If the OOTS fought each other....

[Haruki-kun]

It just sorta came up...... if the Members of the OOTS were to fight each other, who would win?

I know it's very unlikely, but............... since it probably won't happen, the question is still there. So, whaddyathink?

[Setra]

:vaarsuvius:

Edit: Nice thread, refreshing change of pace.

[Tornek the Unhygenic]

:elan: he's got Dashing Swordsman

[13_CBS]

I'e never actually played D&D before, but I would imagine V being at a severe disadvantage unless he managed to somehow be ignored and thus able to unleash his "world-shattering enchantments" effectively.

[Justinian]

1v1v1v1v1v1? Hell if I know. :haley: Hayley, maybe, if she can Hide until everyone else is down for the count or hurting, then pops out for sneak attack damage. Or :durkon: Durkon, using Sanctuary, could do the same, waiting the rest of the carnage out.

A series of successive 1v1, tallied for who wins the most? :durkon: Durkon. High level cleric, nuff said. Never bet against CoDzilla. Durkon is the least "showy" member of the order, and a major team player - but if he had all his spells to use as he desired, no way he'd lose.

[TakerFoxx]

One fireball, coming right up. V all the way.

[Yzorth]

V would fly up, negating melee, and blast. Nuff, said.

[Setra]

V would fly up, negating melee, and blast. Nuff, said.

I thought he didn't have Fly?

[A_S]

Ordinarily, I'd think :vaarsuvius: would have a chance...high-level arcane casters are pretty powerful if they can buff. However, I don't think we've ever seen V use a defensive buff spell. He seems to prefer the "stand behind the meat shield and nuke" style of spell casting.

That being the case, I'd say :durkon: has it in the bag.

[Finwe]

:elan: he's got Dashing Swordsman


Of which he has one level. Everyone else in the group, however, has at least twelve levels of classes that are useful in combat.


That said, my bet is on CODzilla (i.e. Durkon).

V might have a chance if he's able to be pretty much ignored for most of the fight/uses buff spells, which we've never seen him do.

[Justinian]

Of which he has one level. Everyone else in the group, however, has at least twelve levels of classes that are useful in combat.

Oddly enough, Bards are very useful in combat... when you have 6 people on your team. :smallbiggrin: I love playing Bards, after Paladins and Fighters they're my favorite. My last Fighter had a Bard cohort via leadership. :smallsmile:

In a deathmatch or battle royale, though? Yeah, buff songs and spell list not so useful.

[Estelindis]

Durkon: with buffs like Thor's Might, and the ability to heal himself, he has both the offensive ability and the staying power necessary to defeat most of the other members of the OotS.

His low reflex save would be a problem against V's evocation spells - amid a barrage of fireballs and lightning bolts, he might not be able to sustain concentration or heal himself quickly enough. However, a few hammer thwacks would probably be enough to stop the wizard casting.

[That Lanky Bugger]

Even though :belkar: is my favourite, I've got to give it to :durkon:. OotS clerics have pretty good melee, pretty good offensive spells (control weather with Thor sitting on his shoulder, anyone?), and :durkon:'s ability to fully heal himself would pretty much negate :vaarsuvius:'s ability to deal a lot of damage.

[Shattersnap]

:roy: if he could get in close and quick, or :vaarsuvius: if he could not. Although we have not seen much yet, :elan: new abilities seem quite impressive also. I mean, he essentially has 18 strength in a fight now due to his charisma (as long as he can come up with a stinging insult), in addition to his bard spells. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt. I think :elan: has a good chance.

[PirateMonk]

What range from each other are they at the beginning? Does Belkar have the MoJ? Probably not Elan, though.

[Fighteer]

Let's see... Roy has incredible tenacity, but he has a severe weakness in the range department. Durkon is a cleric, master of defensive battle, but I can't really see him willingly fighting anyone except possibly Belkar. On attack, Vaarsuvius has an undeniable advantage, but on defense he's as fragile as the next d4 hit die creature. Elan is absolutely incapable of outthinking anyone, unless Haley were to die first, in which case he'd probably spontaneously gain a level of Barbarian. Haley is weak in melee but has the advantage of stealth. And lastly, Belkar is so hated by everyone that they'd probably gang up to kill him first.

In a party of PCs with equivalent gear and character levels, it seems like the favorite is whoever wins initiative...

And whoever said Durkon because of Control Weather, that takes a bit long to cast to qualify for a battle royale, unless he could somehow manage to completely stay out of the fight long enough. And if Vaarsuvius managed to get off an uninterrupted string of spells, the battle would be as good as over.

[Jewel Thief]

:vaarsuvius: or :durkon:

Roy would last awhile though.

If Haley hid and sneak attacked, she'd last awhile. Otherwise, she'd be down first. I could see Elan tumbling about and using his dashing swordsman and illusion abilities to a great comic effect, but eventually he'd be taken out. Durkon's a good bet, but V would blow the crap out of him, and possibly the others, because V does ignore the rules every now and then in her ability's powers.

[FullPlateJacket]

Durkon can heal himself almost indefinately. Unless the rest of the order ganged up on him, they couldn't KO him in one round. V can deal raw damage, but doesn't have any defenses to prevent from being taken down. Roy and Elan both have good sword skills, but lack any major damage dealing attacks and cannot protect themselves more than just by virtue of illusions or armor. Belkar con go psycho on someone's ass but can't defend himself at all. Haley has evasion to protect from all the spells (not to mention a presumably good AC), so she may be able to sneak out a win just due to attrition. But apart from that Durkon has the clear advantage.

[Swordguy]

V. Just for the sheer shock value of using Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion against PCs.

Definitely Durkon as the next most likely winner, though.

Then Roy.

[Justinian]

What range from each other are they at the beginning? Does Belkar have the MoJ? Probably not Elan, though.

It really doesn't matter if the MoJ is active or not...

A halfling ranger dual-wielding Small short swords that themselves have no significant magical properties on them is so suboptimal and so non-min / maxed as to have just about zero chance in either scenario. Even with L1 Barbarian features thrown in.

Pre-Dashing Swordsman, I might have bet on Belkar to win 1 out of 5 matches, assuming Elan didn't use his spells properly, but at this point, I can't honestly see him beating any of them in a straight fight.

[starwoof]

There would be a pretty boss battle until it came down to :roy: and :vaarsuvius:. Realistically, Roy would probably get his arse kicked in because a high level wizard like :vaarsuvius: could just annhihilate him, but in the world of comics :roy: would come out on top because he's like, the main(est) character.

[Demented]

Oh, Elan would win.
Nobody would be willing to hurt the innocent idiot.

[mport2004]

my money would be on V

[HomerHT]

In a battle royale, all V has to do is cast invisibility, wait til everyone except one person is dead, then the battle is severely in his favor. Durkon will probably be the last one standing due to...well, being a cleric. If Durkon is out of healing spells, a quick dispel from V will make Durkon severely less threatening.

In individual one on one battles? Durkon. Cleric. Win.

[Setra]

[roll0]
Hmm
[roll1]

I'd say V could take out Durkon in one hit.

[Wyborn]

If it's a melee, all the characters with positive Int modifiers will hit V. Keep in mind Roy is a strategist, so he's going to hit V as hard as he can, as fast as he can, and he's not going to stop. Belkar hates V so that's a given - V will be dead in two rounds, tops, and if he manages to get off one spell during that course of time I will be shocked.

After that it's a matter of whether or not Roy's smarts can best the fact that Durkon is the best tank they have - if he can get someone else to focus on Durkon along with him, Roy would have it in the bag.

[Tussy the Druid]

Vaarsuvius. why?

"Hey party member! Disentegrate. Disentegrate."

[Kaiox]

V would win probably. cast invisibility, then cast "Evans spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion"

[Setra]

Vaarsuvius. why?

"Hey party member! Disentegrate. Disentegrate."

Presuming everyone was in the same area, he could probably do that.

Though some might make their saves, it'll still hurt... a lot.

[Pyrian]

...Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion...

If Vaarsuvius gets off a spell, then he/she wins. End of story...

[Setra]

If Vaarsuvius gets off a spell, then he/she wins. End of story...

Unless Haley is wearing a school girl uniform, then she gets a Deus Ex Machina Save, and is healed.

[heretic]

:haley: has an advantage, because :elan: won't hurt her. :vaarsuvius: has to few hit points and somebody would take her/him out. The answer? :thog: Group Hug! Just kidding. I voted :belkar: .

[Jorkens]

Oh, Elan would win.
Nobody would be willing to hurt the innocent idiot.
Erm, Belkar?

[Krellen]

Vaarsuvius is the only viable answer, in a realistic situation. If they suddenly were dropped in a situation where they were at odds with one another, Durkon, Haley, Elan and Roy would have a momentary pause to assess the situation - while remaining wary of Belkar, who they'd all expect to turn on them instantly. No one would really see Vaarsuvius's spells coming (they assume V is Good, but honestly s/he seems more True Neutral, which means if left without other options, s/he chooses him/herself over the others.)

[ArtDandelay]

Belkar. He would fight dirty.

[NecroPaladin]

I know it's very unlikely, but............... since it probably won't happen, the question is still there. So, whaddyathink?

Unlikely my bony Holy Unholy butt!

(my avatar's just the basic template demon right now, but it'll be an undead paladin soon enough...I just really don't want to draw right now because I was drawing all day. Stick with me)

You're talking about Belkar. When he was charmed (or was it suggested? Whatever, they do almost the same thing) it was counted within his alignment to butcher his companions and take all of their valuables.

