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Teapot Salty
2014-03-09, 11:29 AM
Hey guys. In a dual to the death, no holds bared, starting 50 ft away from each other, both want the other dead. Both mechanically and realistically, who would win? Personally I think that mechanically, Roy would win, superior weapons, armor and stats. Realistically, I think Belkar would put two pieces of steel where Roy's brain used to be, he's faster, more agile, more vicious. (You know, the things that generally don't go into stats) And as always, go nuts.

Dienekes
2014-03-09, 11:39 AM
Realistically, the guy in armor would probably win. Armor is awesome, it stops things from killing you. Roy also has reach advantage, which is going to be a killer. Honestly, fighting two daggers against a sword is fantastically dumb. Even if Roy's sword looks ridiculously oversized (I'll put that down to artistic limitations of stick figures, but seriously that things insane). Unless Belkar gets a lucky throw that misses Roy's armor, he's a dead halfling.

Mechanically, I'd still go for Roy. Neither of them seem particularly optimized, but Belkar's build is actually crippled. Small size, wielding two weapons without any means of steady damage bonus. Basically, he's only really good as a mook slayer and using his skills to stay away from unskilled opponents.

Zejety
2014-03-09, 11:42 AM
Just from how they are depicted in the comic so far, it seems like Belkar need to make far less of an effort to kill. Grantes, not just a few of them are (commoner) NPCs but he is often seen just casually sticking or throwing his daggers into something to kill it.
Now, this could just be to showcase his different attitude (casual murder, yay!) but I to me it conveyed that he is the Order's strongest physical fighter (bar Thor's Might).

EDIT: But yeah, in a duel between the two of them, Dieneke's points are actually very valid...

ScrapperTBP
2014-03-09, 11:53 AM
I would agree that Roy should win mechanically but I think Belkar might have it. I say that purely based on this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0613.html)

Handled himself against a fighter and a high level assassin.

Seto
2014-03-09, 12:09 PM
I'd have to say Roy. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0748.html)

Teapot Salty
2014-03-09, 12:18 PM
I'd have to say Roy. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0748.html)

I thought someone would bring up that strip. Problem is, I don't think Belkar was really trying. He was just kind off flailing his arms. But, that said, Roy still did land a good hit, sooooo.

FlayerIV
2014-03-09, 12:25 PM
Realistically, Dienekes has it right. Guy in armour plus reach beats daggers. Yes if the daggers can get close they can do some damage, but also remember that unless Belkar wants to stab Roy's shins he has to jump upwards to get the vulnerable face, and being mid-air when someone is pointing a sword at you is not the best idea. Also, it's called a pommel bash.

Mechanically... I'm pretty sure Roy would win. Even if Belkar had the mechanical edge, which is debatable, Roy is a big fan of unorthodox tactics as evidenced in his fight with Thog. Even if not strictly a victory by mechanics, Roy uses his brain to get the advantage, and that gives Roy yet another edge.

NerdyKris
2014-03-09, 12:33 PM
At the very least, Roy has implied confidently that he can beat Belkar in a one on one fight. This was also backed up by Shojo allowing him to act as his jailor. Belkar also seems to respect Roy as a threat. I think Roy would win in a straight fight.

FlayerIV
2014-03-09, 12:35 PM
Of course if Belkar got his dinosaur back I'd be willing to reconsider the odds.

Draxonicar
2014-03-09, 12:54 PM
Belkar, no question. Roy's a meatshield with a head for tactics that makes him an excellent group leader and strategist, but he's not built for damage.

Time and time again we've seen Belkar single-handedly slaughter scores of enemies with very little effort involved. Roy's greatest feats are getting murdered by a bored Lich and beating Thog through plot contrivance.

Here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0611.html) we see Belkar take on an entire adventuring party by himself, killing or incapacitating them all almost instantly.

Here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0613.html) Belkar is able to take on two rogues that are the same level as Haley without a scratch. He's able to effortlessly accomplish something that Haley almost died trying.

