How to..

[Hiro]

Make a good memorable, yet thoroughly hated and even creepy villain. I've gotten a "dare" of sorts to try and develop one. But everything I've tried to come up with has fallen flat so far.

Help? I've got most of the 3.5 splatbooks to use except ToB

since i"m doing it as a sort of "final enemy-villain" type I can make them any level I choose within reason.

[docnessuno]

Illusions and enchantments, warp the player's mind.

Start with subtlety, have NPC here and there remembering encounters with the characters that the players never experienced. Good things, bad things, WEIRD things.

On the opposite, have NPC the player know quite well suddenly not remembering anything about them, or remembering wrong informations.

Have their allies betray them, and their enemies suddenly turn friendly.

Have them framed for crimes they never committed, and praised for deeds they never did.

Describe nightmares of a shadowy figure visiting them in their dreams and taunting them.

That's what an high-level spellcaster could do, with memory-altering spells, well-placed suggestions, charms, domination and carefully employed illusions.

[Hiro]

How about a creepy factor? Something that'll freak the players out out of char?

Atm the char I have for race is a PF tiefling of shackleborn but I havent' decided on a class. Illusionist could be fun backed u with enchantment like you say.

I also wnt to portray this guy as someone who really doesn't care about others and is willing to abuse them in weird and maybe gory ways. purely for amusement.

[docnessuno]

How about a creepy factor? Something that'll freak the players out out of char?

Atm the char I have for race is a PF tiefling of shackleborn but I havent' decided on a class. Illusionist could be fun backed u with enchantment like you say.

I also wnt to portray this guy as someone who really doesn't care about others and is willing to abuse them in weird and maybe gory ways. purely for amusement.

I think not being able to tell anymore what is real, what is not (illusions, and/or modified memory), what is done by their free will and what under more or less subtle control should freak them out if the whole thing is set up in the right way.

I would use an ultimate magus (Wizard / Beguiller)

[Albions_Angel]

I like the illusionist. There is another option though. Have them believe what they are doing is right. Build them up to be evil, hated, cruel. Have their minions enjoy dishing out pain and punishment. Have people fear to speak his name. Then have him meet the characters once or twice. And have him be a sad, old man. Powerful, yes. But not actually evil. Make the characters question their own actions. Make him tragic. Check out Pain in Naruto Shippuden. He honestly believed what he was doing was right. Or the Lord Ruler in the Mistborn series. The actual history of Nero. Cerce in Game of Thrones. The auditors in Terry Pratchet (they just want planets to travel in elliptical orbits. Humans get in the way of things making sense. They can even reduce entropy. Its just not fair :( )

Though now I have seen it mentioned, a manipulative illusionist like Iago in Othello would be fantastic. He is my favourite evil person of all time.

EDIT: for creepy, there is one character. I dont like talking about him. Get a copy of The Hogfather tonight. Read it through. Mr Teatime (Teh-a-Tim-eh). Taken in by the Guild of Assassins at a young age after both his parents were murdered. Maybe they should have wondered a bit more about that. He has a childs mind and an experts proficiency, along with an eye made out of seers glass. He can more or less teleport, he can stab someone to such an accuracy that he can put the point of a knife through someones eyelid without hurting their eye, and he still has a childs imagination. He is evil because he doesnt get evil. Here are some quotes.


Teatime: Do you have a lot of friends, Mr. Sideney?
Sideney: Quite a few actually.
TT: I don't have many... Don't seem to have the knack... On the other hand, I don't seem to have any enemies at all.

Lord Downey (head of the Guild): Mr Teatime, you have actually applied yourself to study of ways of killing Death?
TT: Only as a hobby, sir.
LD: But then some people might say that he is technically immortal.
TT: Everyone has a weak point, sir.


TT: I get on well with animals, sir.
LD: You nailed Sir George's dog to the ceiling.
TT: I couldn't have it barking while I was working, sir.
LD: Some people would have drugged it.
TT: [mystified] Oh! But I definitely fulfilled the contract. I checked Sir George's breathing with a mirror, as instructed.
LD: Apparently his head was several feet from his body at that point.
TT: That was all right, wasn't it, sir?
LD: It lacked... elegance.
TT: I thank you, sir. I'm always happy to be corrected. I shall remember that... next time.


And the making of video (big spoilers)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Xz7JhM8_ws

Of course you could build a character based on Lord Vetinari. But he isnt evil. Is he, everyone?

[Fax Celestis]

You should read Exemplars of Evil.

[Seto]

Cerce in Game of Thrones.