VAARSUVIUS EXCRUTIATINGLYEXTENSIVELASTNAMEIDONTWANNALOOKUP

But in the odd event that someone other than Belkar would be fighting too, my bet is on V. He can destroy Roy or Belkar before they get close enough to be a threat, he would have the capacity to destroy Elan in the unlikely event that Elan might be a threat, and likely someone of his intellect would be hiding something nasty in the case of a sneak attack. Durkon may at first appear to equal him, but then consider that Durkon's normal role is as support. He is simply not suited to 1v1 combat, and arcane spells tend to be the really focused, damaging ones. Even though it would take a while to cast the really potent stuff, he probably has a large enough repetiore of spells to just immobilize/hold/stun his opponent until he can do something big. And by big, I mean "what was once Roy Greenhilt is now a series of vaguely endothermic off-magenta stains set at regular intervals along the rafters."

V:vaarsuvius: : Most Likely Winner.:thog:

Why Thog to represent winning? I like Thog.

HALEY STARSHINE

Haley could have the upper hand, but only if she was able to sneak up on her target. Considering that Durkon or V would have magical counters to this, and that Belkar is simply too small and twitchy a target to be able to rely on a clean hit, the only obvious targets are Roy and Elan. That said, if Roy wasn't finished off by the first attack, though (and with substantial fighter HP and AC, he probably wasn't), he would promptly proceed to slice away again and again with his superior non-sneak-attack melee damage until she was literally liquidized. And Haley could have a good shot against Elan, but obviously there's a bit of a distraction in fighting your lover. Not to mention the entire fact that they're romantically involved would mean that Mr. Dashing Swordsman would have enough one-liner fodder to last him a 700-round battle, or more if he gets really personal. That said,

Haley:haley: :Probable Loser:xykon: .

BELKAR BITTERLEAF

Belkar is vicious, but even if capable of lethal damage again, utterly lacking in both self-preservation instinct and the ability to distinguish threats as something other than "Killable." I could see him beating Elan, becaue Elan can see evil for evil, but doesn't really register that he should probably avoid the evil guy with the knives. Up close, Elan would probably be lacking in one-liners, considering anything bad you could say about Belkar he would probably embrace. I think that considering his size, he would have a close fight with Roy but end up losing; Roy may have better AC and Belkar may dish out more damage, but in the end Roy just has a better grip on that the goal is to fight, not discombobulate. Similarly, he'd just charge at V or Durkon and not register the Disintegrate or Sarcophagus of Stone until it was too late. He's much like Roy in fighting Haley; if he survived the initial sneak attack, he would no doubt process her into discount pet chow over the course of the next few rounds (remember, he has barbarian levels so his melee is actually quite potent).

Belkar:belkar: : Possible Winner :smile:

DURKON, CLERIC OF THOR

Durkon would be able to hold his own against melee types like Roy, Belkar, and Haley, particularly the latter because of her lower HP. I'd assume that he'd beat Belkar because he happens to have the ability to think on a level beyond "predator mode." Roy would be a very tough nut to crack; the fight could go either way depending on whether Roy overcomes the saves or not. Durkon, as mentioned earlier, would ultimately lose to V. I assume that Elan would be fun; again, Durkon is so amiable and true of heart that it would be very hard for Elan to find a flaw to make fun of, except for maybe ONE beard joke; he'd likely have to resort to his diminishing library of bad puns.
And besides, Durkon would just mash Elan like a potato on principle. I mean, we're talking Thor vs. Banj'thulhu here. And Banj'thulhu does'nt really look like he's reaching greater diety status anytime soon. In the end, Durkon's weaknesses as a character built to help others outweigh his still-impressive combat capability.

Durkon:durkon: : Possible Loser :roach:

ROY GREENHILT

I've matched Roy against every other profile, and so you can simply look to those to see how he'd do; thus, this will be very brief. As the solid center of the party, Roy is also the solid average of power.

Roy:roy: : Could Win or Lose:roy:

ELAN, PROPHET OF BANJO

Okay, even with his dashing swordsman levels, you'd have to have never read the comic before to not think he's boned. I mean, a -3 penalty to intelligence and wisdom is never a good thing for a character whose main role is now to get into the thick of the fighting. The only thing that Elan could possibly hope for is that Haley loves him enough that maybe she'd just take pity and let him beat her. As for the others, he'd only win in the even of a miracle. Which, as I stated earlier, Banj'thulhu isn't doing any time soon.

Elan:elan: : Couldn't beat a non-animated mailbox, because there really aren't that many one-liners about mailboxes out there. To summarize, Cannon Fodder.:redcloak:

[Wyborn]

Vaarsuvius is the only viable answer, in a realistic situation. If they suddenly were dropped in a situation where they were at odds with one another, Durkon, Haley, Elan and Roy would have a momentary pause to assess the situation - while remaining wary of Belkar, who they'd all expect to turn on them instantly. No one would really see Vaarsuvius's spells coming (they assume V is Good, but honestly s/he seems more True Neutral, which means if left without other options, s/he chooses him/herself over the others.)

Thinking is a free action.

V, as the most dangerous and most frail member of the team, is going to die first. What's the first rule in any big battle? Kill the spell-casters.

[mockingbyrd7]

Based on what we've seen, my ranking goes like this (this isn't how long they'd stand, this is the likelyhood of them winning)

1. Vaarsuvius - I'd love to see V use Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion on Belkar! He/she would decimate everyone else, most likely.

2. Durkon - Although not flashy and showy and he's team healer, when Durkon shines he shines BRIGHT. He can control lightning, heal, buff, fight, and just about does it all. Close behind V.

3. Roy - Clad in heavy armor and wielding a +5 Ancrestal Starmetal sword that glows when he's angry. Also can drop multiple teammates at once with Great Cleave.

4. Belkar - Cunning, resourceful, good at setting traps, high melee damage, can "kite" with throwing daggers, can hide, can use Ring of Jumping to his advantage, and more. Close behind Roy.

5. Haley - Can hide and move silently with expert proficiency, and does very good damage from a range with sneak attack. But if she's caught in melee, she's toast, and she simply can't compare her damage output to the others. Picking locks and disarming traps isn't needed in a battle like this.

6. Elan - Can distract his teammates with "cunning" illusions, does moderate damage with his rapier, and can buff himself. That's about it... Elan is my favorite character, but taking down his gimped, multi-classed, nearly unarmed, unarmored brother doesn't really make him a master of combat all of a sudden. Sorry. Singing and support isn't needed in a battle like this.

[Justinian]

There's no way Belkar does more physical damage than Roy. Power Attack and Weapon Specialization with a greatsword versus Two-Weapon Fighting plus Rage with a couple of Small-sized shortswords, which do the same damage as Medium-sized daggers. Unless I'm wrong, and they ARE Small-sized daggers, which is even worse.

[Wyborn]

This calls for GEEKERY!

If Roy were to use the strongest attack we've seen out of him so far (Great Cleave, I guess?), would that kill V in one hit? For that matter, wouldn't Haley's sneak attack essentially make V explode? Hell, even Belkar might be able to down him in one round if he gets a decent roll.

We are assuming this is an out-and-out brawl, unless I am assuming incorrectly. In situations like that V simply will not survive - if it was a duel, sure, he could probably kill anyone on the team in one or two hits, but in a situation where he can't focus-fire without being massacred? He's almost a non-factor.

[Justinian]

If Roy were fighting V, Roy's dead, period, unless he started off right next to V and won initiative. If he had to move more than 5', his only chance would be a monster crit with Power Attack.

[Wyborn]

Only thing is that Roy's not going to be the only one fighting V. Like I said, anyone without a negative Intelligence modifier is going to attack V first simply because he's a walking nuke. He's going to be Power Attack'd, Sneak Attack'd, just whatever the hell they can hit him with, and if he's at 13d4 health I just can't see him surviving long enough to get off more than one spell. And we all know who he's going to shoot, knowing that he's dying in that same round.

That's right.

Belkar's a non-contender too.

[Mr_Saturn]

Durkon or V

:durkon: :vaarsuvius:

:biggrin:

[Krellen]

If Roy were to use the strongest attack we've seen out of him so far (Great Cleave, I guess?), would that kill V in one hit?
Great Cleave is a mass-force feat, allowing Roy to attack a nearby opponent every time he drops his current target. When you're fairly high level fighting low-level opponents, like Roy in an army of 1st level hobgoblins, it's pretty devastating, but one-on-one it would never come into play.

That said, Roy's a 12th level Fighter. Anyone with that many Fighter levels has Greater Weapon Specialisation which, with its prerequisite feats, results in a +2 to hit and +4 to damage with the chosen weapon. A Greatsword does 2d6, +1.5 the wielder's strength modifier for a two handed weapon. Roy does, without Power Attack, 2d6+10, at a minimum - +15 with the +5 sword. Power Attack adds another +10, with a net +6 to hit (on top of class levels) with the +5 sword (opposed to a +11 without - 4 for strength, 5 for the sword, 2 for specialisation). So, on a critical power attack hit, Roy does 4d6 + 50. Given V's 13D4 hit dice, with no con modifier (s/he's an elf, with a Constitution penalty already), s/he has an average of 34 hit points. Roy's average crit? 64. (His average hit is 32.) A crit takes V right out, a hit not quite.

But I still maintain V would act before the others - aside from Belkar, probably, who would likely try to strike Roy or Durkon first, as the ones most annoying to him - due to his/her somewhat callous outlook on the world, and disable Roy - the biggest threat to V personally - with a Will-save based spell right out (able to cast 7th level spells, V could disable half the party - Roy, Haley and Belkar, and probably even Elan (despite his high Will save, his low Wisdom hurts him) - with a single spell, Mass Hold Person. Durkon blows right through that save, and might take down V with a Fort-based spell, but I find it unlikely Durkon would have Slay Living prepared. It's not in character.)

[Shadic]

I can't believe so many are voting V.

I mean, maybe in a 1 on 1 with enough distance, but in an all out Brawl? V has shown to have VERY little defense.

