lvl 9 character creating

[Iceking]

Hi folks

In my last d&d session I died :'(

I was a lvl 10 paladin who tried to tank things up but got poisoned (bad rol for fort check DC 19 (had an 18)) and lost (after 2 turns) 11 CON.

Now I may create a new character on lvl 9 start.

I have 3 posibilities for my own.

1 a spell based character (want one to do much damage)
2 a rogue who's goiing towards shadowdancer / assasin
3 a new tank (might be goiing towards RKV)

I would like your opinion on those possibilities and how to build them.
All books (not web) are allowed.
our (big) party has allready the following
1 ranger
1 druid
1 bard
1 fighter
1 barbarian
1 wizard

since the barbarian and fighter are goiing all in all the time i felt like i didnt do enough as paladin (exept for lay on hands)

most of our enemy's are humanoids.

my dice rolls (4D6 lose lowest)
9
10
12
14
15
15

be my guest to give me an strong build.

is there a strong rogue spellcaster build option (I'm not playing D&D for that long so i dont know all that much about the options)

I would find it lovely to have a non core character (or at least non goiing core for 10 lvl's)


thx in advance

[SowZ]

Hi folks

In my last d&d session I died :'(

I was a lvl 10 paladin who tried to tank things up but got poisoned (bad rol for fort check DC 19 (had an 18)) and lost (after 2 turns) 11 CON.

Now I may create a new character on lvl 9 start.

I have 3 posibilities for my own.

1 a spell based character (want one to do much damage)
2 a rogue who's goiing towards shadowdancer / assasin
3 a new tank (might be goiing towards RKV)

I would like your opinion on those possibilities and how to build them.
All books (not web) are allowed.
our (big) party has allready the following
1 ranger
1 druid
1 bard
1 fighter
1 barbarian
1 wizard

since the barbarian and fighter are goiing all in all the time i felt like i didnt do enough as paladin (exept for lay on hands)

most of our enemy's are humanoids.

my dice rolls (4D6 lose lowest)
9
10
12
14
15
15

be my guest to give me an strong build.

is there a strong rogue spellcaster build option (I'm not playing D&D for that long so i dont know all that much about the options)

I would find it lovely to have a non core character (or at least non goiing core for 10 lvl's)


thx in advance

Assassin is a fun class. You could round out the 15s to have 16 Int and 16 Dex. Lesser Tielfing race, perhaps? Pick up the feat Craven plus some Bracers of Murder and you'll have a pretty fun rogue.

[Iceking]

Assassin is a fun class. You could round out the 15s to have 16 Int and 16 Dex. Lesser Tielfing race, perhaps? Pick up the feat Craven plus some Bracers of Murder and you'll have a pretty fun rogue.


Any builds you know written out? (easyer to follow it since im a n00b)

[Hurnn]

Cleric or warlock, if you go warlock focus on utility invocations, like flight darksight baleful utterance, and the dim-door one.

[Inevitability]

Could you give some more information about your party?

Is the ranger melee or ranged?
Is the wizard mainly buffing, controlling the battlefield, or blasting?
What are the other party members doing, both in and out of combat?

[docnessuno]

Duskblade 9

Race: Human or Dragonborn lesser earth genasi

Stats: (human / genasi)
Str 18 (15 +1 level +2 item) / 20 (15 +1 level +2 racial +2 item)
Dex 14 (12 +2 item) / 14 (14 -2 racial +2 item)
Con 16 (14+2 item) / 18 (12 +4 racial +2 item)
Int 18 (15 +1 level +2 item) / 18 (15 +1 level +2 item)
Wis 9 / 7
Cha 10 / 8

Mandatory feats: Knowledge devotion, Arcane strike, Power attack
Optional feats: EWP (spiked chain), Versatile spellcaster, Obtain familiar, Improved familiar, Poison spell.

Important items:
Stat-boosting items, Scroll of uncertain provenience (MiC), Drake-Helm (XpH), Mithral Heavy plate, +1 Bloodstone (MiC) 2h weapon of choice, Metamagic rod of exdending.

Future levels: Duskblade +2 / Abjurant champion +5 / Duskblade +4

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

For your race, be a Desert Kobold (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/environmentalRacialVariants.htm#desertKobolds) with the Dark Creature template. Take Dragonwrought for the dragon creature type, and start out venerable age so you get +3 Int, Wis, and Cha but don't take penalties to your physical stats for it. Your starting stats should be Str 6, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 20, with both of your level-up points in Cha. Start out with your +1 LA already bought off (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm), which cost you 3,000 xp.

