try the Cop out method because Sentinal would know about this magical decay. Also removal of the adamantine is indeed made easy, because of Aym's Vestige, and Sentinal's adamantine natural attack. Second, we need the damn money. having 200Gp at second level is only 22% of what the wealth by level chart dictates. Sure this chart is used at DM discression, but unless you want underpowered players (who drop like flies in your games) then atleast give us a nice reward, not the shiney pennies the modual gives us.

On another note, I disaprove of looting scenery but I don't like being poor. Thats what vow of poverty is for.

Matthew
2007-02-01, 04:44 PM
How exactly are they going to 'skin' the War Forged?

darthpower
2007-02-01, 04:45 PM
ok one thing is that mithral is worth 500 lb and adamantine is more valuble so i figured out it value at 2000 a lb

becase light armor mithral is 1000 and adamantine like armor is 5000

oriong
2007-02-01, 04:48 PM
Mithral isn't worth 500 gp per pound, that's the cost for CRAFTED mithral. So a mithral item (like a statue) would cost 500 gp per pound.

Raw mithral (chunks of metal, or ingots) and raw adamantium are both worth only 100 gp per pound.

The reason adamantium items are more expensive is because it's a hell of a lot harder to craft something with Hardness 20, but the raw material of both is just as valuable.

broderickdruce
2007-02-01, 04:52 PM
A number of the suggestions above are good one. The metal would be difficult to remove in the first place, then to avoid over-treasuring the party just deduct the amount they sell the stuff for from the next batch of treasure. Then as mentioned the act seems pretty evil to me. it is very much akin to killing some humans, then skinning them to make leather jackets. Not a Good thing to do, even if you give said jackets to some orphans. Then of course there is always the vengeance factor, Other warforged from the same Model-Line(Family) as the cannibalised ones may want all the parts returned for a proper dissassembly (Funeral), so they can get mad and go on a rampage until the parts are returned.

Now for the players, If you are intent on selling off the metals for money I believe it is also stated somewhere in the Eberron setting that Warforged are mainly made of wood, Darkwood to be exact. That can fetch a pretty penny aswell.

oriong
2007-02-01, 04:58 PM
I don't think the darkwood would be worth anything, it's already been crafted into specific shapes and forms and odds are none of those shapes are suitable to be carved into something new and useful except maybe decorations (which certainly won't go for the full darkwood price). Since darkwood can't be melted or reforged into anything new (Even Wood Shape would only help with the largest pieces) and has just been hacked/burned/maimed by the warforged's demise I doubt it has any real value left except maybe as scrap.

Tommer_man
2007-02-01, 05:03 PM
Exactly correct. But the real issue at hand is wether or not this is the right way to go about a game? Arn't the mithril body/ Adamantine body feats supposedly rare in the Eberron world? What sense does it make to throw more of the same problem at the Pc's again and again? What's the point of several heavily armored warforged going up against pc's in the first place?

nather man
2007-02-01, 05:10 PM
ok well if this is cat-man then we the player made the mistake of going on the quest he set us

broderickdruce
2007-02-01, 05:15 PM
I don't think the darkwood would be worth anything, it's already been crafted into specific shapes and forms and odds are none of those shapes are suitable to be carved into something new and useful except maybe decorations (which certainly won't go for the full darkwood price). Since darkwood can't be melted or reforged into anything new (Even Wood Shape would only help with the largest pieces) and has just been hacked/burned/maimed by the warforged's demise I doubt it has any real value left except maybe as scrap.

But there is Repair damage to fix the burnt/hacked parts, then using Woodshape or Fabricate (though high level especially in eberron) you could do a lot with it still, Just sell it to house DeCanneth (I belive those are the crafters).

Tommer_man
2007-02-01, 05:18 PM
Its actually just Canneth, no De in it. Although it would sound better as Decanneth

oriong
2007-02-01, 05:29 PM
But there is Repair damage to fix the burnt/hacked parts, then using Woodshape or Fabricate (though high level especially in eberron) you could do a lot with it still, Just sell it to house DeCanneth (I belive those are the crafters).