Also, if we're including the full assets of both characters, it isn't even a Contest (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0922.html)

Aolbain
2014-03-09, 01:30 PM
Belkar, no question. Roy's a meatshield with a head for tactics that makes him an excellent group leader and strategist, but he's not built for damage.

Why would you say that. I'm actually curious, I've seen nothing that hints towards Roy not giving as hard as he takes.


Time and time again we've seen Belkar single-handedly slaughter scores of enemies with very little effort involved.

Something Roy is also perfectly capable to.
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0917.html


Roy's greatest feats are getting murdered by a bored Lich and beating Thog through plot contrivance.

No, Roy's greatest feats, beyond mowing down Tarquins mooks, are defeating a higher level Paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0408.html and http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0409.html) and using his brain to take down a raging barbarian.(being smart is not "plot contrivance".)


Here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0611.html) we see Belkar take on an entire adventuring party by himself, killing or incapacitating them all almost instantly.

...that is a bunch of low-level rogues. Mr. Scruffy could take them down.


Here (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0613.html) Belkar is able to take on two rogues that are the same level as Haley without a scratch. He's able to effortlessly accomplish something that Haley almost died trying.

He managed to not get hit for 15 seconds. Impressive, but hardly prof of his inherent superiority.


Also, if we're including the full assets of both characters, it isn't even a Contest (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0922.html)

Belkar did have a totally bitchin' dinosaur. I'll give him that.


__________________________________________________ _______________


To answer the original question: In dnd mechanics Belkar doesn't stand a chance. Roy hits (much) harder and (slightly) better. Can take more punishment and should be at least as hard to hit. But game stats are almost irrelevant so if it came to it in the comics I would give it around 50/50.

Mando Knight
2014-03-09, 01:32 PM
Belkar, no question. Roy's a meatshield with a head for tactics that makes him an excellent group leader and strategist, but he's not built for damage.
Highest base strength of the team, a Belt of Giant's Strength, a two-handed +5 weapon, even weapon specialization (normally, a terrible feat)... yeah, he's got damage. Maybe not a specialist, but he has enough to impale a high level paladin (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0408.html) or take out a Megaraptor and rider (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0920.html) or a whole group of mooks (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0919.html) in a single swing.

...No, wait. That's a single swing (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0917.html) for a Megaraptor (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dinosaur.htm#megaraptor) (based on size). I'm pretty sure that he's got a good amount of damage in that swing. Probably a plot-determined full Power Attack critical or something, but still.

Time and time again we've seen Belkar single-handedly slaughter scores of enemies with very little effort involved. Roy's greatest feats are getting murdered by a bored Lich and beating Thog through plot contrivance.
Murdered by a bored epic lich. Belkar slaughtered mostly scores of mooks, which once again, Roy is capable of as well.

Roy's also tough enough to survive getting munched on by an allosaur, impaled by a charging triceratops, and impaled by a +5 greatsword in the hands of another, higher-level fighter.

Duck999
2014-03-09, 01:48 PM
Realistically, Roy wouldn't be able to land a hit on Belkar unless Belkar was purposefully standing directly in front of him. Belkar could dodge with ease, and stab Roy enough.

Draxonicar
2014-03-09, 02:00 PM
I'm not sure you guys realize just how useless paladins who've fallen are, they're one of few things in D&D actually worse than a full fighter.

Roy wears armor, sure, but between Belkar's small size and presumably considerable dex bonus as a high level Ranger, as well as any dodge or evasion feats he could easily be much harder to hit than Roy.

EDIT: Roy having cross-class skill points in Knowledge (Architecture) and being able to use them to defeat a much more optimized opponent was a plot contrivance. Thog, as a half-orc barbarian with intelligence and wisdom as his dump stats is a much better fighter than a full-fighter with uselessly high mental stats and cross-class skill points.

However, the main character getting slaughtered by a better optimized idiot rival wouldn't be very satisfying, so he is able to use his cross-class skill points in deus ex machina to win.

There's nothing WRONG with it per se, but it was most certainly a plot contrivance to allow Roy to win that fight.

Porthos
2014-03-09, 02:09 PM
I'm not sure you guys realize just how useless paladins who've fallen are, they're one of few things in D&D actually worse than a full fighter.