Start out Spellthief 1/ Sorcerer 4/ Spellwarp Sniper 2/ Unseen Seer 2, and at level 20 it should look like Spellthief 1/ Sorcerer 4/ Spellwarp Sniper 5/ Unseen Seer 10. Start with two flaws (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm), I'd get Hot Blooded and Love of Nature (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258440#30). Flaws must be taken 'when creating a character' so since you're creating your character at 9th level, your flaws can show up at any level you currently have including 9th. Feats should be Dragonwrought (1), Item Familiar (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/magic/itemFamiliars.htm) (3), Draconic Reservoir (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) (F), Darkstalker (6), Master Spellthief (9), Silent Spell (USS), and Invisible Spell (F). Get the Sudden Metamagic ACF in PH2 at Sorcerer 1, plus free class features (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20061013a). Get the Draconic Rite of Passage in RotD and the Greater Draconic Rite of Passage (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a), plus use the Loredrake archetype from Dragons of Eberron if possible (ask your DM, the most recent source on it is Dragon Magic p87 which indicates that it works).

Skills should be everything you need to qualify for your prestige classes of course, and always get max ranks in Hide and Move Silently. I'd also try to get a lot of Spot, Listen, Tumble, and skill tricks in CS. If you're the only one in the party with Trapfinding be sure to get Search and Disable Device.

Spells Known (8/5/4/3/2 without Loredrake, 9/5/5/4/3/2 with it):
0- Electric Jolt, Caltrops, Stick, Mage Hand, Mending, Message, Detect Magic, Prestidigitation, (Dancing Lights)
1- Shield, Power Word: Pain, Silent Image, Wall of Smoke, Grease
2- Wings of Cover, Alter Self, Web, Scorching Ray, (Ray of Stupidity)
3- Melf's Unicorn Arrow, Heart of Water, Icelance, (Bands of Steel)
4- Greater Invisibility, Wings of Flurry, (Black Tentacles)
5- (Swift Etherealness, Wall of Force)
Your Draconic Rite of Passage spell should be Nerveskitter, which is usable 3/day thanks to Draconic Reservoir.

Note that per Rules Compendium's section on precision damage, if an attack or ability that makes multiple attacks takes less than a full round action to perform, precision damage such as sneak attack only applies on the first attack. If you use an ability that makes multiple attacks and does take a full round action, such as spontaneously casting a spell with a metamagic feat, then you'll get to add Sneak Attack damage to every attack. Also note that spells that don't make attack rolls (Wings of Flurry) don't deal sneak attack damage. You can find the source and relevant rules on any of those spells here (http://dndtools.eu/spells/) (click Filter above the list).

Your Item Familiar should be an Elvencraft Longbow, which functions as both a quarterstaff and a longbow. You'll need to pay for Masterwork three times, but it can also have three Wand Chambers, for a base item cost of 1,600 gp. An Item Familiar is an intelligent item, which is regarded as a construct, and constructs cannot be disabled or destroyed by dispelling or disjoining and they continue to function in antimagic and dead magic areas. You can use Invest Skill Ranks to get a huge bonus on your important skills, and at 9th level the 10% XP bonus it gives you will be at least 3,600 xp extra, so even after buying off your +1 LA you're still up 600 xp. Say it started as a custom Runestaff (MIC p224), and you could have upgraded it yourself by hiring an NPC spellcaster to provide the required spells at the standard rates (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/goodsAndServices.htm#spell), or cast them yourself and then traded them out at 4th/6th/8th level. It started out with Summon Undead III 1/day (3*3*200 gp), Endure Elements 1/day (1*1*100 gp), and Benign Transposition 1/day (1*1*100 gp), for a total cost of 2,000 gp. You upgraded it yourself to make Benign Transposition usable 3/day (100 gp), add Rope Trick 1/day (2*2*100 gp; 2*30 gp), add Resist Energy, Mass 1/day (4*4*200 gp; 4*70gp), make Summon Undead III usable 3/day (it's no longer the highest level spell, net increase of 0 gp), add Resistance, Greater 1/day (4*4*100 gp; 4*70 gp), add Glitterdust 3/day (2*2*200 gp), add Dispel Magic 3/day (3*3*200 gp), add Arcane Turmoil 3/day (2*2*200 gp; 2*30 gp), add Command Undead 3/day (2*2*200 gp; 2*30 gp), and add Protection from Evil 3/day (1*1*200 gp). The total upgrade cost should be 9,700 gp, so the total upgrade cost to you would be 4,850 gp and 356 xp, plus 460 gp in NPC spellcasting fees. So the item familiar cost you 1,600 + 2,000 + 4,850 + 460 = 8,910 gp and 388 xp. You'll still be 212 xp above what you would have otherwise started with, and that barely puts a dent in your WBL.