I was going to suggest Joffrey. He is sadistic, perverse, creepy, and that's strengthened by the fact that he's just a teenager who knows nothing about life and just goes with his instincts without realizing how creepy they are to other people (much like Nero in Racine's play...). He is a memorable villain because he's unbearable and god I HATE him SO much. You just have to make him actually powerful.

(If someone replies to that, please no spoilers, I just started season 3)

[Hiro]

I've tried to. But everytime I've downloaded it on 4shared it's always been corrupted and I've been unable to read it.

[Albions_Angel]

Just edited my post with a truly creepy character. Enjoy.

[Hiro]

Ok that is kind of creepy. Jus tsomeone with a child's innocence and doesn't see what they're doing is evil

*thinks* hmm

[sleepyphoenixx]

Another villain type that's universally hated is the Evil Scientiest. An amoral monster that abducts children and laughs at his victims while he performs his "experiments" (think Hojo from Final Fantasy 7).
Have him taunt the party at every encounter and get away EVERY SINGLE TIME. There are very few things that make players more angry.

[nedz]

This sounds like a job for Steve. That's Steve the Aboleth. Just add a few levels of Beguiler and have him farm the party. The tentacles and the mucus should provide for all the creapyness though really he should never fight the party — that's what minions are for. Just make him the invisibly hand.

[Hiro]

So I should pack him with a "ring of contingent Teleport without Error"? Basically it activates when the char drops to less than 25% and teleports them away to their sanctum.

[Andezzar]

I was going to suggest Joffrey. He is sadistic, perverse, creepy, and that's strengthened by the fact that he's just a teenager who knows nothing about life and just goes with his instincts without realizing how creepy they are to other people (much like Nero in Racine's play...). He is a memorable villain because he's unbearable and god I HATE him SO much. You just have to make him actually powerful.The problem is that Joffrey is incompetent. Only his rank lets him bully some people around. Remember how he got beat up by a girl three years younger than him.

[Keld Denar]

I like the zealous heirophant with a conviction that everything hes doing is right. He thinks he's genuinely helping people and doesn't realize that he is doing <insert completely repulsive consequence here>. Maybe he's doing something like removing free will ala Brave New World, or maybe he's collecting pieces for a great artifact doodad that will really begin some apocalypse sequence. Maybe he even knows it will, but believes that destroying the Prime is the only way to save it. Everyone WORSHIPS this guy, almost as a living god figure, and he really does do a ton of good. Everyone is just cheerily and blindedly marching forward into oblivion.

[BWR]

I like the zealous heirophant with a conviction that everything hes doing is right. He thinks he's genuinely helping people and doesn't realize that he is doing <insert completely repulsive consequence here>. Maybe he's doing something like removing free will ala Brave New World, or maybe he's collecting pieces for a great artifact doodad that will really begin some apocalypse sequence. Maybe he even knows it will, but believes that destroying the Prime is the only way to save it. Everyone WORSHIPS this guy, almost as a living god figure, and he really does do a ton of good. Everyone is just cheerily and blindedly marching forward into oblivion.

Sounds like the Kingpriest of Istar. For those unfamliar with him, he was the highest prist of Good in the Dragonlance setting, but his desire to bring good to the world, eradicate evil and make everything perfect lead him to demand this power from the gods, who decided he didn't like his hubris and dropped a big effing meteor on the world.

Edit: As for the OP, a villain can be memorable because of stats and being hard to kill or really deadly or whatever, but they are always memorable for how they act. We remember Emperor Palpatine not just because he was powerful and shot lightning at people but because of his twisted appearance, his cackle, his voice and the sheer evil he radiated.
Joffrey is memorable because, as people have already mentioned, he's a sadistic little ****. The most hated enemy in our Dragonlance campaign was not part of the Dragon Armies taking over everything or Evil, he was at best a distraction, a selfish petty evil bastard who ruined a couple of our plans, stole our loot and proved very difficult to kill, always escaping at the last moment. When we finally killed him off we were probably happier than when we finally vanquished the BBEGs.

A good villain hits the heroes where it hurts. Making it personal. Sure, the BBEG razing villages and animating everyone is horrible, but when his minions kill off your pet dog, it becomes personal.

[Darkweave31]

Playing off of illusions and reality I have a killer-gnome (shadowcraft mage) villain that was slowly driven mad by his shadow illusions becoming more and more real. The twist was the entire campaign was one of his illusions and as the PCs looked on the world and each other with true sight all they saw was a landscape made up of shadowy strands, including themselves.
"Dun dun dun!" :elan:

That should give them an existential crisis.