And I think you're seriously underestimating how much damage Roy can deal out as well as how good he is at hitting things. So we're even when both of those things are taken into account. :smalltongue:

Dienekes
2014-03-09, 02:54 PM
Realistically, Roy wouldn't be able to land a hit on Belkar unless Belkar was purposefully standing directly in front of him. Belkar could dodge with ease, and stab Roy enough.

You ever fought with swords before? Because dodging and diving and whatnot without a means of protection or weapon suitable for parrying and maintaining the appropriate distance is a good way of getting yourself killed.

Swords are fast, even big swords. No one moves so fast all the time that they'll always dodge away from the tip of a sword used by an expert. Let's say Roy misses, it can definitely happen, Belkar still would have to close the gap (hard to do for a normal combatant much less someone half the size of a normal person), and make a debilitating attack on somewhere that is not covered in armor.

And no, armor will not slow him down. Armor is generally designed for the express purpose of not doing that, and furthermore Roy would be trained in fighting in its use. This is really an example of an armed warrior fighting against a midget. A skilled midget no mistake, but he has such a ridiculous disadvantage even before his poor choice of weapon.

King of Nowhere
2014-03-09, 03:16 PM
power equals power, and everything is oddly balanced. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0657.html)
belkar has fighting skills and stealth skills and animal skills. roy has only fighting skills. therefore his fighting skills should be better than belkar's, and that is balanced by belkar's other skills.

someone may argue that spellcasters are not balanced because they are stronger. well, they are balanced in that if they have the wrong spells for the encounter they risk being useless. you professional minmaxer will further argue that with good strategy it is possible to get over that, and it is true, but in the hand of a casual gamer (which make up over 90% of players) a caster isn't stronger than a fighter type. it takes a skilled player to break the balance.

Jaxzan Proditor
2014-03-09, 03:56 PM
I think either way, Roy wins.

Amphiox
2014-03-09, 04:02 PM
When we say "realistically" do we mean with D&D or real life physiological rules applying?

Because while it may well be possible, or even likely, that in a fight Belkar WOULD get two pieces of steel into where Roy's brain would be as a first or early hit, if D&D rules were applying, such would give Roy the equivalent of a mild headache, and the fight would continue.

Mando Knight
2014-03-09, 04:51 PM
When we say "realistically" do we mean with D&D or real life physiological rules applying?

Because while it may well be possible, or even likely, that in a fight Belkar WOULD get two pieces of steel into where Roy's brain would be as a first or early hit, if D&D rules were applying, such would give Roy the equivalent of a mild headache, and the fight would continue.

I assume "realistically" means "closer to real life 'rules,'" in which case Roy simply wins because skilled armored guy with a big sword >> unarmored half-pint with dulled knives. Reach, strength, and armor are more powerful in real life than they are in D&D.

Loreweaver15
2014-03-09, 04:53 PM
I'm not sure you guys realize just how useless paladins who've fallen are, they're one of few things in D&D actually worse than a full fighter.

Roy wears armor, sure, but between Belkar's small size and presumably considerable dex bonus as a high level Ranger, as well as any dodge or evasion feats he could easily be much harder to hit than Roy.

EDIT: Roy having cross-class skill points in Knowledge (Architecture) and being able to use them to defeat a much more optimized opponent was a plot contrivance. Thog, as a half-orc barbarian with intelligence and wisdom as his dump stats is a much better fighter than a full-fighter with uselessly high mental stats and cross-class skill points.

However, the main character getting slaughtered by a better optimized idiot rival wouldn't be very satisfying, so he is able to use his cross-class skill points in deus ex machina to win.

There's nothing WRONG with it per se, but it was most certainly a plot contrivance to allow Roy to win that fight.

Sooooooooo Roy using his wits and observational skills in such a way as to turn his more powerful opponent's skills against him is a deus ex machina, now, rather than a firmly established part of Roy's skill set?

oppyu
2014-03-09, 05:00 PM
Mechanically, I'm given to understand that Belkar is about as weak and inefficient as possible for anyone his level with PC classes.

