[PF] Dual form bosses

[Shinken]

Hey, guys.
You know how in some videogames you defeat a boss and then he transforms, becoming a monster, and you have to fight it again?
I like doing that kind of thing in my game, keeping it for climatic fights. In 3.5, I did it with Craft Contingent Spell - revivify + heal to get them back in the fight plus whatever transformation spell I wanted.
Pathfinder doesn't have multiple contingencies (for good reason), so in my current game I'm using modifier orbs of dragonkind. They have all the powers of orbs of dragonkind and orbs of dragonshape, plus if you're defeated when you have one, it casts heal + form of the dragon III on you. So far it only happened once (my players are fighting an organization that is gathering the robs) but the effect was so very well. I even threw a Valkyrie Profile reference for good measure - "my soul burns... my power has awakened!"

Of course, I won't be able to use the orbs of dragonkind every campaign (neither do I want to do it). Basically, what I'm asking here is:
- do you have any stories about dual form bosses in your Pathfinder game?
- do you know of any ways to get dual form bosses in the Pathfinder rules, even if you haven't used it yourself?

Thanks in advance!

[Bickerstaff]

Schism Hydras could work. But it's less two forms, and more replicating the one form when it gets hit.

[VanIsleKnight]

My DM had a dual form boss, there was (probably) no mechanical way that they were connected to each other, he simply wanted to have a boss with two stages. We were fine with this, and loved it.

If you can fluff it enough with descriptions etc, it'll work.

My dual form boss was a mite riding on a spider, who was fighting the party in a cramped maze-like area with a ton of crates making movement difficult for them while he ran around on walls and the ceiling throwing things. The second part of that boss fight was when he escaped down the hall into the evil PLOT goo, which was meant to do a bunch of stuff to him as well as corrupt his soul.

They beat him down past the point where he had no HP left in his first form (I simply considered him defeated and not killed/knocked unconscious though I could have arbitrarily set an HP number to use as a marker to run away instead) and had a second set of stats for his second form.

You don't need to be a slave to the rulebooks for cool things like that. :D If you have an idea and want to use it, use it.

[Passer-by]

It's Pathfinder, so a Synthesist Summoner could cast Summon Eidolon either as a standard action or a swift action if he's enough level to cast quickened spells, or has a lesser metamagic rod. He transforms into a big winged monster that is more powerful than before, just like in videogames.

[Keneth]

Why bother trying to find some convoluted way of making this work within the ruleset? It's not like any of the players are gonna point a finger and go "THE BBEG CAN'T DO THAT". Boss creatures can do whatever they want, or they wouldn't be boss creatures.

[The Insanity]

You can simply make the boss be able to transform himself and do it when he's half health. No contingency revives needed.

[Spore]

You can simply make the boss be able to transform himself and do it when he's half health. No contingency revives needed.

To give a fluffy reason to not use a powerful form: Maybe the boss didn't he'd need the more powerful form. Maybe it's painful or inconvenient to transform for single battles.

[Anderlith]

Instead of going from small to big think of it the other way around. Find something suitably nasty & then think of how it can have a humanoid body & such & seem like a normal BBEG

[The Insanity]

Instead of going from small to big think of it the other way around. Find something suitably nasty & then think of how it can have a humanoid body & such & seem like a normal BBEG
Classic dragon thing. They like to mingle with humanoids.

[Shinken]

Why bother trying to find some convoluted way of making this work within the ruleset? It's not like any of the players are gonna point a finger and go "THE BBEG CAN'T DO THAT". Boss creatures can do whatever they want, or they wouldn't be boss creatures.

I don't think any of this is convoluted. I just like to keep stuff internally consistent.
Like I mentioned in the OP, I'm currently using a slightly altered artifact for this. That's the same thing as saying "the boss can do X", except it provides a reason for why it is so.


It's Pathfinder, so a Synthesist Summoner could cast Summon Eidolon either as a standard action or a swift action if he's enough level to cast quickened spells, or has a lesser metamagic rod. He transforms into a big winged monster that is more powerful than before, just like in videogames.
That works pretty well as a contingency as well. Hmm.
He could fight using his Summon Monster SLA first, summoning a new one as soon as it's killed, then when the summoner is finally defeated... contingency kicks in. There's no need for healing, either, with the temp hp from the eidolon. Very good!

[Tevesh]

I think it's important to have these boss fights go like that just due to how often Rocket Tag occurs in D&D. There's no drama if the fight is over and the enemy hasn't used all its' cool abilities.

I usually got for 3 tiers because it's more dramatic. The warm up, the big baddie's climax and then you've got him on the ropes.

There's two ways I've heard to do this. The first is you slap 3 monsters under one skin. For example, let's say you final boss is a CR 15 Hill Giant. Instead of building one CR 15 Hill Giant, you build three CR 12 Hill Giants. Each Hill Giant is different, the second one is probably the most optimized while the first and final show 'warm up' and 'on the ropes'.

So, for example, the first firm could be a Hulking Hurler CR 12 Hill Giant who throws rocks at the PCs as they close. Form two is War Hulk CR 12 Hill Giant who uses his club to make Standard attacks on a bunch of PCs. The final form is a Scout CR 12 Hill Giant who runs away and throws rocks at the deadly PCs.

In retrospect, this might be the easiest method.

I tend to follow another method where I take the monster, slap some feats on it but leave some of the feats blank for now. I then divide the HP in thirds and spend those feats in different ways. I might have triggers as it goes through the transformations, I got the idea originally from this blog:
http://angrydm.com/2010/04/the-dd-boss-fight-part-1/

I used that to create this boss fight, just to show the difference:
When Abdicatus-I iniatives combat, he releases a Dispel 30' Burst targetting all ongoing effects at Dispel +19 followed up wih Haste. Stage 1 will attempt to quickly dispatch foes, using Quickened Circle of Doom with melee touch attacks.

