I need help with a DM

[BasketOfPuppies]

My current DM is very... restrictive. She put us in her version of the seven layers of hell and almost made us do as she wanted us to (and then got mad when I managed to skip a session). She gave the wizard (me) unlimited spell slots but didn't boost anyone else. (we're level 4). But whenever I cast Gate or any other planar travel spell (along with any spell she thinks is too powerful/doesn't feel like working around) she flat out tells me it doesn't work. She also won't let any of the players to multiclass, which is bad to all of us. Is there any way to try to get her to be better about this? (she's also my aunt and I don't want to ruin our good relationship).

[Sir Chuckles]

Ask her why she's doing this, and then explain why you don't like it.

Possibly include why the other players don't like it, if they're willing to chip in.

A DM's primary skill should Diplomacy, as should a player's.

[NikitaDarkstar]

Well Gate shouldn't even work. You said you're level 4. Gate is a 9th level spell, something a wizard doesn't have access to until level 17.

Making you do what she wants to you to do is sort of the DM's job (within reason of course), and if the setting is the seven layers of hell (which is clearly a homebrew since D&D normally has 9 levels, but that's fine) obviously she doesn't want you lot to just skip on out of there if that's where the adventure takes place.

So while it sounds like at least some of you need to re-read the rules to gain some more system understanding I'd also suggest not completely fighting your DM. Keep in mind that D&D is a cooperative effort and if you fight your DM at every turn there is no story. This is not to say that you shouldn't speak up if you have problems so they can be resolved, but fighting for the sake of fighting simply leads to no one having fun.

Also did she give a reason for giving you "unlimited spell slots"? Cause while at your current level you are rather weak the wizard is overall one of the most powerful classes in the game, so it seems like an odd choice.

[fishyfishyfishy]

How can possibly cast gate at 4th level? I imagine this "unlimited spell slots" has something to do with it?

It sounds to me like you guys should find a new role playing system or just stick to the rules outlined in the core rule books. Deviating from them is inadvisable for those who don't have a high level of system mastery.

[Telonius]

First things first - talk to the DM about it, talk to the other players about it. The primary goal of the game is having fun. If not everybody is having fun, you need to figure out why.

Second ... I'm a bit confused by this:

"(we're level 4). But whenever I cast Gate or any other planar travel spell"

At level 4, the most you're going to be able to cast is a 2nd-level spell. Plane Shift is a 7th level spell, and Gate is a 9th. There may be some rules confusion on both ends here.

[BasketOfPuppies]

Yes the gate was from the unlimited spell slots. I've tried telling her how that deviation is very gamebreaking but she replies with "if a Fighter doesn't have a limit to the amount of times he can swing his sword, why does a Wizard have a limit to the amount of spells he can cast?" and she doesn't enjoy rulebooks, so I'm her walking library of rules and sourcebooks. She will often say that she wants Thing A to be done and have me find a way to make it possible.

EDIT: @Nikita: It IS the DM's job to make us do what they want, but she decided that, if our characters don't join up and go with the direction she wants us to, she'll kill us and make us start again until we "get it right."

ALSO: every time we've done a campaign, it's started with the PC's waking up is a field with amnesia and only being able to see the other PC's.

[Vhaidara]

Yes the gate was from the unlimited spell slots. I've tried telling her how that deviation is very gamebreaking but she replies with "if a Fighter doesn't have a limit to the amount of times he can swing his sword, why does a Wizard have a limit to the amount of spells he can cast?" and she doesn't enjoy rulebooks, so I'm her walking library of rules and sourcebooks. She will often say that she wants Thing A to be done and have me find a way to make it possible.

...Why is this person allowed to DM?

Honestly, from what you've said, this sounds like my first attempt to DM (ended badly), except I at least had a degree of rules mastery. Nothing compared to since I really started posting here, but I knew how the game worked (usually).

Someone who doesn't even have an interest in figuring out how the game works sounds like a terrible DM. Especially with the houserules she's throwing around.

My advice? You should be DMing. Or at least refuse to play unless she actually learns how to play the game. If she refuses and you don't want to stop the game, then just start feeding her information that you pull out of your hind quarters. Make yourself so unreliable that she has to learn it herself.