Durkon is a strong candidate, with his heal and Thor's Might. However, Roy has a much better weapon, greater range, is stronger, and I'm sure has a lot more hit-points. I would see those two fighting in the finish.

[Wyborn]

That seems reasonable (I've got nothing when it comes to Geekery) except for two counts.

1. If this is a melee we shouldn't be assuming that anyone is going to stand around for a full turn and think about what they want to do, essentially saying that their players get to their turn and say "pass".

2. Durkon and Roy are annoying to Belkar - but Belkar despises V with the white-hot force of ten thousand suns.

I still hold that any of them, assuming that we're talking about characters here, are going to hit V first simply because he is universally the biggest threat. Roy alone is going to nearly kill V in a single blow, if not outright murder him - at that point Elan could probably punch him in the face and finish him off.

[Orzel]

Belkar

Belkar excels at 1 v 1 combat.
He'd drag out the others 1 by 1. He last who long vs Miko when he was trying to die?
He's the best duelist in the Order and probably has the highest HP (how many fort saves is Roy gonna fail).

Wizards suck in fights with assorted combatants. Multiple saves plus lot of targets = no one spell win = death. No V.
Rogues do poorly in group fights. Same with archers. Haley's out.
Bard without help... Sorry Elan
CoDzilla = first target. Bye Durkon
Fighters typical do well in royales but Roy ain't a typical fighter with is bad saves. Roy Nope.

[PaladinFreak]

^, Please explain where the "Roy has bad saves" comes from.
Also, Wizards rule in fights with assorted combatents! They cast Suggestion on the Fighter, Hold Person on the Rogue, and Fireball on everyone else!

Well, if the all start out a good distance apart (say, 80 ft.), my money is on V, but if they start close quarters, I'd go for Roy or Durkon. Untill somebody decides for sure which one, I abstain.

[Krellen]

Please explain where the "Roy has bad saves" comes from.
Fighters have bad saves. Their one good save is Fortitude - for Roy, he's got a +8-9 in that. His Reflex and Will saves are probably about equal, around +4. At 13th level, DCs average 18. A +4 doesn't cut it.

Even if we assume simultaneous action - everyone figures it out at the same time and starts acting - the fact that V has a spell to disable 80% of his foes in one stroke (DC 21, assuming only an 18 Intelligence, vs. saves of +3-+7 for Haley, Elan, Roy and Belkar), and the one left - Durkon - can't take him/her down in a single round, we've got V on top. Though admitably, V vs. Durkon is the most interesting aspect here; given that V probably can't do enough damage in the two rounds it takes Durkon to surpass Roy's melee ability (Righteous Might + Divine Favour - and the Might's probably sufficient) we could still easily see Durkon come out on top. Unless he rolls a 8 or less on that first save (Durkon's Will Save is +12, possibly +13.))

So, flat out, V's got a 40% chance of winning the fight, outright, in the first round (and 75% of doing so in two.) That's pretty good odds, all things considered.

[Fighteer]

^, Please explain where the "Roy has bad saves" comes from.
Also, Wizards rule in fights with assorted combatents! They cast Suggestion on the Fighter, Hold Person on the Rogue, and Fireball on everyone else!
Fighters only get Fortitude as a primary saving throw; Reflex and Will are secondary. :roy: 's got excellent stats, but he can't possibly have enough Dexterity and Wisdom to make up for his basic class deficiencies.

The problem with a Wizard against groups is that he has to actually get the spells cast, which is very difficult considering his poor AC and attacks of opportunity. If he's in melee range when the whole thing goes down, he's toast. If not, he has a good chance if he wins initiative.

Again, I assert that it comes down almost entirely to initiative and range.

[Wyborn]

....Wait, when has V used Mass Hold Person?

[MaxAtkins]

V would be the most likely choice...

yet I think Elan as dashing swordsman might pull off a stunt (and + haley it's a team effort that counts as 1 :D)

[Fighteer]

....Wait, when has V used Mass Hold Person?
Not to mention that if he hasn't taken Quicken Spell (or is high enough level to apply it to Mass Hold Person), he's gonna get hit by a lot of attacks of opportunity...

[Krellen]

....Wait, when has V used Mass Hold Person?
S/he hasn't, but s/he has used Hold Person, so we know Enchantment is available to him/her. We also know s/he has 7th level spells (having cast Bigby's Grasping Hand before,) so why is it unreasonable to assume s/he knows another potent 7th level spell? S/he learned two upon gaining 13th level, after all.

[dragongirl13]

:vaarsuvius:

She's easily the most powerful party member, and with all those fireballs I'm sure she could kill or incapacitate almost anything as long as it didn't have damage reduction.

[Wyborn]

Granted, but wouldn't it have been deliriously useful during fights with, say, dozens of giant ogres running around and yelling? Or against all of those bandits? I don't think it's reasonable to assume that V has any particular spells that have not been shown in the repertoire.

Explain Quicken Spell? And how it owuld apply to Mass Hold Person?

I am like the goblins, I don't know the rules of Attack of Opportunity

[Fighteer]

Explain Quicken Spell? And how it owuld apply to Mass Hold Person?

I am like the goblins, I don't know the rules of Attack of Opportunity
First, there are actually no theoretical limits to the number of spells V can learn, especially since (s)he was given free run of Shojo's library. And the only time I remember seeing Hold Person cast in the comic was when Durkon did it to Thog (I could be wrong).

As for mechanics, Quicken Spell is a metamagic feat that makes the spell you apply it to cast as a free action (therefore, not subject to attacks of opportunity). It causes the spell so modified to occupy a slot four levels higher than it ordinarily would, so Mass Hold Person (a 7th level spell) would occupy a 11th level slot. Epic, these PCs are not. :-)

The rules for attacks of opportunity are probably among the least transparent in the entire 3E/3.5E manual, but basically whenever your opponent lets down their guard against you and is in a space you threaten, you can attack them as a free action (once per round, unless you take the Combat Reflexes feat). Casting a spell in melee range provokes an AoO, as does attacking with a ranged weapon, moving more than 5', moving from one threatened space to another, etc. The only mitigating factors for spellcasters are defensive casting (which requires a DC 15 + spell level Concentration check), or the Quicken Spell feat.

[Orzel]

^, Please explain where the "Roy has bad saves" comes from.


He's a fighter (poor Will and reflex)
He's pretty unlucky with many Fort saves (Stunning fist, poison)

[Krellen]

Granted, but wouldn't it have been deliriously useful during fights with, say, dozens of giant ogres running around and yelling? Or against all of those bandits? I don't think it's reasonable to assume that V has any particular spells that have not been shown in the repertoire.
Perhaps. The reason s/he didn't use it in any of those earlier situations, however, is because we don't have evidence s/he is 13th level (and thus has 7th level spells) until Strip #397 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0397.html).


Explain Quicken Spell? And how it would apply to Mass Hold Person?
All metamagic feats (<Blah> Spell) are applied to prepared spells, changing their casting in some way. Silent Spell and Still Spell, for instance, remove the Vocal and Somatic components of the spell, respectively. They also increase the effective level of the spell, for purpose of taking up spell slots (those two both add one level, making a 1st-level spell take a 2nd-level spot). Quicken Spell eliminates the casting time of the spell altogether, allowing, effectively, two spells to be cast in one round (despite the impression, it doesn't eliminate the Attack of Opportunity associated with the casting. Quicken Spell makes a spell four levels higher, though, making a Quickened Mass Hold Person an 11th-level spell, which is a slot available only to Epic spellcasters (normal characters end at 9th.)

However, you have to have initiative - not be flat-footed - to take an AoO. If everyone acts simultaneously, everyone will be flat-footed, so there will be no AoOs. (This might cause Haley to Sneak Attack V at the same time V disables the rest of the group, excepting Durkon, giving the fight to Durkon, of course.) Even without simultaneous action, V has a fair chance of winning initiative; only Haley and Belkar have higher Dexterities, and only by a few points (giving Haley a 15% and Belkar a 5% better chance, assuming the Dexterities listed here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=4912) are fairly accurate, although I disagree with an Elf Wizard having a 10 Dexterity. I put him/her at 14. That's still only a +8 attack bonus with ray attacks, which isn't too good when facing a Monk and when most of the rest of the party has bonuses in double digits (Roy having an attack bonus in the 20s.))


And the only time I remember seeing Hold Person cast in the comic was when Durkon did it to Thog (I could be wrong).
You're right! That was Durkon. For some reason I thought it was V. Okay, we go back to assuming V is an Evoker, then, and may not be able to use Enchantment spells.

S/he, however, can cast Transmutation spells (Disintegrate is one), putting Reverse Gravity in his/her arsenal - which doesn't even allow a save. V still wins.

[Fighteer]

Been away from the d20 rules for too long; I forgot about flat-footed. But Quicken Spell does prevent AoOs - see http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#quickenSpell.

[Krellen]

Oh look, wrong twice in one day. (Hope you caught my edit up there. :smallbiggrin: ) I don't use Quicken Spell much; it's of limited use before you have 7th level slots or so, and most of my campaigns have ended in the low double-digits, tops.

[skreweded]

:vaarsuvius:

No question in my mind.

[Wyborn]

Perhaps. The reason s/he didn't use it in any of those earlier situations, however, is because we don't have evidence s/he is 13th level (and thus has 7th level spells) until Strip #397 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0397.html).

Errr....not true. This simply means V didn't use a spell that took advantage of the 13th level until this point. V was level 13 before the party was railroaded by Miko, and I think before the entire bandit thing.

Again, we still have no reason to think that V has such uuber-spells until we see them. Yes, V would win if Reverse Gravity were an option - but we don't know that it is, so we can't readily assume it will be available.

[Krellen]

If V's had access to 7th level spells since Miko captured them, why did it take 200 strips for him/her to use one? (Disintegrate is level 6, meaning V was only at least 11th level as of the dragon.)