Other items should include a Circlet of Rapid Casting (MIC, 15,000 gp), a Lesser Metamagic Rod of Extend (3,000 gp), a +1 Mithral Breastplate (5,350 gp), a +1 Mithral Buckler (2,165 gp), a Wand of Wings of Cover with 10 charges remaining (900 gp), and 675 gp remaining for mundane gear (Spell Component Pouches, masterwork thieves' tools, etc.). You'll have a decent AC, extremely good stealth capabilities, and tons of tricks and tons of different ways to deal damage. You can use Alter Self to take the form of a tiny/small dragon for flight and natural armor, plus better physical ability scores. You can use Wings of Cover to avoid an attack and even help protect your allies. Note that most of your damage will come from sneak attacking with Invisible Scorching Ray, or Wings of Flurry when there's a group of opponents, but there are some spells in there that do more than just damage when it's needed. Try to pick up some of the Raiment of the Four set (MIC) to get access to spells like Fireball, Magic Missile, and Teleport without spending spells known or putting them on your Runestaff.

[Seharvepernfan]

I suggest a crusader, it will be similar to your paladin, but generally better. It is the tank class.

Human Crusader 9
Str 16, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 9, Wis 14, Cha 10 (or Wis 10, Cha 14)

As for the build; it's hard to mess a ToB class up. General consensus is that reach weapons are best, but you could use a tower shield for maximum tankery.

[SowZ]

Any builds you know written out? (easyer to follow it since im a n00b)

Maybe Penetrating Strike Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 3/Assassin 3.

16 (+1 at level 4) Int, 16 (+1 at level 8) Dex, 14 Con, 12 Str, 9 Wis, 10 Cha.

Lesser Tiefling for +2 to Hide and Move Silently, Darkness 1/day, and +2 Int/+2 Dex/-2 Cha.

Are flaws allowed? If not:

Craven
Keen Intellect (The Dragon one, not the Oriental one ever, ugh.)
Two Weapon Fighting
Imp. Two Weapon Fighting

Grab the Bracers of Murder for sure. +2 Int Item, too. Anyway, that is a decent chasis. Not OP so shouldn't break the group but should be useful and fun.

On a Sneak Attack with a +1 Dagger, you'll do 1d4+4d6+16 damage. Pretty decent.

[Shinken]

Maybe Penetrating Strike Rogue 3/Swashbuckler 3/Assassin 3.

16 (+1 at level 4) Int, 16 (+1 at level 8) Dex, 14 Con, 12 Str, 9 Wis, 10 Cha.

Lesser Tiefling for +2 to Hide and Move Silently, Darkness 1/day, and +2 Int/+2 Dex/-2 Cha.

Are flaws allowed? If not:

Craven
Keen Intellect (The Dragon one, not the Oriental one ever, ugh.)
Two Weapon Fighting
Imp. Two Weapon Fighting

Grab the Bracers of Murder for sure. +2 Int Item, too. Anyway, that is a decent chasis. Not OP so shouldn't break the group but should be useful and fun.

On a Sneak Attack with a +1 Dagger, you'll do 1d4+4d6+16 damage. Pretty decent.

Excellent suggestions. Since you're not using Daring Outlaw, I'd suggest trading away grace for spell-like abilities (from Complete Mage). You can get swift action blur from this, which is pretty good.
As for equipment, I suggest organripper daggers. They are only 1000 gp more expensive than +1 daggers and they deal +1d6 sneak attack. There are several other items for +sneak attack, but organripper has the best cost/effect ratio.
For your later feats, you could consider the darkness feats from Drow of Underdark. One of them gets you hide in plain sight (while Assassin only gets it at 8th level). You might also consider going into Unseen Seer from Assassin.

