Cure Spells, Combat Relevancy, and Ease-Of-Use

[Fax Celestis]

So cure x wounds spells are pretty much a waste of time in combat. Keeping the same structure (CLW is a 1st level spell, CMW is a 2nd, etc.), what kind of changes could you make to the individual cure spells to make them more combat-appealing?

Making them ranged touches, maybe? Augmenting the dice from +1d8/tier to +2d8/tier? Uncapping the CL bonus? Making them AOEs and making the MCXWs different (ie: not just a mass CLW, but instead does a CLW and some other stuff)?

I thought that making them percentage-based (CLW heals 20% of the target's HP, CMW does 30%, CSW heals 40%, etc.), but math at the table is terrible. 4e used a healing surge value which worked okay but was very strongly a game mechanic and not very organic-feeling.

[Eldariel]

Simply? Increase the numbers. Those spells have the exact same problem as damage spells in 3.X: they have the same numerical effect as in AD&D but everything has like 2-10 times more HP in 3e leading to the relative benefit being a fraction of what it was in AD&D (where they were castworthy some of the time). You could easily double all those numbers or the give the CL a high multiplier or whatever and it'd be fine.

Other than that, swift action is the only real option that makes them viable. It's not slot-efficient, but action efficiency can vindicate slot efficiency on at all higher levels, as seen with e.g. Immediate Action defensive spells that do less than Standards but have the cast speed advantage.

[Silva Stormrage]

Simply? Increase the numbers. Those spells have the exact same problem as damage spells in 3.X: they have the same numerical effect as in AD&D but everything has like 2-10 times more HP in 3e leading to the relative benefit being a fraction of what it was in AD&D (where they were castworthy some of the time). You could easily double all those numbers or the give the CL a high multiplier or whatever and it'd be fine.

Other than that, swift action is the only real option that makes them viable. It's not slot-efficient, but action efficiency can vindicate slot efficiency on at all higher levels, as seen with e.g. Immediate Action defensive spells that do less than Standards but have the cast speed advantage.

Maybe allow the spells to give you a swift action ranged heal for like 1 round/level or so? Capping at whatever CL is normal for the spell? So cure light wounds would give you a swift ranged heal every round for 5 rounds?

[docnessuno]

A possible fix (but one that would slow the game down a bit) is the one you proposed:

A cure X spell heals Xd8 HP + (10*X)% of the target maximum HPs.

Or you could base it on the CASTER maximum HP (this way the character could not the value down and it would seldomly have to be recalculated).

[Eldariel]

Maybe allow the spells to give you a swift action ranged heal for like 1 round/level or so? Capping at whatever CL is normal for the spell? So cure light wounds would give you a swift ranged heal every round for 5 rounds?

You could do that, yes. It's really just a matter of numbers but in general, swift action is not bad provided it doesn't take a standard action to cast (also funny interaction with persistent spell but I guess healing all day isn't the biggest abuse of that feat).


A possible fix (but one that would slow the game down a bit) is the one you proposed:

A cure X spell heals Xd8 HP + (10*X)% of the target maximum HPs.

Or you could base it on the CASTER maximum HP (this way the character could not the value down and it would seldomly have to be recalculated).

You could also do that, but I think percentile healing or in general, character HP-based healing is just too much work for too little gain to be solid game design. There are enough variables without having to calculate separate healing values for each different Cure-spell due to them wanting to use percentiles. Or rather, I don't think the advantages are worth it. What's really the advantage of using percentiles over just using sufficiently large numbers to make the spells worthwhile in general? Slight customization, but even that goes both ways.

[Jeff the Green]

Maybe allow the spells to give you a swift action ranged heal for like 1 round/level or so? Capping at whatever CL is normal for the spell? So cure light wounds would give you a swift ranged heal every round for 5 rounds?

Yeah, that could work. Close range, standard action casting, swift action to heal the same amount to another (or same) ally each round thereafter. Plus double the healing for the first round. So CLW would heal 2d8+2/CL max +10 on the first round, then 1d8+CL max +5 for CL max 4 rounds.

It blows lesser vigor out of the water, but I'm okay with that.

[Ellowryn]

The way i see it is cure spells lose out mostly because the ratio of dice healed to character level falls off fast. What i mean is cure light at 1st level heals 1d8+1 which on average will heal 5 Hp which is usually half of a 1st level character, but by the time you get to the next rank, cure moderate, you are level 3 but only healing 2d8. This continues to repeat down the line for all the non-mass cure spells. Why bother spending a standard action to cast a spell that will not even heal someone half their Hp even if maximized?

The easy fix?

Make it sorta like heal, 1d8+1 per level, with the level cap of the normal spell. That way cure stay relevant throughout 20 levels and makes the mass versions worth slotting, or spontaneously casting.

Can this be broken? Its harder to find spells/fixes that cant be, and it does kinda compete with the heal spell itself but technically the heal the spell is better unmetamagiced, but overall this should make the cures spell worthwhile, and useful to cast in combat now that you can get a useful amount of healing.