[Wyborn]

No, it means V only had to be at 11th level as of the dragon. That's a lower limit, not an upper one. And why waste a seventh level spell when a sixth level one will still kill it before it can kill you, and you can save your REALLY good stuff for a potentially larger threat? That's not strong reasoning for saying V wasn't 13th level before.

Also... The characters have a tendency to announce when they level up, with a little DING sound effect. Just to clue us in, let us know what's up.

But yeah, just because V only used it now doesn't mean it wasn't possible before, just that there was no need for it.

[Not a Paladin]

As much power as :vaarsuvius: has, s/he can't last long without a meat shield due to having a d4 hit die. :haley: would probably win initiative, then hit :vaarsuvius: with a sneak attack in the first round. From the point when :vaarsuvius: is defeated, it becomes a little less predictable. :elan: now stands a fighting chance due to his new prestige class, :haley: hhas a high AC, and :durkon: has healing spells, mot to mention :belkar:'s Rage and Two-Weapon Fighting.

Still, I say that :roy: stands the best chance in an all-out battle, assuming everyone is on their own. That's what Fighters with +5 swords and Weapon Specialization with those swords are really good at, after all.

[Krellen]

But yeah, just because V only used it now doesn't mean it wasn't possible before, just that there was no need for it.
So you're willing to float the possibility that V's been walking around with even greater power than s/he has shown (despite a tendency to flaunt his/her arcane might even as early as the comic's first strips), but you won't allow for the possibility that while levelling up or scouring Azure City's library s/he would have copied down one of the most potent spells available at this point in his/her career?

NotAPaladin: Haley's Sneak Attack doesn't kill V (8d6 Sneak Attack with a Short Bow does, average, 28 points of damage.) But assuming that she does take V out with it, I'd give the fight to Durkon; Haley, Belkar and Elan would occupy Roy for the two rounds it takes Durkon to be a better fighter (Righteous Might and Divine Favour,) and D drops Roy with a 3rd level spell we've already seen him use (Hold Person - Roy's only got a 40% chance to resist, and Durkon's got a couple rounds to try it, with the others fighting too.)

[The_Weirdo]

Depends. Long or medium range and V wins by casting Suggestion on Haley to attack Durkan and Fireball on everyone else.

Short range and V dies first due to EVERYONE KNOWING he can do just that if left unchecked.

[Wyborn]

So you're willing to float the possibility that V's been walking around with even greater power than s/he has shown (despite a tendency to flaunt his/her arcane might even as early as the comic's first strips), but you won't allow for the possibility that while levelling up or scouring Azure City's library s/he would have copied down one of the most potent spells available at this point in his/her career?


Yes. I think Occam's Razor applies here: V is a show-off and a braggart but is still pragmatic, and assuming that a 7th-level spell was saved (when all evidence points to this, we were never shown V leveling up again) takes a far smaller leap in logic (practically none) than does assuming that a particular spell was learned.

Let's not forget that V had a very particular time-frame in which to learn spells, too, as only one could be scribed per day and the time spent in the library was by nature limited. Even assuming V had time to inscribe three spells (the Word of Power, the Hand, and something else) why wouldn't one of them be used for nuking, which is the thing that V likes to do best?

[Silverlocke980]

I'm going to argue Belkar on this one.

My biggest reasoning is that, unlike the other characters, Belkar spends an inordinate amount of time thinking about killing the others. Heaven knows he's probably worked out two or three different scenarios by now, the crazed little halfling.

Likewise, he's smart enough to only attack V after noon, since his spells will be drained- and remember, Belkar went one on one with Miko, and could have won (if he'd slit her throat while she was unconscious, instead of waking her so she would kill him.) The rest of the Order, together with Belkar, couldn't reproduce that feat.

Also, V has such an easy time winning this contest I felt somebody needed a different answer...

(cough cough *disintegrate* cough cough)

[Holy_Knight]

You guys are forgetting something very important: Elan is the only character with a confirmed happy ending. So he wins, resurrects anyone who's dead, and proceeds to reverse whatever magical mind-alterations caused them all to fight in the first place.

[Dervag]

If Roy were fighting V, Roy's dead, period, unless he started off right next to V and won initiative. If he had to move more than 5', his only chance would be a monster crit with Power Attack.Anyone care to guess at V's Concentration modifier?

Silverlocke makes a good point. Belkar is probably the only person in the party who's actually given any serious thought about how to kill the other members. I don't know about you, but I don't spend time thinking about how to murder my friends, and I doubt the Order does, either.

I don't think V can survive being attacked by three or four party members, and he likely will be. She would actually have to get pretty lucky to immobilize most of the party in one round, and he'd more or less have to if she wanted to take out the party.

(My current opinion of V's gender is to use the 'Schrödinger's Cat' system. Since I do not have any information about his gender directly, I treat her as being in a sort of superposition of the two possible states).

[donkyhotay]

Vaarsuvius, he/she would just fireball the entire group.

[Wiione]

V's d4 hit die would probably prevent him/her from winning.

[Orzel]

Vaarsuvius, he/she would just fireball the entire group.


Fireball and most damage spells are used on weaker enemies and those with vulnerablities.

V's Fireball is 106 fire at DC 13+ his/her Int+ Feats (about 18)
That's averages at 25.5 Hp damage if the target fails the save, 12 if the make it and 0 if they make it with evasion.

Therefore he's have to empower or maximize it to deal any damage.
Roy, Durkon, and Belkar have more than 70 HP.
Belkar, Haley, and Elan have +8 base reflex save and high Dex.
Haley and Belkar have evasion.

V's evocations will do nothing. He has a better chance with a will save enchantment based attack which only Durkon and Elan have good saves.
Chances are 2 of the 5 will makes the save of any spell he casts. So like all unbuffed wizards, V has no chance since he'd never be able to cast 4 spells with Belkar around.

[r23r5]

:elan: hes a dashing swordes men no one beats them

[Furin_Mirado]

It depends on who strikes first and which PC each person would target. It's possible that V could get stuck in melee and never get a spell off. It's also possible that V might get left alone just long enough to blast the whole group to pieces. The same goes for Durkon. If he's allowed to cast his cure spells then everyone else will just get worn down and he just finishes them off. Haley could try to hide and then sneak attack whoever is left at the end but that might be difficult unless everyone fails their spot check, heh.

[Aotrs Commander]

I'm inclined to believe Durkon would, on the whole, prevail. Between V and Durkon, I suspect it would be a short fight, based on which one got off the spells first.

In a case of V verses Durkon. V's Disintigrate would be a battle winner - but only if V hits and Durkon fails his save. Given he has Good fort saves and is a Dwarf to boot (+Con), I suspect odds are he'd make the save.

V, being an Elf Wizard has very low hits (made worse by the Con penalty) would likely be struggling to take a hit from, say Flamestrike (and certainly not two). Though of course Durkon's most dangerous options include buffs like Righteous Might, Righteous Wrath of the Faithful and Divine Power.

Against the others, it's Caster > Noncaster, no question.

Against V, who uses a lot of reflex save spells Haley and Belkar's good Ref saves and higher Touch AC might prove more difficult. However, if V failed to win initative and was within charge reach, anyone except Elan really, would be likely to be able to knock him.her out in one hit.

However, it must be noted that the further away the combantants start, the more V (and to a lesser extent Haley) is favoured; Durkon's offensive spells generally don't have the same range, so he'd have to close (perhaps buffing all the while; Energy Immunity would spring to mind as a good one) allowing V to whittle away with Fireballs and other Long-range spells which might just give him/her the edge.



Sadly, I think Elan would come out the worst. Bards are widely considered to be a weak character class. Their strength lies in party support on their own their offensive capabilites are very poor. Even with Dashing Swordsman, I doubt he would be able to go toe to toe with the meleers (Roy and Belkar), though he would most likely have a more even fight with Haley (assuming she didn't out range him). Elan's best option would be landing a few enchantment spells and hoping his foes fail the saves.

[Setra]

Something I'd like to note.

V can run faster than Durkon I believe.

If V doesn't win, Durkon does.

He probably has a higher AC than Roy, decent damage, the ability to heal himself, Lightning Spells, Thor's Might, etc.

[Learnedguy]

Of which he has one level. Everyone else in the group, however, has at least twelve levels of classes that are useful in combat.


That said, my bet is on CODzilla (i.e. Durkon).

V might have a chance if he's able to be pretty much ignored for most of the fight/uses buff spells, which we've never seen him do.

I think I've seen him do it once, right before they faced off with Xycon.

My money is on Durkon or Belkar.

Belkar basicly took down Miko, after all (before he woke her up. I wonder if he got experience for that). But then again, he might not be able to fight Haley.


One last thing, don't underestimate Elan, he soloed Thog and Nale, that's pretty impressive in my book. So, who might be be able to fool with an illusion? Belkar maybe?

[sethdarkwater]

Elan through innocince and dumb luck. ANd with the help[ of the dashing swordsman!

[Setra]

Would anyone consider Elan a threat?

If that is the case he does have a shot, especially if the last people standing are Elan and V, and Elan is in range.

Also, if everyone attacks Belkar; Durkon, Belkar, Roy, and Elan would all be in range of a Disintegrate. Also, if he cast a quickened Fireball first he might drop all four of them, if he's lucky.

[Ave]

I'e never actually played D&D before, but I would imagine V being at a severe disadvantage unless he managed to somehow be ignored and thus able to unleash his "world-shattering enchantments" effectively.
If he could prepare: flying, improved invisibility, stoneskin, disintegrate, etc etc will pwn his team in no time.
If he could not prepare, he is a loser.

[Dreamwalker]

V, definately.

Evard's spiked tentacles of entrusion- ouch! :smalleek:

[Duke of URL]

Even though I'd be rooting for Belkar, in a fair fight, V wins hands down.