[Hangwind]

Become a Warforged Dragonfire Adept? Pick up Entangling Exhalation and go to town. It is VERY IMPORTANT that you make sure your Con is high though. The DFA is awesome as battlefield control and as a damage dealer but you are a serious target for any monsters. This is why I suggest Warforged, for the natural toughness and immunity to poisons, disease, ect.

[Iceking]

I do like both the adept and assassin ideas. What would be the best according to you guys?

An what are flaws?

[TuggyNE]

An what are flaws?

They're from UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm).

[Iceking]

Could you give some more information about your party?

Is the ranger melee or ranged?
Is the wizard mainly buffing, controlling the battlefield, or blasting?
What are the other party members doing, both in and out of combat?

Ranger is ranged
Wizard is doing a little bit of everything. From bulls strength to fireball

Bard is mostly buffing us and outside battle he is the talker
Druid is mostly going wolf/panter/... Form for fighting


Barbarian and fighter are mainly hacking trough the enemy's and looking for trouble outside the fights.

[Inevitability]

Okay, then I advise you to make the rogue-character. Your party seems to lack something like a scout, save for the druid, and sending a primary caster to scout on his own may not be the best idea possible.

[Ellowryn]

hey Biffoniacus

"Note that per Rules Compendium's section on precision damage, if an attack or ability that makes multiple attacks takes less than a full round action to perform, precision damage such as sneak attack only applies on the first attack. If you use an ability that makes multiple attacks and does take a full round action, such as spontaneously casting a spell with a metamagic feat, then you'll get to add Sneak Attack damage to every attack."

I'm curious about this, as you are not the first person I've seen on the forum post it, but on page 136 of the rules compendium under Spell casting "Multiple Hits: Some weaponlike spells can strike multiple times in the same round. When the caster receives a bonus on damage rolls or some form of extra damage (such as precision damage) with such spells, the extra damage applies only on the first attack, whether that attack hits or not."

Is there some sort of faq or errata that states otherwise?

[Petrocorus]

Cloistered Cleric 4/Church Inquisitor 3/PrC Paladin 2/Sacred Exorcist 10/Contemplative 1
BAB +13 CL 19 Fort +11 Ref +5 Will +16 Skill points 80

With DMM: Persist, Knowledge Devotion + Power Attack, Holy Warrior and Spontaneous Domain Casting ACF, you can be a real melee powerhouse with full cleric casting. You get the same feel as your previous character and fulfil the 1st and 3rd role of your list.

You can be any Race, but human will be the best because you need feat a and don't have any bonus feat, unless you take the Planning Domain. You need the War domain for Holy Warrior. Choose a Pantheon instead of a single deity for a better domain choice.
The Draconic template will be very good if you can buy off the LA, it will improve Str, Con and Cha. Your dump stats are Dex and Int. If the DM allows you to take the Serenity feat from Dragon Compendium, you can dump Cha too and use Nightstick for turn attempts.

So as a Draconic Human with the Serenity feat, your stat would be:

Str 18 = 15 (base) +2 (draconic) +1 (advancement)
Dex 10
Con 16 = 14 (base) +2 (draconic)
Wis 16 = 15 (base) + 1 (advancement)
Int 12
Cha 11 = 9 (base) + 2 (draconic)

Obviously grab an item of Wisdom ASAP.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

hey Biffoniacus

"Note that per Rules Compendium's section on precision damage, if an attack or ability that makes multiple attacks takes less than a full round action to perform, precision damage such as sneak attack only applies on the first attack. If you use an ability that makes multiple attacks and does take a full round action, such as spontaneously casting a spell with a metamagic feat, then you'll get to add Sneak Attack damage to every attack."

I'm curious about this, as you are not the first person I've seen on the forum post it, but on page 136 of the rules compendium under Spell casting "Multiple Hits: Some weaponlike spells can strike multiple times in the same round. When the caster receives a bonus on damage rolls or some form of extra damage (such as precision damage) with such spells, the extra damage applies only on the first attack, whether that attack hits or not."

Is there some sort of faq or errata that states otherwise?

Rules Compendium page 42, Precision Damage, last item on the page:
"A form of attack that enables an attacker to make multiple attacks during an action other than a full-round action, such as the Manyshot feat (standard action) or a quickened scorching ray (swift action), allows precision damage to be applied only to the first attack in the group."