[Sir Chuckles]

Yes the gate was from the unlimited spell slots. I've tried telling her how that deviation is very gamebreaking but she replies with "if a Fighter doesn't have a limit to the amount of times he can swing his sword, why does a Wizard have a limit to the amount of spells he can cast?" and she doesn't enjoy rulebooks, so I'm her walking library of rules and sourcebooks. She will often say that she wants Thing A to be done and have me find a way to make it possible.

Write a campaign, and then politely ask her to step down from DMing.
The only time a DM should not know the rules is when everyone is learning the rules together.

While a loose campaign like that can be fun, when someone makes a statement like that, I think everyone except some parts of Paizo will vomit in shock.

Edit:

EDIT: @Nikita: It IS the DM's job to make us do what they want, but she decided that, if our characters don't join up and go with the direction she wants us to, she'll kill us and make us start again until we "get it right."

In short: NO. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FwiYNYlqJL0)

The opposite is true. The DM adapts to what the players want. It's the DM's job to make sure people are having fun while having fun thmselves.

[BasketOfPuppies]

...Why is this person allowed to DM?

Honestly, from what you've said, this sounds like my first attempt to DM (ended badly), except I at least had a degree of rules mastery. Nothing compared to since I really started posting here, but I knew how the game worked (usually).

Someone who doesn't even have an interest in figuring out how the game works sounds like a terrible DM. Especially with the houserules she's throwing around.

My advice? You should be DMing. Or at least refuse to play unless she actually learns how to play the game. If she refuses and you don't want to stop the game, then just start feeding her information that you pull out of your hind quarters. Make yourself so unreliable that she has to learn it herself.

..Huh. Never thought of that. I like what you're saying, but I'm nitpicky, so I agree with most of this, but I can't DM in long campaigns. I get inspirations for bits and pieces and occasionally a session or two but I have a hard time with getting all of the parts there.

EDIT: Thanks all for helping me solve this problem in, what, 20 minutes?

[Vhaidara]

My other piece of advice (if you do decide to try DMing) is to try running a campaign where you do next to no planning. As in, your planning should consist of flipping through some books and going "hey, that looks like it would be fun to fight!", writing down the CR and page number, and then, when an encounter is necessary, pick an appropriate one.

For story elements, wing it. One of my games just ended with our Whale-person crusader (WPC) finding a clam that can only talk to aquatic beings and is actually a dude named Chester who was turned into a clam. This came out of the following dialogue
WPC: I go out in town to make friends (he does this in every town, ignoring the fact that he's a 1000lb whale with legs)
DM: You end up near the docks.
WPC: I make friends near the docks.
DM: You find a clam.
WPC: I make friends with people at the docks.
DM: The clam tries to make friends with you!

No, this was not planned. At all. So random can be awesome.
Another idea is start the campaign at a higher level. Especially if your using stuff based on CR and how cool it looks, I would start at a level where getting your hands on True Ress isn't overly difficult. CR appropriate encounters are rarely CR appropriate.

[NikitaDarkstar]

EDIT: @Nikita: It IS the DM's job to make us do what they want, but she decided that, if our characters don't join up and go with the direction she wants us to, she'll kill us and make us start again until we "get it right."


Yhea that is a trip down the oh-****-rails with the crazy-train coming straight at you right there. Aka not a good thing at all. What I meant with my statement was more along the lines of "It's the DM's job to eventually get you to the npc/location/whatever you need to keep the story going. And it's your job as a player to not actively fight against it at every turn cause then there will be no story and no one will have fun." That's within reason. But it's also the DM's job to move a few things around when the players decide they'd rather explore the town than go dungeon delving. Now if you randomly decide to steal a ship and become pirates when everyone sat down with the expectation of exploring the Underdark the DM would be justified in at least calling a time-out and asking "What the hell?!"

So you may need to change system, preferably something more rules-lite that your DM can actually learn and run properly. Or get you or one of the other players to run a game instead, preferably someone who knows what they're doing, with some luck it may be able to show her how it's actually done. And talk to her. Explain the problem, explain why it's a problem and explain that if you're going to play a game with rules everyone needs to know and be able to follow the rules. Or at least be willing to look them up. Show her this thread if need be.

