Need an Idiots Guide [D&D & PF]

[TheLastSane1]

Ok after being in much talks in the What is so bad about monks? thread I want to try a Swordsage out. But I am a complete dunce when it comes to the class. So if someone could provide me with an idiots guide to it then I would be glad.

I want to build a Swordsage as close a monk focus as possible using the Unarmed Adaptation.

[(Un)Inspired]

The various handbooks are always a good place to start,

I like this one http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=196531

It's not complete but the opinions expressed are good. I've finally convinced my group to check out Tome of Battle and it's worked out great.

We play a pathfinder game that is fully inclusive of 3.5 material and my little brother is playing and awesome catfolk pathfinder ninja/swordsage and my good friend is playing a pathfinder paladin/crusader/RKV

[TheLastSane1]

Can you give me a link to what the individual disciplines represent and do?

[(Un)Inspired]

I think Tome of Battle actually does a good job laying this out but in my humble opinion:

Desert Wind: Focuses on adding extra fire damage to your attacks and extraordinary movement like flight, levitation and creating walls of fire behind you when you run.

Diamond Mind: Focuses on Incredible defenses that ensure making save sand increasing ac along with single, incredibly hard hitting strikes.

Setting Sun: Focuses on Avoiding getting hit throw attack redirection and dodge along with battlefield organization with a variety of tripping throw maneuvers.

Shadow Hand: Focuses on teleporting throughout the battlefield and striking with extra damage our from the shadows.

Stone Dragon: Focuses on damaging object like walls and barricades while ignoring hardness along with some extra damage maneuvers and some physical ability score damage.

Tiger Claw: Focuses on making extra attacks and leaping about the battlefield for extra mobility.

[TheLastSane1]

So for a monk style you would focus on?

[(Un)Inspired]

That would depend on what you want your monk to be link specifically.

If you want a martial artist who makes a ton of attacks each turn and can avoid a lot of poison and magic I would focus on tiger claw and diamond mind maneuvers.

Being able to replace all your saves with concentration checks is better than having good saves across the board and Avalanche of Blades, Raging Moongoose and Time Stands Still lets you make more attacks than a monk could ever hope to.

[StreamOfTheSky]

Desert Wind: It has a lot of fire damage options. Almost all of them suck. However, it also can create a flanker (distracting ember), give you fun mobile attack options (searing charge; leaping flame; desert tempest), and some other random utility if you look hard enough. Probably the 2nd weakest discipline in the book.

Diamond Mind: One of the best disciplines in the book (the other 3 contenders are the only ones swordsages DON'T get). Just look at the strike options, they're incredible! Especially for a 2H power attacker....like most melee is. But DM also features many of the book's best counters, such as the save replacers. Boosts are slim pickings and the stances kinda suck at low levels (but Hearing the Air and Stance of Alacrity are both incredible), but aside from that...hard to go wrong just picking blindly from DM. The insightful strikes, nightmare blades, and emerald razor are the best strikes, though, and Time Stands Still is delicious (combine w/ tiger claw boosts for more attacks!).

Setting Sun: This discipline is broken. As in, it doesn't work right. It's supposed to be the little Halfling using the big mean giant's size and strength against him, but...it completely and utterly fails at that. You still face size limits on what you can trip (and thus throw), and size + str + reach will ALWAYS outperform a dex based thrower. So...it's a great discipline for monumental brute types. For everyone else...Counter Charge, Baffling Defense, Fool's Strike, and all of the stances are worth looking into.

Shadow Hand: The dark arts. The strikes in this discipline utterly suck (hand of death and maybe Shadow Garrote being a notable exception) until very high levels (8th and 9th level strikes), when they suddenly become very good. That said...SH has excellent boosts and some counters. Teleportation, invisibility, Ghostly Defense...all are great. And many of the stances rock, and are needed for Shadow Blade feat (dex to damage).

Stone Dragon: The weakest discipline in the book. Must be on the ground hurts a lot, and the stances all end if you move more than 5 ft (you can use a swift after to get it back, but....that's a waste of swift actions). Features almost all strikes. There are some gems in the rock, though. The Mountain Hammer line helps immensely vs. high DR foes and it has unlimited utility potential for also ignoring object hardness. Crushing Vise is a no-save 1 round lockdown. The 9th level strike gets better the more levels/HD the foes have and has no other maneuvers required. Definitely dip here, do not specialize in it.

Tiger Claw: This has two main customers - TWF folks and 2H weapon single striking skirmishers. The former love the bonus attack boosts, sudden leap (ok...everyone loves that one), wolf fang strike, pouncing charge... The latter love the jump strikes, especially Feral Death Blow, Swooping Dragon Strike, and so forth They might also take some of the TWF stuff especially boosts and pounce, but get less out of them. One of the best offensive / damage-dealing disciplines, for sure.


So for a monk style you would focus on?

All of them? Setting Sun (tripping, general judo-feel), Tiger Claw (multi-attacking, jumping, and speed), and Diamond Mind (finding power from within) are probably the "core" of what a monk is fluffed to be about and do. But you've also got some Shadow Hand for teleporting and nerve strikes (quivering palm) and even desert wind for its mobile striking and speed aspects, if not the fire theme so much. Stone Dragon has the DR/hardness-ignoring (adamantine ki strike) and has a lot of generic "hit harder" stuff and a bit of iron body karate feel to it.