Narratively, I think Belkar's rep has been artificially inflated due to his level of opposition. His most impressive feat was taking on Bozzok and Crystal and neither of their classes were designed for straight melee. I'm fairly certain Roy or Durkon could have done the same in his position. Hell, maybe even Elan if the Pun was particularly strong that day. Roy's bigger, armoured, and much smarter than Belkar. So much smarter. That's his biggest advantage; even if Belkar holds his own in straight melee Roy will just outthink him.

Jay R
2014-03-09, 05:20 PM
Like most people on more-or-less the same level, if you ran it ten times, each would win at least three.

There's not a clear answer in this kind of question.

Vinyadan
2014-03-09, 05:35 PM
I think Roy would win, for many reasons.
The first one is that Belkar isn't a good (or neutral) person, and the fact that he hasn't yet killed anyone in the Order is because of fear. While he might simply be afraid of being outnumbered, the fact that he chose to attempt to murder Elan and not anyone else makes me think that he wasn't so sure of being able at taking out anyone else.
Secondly, he is surprised that Durkon dies and he survives. While this simply be because he more or less believes in karma, it could also be because he knows that Durkon was stronger than him. This means that he knows that there are party members he cannot defeat, and one of them was the armored one.
Thirdly, Ranger as a class has other strong points than direct fight. If Belkar really, absolutely had to kill Roy, he would do the same he did with Miko, possibly without sparing her, given that his objective was to have her kill him. I don't think Belkar is stupid enough to charge against Roy.
Fourthly, they both have assets which aren't always at their disposals. They both are equipment dependent, and Belkar may not always have a befriended dinosaur around, while Roy may not always have the right skill at the right moment.

I think that, in a direct fight with their standard equipment, Roy would reduce Belkar to mincemeat. If Mr Scruffy also were around, Roy would have some more troubles, but he would still win.
In a direct fight with a lot of luck involved for both, Belkar might win. He simply has a better chance of finding allies, and he might find equipment as good as Roy would.
If they were both naked, I think Roy may win, but I am not really sure. It depends if he manages to grapple Belkar.

But I think that the important thing was the fight against Thog for Roy, and against Miko for Belkar. Roy shew that he could use an opponent's skills and (simple) temperament against him. Belkar that he could use an opponent's (simple) character against her. A real fight between them would likely have a very long standoff, with Belkar hiding somewhere and pulling out traps and whatnot, and Roy trying to outsmart his deranged smartness. It would be a Batman vs Joker scenario. It would be very cool, both opponents would know each other, and I am not sure of who would win.

theNater
2014-03-09, 05:40 PM
Roy wears armor, sure, but between Belkar's small size and presumably considerable dex bonus as a high level Ranger, as well as any dodge or evasion feats he could easily be much harder to hit than Roy.
"Harder to hit than Roy" is not the same as "hard for Roy to hit". Because attack bonus goes up with level and AC doesn't, by this point Roy and Belkar are pretty much guaranteed to hit each other multiple times each round. Even if we make the assumption that Belkar is doing as much damage per round as Roy is(unlikely, given the weapons they use), Roy is more able to take a beating.

Like most people on more-or-less the same level, if you ran it ten times, each would win at least three.
While luck would be a significant factor, I'm pretty sure Roy has the advantage.

Cavenskull
2014-03-09, 06:01 PM
I'm not sure you guys realize just how useless paladins who've fallen are, they're one of few things in D&D actually worse than a full fighter.

Roy wears armor, sure, but between Belkar's small size and presumably considerable dex bonus as a high level Ranger, as well as any dodge or evasion feats he could easily be much harder to hit than Roy.

EDIT: Roy having cross-class skill points in Knowledge (Architecture) and being able to use them to defeat a much more optimized opponent was a plot contrivance. Thog, as a half-orc barbarian with intelligence and wisdom as his dump stats is a much better fighter than a full-fighter with uselessly high mental stats and cross-class skill points.

However, the main character getting slaughtered by a better optimized idiot rival wouldn't be very satisfying, so he is able to use his cross-class skill points in deus ex machina to win.