Also her reasoning for the unlimited spell-slots is somewhat valid but she seems to have misunderstood how spells works. She's given you unlimited spell-slots and spell-levels, and while it may make a certain amount of sense (mind you not balanced, but from a "logical" viewpoint with minimal system understanding) to be able to cast all the spells you know as often as you want, sort of like the mages in computer games. And while horribly broken it's kind of cool and it's easy to see where she's getting the idea. The problem is she accidentally gave a lvl 4 toys access to the lvl 20 wizard toys, and if she won't listen to reason as to why that is horribly broken I ask you for the sake of the other players to not abuse that. Or abuse it hard enough to show her why she's wrong. Heck if you're going that route, feel free to pull out your epic level handbook while you're at it.

[Vhaidara]

Heck if you're going that route, feel free to pull out your epic level handbook while you're at it.

Oooooh, Maybe you could Wightpocalypse Hell!

[The Glyphstone]

Oooooh, Maybe you could Wightpocalypse Hell!

Sadly, Wightpocalypse requires Humanoids, which will be in short supply in Hell.

[rmnimoc]

Sadly, Wightpocalypse requires Humanoids, which will be in short supply in Hell.

Curse of Lycanthropy.

Let wightpocalypse begin!

[Sir Chuckles]

Sadly, Wightpocalypse requires Humanoids, which will be in short supply in Hell.

Depends on where in hell you are.

I say you do a Verdigris Tsunami.

[Invader]

Unlimited spells slots doesn't equate to being able to cast any spell? You still shouldn't be able to cast 9th level spells.

That aside this seems like a case of pretty drastic rules changing so it might be best if someone more familiar with D&D becomes the DM. That would* probably alleviate some of the major problems.

[NikitaDarkstar]

Conveniently forgetting this part of the spell-description?
Any creature that currently has 101 or more hit points is unaffected by power word kill. Or was it just a weaker demon? :p Then again, demons in Hell? Right-y then. :p

[BasketOfPuppies]

She let it fly and I didn't want to hit the party with a Wail of the Banshee.

[Oncoming Storm]

This sounds like a bit of a thorny problem, because the DM in question is your Aunt (but then again, you never want to truly offend someone in your playgroup,) but I absolutely agree that she should NOT be dming.

Doesn't read the rulebooks? sheesh, that's a basic prerequisite for PLAYING long term, much less dming. Gives wizard infinite spells of any level at level 4? And then abitrarily and unpredictably makes things not work for no reason? jeeeeeez. This sounds utterly un-fun for all concerned.

What I'd do first is play a wizard with infinite spell slots the way it should rightfully be played. HAVE a million contingencies, spam simulacrums, and summon a planetar to trivialize encounters, and Genesis planes into being EVERYWHERE. Come up with at least 3 different win-buttons per encounter (different ones each time, shouldn't be too hard.) DEMONSTRATE, in excruciating detail, how broken her house-rule is. True, the fighter can swing his sword as infinitum, but each swing does not fundamentally restructure the cosmos in a gamebreaking way.

If she gets the hint, great. Use the opening to suggest she read the rules, or pass dming off to someone who can (or at least, co-dm with someone with decent rules-mastery, if no one else has any plot-fu.) If she doesn't, and just responds with a great big NOPE button every time you try to play your class as she's described it, she IS NOT ALLOWING YOU TO PLAY YOUR CHARACTER. She is playing your character FOR you, which isn't DnD at all. If you can run through 3 or 4 different rules-legal options per encounter which get nixed, the level of ridiculousness should become apparent for everyone in the group.

[GoblinArchmage]

As everyone else has said, your aunt should not be the DM if she has absolutely no grasp of how the game works. I have played with a similar DM, and it wasn't very much fun.

I would advise against intentionally breaking her game, though. You should probably just talk to her. If she gets offended at the fact that you aren't having fun because she doesn't know the rules, than that's on her, not you.