Since it specifically includes a spell in its examples, this rule specifically applies to spells as well. It's only when the attack form does not take a full-round action that precision damage is only applied to the first attack.

Page 136 even says under Precision Damage, "Any weaponlike spell that can be used with precision damage, such as sneak attack, follows the normal rules for precision damage with a few alterations." It then goes on to specify what those alterations are, none of which overrides the above rule regarding multiple attacks. The part on page 136 under Multiple Hits is a generalization that presumes spells take a standard action to cast (as most do), but the specific rule that this is referencing is on page 42 and it actually says what types of attacks it applies to and which ones it doesn't.

[Iceking]

Excellent suggestions. Since you're not using Daring Outlaw, I'd suggest trading away grace for spell-like abilities (from Complete Mage). You can get swift action blur from this, which is pretty good.
As for equipment, I suggest organripper daggers. They are only 1000 gp more expensive than +1 daggers and they deal +1d6 sneak attack. There are several other items for +sneak attack, but organripper has the best cost/effect ratio.
For your later feats, you could consider the darkness feats from Drow of Underdark. One of them gets you hide in plain sight (while Assassin only gets it at 8th level). You might also consider going into Unseen Seer from Assassin.

Gonna work with this. Any adjustments from here are still welcome.
A further build option, like this unseen seer or prestige classes are also welcome.

Thx already for all re responses.

[Iceking]

is there a book to find the keen intellect?

how about the penetrating strike

(penetrating strike rogue was beiing adviced)

what's the difference between a tiefling and a lesser tiefling?
(in case i dont want to buy my LA off)

[Shinken]

is there a book to find the keen intellect?
No, it's only in Dragon Magazine #318, AFAIK.


how about the penetrating strike
It's from Dungeonscape.


what's the difference between a tiefling and a lesser tiefling?
(in case i dont want to buy my LA off)
Tiefling is an outsider (native).
Lesser tiefling is a humanoid with all of the weakness of an outsider but none of the advantages.

[Iceking]

just had the approval from the DM that i can use a normal tiefling without thinking about the LA+1
i will just have lesser items to start with.

So i will be a normal tiefling lvl 9

i'll try to make my first lvl's today and post them here. Any suggestions are still welcome.

[Iceking]

It's from Dungeonscape.
.

is that D&D viable?

is there a way around the penetrating strike or do i actually need it to make my character good?

[eggynack]

is that D&D viable?

If you're asking if Dungeonscape is a first party book, then yes, it is.

[Iceking]

I'd suggest trading away grace for spell-like abilities (from Complete Mage). You can get swift action blur from this, which is pretty good.


how can you do this?

[Fouredged Sword]

Penetrating strike makes rogues not absolutly useless when you run into creatures immune to sneak attack. You still get half your damage at least.

Now, I would suggest you max out UMD and grab a few useful scrolls for dealing with undead. A scroll or two of command undead will turn your DM's near impossible fight with a zombie hydra into a roflstomp of the rest of the session.

[Iceking]

Lesser Tiefling for +2 to Hide and Move Silently, Darkness 1/day, and +2 Int/+2 Dex/-2 Cha.



i only find a +2 to hide and bluff. Not to move silently (Races of destiny)

[Petrocorus]

First, you can ask your DM if you can buy off the LA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm), in this case Tiefling is probably better than Lesser Tiefling.

You can also take a look at the Dark Creature template (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/dark.shtml) from ToM that is really good for roguish characters. You might also want to take a look to Whisper Gnome from RoF.

[Iceking]

First, you can ask your DM if you can buy off the LA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm), in this case Tiefling is probably better than Lesser Tiefling.


I may play the tiefling without buying it off. He grants it to me as a +0 character. :happy



You can also take a look at the Dark Creature template (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/dark.shtml) from ToM that is really good for roguish characters. You might also want to take a look to Whisper Gnome from RoF.

I love the Dark template for the hide thing, but cant ask the dm to leave all the +1 LA away :S he allready granted me the tiefling

Could shadowdancer (1 lvl in it) take this slot? Or do i weaken my character with this?

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

I may play the tiefling without buying it off. He grants it to me as a +0 character. :happy

I love the Dark template for the hide thing, but cant ask the dm to leave all the +1 LA away :S he allready granted me the tiefling

You can use Lesser Tiefling per Lesser Planetouched in Player's Guide to Faerun p191, which gives up the Outsider creature type and has a +0 LA normally. Then add on Dark Creature, and if you still have to take the +1 LA just start out with it already bought off (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/races/reducingLevelAdjustments.htm) at a cost of 3,000 xp. You'll only be 3,000 xp behind and you'll gain more xp per encounter until you catch back up, instead of being stuck an entire level behind and never catching up do to a level adjustment.