There's nothing WRONG with it per se, but it was most certainly a plot contrivance to allow Roy to win that fight.
You can call it a plot contrivance all you want, but it's definitely not a deus ex machina. Roy is the one who decided upon and enacted his plan. He wasn't completely helpless, only to be saved by the unexpected intervention of some deity or person that had never been mentioned before.

Anarion
2014-03-09, 06:39 PM
Belkar does have humans as his favored enemy (most likely, check out the class and level geekery thread), so in terms of D&D mechanics, his attacks would be hurting Roy reasonably well despite small daggers. That said, in D&D terms, Belkar would get crushed by Roy. Roy has a very powerful weapon with a lot of feats and stats centered around that weapon and is naturally gifted with high base stats. In other words, size bonus or not, Roy is going to be hitting Belkar with his attacks and his hits are going to do a lot of damage. Roy also has more HP than Belkar, who has only a couple barbarian levels and mostly ranger levels.

In realistic terms, I think it's also pretty clear that Roy wins. As people have said, you cant' really dodge a sword repeatedly, and Belkar is not fast enough to somehow close the gap, dodge, and land a fight-ending blow before Roy can turn his swing around. It is possible that a lucky thrown dagger could hit the throat or some exposed armor joint though, so it's not a gimme by any means.

Talvereaux
2014-03-09, 06:57 PM
I'm not sure you guys realize just how useless paladins who've fallen are, they're one of few things in D&D actually worse than a full fighter.

About as useless as a Halfling Ranger/Barbarian who dual wields knives and can't cast any of his class' spells if I were to guess. :wink:

D&D rules don't matter here, but if you're going to use them to undercut Roy, we have to use them against Belkar, too, just so we're being equally fair. While Roy's build would lack focus, Belkar's is unusable right down to the barest bones.

With that being said, I want to say Roy would win. Belkar's a whimsical murderer, but Roy's an intelligent, durable, and disciplined warrior. Belkar's pretty nimble, but I get the impression if they were both going for the kill, Roy would swat him like a fly before he gets the chance to give him the death of a thousand cuts. He's also a fair degree smarter, so it might be harder to Belkar to count on a cheap shot, while Roy would probably figure out how to outmaneuver him if he really does end up losing the fight in terms of brute strength. (which I'm skeptical of, Belkar can slaughter low-level mooks en masse, as most of the Order can, but he usually gets controlled or incapacitated immediately during your average 'boss fight', so I suspect he doesn't hold up against things that approach his level range)

If the allosaur is available, that's a pretty big advantage for Belkar and I can put my chips into him winning in those circumstances. Otherwise, I think Roy will "knock him back to basic" again.

veti
2014-03-09, 07:00 PM
I think Belkar would survive for the same reason as he survived this (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0870.html): because there's a prophecy he's going to die, so every time he's in danger a substantial number of people assume This Is It, and the Giant loves to mess with us.

Conversely, Roy would also survive, because he's done the dying thing once already, and it would be stretching credulity to have Belkar of all people top him again. In fact, Belkar has always been unfailingly loyal to Roy. I can't imagine he actually wants to kill him.

So my money would be on "rain stops play".

Vinyadan
2014-03-09, 07:07 PM
You know, Belkar could use his sonic attack to break Roy's sword.

FlayerIV
2014-03-09, 11:26 PM
Despite the debate raging back and forth here, I think we can all agree that if nothing else, this fight would be a totally awesome scene to see in the future of OOTS.

Teapot Salty
2014-03-10, 12:00 AM
Despite the debate raging back and forth here, I think we can all agree that if nothing else, this fight would be a totally awesome scene to see in the future of OOTS.
That statements trueness cannot be overcome

Living Oxymoron
2014-03-10, 03:39 AM
I would agree that Roy should win mechanically but I think Belkar might have it. I say that purely based on this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0613.html)

Handled himself against a fighter and a high level assassin.