[Killer Angel]

Yes the gate was from the unlimited spell slots. I've tried telling her how that deviation is very gamebreaking but she replies with "if a Fighter doesn't have a limit to the amount of times he can swing his sword, why does a Wizard have a limit to the amount of spells he can cast?"

:smallsigh:

well, anyway, have you tried to explain that "unlimited spell slots" is very different from "I cast spells that i shouldn't have access too"?
Using the same line of reasoning, the 4th lev. fighter, should be able to use Greater Weapon Specialization...

[TheDarkDM]

Have you considered she might just be doing this to spend time with you and that's why she seems wholly uninterested in actually learning the system? Of course I know neither of you, so I could be completely off the mark.

[Vhaidara]

Okay, I just noticed the comment about it being your aunt and not wanting to ruin the relationship. I retract the part of my advice that was basically be an *** to drive her out of DMing.

[BasketOfPuppies]

Have you considered she might just be doing this to spend time with you and that's why she seems wholly uninterested in actually learning the system? Of course I know neither of you, so I could be completely off the mark.

This made me think a bit. I spend a fair amount of time with her, but not my cousin, who is trying to get in to what I do so we can spend time together. She might be doing this so my cousin could spend some time with us (but she can't play D&D either, but that's a different problem). I think that, if that's her reason, we can try to find a different way for us to spend time together.

[Faily]

Talk with them about it and offer to DM them instead so they can learn the rules with you.

I know you said you don't have patience for long campaigns, but I'd recommend going for some of the published adventures that aren't nescessarily very long and could take them from level 1 and up, so they can learn as they go.

Running pre-published helps alot with avoiding "losing inspiration", since it's already there for you.

If you just want short adventures, you could do things like Sunless Citadel, and similar modules (our Pathfinder group have been running BECMI-adventures, which the GM just upgraded to Pathfinder mechanics). If you want something longer, try Red Hand of Doom... or you could go for the longer ones like Shackled City, Age of Wyrms, and Savage Tide.

Pathfinder have published many adventure paths which get alot of good reception too it seems. I can't say anything certain on them myself though as I have not played through them yet.

[Bloodgruve]

House rules that deviate so far from RAW make it harder for the DM to deal with. I've house ruled some stuff in my game, thinking it wouldn't impact anything, I regret doing so now as even a small rules change can be far reaching.

Any DM that's new or doesn't have a good grasp on the game really should try to run it as close to RAW as they can manage. Atleast for their first campaign to lvl 20. After that they should have enough experience to make informed decisions and house rule stuff at their whim.

Tell her you want to play 3.5 or whatever edition you're running. And you expect that the rules be followed if you're expected to play in the game.
If I'm a player I build my character and expect that the game runs the way it should.

A DM's job is to present scenarios to players that challenge them. But most of all its their job to make sure the group has fun. I feel like house ruling, limiting players like that, and railroading the campaign is selfish, unfair and irresponsible as a DM.

Pathfinder has some great Adventure Paths that could be a great option for your group to play through one. You should pick one up and run it for the group to show her how it works. I've just started Rise of the Runelords and it quite fun as the DM, the reprint even gives you an idea of when the group should level up and lets you know what you need to use as foreshadowing. You're supposed to finish the campaign at lvl 18 or so. Have her run a fighter and let someone else run a wizard so she can see what happens...


GL
Blood~

[Captnq]

I can help with your DM.

You dig the pit and carry the body. My back isn't what it used to be. I'll bring the lime and asphalt. Layer of asphalt, Body, layer of lime, then a layer of asphalt. The noobs all use concrete but my experience has been if the layer of concrete is too thin, the cadaver dogs will have no problem smelling him. Concrete is rather porous and the scent seems to flow right through.

Oh. Wait. I just read your post a little better. Hrmm...

Alas, I do not have my Noob DM Handbook finished. I have been sidetracked into writing a Familiar handbook. Regardless, he seems to need some help. So. Let's take him back to basics (http://www.minmaxboards.com/index.php?topic=9479.msg153181#msg153181). Seriously. I think he needs to start over from scratch if he's giving a wizard unlimited spells.

[BasketOfPuppies]

So I just talked to her and she was oddly understanding. She understood the error of her ways and has agreed to not DM until she reads the rulebooks.