[NoACWarrior]

If you are still looking for a Rougeish character with spell casting you could change to either Spellthief (CAdv, partial caster rouge) or Beguiler (PHB2, full caster illusions).

Spellthief is nice in your party because you can borrow a nuke or buff spell from the druid who is most likely front lining, and act as a 2nd buffer with the bard maintaining bardic music. Heck you can also ask the ranger, druid, or bard to prepare the X-Strike series of spells and you could take them and use them - they give you the ability to sneak attack a plant, undead, or construct for 1 round and casts as a swift action. If fighting vs a spell casting monster you can disable a particular power or spell to help your team survive a bit better.

If you already made your choice, then oh well.

[Iceking]

This is what i got this far.

Tiefling Rogue3/Swashbuckler3/Assasin3

Str 12
Dex 18
Con 14
Int 18
Wis 9
Cha 8

Fort: +7
Ref: +11
Will: +6

BAB +7/+2

Traits:
Darkvision
Sneak att 4d6
trapfinding
evasion
Penetrating strike
Weapon finesse
Insightfull strike
Darkness 2/day
Death att
Poison use
Uncanny Dodge
+1 save vs poison
Spells (3lvl 1 spells + 1 lvl 2 spells)

Feats:
Craven
Keen intellect
Two weapon fighting
Blend into shadows

Skillpoints used:
Balance: 12
Disable device: 12
Hide: 12
Intimidate: 12
Move silently: 12
Open lock: 12
Sleight of hand: 12
Spellcraft 12
Spot 12
Tumble 12
Use magic device 12

Skillpoints left 6


Can you confirm these numbers?
How should i spend my other skillpoints?
How about the spells, are these known or able to learn? What do you guys recommend to use?
Is there anything i should change?

How about goiing a lvl into shadowdancer (for hide in plain sight) or dont i need this?
What possibilities do I have from here?

Thx in advance

[Iceking]

Can someone assist me?

Thx

[docnessuno]

- Unless i'm missing something you have too many skill points, you should have (12*6+8*3+8*3=120)
- Your base saves should be +5 / +7 / +3 (+7 / +11 / +7 with stats)
- I would advise to drop Blend into shadows for Daring Outlaw (and possibly add a rogue or swashbuckler level to the build)
- You can also consider Extend spell after you hit your 5th assassin level.
- The single best assassin spell you can grab is Wraithstrike.
- For the future i would bring assassin to level 8 or 9 (and get HiPS from there)
- A swordsage dip, along with the shadow hand feat, will let you add your Dex modifier to damage (with specific weapons).

[Shinken]

Don't drop Blend in Shadows, you're going to need HiPS now instead of 5 levels in the future.

[docnessuno]

Don't drop Blend in Shadows, you're going to need HiPS now instead of 5 levels in the future.

Except that HiPS requires a standard AND a swift action to set up (magical darkness area), can be used 1/day (possibly 2/day with an allied spellcaster) and can be used only within 10ft of an area where you could hide without needing it.

[Shinken]

Except that HiPS requires a standard AND a swift action to set up (magical darkness area), can be used 1/day (possibly 2/day with an allied spellcaster) and can be used only within 10ft of an area where you could hide without needing it.

I think it's a lot better than that. Darkness lasts quite a while. It can be cast on an item, that item can be stored away and the effect only happens when the item is out. You could cast it in a coin, put it in your pocket, then take it away when you want things to go dark. You can also have a wand of darkness. You can also take Magic in the Blood.

Also, I don't understand your last statement. Yes, you can hide in an area of magical darkness, but you can't hide while observed, which is what hide in plain sight changes.

[docnessuno]

I think it's a lot better than that. Darkness lasts quite a while. It can be cast on an item, that item can be stored away and the effect only happens when the item is out. You could cast it in a coin, put it in your pocket, then take it away when you want things to go dark. You can also have a wand of darkness. You can also take Magic in the Blood.

Also, I don't understand your last statement. Yes, you can hide in an area of magical darkness, but you can't hide while observed, which is what hide in plain sight changes.