For any doubters, let me just say:


:vaarsuvius: "Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion".

[Green Bean]

I'm voting for :durkon:. Every time V get serious with his magic, she basically ends the encounter. Remember Trigak, those ogres, the black dragon? The rest of the Order knows exactly how much damage V can do; they'd all focus on him. Once V's out of the way, :durkon: can just outlast them.

[Setra]

I'm voting for :durkon:. Every time V get serious with his magic, she basically ends the encounter. Remember Trigak, those ogres, the black dragon? The rest of the Order knows exactly how much damage V can do; they'd all focus on him. Once V's out of the way, :durkon: can just outlast them.
What if V casts Suggestion on Roy and Durkon to have them attack Belkar instead?

[Charlybob]

V would win.

She'd hand them a copy of her "will" incase she dies in the slaughter. Then when they all gather round and start reading, they get explosive rune'd to death.

Any survivors on the bring of death get a choice between disintegrate, and ofcourse, Evans spiked tentacles of forced intrusion.

[Green Bean]

What if V casts Suggestion on Roy and Durkon to have them attack Belkar instead?

Then Elan flanks and Haley sneak attacks, knowing the dangers that well-placed tenticles can do to scantily-clad women.

[Haruki-kun]

I think V would win. It doesn't look like s/he would have a very hard time taking out the others. At least Belkar, Roy and Elen would fall quikly to V. Durkon would be a bit harder, but I think he'd fall eventually.

The paradox: I think V can kill anyone on the Team except Haley, cuz he has evation. Furthermore, i think Haley can't take on anyone on the team except for V, cuz s/he doesn't stand a chance if his/her spells don't hit.

Then again....... EVAN'S SPIKED TENTACES OF FORCED INTRUSION!!!!!!!!!!

[Heliomance]

Clearly, Thog would win.

[Shattersnap]

In this situation, the rules of comedic probability would decide the victor. V is, according to the poll, the one most people expect to win. Therefore s/he would never win because everybody would expect it and it would not be entertaining or funny. Belkar could not win, because he would kill everybody and then there would be no comic. Roy also could not win because he is the leader and as such would also be expected to kick ass. Durkon would not win because, well, let's just face it. Durkon is the straight man almost all of the time and would have nothing interesting to say in that situation. Due to the laws of comedic probability, either Elan or Hayley would have to win because fewer expect it and they could both come up with some pretty interesting victory remarks. Personally, my money is on Elan.

[Setra]

Then Elan flanks and Haley sneak attacks, knowing the dangers that well-placed tenticles can do to scantily-clad women.
Ah right, well then

Presuming :vaarsuvius: and :belkar: are gone, :elan: and :haley: could possibly get lucky and use the same strategy against :roy:, since :elan: will probably follow :haley:s orders.

With only :durkon: left, he'd be too busy healing himself, and the pair could probably take him down once he stopped healing.

So it would be :elan: and :haley:, we all know :elan: would let :haley: win.

[David94]

Vaarsuvius. All that raw spell power? Definitely. Lightning, Magic Missile, at least 2 or 3 Fireballs, ESToFI (you should be able to figure out what that is on your own), Disintegrate, add an invisibility on top of that, Vaarsuvius wins. Belkar's probably going to be the one taken out first (assuming he DOESN'T have the Mark of Justice) just in case he manages to sneak up on someone. Haley, if on offense, would deal some decent sneak attack damage then die, if on defense, would be hiding for a while until someone finds her. Elan would be okay for a 1-on-1 for a while, but he can't handle two or more at once with only 1 level of Dashing Swordsman. That leaves V, Durkon, and Roy. Roy probably won't be able to get close enough to the spellcasters before he gets hit with enough spells to put him out. Now it's just V and Durkon. Most of Durkon's spells are healing spells (and no, when using Thor's Lightning, he's not allowed to pick where the lightning strikes) , while V's are mostly offense, therefore, all Durkon could do is keep healing himself, which wouldn't last him long.

[Fighteer]

So it would be :elan: and :haley:, we all know :elan: would let :haley: win.
Can you reasonably think of a situation, other than the blatant (real or framed) betrayal of one by the other, in which :elan: and :haley: would ever fight to the death?

[chiefwaha]

In a series of one on one duels where each side knows who they're fighting and can prepare... Durkon wins every time.

[Setra]

Can you reasonably think of a situation, other than the blatant (real or framed) betrayal of one by the other, in which :elan: and :haley: would ever fight to the death?

Exactly.

:elan: would forfeit, and let :haley: win.


In a series of one on one duels where each side knows who they're fighting and can prepare... Durkon wins every time.

I dunno, if he fails a single save against disintegration he'd almost certainly die. Plus V is faster than Durkon.

[David94]

That leaves just V and Durkon. Most of Durkon's spells are healing spells (and no, when using Thor's Lightning, he's not allowed to pick where the lightning strikes) , while V's are mostly offense, therefore, all Durkon could do is keep healing himself, which wouldn't last him long.
I take this opportunity to direct your attention to part of my post...

[Fighteer]

Exactly.

:elan: would forfeit, and let :haley: win.
But why would she ever fight him in the first place? It's just as likely that they'd team up to defeat the rest of the party and then cuddle up together with :haley: 's gold and :elan: 's puppet. :-)

[slayerx]

That leaves just V and Durkon. Most of Durkon's spells are healing spells (and no, when using Thor's Lightning, he's not allowed to pick where the lightning strikes) , while V's are mostly offense, therefore, all Durkon could do is keep healing himself, which wouldn't last him long.
I wouldn't be so sure about that... i mean, for one thing if Durkon gets into melee combat with V, then some of V's spells may get disrupted, and i think their might be some spells he can hit V with that would also cause a chance for disrupted spells; such as Hold Person, causing fear, or even summoning monsters to rush V... add that to Durkon Healing most of the damage he recieves from the spells that don't fizzle up, and Durkon's got a pretty good chance going...

Not to mention we also need to question what Domains Durkon has... if he has Magic or Protection domains, that would allow him to use Anti-magic field

grant it, one thing we can wonder is how many spells each of them would use if it were a battle royal for Oots... If Durkon were to use sactuary to protect himself from melee attacks... damage from V's spells ifs the only thing we need to heal, and V will be using spells on everyone, not just Durkon... so it adds to chance that Durkon may survive most of the battle with using a minmum on spells (he may even hits V with a few spells hoping he would loose to the others), while V on the other hand already used a very generous portion of his own... Durkon's still got some healing and can rely on melee for his damage, where as V is dead the moment he runs out of spells

[Setra]

But why would she ever fight him in the first place? It's just as likely that they'd team up to defeat the rest of the party and then cuddle up together with :haley: 's gold and :elan: 's puppet. :-)
That's what I said, but if it is a battle royale and they are the only two left, one would have to forfeit and I think it'd be Elan.

[Twilight Jack]

Love :vaarsuvius: though I do, s/he cannot win a battle royale. From what we've seen, his/her most powerful offensive spell is Disintegrate (and/or Power Word, Blind - but that's dependent on current HP and therefore impractical in the first round). So, she Disintegrates someone in the first round and the rest of the OotS don't let her have a second chance at it. Assuming 13th level, :vaarsuvius: has @34hp at full health (I'm giving her/him the benefit of the doubt that s/he doesn't have a Con penalty, but as an elven wizard, a Con bonus is unlikely). Having rolled well for hp may boost that number, but it would still max out at 52 if s/he'd rolled a 4 every time. Sorry, but one solid round of offense from the rest of the crew tiles :vaarsuvius: in a hurry. :roy: alone averages 18-20 points of damage (at least) per hit before Power Attacking the low AC wizard. Toss in a flanking Sneak Attack from :haley: (who's smart enough to know that V presents the biggest threat), and some stabbity love from :belkar:, and :vaarsuvius: doesn't have a prayer.

My vote's for :durkon:; he's got the melee chops to duke it out, the hp (from a high Con) to hang, the Saves (Fort and Will, with high Con and Wis to pump them) to avoid most of the instant takedowns that could be tossed his way, and the kind of spell casting to make the most of all of them. Furthermore, he's relatively unassuming in most battles, doing his job quietly and healing up afterwards. Except for :roy:, no one is likely to fear him properly until it's too late.

:roy: would actually have a chance, except that after :vaarsuvius: he's the most direct threat to most of the others, especially once he gets into melee range. He's the next unlucky recipient of OotS dogpile.

:haley: is dangerous, but really only when working in concert with others (re: flanking). Once the initial dog-piles are done, she's got :belkar:/:durkon: with whom to contend, and unless :elan: isn't tied up with the other one, I don't see either of those fights going well for her.

:belkar: is a tempting choice for the ultimate winner, but he's also the most likely target of :vaarsuvius:'s initial Disintegrate. I'll assume he makes his Fort save, but that still cuts into his hp significantly. Furthermore, although capable of employing strategy when it suits him (his fight with Miko), he also just loves to mix it up a bit too much. My guess is that he tries to harvest :elan:'s XP and kidneys, and gets an unexpected taste of Dashing Swordsman. Coupled with the damage he's already taken at this point from both :vaarsuvius: and operation: dogpile the meat shield, I think :elan: might be able to take this one. Whoever wins, it leaves the other easy pickings for :durkon:, once he's done subduing :haley: (even within the hypothetical, I can't see him killing her).

[Jaysyn]

If Vaarsuvius gets off a spell, then he/she wins. End of story...

Unless Durkon has cast Spell Resistance (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/spellResistance.htm). V may have a hard time beating a 25 SR.

[Haruki-kun]

I don't think Haley's quite powerless in this kind of fight...... I mean we've actually witnessed her evassion. Being able to dodge many attacks, it would be likely that she would stay alive longer than most. At least more than Roy and Elan.