[mabriss lethe]

A lowly Expert. His expertise, however, is in being a serial killer. Think of the Saw movies with perhaps a dash of the Joker from The Killing Joke for extra motive.

Give him some low level options like Master of Poisons and craft (trapmaking) and maybe some really good social skills to manipulate others. As the campaign progresses, his UMD and massive collection of "acquired" magic items comes into play. (acquired from his more powerful victims)

He creates elaborate plans that lure others to their deaths, preferrably by their own/each other's hands, though he'll gladly kill, maim, or otherwise brutalize others (particularly those close to the PCs) to make sure people know he means business or to bait his murder traps so that his real victims will come to the party.

Have him kidnap and brainwash (diplomance) an important NPC, and when the party rescues him, he thanks them profusely, helps them "escape" into the real trap and then betrays them, forcing them to kill him to escape, or simply leaving the scene to become another tool of the Expert, while they are forced into a sick game where only one of the party can leave alive (assuming they play by the Expert's rules. You should, however, give them a way out that doesn't involve murdering each other.)

[Particle_Man]

Give the party a dog (or cat). Have the dog be a pet that the party gets attached to.

Have the villain kill the dog.

The party will stop at nothing, nothing, to get payback on that villain. :smallfurious:

I mean, remember Belkar and Mr. Scruffy.

[Vhaidara]

You could do what my uncle did.

Run an evil campaign, and then hijack everyone's characters afterwords to be the villains in your new campaign. Only the evil guys are like 10 levels higher than before.

It's oddly satisfying to fix a mess that is ultimately your fault.

I also second the illusionist. You can seriously, seriously mess with their heads.

An additional idea for the illusionist's tricks: everyone wakes up in someone else's body. Give each player the physical stats of a different player for an adventure. If you want to make it more fun, have them swap class features too. So if the wizard is in the barbarian's body, he can't cast, but he can rage. But he lacks the weapon proficiencies. This can be even funnier if you have a mixed gender party. The playboy bard wakes up in the body of the parties celibate female monk.

[delenn]

For me, the creepiest villains are the ones that you can almost feel compassion for, just before you remember that they're total monsters. Memorable villains have to have something to relate to, something that throws the good guys off-guard, even just for a second.

There's almost no end to the mechanics you can use, so it might be easier if you come up with a character concept first. Why is this character evil? Why should the PCs hate them more than other villains? What drives them?

[Felvion]

My piece of advice is to make this guy unpredictable. Illusion and enchantment is always a "safe" path.
In a campain i'm currently running the players have been through all kinds of danger and reached death too many times but their most hated enemies are those who tricked them. A witch kept them under illusion and they "willingly" gave her something really precious. This happened at the very early levels and they still cant get over it. Even though she wasn't the "main" villain and their quests have driven them far away from her, they always have in mind to return for revenge.
I didn't expect her to have such an impact on them so, definately, fooling the players is something that will make them really angry.
I can also recall the feeling or getting fooled as a player. When in lvl2 we killed a merchant that betrayed us to the mafia, we checked his heart pulse and verified he was dead only to find out 5 levels after that he was a high level vampire playing with us all that long.
My point is that he doesnt have to be a wizard, although it obviously helps. I recently read the guide to make the joker for the batman wizard counter. The element of surprise, crucial dilemmas that have a cost either way, action under pressure of time are effective ways to drive your players mad.
Also keep in mind that a super villain doesn't have to be that powerfull himself. Give him high charisma and some strategy thinking and you are done. He may not be able to face the party but he can easily exploit other soft spots of their personalities. He could grow false reputation against them or abduct their families. To stretch it further he could torture and murder special beloved ones. Then reannimate them as undead. I can assure you this works.

[Vhaidara]

Oh, and depending on the mentality of your players, just hitting them with enchantments can mess with them. I was CR testing my group of 6 level 5s (1 monk, 1 spellthief, 2 druids, and 2 wizards). The CR 7 on my test run was a single succubus, who was playing the damsel in distress fleeing the CR 6 (2 5-headed hydras). She managed to Charm the spellthief (predictable, his Will was only like +2-3), then the evil wizard (less predictable, Will +4-5), and then, to my amazement, one of the druids (Will +8-9). Oh, and then she hit the other druid's animal companion (dire hawk). At this point, the rest of the party was starting to spot holes in her story, giving new saving throws. Only the druid made it. So with the charmed members blocking for her, she bailed via greater teleport.

The party still wanted her dead so badly, I statted her up to become a recurring NPC. Then I stepped down from DMing, but I intend to pull her back out if I get the chance.

[hemming]

Bring back the conscious Scarecrow (made into the Scarecrow golem in 2nd edition) - those things always used to creep me out!