I wouldn't call 10 min / lvl a "long" duration, but i was wrong on my last statement. Somehow i misremembered Darkness as giving total concealment in the area.

Still the effect can be mostly replicated with invisibility and/or swift invisibility, without spending feats in a feat-starved build.

[Shinken]

I wouldn't call 10 min / lvl a "long" duration, but i was wrong on my last statement. Somehow i misremembered Darkness as giving total concealment in the area.
I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this, then. That's 30 minutes (300 rounds) from a wand or three times as long using a spell-like ability. Longer than Duration: 1 hour spells.


Still the effect can be mostly replicated with invisibility and/or swift invisibility, without spending feats in a feat-starved build.
Invisibility and swift invisibility are trivial to bypass at level 9, though. I really don't see any feat that would be better than Blend in Shadows for this slot, really - you suggested Daring Outlaw, but that's just an extra 2d6 unless the build gets more levels in Swashbuckler (and therefore delays Hide in Plain Sight even further) and the build does not even qualify unless you drop Arcane Stunt, which is a lot better than +2d6 sneak attack, IMHO.

[Iceking]

Is 1 lvl shadowdancer worth it to get the hide in plain sight?
An is is possible or do I need to take more lvls cause of multiclass?

[Petrocorus]

Is 1 lvl shadowdancer worth it to get the hide in plain sight?
An is is possible or do I need to take more lvls cause of multiclass?

If HiPS is the only one thing you want to go ShadowDancer for, then taking the Dark Templates is probably better.

[Iceking]

I'll have problems with the LA buyoff with my DM

[Shinken]

Is 1 lvl shadowdancer worth it to get the hide in plain sight?
An is is possible or do I need to take more lvls cause of multiclass?

You could get the Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis instead.

[Andezzar]

It's from Dungeonscape.Don't use the Dungeonscape version. Use the Lightbringer Penetrating Strike ACF from Expedition to Castle Ravenloft. That way you will be doing half sneak attack damage instead of unnamed bonus damage equal to half your sneak attack dice. Ergo with the EtCR version everything that triggers on a successful sneak attack will work, with the Dungeonscape version it won't.


You can also take a look at the Dark Creature template (http://www.realmshelps.net/monsters/templates/dark.shtml) from ToM that is really good for roguish characters. You might also want to take a look to Whisper Gnome from RoF.Just make sure you have a way to get back from the Plane of Shadow. Dismissal and similar spells will send you there. The same goes for the Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis.


Is 1 lvl shadowdancer worth it to get the hide in plain sight?
An is is possible or do I need to take more lvls cause of multiclass?All shaodowdancers get HiPS at their first class level, regardless of how they qualify for the PrC.


If HiPS is the only one thing you want to go ShadowDancer for, then taking the Dark Templates is probably better.Look at the Dark Creature Template in Cormyr Tearing of the Weave. Its HiPS is SU instead of EX, but it lets you ignore the requirement for concealment/cover as well as being allowed to hide while being observed. The ToM Dark Creature can only hide if it has some form of concealment.

[Iceking]

Look at the Dark Creature Template in Cormyr Tearing of the Weave. Its HiPS is SU instead of EX, but it lets you ignore the requirement for concealment/cover as well as being allowed to hide while being observed. The ToM Dark Creature can only hide if it has some form of concealment.

but will it let me hide in daylight (remember that it doesnt)

I want to be able to hide in plain sight in daylight (we are goiing to fight elves in forest like enviroment.

Shadowdancer looks like the easiest way, but does this hurt my build?

[Andezzar]

but will it let me hide in daylight (remember that it doesnt)

I want to be able to hide in plain sight in daylight (we are goiing to fight elves in forest like enviroment.

Shadowdancer looks like the easiest way, but does this hurt my build?Neither of the templates allows HiPS in Daylight.

Especially with Fractional BAB a level of Shadowdancer does not hurt much. Once you have taken the first level, the second might also be interesting for Darkvision.

[Iceking]

Neither of the templates allows HiPS in Daylight.

Especially with Fractional BAB a level of Shadowdancer does not hurt much. Once you have taken the first level, the second might also be interesting for Darkvision.

dont I have that cause of tiefling?

[Andezzar]

dont I have that cause of tiefling?Yeah, of course. I forgot about that the race was already set.

[Iceking]

Any other tips or tricks?

Need to make it complete by Sunday.