Fabricate could probably work actually. Shape wood is still a problem since it can't merge pieces or anything like that.

So, let's say 1/4th of a warforged's 300 pound body is darkwood by mass, that's about and probably would require a craft check to sucessfully get it out too. That's about 75 pounds of darkwood. Darwood is worth 10 gp a lb, and in this condition it's probably only worth 5, so maybe about 350 gp a warforged with the right crafting roll...but reasonably you'd subtract the cost of a fabricate spell required to actually do anything with it, that's about 500 gp all by itself.

Arbitrarity
2007-02-01, 06:03 PM
Excellent point Matthew :D

20 hardness, so overcome DR, make a dexterity check to actually get the stuff off in one piece, and If they make it through that stuff, you can say something cheesy like "The impurity of the original composite body mixed with the adamantine renders it unusable."

Wait a minute, level one characters can't do 20 damage without criticals :D.
I hope 0.o

The_Snark
2007-02-01, 06:09 PM
Yeah... ask them how they're gonna skin that. Skinning an animal, sure. Skinning adamantine, no.

Also, the warforged aren't made of adamantine, just layered with it. It's like trying to scrape off and sell gold leaf. Meaning it's going to take some sort of skill, quite a lot of time, and won't be worth as much as it seems like it would have been in the first place.

And if they try to get help with the skinning, they're going to have to find someone who doesn't mind skinning sentient beings. Plothook, right there.

If they do manage it...? Some thin scraps of adamantine, useable only to sell as raw material. Not very much raw material, at that. Give them a few hundred gold for it, it's not like it'll set them that far ahead, and then reduce the treasure they get from the next few encounters.

SpiderBrigade
2007-02-01, 07:06 PM
Yeah, think about for instance computer components. Lots of precious stuff in there, right? Gold, silicon, what have you. Or a high-end car might be a better example, with parts that are made out of titanium, carbon fiber, high-tech alloys that cost a lot of money.

Point being, you can't just go at it with an axe and get salable materials out of there. There's a lot of work involved, and it's only worth it in bulk.

That gives me a very Eberron-like idea, actually. Might there not be a an entire (underground, obviously) industry devoted to rendering down slain Warforged into their elements? If your players are really committed to making a profit from these corpses, give them an oportunity to get involved with Vinnoloth the Mechanic and his black-market "chop shop." Not only can they get what they want (some gold) but it opens up a whoooole lot of plot hooks.

daggaz
2007-02-01, 07:15 PM
Not only is it hard to do, and time intensive... but where did they die? Is there anything that can come along and sort of, you know, scare the PC's away? (hey, if they are interested in the idea, why not somebody else? Just make the CR slightly too hard for them so they try and fight and realize they have to run. Its railroading, but only just.. )

That, or let them waste some time wrecking their weapons to get a small amount of highly contaminated adamantium (which should weigh them down as well)... when they get it into town, the local blacksmith either has no idea how to use it, or tells them its impure and they have to go through a long, and overly costly ritual to purify it. If they do, well, they have just enough to forge a dagger.

Thomas
2007-02-02, 12:48 AM
The unofficial WotC answer, I believe, is that warforged bodies "decompose" somehow, becoming worthless. It's also the only answer that really makes sense.

The_Snark
2007-02-02, 01:14 AM
Yeah, think about for instance computer components. Lots of precious stuff in there, right? Gold, silicon, what have you. Or a high-end car might be a better example, with parts that are made out of titanium, carbon fiber, high-tech alloys that cost a lot of money.

Point being, you can't just go at it with an axe and get salable materials out of there. There's a lot of work involved, and it's only worth it in bulk.

That gives me a very Eberron-like idea, actually. Might there not be a an entire (underground, obviously) industry devoted to rendering down slain Warforged into their elements? If your players are really committed to making a profit from these corpses, give them an oportunity to get involved with Vinnoloth the Mechanic and his black-market "chop shop." Not only can they get what they want (some gold) but it opens up a whoooole lot of plot hooks.