[Particle_Man]

If you go illusionist you could go for an illusionist lich.

a) It will take them a while to realize they are dealing with an illusionist.

b) It will take them a longer while to realize they are dealing with a lich.

c) Good luck finding *that* phylactery.

[Magikeeper]

First off, what are the personalities/values of the PCs?

Second, what are the personalities of the players?

The most memorable villains not only strike a cord with the PCs but with the players as well. The most memorable villain fight I've ever ran (or had, for that matter) started with everyone at the table wanting the villain obliterated both IC and OOC (while also liking the campaign - make sure it's the villian that draws the ire). They went so far as to track down his soul and kill him more thoroughly afterword just to make sure he was gone for good.


Stuff that villain had going for him - actually, first I should briefly describe the party. It's important to cater to the party! The party in this campaign was a mostly self-interested gang, minus one guy that was a boring "wants to be stronger" thug in backstory creation and then proceeded to acquire an increasingly large heart of gold during the rest of the campaign. I think he was LN for less than five minutes.
Anyway, they all liked kids, at least:

1. Was doing experimentation on orphans that via crooked orphanariums and a halfway-house.
2. Halfway-house paid the mistress (a harpy) in children.
3. Numerous encounters with minions, smugglers, etc. Mix of successes and failures.
4. Villain dominated half the party for awhile before the final rush to island lab. Made one of the players personally hand over an toddler-like NPC fairy he had sorta adopted. Fairy's telepathic link shared a great deal of suffering...
5. NPC fairy was toddler-like in the first place due to the villain destroying her mind with an artifact long before the PCs rescued her on accident during the first session. Attached PC knew this.
6. Heavily templated out of control lycan children. One of the PCs adopted/cured the first one they encountered early in the plot arc, making it much more painful when a much later encounter at the lab was in numbers too large to hold back against .
7. During the final encounters the villian antagonized the party over the magical equivalent of an intercom system. He had enough dirt on them to tailor the material.
8. In order to get a very vital surprise round the party intentionally pretended to let themselves get subdued (again) by a cascading domination trap (they had secreted some protection on themselves this time). This involved standing by without emotion as the villian murdered another NPC in a torturous manner. (The NPC was the friend yet another PC in the party - She had sold them out when the villian threatened her with becoming his second little fairy experiment and then turned triple-agent out of guilt. Getting him to kill her to feel more confident in the dominate's success was planned by her and another PC (but not her friend) ahead of time).
9. Heavy use of shared pain... look, he basically took every opportunity to kick any and all dogs available.

10. He was kind of an arrogant ass.

<One more note: Both NPCs were revived and/or saved (toddler-like fairy had memories of experimentation erased). Heart of gold guy eventually managed to make good on his oath (to himself) to see every child whose soul was willing to return true resurrected and cured. Much, much later in the campaign he finally revamped the nation's public child care system [Orphan and otherwise] as well to prevent anything like that from happening again. Worked with another nation as well.>

It was also the only genuinely climatic boss battle I think I've personally seen. It lasted, like, 7 rounds and ended with every party member save the aided one using aid another to ubercharge through the villian's increasingly high AC. In a way that could be described as a mid-air flip ending with a bisecting strike, no less. Even the familiars, crystals, etc helped out.


Edit: One more note: The fairy-napping was not drawn out. It was only ~2ish sessions to keep emotions high.

[Captnq]

Okay... Something I've been kicking around.

Human. Wizard, Lich
Feat: Dragon Familiar, Shadow Familiar
Buy wyrmling dracolich phylactery
Feed Wyrmling Dracolich brew.

Get extra familiar 5 times. One for each color GOOD COLORS.

Feed the Human Wizard corrupted flesh. Have him grow an extra head. Have one head constantly lament his fate while the evil corrupted head control's the wizard. Make it clear that you expect them to help the sad head regain control of the wizard and that's how they win.

It's a trap. Both heads are equally evil. One has become a powerful psionic.

The dracoliches all beg for death as they attack. However, they don't know where their phylacteries are kept. "Please! Find our phylacteries and End Our PAIN!" Some of them gives them clues as they fight. It leads the players on a trail of clues to find where all the phylacteries are before 1d10 days is up.

Also a trap. The dracroliches are just fine with all the evil.

How do they win? Damned if I know. Not MY problem. Run away? I think if the players run away they win.

[afroakuma]

There maaaaaaay be a few half-decent examples here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5281866&postcount=45). Something to roll off of, anyway.

[Mutazoia]

http://www.giantitp.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-197339.html