When Stage I has been reduced to approximately 50% HP for the first time, Abdicatus will Time Stop. During this Time Stop, Abdicatus will use Limited Wish to Arcane Fusion (Repair Critical 4d8+19 plus Fists of Stone: +3 Atk/Dmg, +1 Additional Attack w/o Haste), Forcecage the largest threat, and Haste.

Abdicatus-I, Varakhut Invevitable, Stage 1
HP 117 DR 20/Chaotic and Adamantine Fast Heal 20
Init +6
AC 42 T 27 F 13
F +7 R +9 W +11
SR 30

10' Touch +22/+22 (2d10+8)

Feats
- 3/D Quickened Circle of Doom

Cast: Haste

SLA-AW
Circle of Doom (20' Burst d8+19/Fort 24 Half), Hold Monster (Will 24), Dominate (Will 28)

SLA-3/D
Teleport w/o Error

When Abdicatus-I, Stage 1 is reduced to 0 HP, Abdicatus-I Stage 2 begins combat at that new initiative. Cancel any negative effects. Stage 2 immediately releases a Dispel 30' at +19 followed up with a Haste. Stage 2 will use Meteor Swarm at the 4 PCs it thinks has the lowest Touch and/or Reflex Saves with an even distribution: +18 Touch for 2d6 Bludge/6d8 Fire No Safe if Hit. 40' Burst 6d8/Reflex 28.

During Stage 2, Abdicatus-I's Melee Attacks gain the Range of 60'. Stage Two will use Quickened DimDoor to get away from the PCs, perhaps even right after casting Meteor Swarm. If the PCs swarm Stage 2, he'll use Circle of Doom and jet away. If only a few PCs have gotten close, he'll DimDoor and just use regular Touch Attacks.

When Stage 2 has been reduced to approximately 50% HP for the first time, Abdicatus will Time Stop. During this Time Stop, Abdicatus will use Limited Wish to Arcane Fusion (Repair Critical 4d8+19 plus Shield +4 AC), Forcecage the largest threat and use Wish to Summon a Greater Huge Storm Elemental. The Storm Elemental will unleash its Thunder and Lightning as often as possible, using Shock on the least damaged looking PC and attack whatever it think it could hit.

Abdicatus-I, Varakhut Invevitable, Stage 2
HP 117 DR 20/Chaotic and Adamantine Fast Heal 20
Init +6
AC 42 T 27 F 13
F +7 R +9 W +11
SR 30

10' Touch +21/+21 (2d10+6)

Feats
- Quickened Dim Door 3/D

SLA-AW
Circle of Doom (20' Burst d8+19/Fort 24 Half), DimDoor, Dominate (Will 28), Haste, Hold Monster (Will 24), Locate Person

3/D - Teleport w/o Error

Huge Storm Elemental
HP 241 DR 10/-
Init +4
AC 22 T 8 F 22
F +13 R +12 W +7

15' Slam +27/+27/+22 (3d6+15 plus 2d6 Electricity)

Shock - Swift - 1 Target 8d4/Fort 24 Half
1/Min - 60' Burst Thunder 8d6/Fort 24; Lightning Bolt 120' 16d6/Reflex 24.

Feats
- Big Bruiser (1/R - AoO 5' Steps)

When Abdicatus-I, Stage 2 is reduced to 0 HP, Abdicatus-I Stage 3 begins combat at the new initiative. Cancel any negative effects. Stage 3 immediately releases a Dispel 30' at +19 and cast Haste. Desperate, Stage 3 will Plane Shift (Will 26) on the PC that dealt the killing blow to Stage 2.

Stage 3 will stay away from the PCs, using Quickened DimDoors and attempting to slow them down with Quickened Dominates and Quickened Hold Person. Stage 3 will use Circle of Doom to do damage, now attempting to stay outside of the reach of the PCs and not even engage in combat but rely purel on spell slinging.

When Stage 3 has been reduced to approximately 50% HP for the first time, Abdicatus will Time Stop. During this Time Stop, Abdicatus will use Limited Wish to Arcane Fusion (Repair Critical 4d8+19 plus Shield +4 AC), Forcecage the largest threat and Haste.

Abdicatus-I, Varakhut Invevitable, Stage 3
HP 117 DR 20/Chaotic and Adamantine Fast Heal 20
Init +6
AC 42 T 27 F 13
F +7 R +9 W +11
SR 30

10' Slam +21/+21 (2d10+6)

Feats
- Quickened Dim Door 3/D
- Quickened Dominate 3/D
- Quickened Hold Monster 3/D
- Empowered Circle of Doom (1.5 Damage) 6/D
- Fell Drain - If Dmged by spell, gains negative level (returns after 19 hours) 3/D

SLA-AW
Circle of Doom (20' Burst d8+19/Fort 24 Half), DimDoor, Dominate (Will 28), Haste, Hold Monster (Will 24), Locate Person.

Possession: Cloak of Charisma +6 (Trans - 36000), Mithril Mechanus Gear +5 (Trans - 35500)

Good luck and feel free to steal.

[Meth In a Mine]

Not sure if this was mentioned yet, but the Master Transmogrifist prestige class from Complete Arcane could be a possibility. As the character in question progresses, they get more forms they can polymorph into and can mix and match abilities from different forms to adapt to different tactical situations. So you could start fighting a wizard, but end up killing something like an umber hulk-ochre jelly- Medusa hybrid.