[Copacetic]

V. FTW. all V has to do is cast fly and is therefore invrable to Roy's sword Belkar's daggers and Durkon's hammer. Then a disintagrate to the only one who is a threat to s/he and that is Hailey. Then mop up everone else with disintigrate and evan's spiked tentacles. end f story. Durkon a close second

[slayerx]

V. FTW. all V has to do is cast fly and is therefore invrable to Roy's sword Belkar's daggers and Durkon's hammer.
Durkon Casts Dispell magic, and V comes crashing to the ground to be attacked by the first person that comes into melee range... casting magic i believe constitues an attack of oppurtunity (unless my of memory DnD is shotty, which is not surprising), melee attacks cause a chance of disrupting spells, and thus V has a hard time ever getting back up in the air

[jng2058]

Gotta be :roy:.

Its a simple mathematical equation:

:miko: > :vaarsuvius: :haley: :elan: :belkar: :durkon: :roy: (w/club)

:roy: (w/sword) > :miko:

Therefore...

:roy: (w/sword) > :vaarsuvius: :haley: :elan: :belkar: :durkon:

Seems clear to me. :smallamused:

[SMEE]

Rock falls, :vaarsuvius: wins.

[Lord Zentei]

Gotta be :roy:.

Its a simple mathematical equation:

:miko: > :vaarsuvius: :haley: :elan: :belkar: :durkon: :roy: (w/club)

:roy: (w/sword) > :miko:

Therefore...

:roy: (w/sword) > :vaarsuvius: :haley: :elan: :belkar: :durkon:

Seems clear to me. :smallamused:

A plausible position, though it is not neccesarily a given, since Miko-the-Fallen still managed to stun Roy-with-Sword, but then tried to escape instead of power attack (she is not entirely without feats, after all).

Moreover, she had just lost her powers. Miko-the-Fallen < Miko-the-Paladin, after all, and she was pretty badly shaken, hence he had a huge circumstantial advantage. Of course, Belkar also managed to stun Miko-the-Paladin, and I doubt anyone claims he is more powerful than she is so there you go...

[Fighteer]

Moreover, she had just lost her powers. Miko-the-Fallen < Miko-the-Paladin, after all, and she was pretty badly shaken, hence he had a huge circumstantial advantage. Of course, Belkar also managed to stun Miko-the-Paladin, and I doubt anyone claims he is more powerful than she is so there you go...
There's no standard rule for stunning from normal attacks, even if you score a critical hit, and Belkar hasn't exhibited any special feats with improvised weapons. I suspect the panel you mentioned was merely for laughs, since it would have been blatantly unfair for him to have killed Miko under those circumstances. One rule-breaking dramatic effect deserves another. :smallamused:

[Wyborn]

Considering that he's been carrying around that lead sheet for so long, I don't know that it can count as an improvised weapon. It's obvious he intended to belt somebody with it.

[Querzis]

It just sorta came up...... if the Members of the OOTS were to fight each other, who would win?

I know it's very unlikely, but............... since it probably won't happen, the question is still there. So, whaddyathink?

Obvioulsy not Haley or Elan...why do Elan as so much vote anyway? This is not about who you would want to win! Sorry but it cant be V, its a wizard with low constition and in that situation he woudnt have anyone to take the hit instead of him. Miko took V down in one round, Roy, Durkon, Haley and Belkar could do the same thing. Belkar could was easely grappled by an horse...Roy, durkon and maybe even Elan could do the same thing. Beside he is a ranger that cant cast any spell and dont have an animal companion.

It would be Roy or Durkon. I voted Roy because I dont think he has enough vote but both of them could win.

[Justinian]

Why is no one betting on Haley? A good sneak attack could put V down in one hit. And of course, if she wins initiative, that's the possibility of multiple sneak attacks versus flatfooted opponents... or if she were able to use the snipe feature of the Hide skill, that would work well for her as well.

The OP really did need to clarify if this was deathmatch (1v1) or battle royale (6 man survivor), though.

Things like this are a reminder why I always get Improved Feint on my Rogues, though. Sometimes you can't rely on a melee flanking buddy OR ranged weapons.

[slayerx]

Gotta be :roy:.

Its a simple mathematical equation:

:miko: > :vaarsuvius: :haley: :elan: :belkar: :durkon: :roy: (w/club)

:roy: (w/sword) > :miko:

Therefore...

:roy: (w/sword) > :vaarsuvius: :haley: :elan: :belkar: :durkon:

Seems clear to me. :smallamused:
Actually Durkon refused to fight against Miko
So it's :miko: > :vaarsuvius: :haley: :elan: :belkar: :roy: (w/club)
And considering how taking Durkon out leave the OoTS without any form of healing and protection, and how Miko had all of her paladin abilties (including healing and protection)... loosing Durkon can be seen as a serious handicap for them

and also
:roy: (w/sword) > :miko: (without Paladin powers and in a state of confusion)

[Lord Zentei]

There's no standard rule for stunning from normal attacks, even if you score a critical hit, and Belkar hasn't exhibited any special feats with improvised weapons. I suspect the panel you mentioned was merely for laughs, since it would have been blatantly unfair for him to have killed Miko under those circumstances. One rule-breaking dramatic effect deserves another. :smallamused:

Yeah, I also got the impression that it was for laughs. :smallwink:

Unless it is an enchanted item: "Lead Sheet of Stunning and Alignment Concealing". :smalleek:



For the reference on stunning:

Linka (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/conditionSummary.htm#stunned) on Stunning in general.

Linka (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/feats.htm#stunningFist) on Stunning Fist.

[kialos]

We also have to take into account the fact that Roy HAS GREAT CLEAVE. If he takes out V first, he could potentionally go down the line of weak melee characters and wipe all of them out. The most trouble he'd have is with the cleric. But even then. Hes a FIGHTER, thats the staple of class... they kill things.

:smallsmile:

[Lord Zentei]

We also have to take into account the fact that Roy HAS GREAT CLEAVE. If he takes out V first, he could potentionally go down the line of weak melee characters and wipe all of them out. The most trouble he'd have is with the cleric. But even then. Hes a FIGHTER, thats the staple of class... they kill things.

:smallsmile:

Well, the general concensus seems to be that Vaarsuvius needs to be taken down first for someone else to win. That has got to suggest something, eh? :smallcool:

[Twilight Jack]

Well, the general concensus seems to be that Vaarsuvius needs to be taken down first for someone else to win. That has got to suggest something, eh? :smallcool:

An excellent point, but it doesn't negate the fact that Vaarsuvius will be taken down first (or second, if s/he obliterates someone with that initial barrage).

That said, on a level playing field, Vaarsuvius could likely dust any other member in a one-on-one fight held with both combatants facing each other at a distance of more than 30 feet. Any less than that, and Haley still wins initiative and plunks two or three Sneak Attack! arrows into Vaarsuvius for the win.

Then again, if any party member wins initiative within charging range, Vaarsuvius is going to have to really hope for some good Concentration checks.

[kialos]

Well of course V kicks ass, (S)he has has spells that can drain your Strength and can fly/teleport, lets not forget Evans Spiked Tenticles of Forced Intrusion (Shudders) Roy would do better in Intiniative rolls. He'd be the easest to kill if Roy went first. V's not likely to have great AC

[slayerx]

We also have to take into account the fact that Roy HAS GREAT CLEAVE. If he takes out V first, he could potentionally go down the line of weak melee characters and wipe all of them out. The most trouble he'd have is with the cleric. But even then. Hes a FIGHTER, thats the staple of class... they kill things.

:smallsmile:
Well clerics have healing and protection to reduce the damage delt to them and make them last longer... not to mention Durkon's got "Thor's Might" with makes him a rather powerful oxymoron in melee combat, both for offence and defence...

Also, I think Elan might give roy some trouble also... with that new prestige class of his, Elan's gonna be quite the challange in melee combat

[Tinkerbell]

Wouldn't someone, presumably :haley: have the sense to run away? All the others except possibly :durkon:, I could see having the pride into being baited to fight each other, but I'm pretty sure Hayley would see it was a hiding to nothing and run.

Which would mean either :vaarsuvius: or :durkon: would win, but be left with deeply critical wounds wheras :haley: would loose but a still be on full hitpoints and able to fight again tomorrow.

Rogue logic.

[kialos]

Of course... this argument is kinda broken... now if a 2lvl monk / 3lvl Sorcerer /9th Lvl Enlightened Fist were in there, He'd wipe the flood with all of them. a monk that can deliver scorching ray as a touch attack (While punching) which comes out to be about 100 damage more or less AND has Spell Resistance of 20 Heheh... a good selection of useful Spells Evards Menicing Tenicles (w/ Ten foot reach), Fist of Stone, Haste, fly. I mean holy crap...

[Sewer_Bandito]

Pfft, Belkar would just hide untill the fight was over, and one person was around near , then knife them in the back and BAM! He wins.

[Spider_Jerusalem]

Well, I'd bet on Durkon. Or maybe on Belkar, depending only on the field. Durkon seems the best choice thinking only about the rules, but Belkar has proved himself a pretty good tactician. Good enough for his player to risk playing with a halfling ranger without fear :P

[Dark Dork]

V easily

We haven't seen V fight to his/her full potential for a while and s/he could use 6th level spells a long time ago so for all we know s/he could be up to using 7th level and that means quickened fly which rules out Roy, Elan and Belkar's attacks and power word, blind could stop Hayley from shooting at him/her and the only one left is Durkon who cannot use his melee skill and lacks decent damaging spells with a range greater than touch. Also, being stranded on the ground and with low move speed, he's probably too busy being disrupted by Roy and co.