Vinnoloth the Mechanic... rendering dead bodies... sounds like a yugoloth-run business to me, there. Could be a very interesting plot hook. And they aren't getting any more reward out of it than they deserve for managing to bargain and work with the yugoloths, that's for sure.

Ninja Chocobo
2007-02-02, 02:29 AM
You could just not give them any loot for a while, or make the bodies extremely hard to sell. Like, put them in a Warforged city and a Zone of Truth and ask them where they got them. BAM!
Also, could you please look up "Grammar" in the dictionary?

Darkshade
2007-02-02, 02:38 AM
your PCs are sick man
at least when my SR3 Predator chracter kills people and skins their bodies he has the decency to only sell their organs and cyberware and not there skin or bones! those are what he got the Taxidermy skill for.


oh and those refrigerated body bags to preserve the corpses while he carts them off to his black clinic contact.


wait... I'm sicker than your PCs... never mind!

Thomas
2007-02-02, 02:44 AM
I don't believe there's a Cyberpunk player alive who hasn't sold body parts, organs, and cyberware that's still got blood and nerve-endings on it.

Kyrsis
2007-02-02, 03:20 AM
My players wanted to do the same thing and I pretty much gave them the same answers others have posted: time consuming, there are other things in there making it worthless, required skill and moral issues. I think the problem back then, for them, was that Warforged were new to them and they thought of them as mindless monsters.
If I was running a group of immoral/evil players I would let them, though they'd still have to ask themselves, is the time and effort worth it to gather any precious metals and let them deal with the consequences if they tried to sell to the wrong vendor. I'd also make it a skill check.

Darkshade
2007-02-02, 04:01 AM
I don't believe there's a Cyberpunk player alive who hasn't sold body parts, organs, and cyberware that's still got blood and nerve-endings on it.

but how many of them carried around refrigerated body bags to put the valuable corpses in so that the whole thing could be taken to the clinic?
and seriously how many other Shadowrunners actually invested in taxidermy?

Thomas
2007-02-02, 04:20 AM
but how many of them carried around refrigerated body bags to put the valuable corpses in so that the whole thing could be taken to the clinic?
and seriously how many other Shadowrunners actually invested in taxidermy?

Most Cyberpunk players I know just invested in a mono-knife... but most of them did carry body bags (or, more typically, they had a van with a lot of ice boxes).

It's a Sick, Sad World!

Ravenscroft
2007-02-02, 08:32 AM
my party got they idea that they should steal the armor that covers them
only the adamantine one of coures which is 3 of them
what do i do with out saying that they decay
i realy dont want to use that
You can in fact say that the Adamantine Plating decays.
Keith Baker answered this question in a Dragonshard , iirc.
If not , the Wizards Boards will have a link to a Warforged FAQ.
(if i could find it immediately , i would post the link)

Roland St. Jude
2007-02-02, 01:54 PM
Sheriff of Moddingham: The OP double posted his thread and people subsequently replied to both. I've merged them into what is probably now an incomprensible mess, but I didn't really have a basis to keep one over the other, so...carry on, I guess.

Leadfeathermcc
2007-02-02, 02:05 PM
Warforged are formed in the creation forges, which channel the powers of Cannith heirs to produce effects similar to major creation and fabricate. The materials of the warforged are not truly natural; this is reflected by the ability of a warforged juggernaut to change its shape over time (growing spikes), or the fact that an armorer can repair a mithral warforged even when he doesn't have any mithral on hand. An important side effect of this is that if material is removed from the body of a warforged, it quickly degrades. As a result, stripping a warforged and selling its metal is impossible; a warforged may have adamantine components, but these will rust and pit when they are pulled from the warforged.Dragonshard, The Warforged, Part One (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20050627a)

Nerd-o-rama
2007-02-02, 02:35 PM
Ah, so it's the official Keith Baker Cop-out Method.

Someone above (thread merges make my brain sad) mentioned that one could posit an entire underground "chop-shop" market for slain Warforged. This idea, while kinda sick, is sick in a "generates lots of plothooks" kind of way.

Matthew
2007-02-02, 02:55 PM
Yeah, I like it. I'm thinking pollution, danger to slave workers, etc...