[Teh_Jakester]

:haley: and :belkar: would use sneak attacks, and kill :roy: first, because he's the biggest, and :belkar: hates :roy: . :vaarsuvius: would kill :elan: , because he's weak. (Even with level one Dashing Swordsman.) :durkon: would kill :vaarsuvius: with Thor's power. :haley: and :belkar: would then be done with :roy: , and attack :durkon: . Then it would be :belkar: v.s. :haley: . :haley: would be sneak attacking :belkar: while he's being all sadistic. :haley: wins.

If it were between all the characters :roach: would win. Don't ask.

[Lord Zentei]

An excellent point, but it doesn't negate the fact that Vaarsuvius will be taken down first (or second, if s/he obliterates someone with that initial barrage).

That said, on a level playing field, Vaarsuvius could likely dust any other member in a one-on-one fight held with both combatants facing each other at a distance of more than 30 feet. Any less than that, and Haley still wins initiative and plunks two or three Sneak Attack! arrows into Vaarsuvius for the win.

Then again, if any party member wins initiative within charging range, Vaarsuvius is going to have to really hope for some good Concentration checks.

Yeah. Again, it really would be nice to know more about the nature of the conflict. Is it a 6-way deathmatch or a series of one on one duels across an arena? The circumstances of the battle will matter a lot.

[roadkiller]

Durkon. Why? "You have selected Colon Cancer." Even if he didn't win immediately, he'd just have to stay away and wait for the cancer to kill them.

I wonder what he'd yell as he cast that?

Well, okay, that and the fact that he's a cleric. Healer, fighter and secondary nuker all wrapped into one.

[Spiryt]

Maybe I'm a bit tedious, but how the hell Elan has so many voices?
He's not melee character, he's not generally interested in fight beacuse of his character. Dashing swordmen is pretty funny and give him nice bonuses, but he won't have chance with Belkar or Roy...
Haley has very few voices, although sheis appears to be quite good at sneak attacking :smallbiggrin:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0200.html

[Tmabbbb]

I'd say Durkon, because he can heal himself, cast powerful magic, and is very proficient in melee. Unless V can stall him for enough time, Durkon can probably take everyone out. After Durkon and V, however, I think Elan has the next highest chance to win. He will have had to stall the two magic-users, but if he could, he would probably manage to take down Roy and Belkar, and, if he wanted to, Haley.

[Skydiving_Ninja]

Sadly, I'd have to go with Vaarsuvius, then Durkon, then Roy, then Belkar.

[Setra]

I'd say Durkon, because he can heal himself, cast powerful magic, and is very proficient in melee. Unless V can stall him for enough time, Durkon can probably take everyone out. After Durkon and V, however, I think Elan has the next highest chance to win. He will have had to stall the two magic-users, but if he could, he would probably manage to take down Roy and Belkar, and, if he wanted to, Haley.

Except for the fact V could take out Durkon in one hit if Durkon fails a save.

Also, how could Elan hope to defeat Roy?

Elan's AC, HD, and weapon are all below Roy's.

[Haruki-kun]

I wonder........ is Elan a decent fighter because of Dashing Swordsman?
Because he didn't actually beat Nale, he just held him at Bay unti V showed up, and Nale didn't even have his weapon of choice with him. As Elan said, he brought a dagger to a swordfight.

And it WAS Vaarsuvius who defeated Nale....... though he was already weak by that time.....

[jng2058]

Actually Durkon refused to fight against Miko
So it's :miko: > :vaarsuvius: :haley: :elan: :belkar: :roy: (w/club)
And considering how taking Durkon out leave the OoTS without any form of healing and protection, and how Miko had all of her paladin abilties (including healing and protection)... loosing Durkon can be seen as a serious handicap for them

and also
:roy: (w/sword) > :miko: (without Paladin powers and in a state of confusion)

Ah, but as we see here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=291639#post291639) in the SECOND battle between the Order and Miko, Durkon WAS healing his team...the only thing he wasn't doing was take offensive action. Since you cite the healing and protection as his main duties, he was fulfilling that role.

Now, I will grant you that post-Fall Miko was fighting without her paladin powers, Windstriker, or her Wakizashi....but on the other side of the coin, we have subtracted Roy (w/club) from the Order's side of the equation.

Also the equation posits an all on one battle, ie Roy vs. the whole rest of the Order ganging up on him. As has been pointed out earlier in the thread, the logical target to get ganged up on first isn't Roy...it's V. Once V's down, maybe the rest of the team jumps Roy en masse, but its as likely to break down into general mayhem, which favors Roy even more.

So I'm sticking with :roy:

:smalltongue:

[Krytha]

I'm going to say Roy or Durkon (but selected Roy because I like him better). Firstly, V isn't going to last long at all. Either he will be rushed by every character not wanting to get fireballed or he will be rushed by every character not wanting to get disintegrated. Elan couldn't kill anyone in the party if his life depended on it. Haley is strictly range only and would get in serious trouble if someone closed the range. Roy and Durkon would probably target Belkar over the others because he is more dangerous and evil (and they wouldn't be sorry to see him gone).

Which leaves it down to whether Roy can do enough damage to Durkon before he runs out of hitpoints (of which he will have lost a goodly chunk by now).

[Haruki-kun]

Either V PWN's the rest of the party with his/her Magic.......or they gang up on him/her precisely so that won't happen. It might be all about Metagaming....

[Setra]

I wonder........ is Elan a decent fighter because of Dashing Swordsman?
Because he didn't actually beat Nale, he just held him at Bay unti V showed up, and Nale didn't even have his weapon of choice with him. As Elan said, he brought a dagger to a swordfight.

And it WAS Vaarsuvius who defeated Nale....... though he was already weak by that time.....

He can deal a bit of damage, but his AC and HP suffer.

In the end he is no match for Roy, Durkon, and I don't think he could take Belkar either.


I see no Thog option... so i guess V would win.
Maybe Durkon

No offense but every time I see your screen name I can't help but thinking "I must kill him before he turns evil and begins killing gods"

[Raistlin1040]

I see no Thog option... so i guess V would win.

[Krytha]

I've changed my answer to Roy entirely. Assuming that the fight turns into a brawl, and not people thinking of the best way to ensure their survival, Roy is the only one with the tactical knowledge and combat smarts to put that knowledge to good use. Everyone else thinks he's the big dumb meatshield (emphasis on meatshield) and not a killing machine as the last few comics have shown him to be.

Haley thinks she's so very clever but would be unable to overcome all the melee.. and take out Elan? Elan would be less than a credible threat, even with the Dashing Swordsman, to the rest of the party.

V and Belkar's true hate will prevail, so no matter what is best for their survival (and therefore victory), they will attack each other first. If Belkar rages (which he will), he might be able to take V's first spell and fight or maybe disrupt it and gain the upper hand. Regardless of how that fight turns out, whoever wins will be very low on hp.

I don't know how Durkon will handle the chaos, but I think Roy will take the least damage over time and come out swinging when the field has thinned. At that point, he should be able to cruise to victory.

[Setra]

I've changed my answer to Roy entirely. Assuming that the fight turns into a brawl, and not people thinking of the best way to ensure their survival, Roy is the only one with the tactical knowledge and combat smarts to put that knowledge to good use. Everyone else thinks he's the big dumb meatshield (emphasis on meatshield) and not a killing machine as the last few comics have shown him to be.

Haley thinks she's so very clever but would be unable to overcome all the melee.. and take out Elan? Elan would be less than a credible threat, even with the Dashing Swordsman, to the rest of the party.

V and Belkar's true hate will prevail, so no matter what is best for their survival (and therefore victory), they will attack each other first. If Belkar rages (which he will), he might be able to take V's first spell and fight or maybe disrupt it and gain the upper hand. Regardless of how that fight turns out, whoever wins will be very low on hp.

I don't know how Durkon will handle the chaos, but I think Roy will take the least damage over time and come out swinging when the field has thinned. At that point, he should be able to cruise to victory.

I don't know, V is quite intelligent as well, and would probably realize the notion of self-survival quite well.

Also, I think Durkon may have an AC equal or greater than Roy's, and might take less damage over time.

Also as a Dwarf, he probably has a pretty good con, and might even have HP around Roy's as well, though of course not the damage capability.

[Krytha]

Even so, V would have to deal with a small ball of halfling rage IMMEDIATELY, not sit back and unload the pain effortlessly. V may recognize the true path to survival, but all Belkar would care about is taking V down.

[kialos]

We haven't seen all the feats Roy has taken, All he would have to do to get an insane advantage is Improved Trip and Improved Crit. (Im asuming Roy is about 13th level or so) Roys a fighter after all, so all he should do is Power attack V, If he kills him His great cleave should take him to one of the other characters (Maybe Haley or Elan) He'd have the most trouble with Durkon, but improved trip would help if he doesn't use Thor's might. I'd be a crap shoot if he kills V first, but keep in mind. Most of the Characters are going to attack V because he can cast Feeblemind and Disentgrate. It wouldn't make since for ANY of the characters to ingnore V.

Roy'd be the best bet because his class Gives him the best advantage in Melee, Which is the point of a fighter in the first place.

[Setra]

Even so, V would have to deal with a small ball of halfling rage IMMEDIATELY, not sit back and unload the pain effortlessly. V may recognize the true path to survival, but all Belkar would care about is taking V down.

What if V cast Invisiblity?

[kialos]

What if V cast Invisiblity?

Roy's most likely to Win Initiative, and I'm sure he'd go after V first....

[kire]

V. Just for the sheer shock value of using Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion against PCs.

Definitely Durkon as the next most likely winner, though.

Then Roy.

Yeah, Evan's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion means V wins no problem if s/he actually gets a round of combat to cast and makes the concentration check.

[Setra]

Roy's most likely to Win Initiative, and I'm sure he'd go after V first....

It all depends on range, what if V is over 40 feet away from everybody? Then only Haley could hit him. Also, even with Sneak attack, I think she'd have trouble taking V down in one hit.

Though it's entirely possible, if she failed V could vanish until later.

[Krytha]

Belkar could track him by scent.

[Setra]

Belkar could track him by scent.

Ah yes I had forgotten that trait.

Still, V could probably one hit Belkar with disintegrate.

And still have one left for after becoming visible. I think.

[Wyborn]

It all depends on range, what if V is over 40 feet away from everybody? Then only Haley could hit him. Also, even with Sneak attack, I think she'd have trouble taking V down in one hit.

Though it's entirely possible, if she failed V could vanish until later.

Didn't somebody once figure Haley's sneak attack as doing an average of like 40? Or more?

[Setra]

Well sneak attack alone is 7d6 I believe.

[roll0]

[StreetUrchin]

I went Vaarsuvius as first choice for shear damage, but I'll give it to Durkon a close second (tough to beat when your deity is willing to bend the rules (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0353.html)on spells). Of course this is assuming Belkar doesn't coup de grace when they're sleeping...

[Krytha]

Ah yes I had forgotten that trait.

Still, V could probably one hit Belkar with disintegrate.

And still have one left for after becoming visible. I think.

Belkar probably wouldnt allow him to get that off. Thrown dagger might fizzle the spell or do worse.

[Spiryt]

Ah yes I had forgotten that trait.

Still, V could probably one hit Belkar with disintegrate.


? Belkar must have quite good touch AC ( size+ Dex). And rather good fortitude ( especialy in rage). I will rather use some Bigby's stuff.
:smallbiggrin:

:belkar: Goddamn size modifiers to grapple checks!

[Grizzt]

I have two words for you, my friends:
Reverse Gravity or Hold Person (Durkon the others are too occupied with each other)

[The Dirge]

Belkar would just stab everyone one in the back before they realized that a fight had even started.

[Grod_The_Giant]

Durkon. CODzilla FTW!!

[Bilgore]

In this situation, the rules of comedic probability would decide the victor.

There are three reasons why :elan: must win.
The law of comedic probability, He clearly has the Enhanced Extended Superior Dumb Luck feat--it doesn't matter whether most of you don't recognize it as legitimate, it's obviously a house rule. (Look at when he was kidnapped, for example.) The combination of the above factors will result in the direct divine intervention of Banjo.

How events will unfold:

:belkar: backstabs the easiest target, :elan:.
:vaarsuvius: nukes :belkar:, only to be double-teamed by :roy: and :durkon:, who tackle the largest threat.
:haley: sneak attacks :durkon: so he can't heal :roy:.
:roy: charges :haley: in retaliation.
:elan: stands up again, revealing that :belkar: had actually only stabbed Banjo. He discards his lute to hold the wounded puppet and lament, when...
:roy: charges :elan:, only to trip over :elan:'s discarded lute and hit his head on :durkon:'s hammer.


So Elan wins, no contest.

[Teh_Jakester]

There are three reasons why :elan: must win.
The law of comedic probability, He clearly has the Enhanced Extended Superior Dumb Luck feat--it doesn't matter whether most of you don't recognize it as legitimate, it's obviously a house rule. (Look at when he was kidnapped, for example.) The combination of the above factors will result in the direct divine intervention of Banjo.

How events will unfold:

:belkar: backstabs the easiest target, :elan:.
:vaarsuvius: nukes :belkar:, only to be double-teamed by :roy: and :durkon:, who tackle the largest threat.
:haley: sneak attacks :durkon: so he can't heal :roy:.
:roy: charges :haley: in retaliation.
:elan: stands up again, revealing that :belkar: had actually only stabbed Banjo. He discards his lute to hold the wounded puppet and lament, when...
:roy: charges :elan:, only to trip over :elan:'s discarded lute and hit his head on :durkon:'s hammer.


So Elan wins, no contest.

There's a problem with that. :roy: has been supressing the urge to beat :elan: up for a long time, as he says when he fights :nale: .
Thus, :roy: would go after :elan: , and :haley: would help, because of the Love Factor. :vaarsuvius: would go after :belkar: , because of the whole hating thing. :durkon: would help :roy: , but Comedic Probability says :elan: would win. Statistic Probability says :haley: would win.

[DarkEternal]

I voted for Durkon personally. I really do not see a single weakness in him. He has good combat skills, great buffs, can heal himself, and we still don't know what offensive spells he has besides Thor's lighting and Hold Person(perhaps Harm since he does have Heal), and has good saves(especially fortitude due to being a dwarf and all so Disentigrate is most likely to fail against him). The only bad part is his speed again due to being a dwarf, but I seriously doubt that one setback outsets all the others.

Second best probably Varsarvius, altough I would give Belkar the benefit of the doubt since he is a survivalist(on one on one battles that is, in battle royale he would get his arse kicked), and knows how to exploit weaknesses of characters when it is needed(like in fight with Miko).

[Sethis]

I found V's other 7th level spell

http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0306.html (#306)

So, V was 13th as of 306.

Now, lets take a quick look at this spell.



Power Word Blind
Enchantment (Compulsion) [Mind-Affecting]
Level: Sor/Wiz 7, War 7
Components: V
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Close (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels)
Target: One creature with 200 hp or less
Duration: See text
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes

Hit Points Duration
50 or less Permanent
51-100 1d4+1 minutes
101-200 1d4+1 rounds

You utter a single word of power that causes one creature of your choice to become blinded, whether the creature can hear the word or not. The duration of the spell depends on the target’s current hit point total. Any creature that currently has 201 or more hit points is unaffected by power word blind.

So, V can, on his turn, utter one word (no AoO, no Somatic components) And instantly blind any member of the party, for long enough. No Save. The only one who could possible counteract this is Durkon, and he doesn't ever seem to have the right spells prepared (See: Elan's Bleeding Spleen, Var's Lizard Conundrum, Roy's Posion Debacle)

It's effectively invisibility, with the added effect that it makes them next to useless altogether. Also, V has said that he doesn't have the 3.0 Fly, not that he doesn't have the 3.5 version (Minutes in duration is a LOT of time in combat.) So, if he does have fly, that's the game. All he has to do is counter Durkon's maybe 1 Dispel Magic and cast Protection from Arrows for Haley (the party's only ranged attacker. Before anyone mention's Belkar's Jumping ring, a normal move action with Fly is 90ft. Make that vertical. No WAY someone with a -2 racial STR and a base 20ft speed is getting that high on a jump.

[Teh_Jakester]

I always thought V was a girl.

[Messenger]

Belkar. He would fight dirty.
Heh. He wouldn't even fight. He'd probably slit everyone else's throats quietly and quickly in their sleep. :smallamused:

V may have arcane might, but B will win if he remains murderously one step ahead of everyone...

... If... :smallbiggrin:

[Haruki-kun]

V has said that he doesn't have the 3.0 Fly, not that he doesn't have the 3.5 version (Minutes in duration is a LOT of time in combat.) So, if he does have fly, that's the game.

Oh, good point there....

[slayerx]

Durkon... we still don't know what offensive spells he has besides Thor's lighting and Hold Person
He would have all the cleric spells... If i recall correctly, unlike wizards who must find all of their spells and wirte them into their spell books, Clerics by default have all of the cleric spells... Durkon just has to pray for the ones he wants to do that day...


Also, V has said that he doesn't have the 3.0 Fly, not that he doesn't have the 3.5 version (Minutes in duration is a LOT of time in combat.) So, if he does have fly, that's the game. All he has to do is counter Durkon's maybe 1 Dispel Magic
Actually, after that Whole thing with ZZ's fly, Haley asked V why he didn't get a fly spell when they were last in town, and she was speaking of fly in general, not specifically the 3.0 fly... V said he couldn't get one since the store was selling spells in booster packs =P
ofcourse that was a long time ago, and it's possible he could have bought the spell by now

Also, how do you counter Dispell Magic... last i recall, dispell magic had no saving throw or spell restiance, making it rather absolute in cancellign out magic... And once V gets hit with dispell, he will come crashing to the ground taking damage and loosing a turn to get back up, and Belkar will more then likely rush him (consider Belkar hates V and Rpy the most, he'd Probably attack V first of all people)... There is some possibility that V might be able to Feather fall his way out of it, but considering how useless he thinks the spell is, it becomes questionable if he would memorize it as such

[kialos]

He would have all the cleric spells... If i recall correctly, unlike wizards who must find all of their spells and wirte them into their spell books, Clerics by default have all of the cleric spells... Durkon just has to pray for the ones he wants to do that day...


Actually, after that Whole thing with ZZ's fly, Haley asked V why he didn't get a fly spell when they were last in town, and she was speaking of fly in general, not specifically the 3.0 fly... V said he couldn't get one since the store was selling spells in booster packs =P
ofcourse that was a long time ago, and it's possible he could have bought the spell by now

Also, how do you counter Dispell Magic... last i recall, dispell magic had no saving throw or spell restiance, making it rather absolute in cancellign out magic... And once V gets hit with dispell, he will come crashing to the ground taking damage and loosing a turn to get back up, and Belkar will more then likely rush him (consider Belkar hates V and Rpy the most, he'd Probably attack V first of all people)... There is some possibility that V might be able to Feather fall his way out of it, but considering how useless he thinks the spell is, it becomes questionable if he would memorize it as such

Dispell magic has to have a roll aganist the spells level and the casters level of the thing being dispelled. Add spell Resistence in there and you have a hard time doing anything with it... but Slashing dispell is cooler

[kialos]

Spell resistence does apply if your dispelling a Buff on another character. But you have to Ready an action to counterspell... you can't counterspell a spell used by a magic item or quazi-magical ability...

[Tharj TreeSmiter]

I don't think V would win because he/she would have no melee characters to protect her/him and durkon has some natural spell resistance and Roy is high enough level that only strong spells would hurt him while Haley could disrupt her spell from a distance with arrow shots.