Bozzok is a Fighter? I thought he was a Rogue... (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0609.html) :smallconfused:

MagicalMeat
2014-03-10, 03:41 AM
Honestly, I really don't see them engaging in a straight up fight. I would imagine the fight would go something like Belkar's fight with Miko: lots of hiding and running away. And if that fight is anything to go by, Belkar would win.

But let's say for the sake of this argument that Belkar is trapped and they have to fight. In that case, I really can't see Belkar winning. I tend to see them doing similar damage, but Roy is able to take more hits. You think Belkar would survive against Thog? People have said that Belkar would dodge, but I find that unlikely. If some crappy Hobgoblins and some low level Rogues and land a hit, I think the high level fighter with awesome magical items can, too.

12owlbears
2014-03-10, 09:29 AM
Honestly, I really don't see them engaging in a straight up fight. I would imagine the fight would go something like Belkar's fight with Miko: lots of hiding and running away. And if that fight is anything to go by, Belkar would win.


Do you mean the fight that Belkar lost. If I remember correctly that fight ended with Miko about to kill Belkar until V intervened. The running and hiding strategy wouldn't work because all Roy has to do is stand in an open area until Belkar runs out of patience and comes out of hiding.

Zejety
2014-03-10, 09:44 AM
Do you mean the fight that Belkar lost. If I remember correctly that fight ended with Miko about to kill Belkar until V intervened. The running and hiding strategy wouldn't work because all Roy has to do is stand in an open area until Belkar runs out of patience and comes out of hiding.

Belkar fed her a healing potion though. Also it was his goal to get her to fall, not to kill her.

oppyu
2014-03-10, 10:06 AM
I don't know if 'knock out my opponent with a lead sheet' is an applicable strategy against Roy. Then again, I wouldn't have thought it would be an applicable strategy against Miko, so you never know.

MagicalMeat
2014-03-10, 10:11 AM
I assume that Belkar would do his best to get away if hit and run didn't work. I doubt he would stick around for Roy to pound his ass in.

Zejety
2014-03-10, 11:14 AM
By the way, I think Belkar isn't too shabby either when it comes to smart fighting:
http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0270.html
(even though that one did not end with him winning)

Mando Knight
2014-03-10, 11:22 AM
Belkar fed her a healing potion though. Also it was his goal to get her to fall, not to kill her.

He used the potion on himself.

Zejety
2014-03-10, 12:11 PM
He used the potion on himself.
Oops, you're right. I remembered that scene (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0281.html) wrongly, sorry!
Still, it looks like Miko was at Belkar's mercy here.

And, yes, this point still stands: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0286.html
Although we do not exactly now if Belkar speaks truthfully here, especially considering how V's action pushed him/her into Belkar's "lust" zone.

Nightcanon
2014-03-10, 05:25 PM
Depends what we mean by "realistically"- according to the 3.5 PH, halflings are 3 feet tall and weigh about 30-35lb: about as heavy as a 'rule of thumb' 3-4 year old, and not quite as tall. Roy will be approaching 200 lb and about 6 feet. Realistically, boxing matches are decided by inches of reach, not multiples. D&D underestimates the effects of size, because it has to: its combat system was designed to allow humans to fight ogres and giants and indeed dragons: big, intelligent, flying dinosaury things. For human heroes to have any chance against those, any size mechanic has to be so unrealistic as to ignore the fact that even an average adult will be able to put even a knife-weilding psychopath of a chunky 3 year-old to bed with no supper. Assuming the 3 year-old doesn't have his own dinosaur, of course...

Koo Rehtorb
2014-03-10, 08:13 PM
Both realistically and mechanically Roy would trounce Belkar.

SowZ
2014-03-12, 12:44 AM
power equals power, and everything is oddly balanced. (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0657.html)
belkar has fighting skills and stealth skills and animal skills. roy has only fighting skills. therefore his fighting skills should be better than belkar's, and that is balanced by belkar's other skills.

someone may argue that spellcasters are not balanced because they are stronger. well, they are balanced in that if they have the wrong spells for the encounter they risk being useless. you professional minmaxer will further argue that with good strategy it is possible to get over that, and it is true, but in the hand of a casual gamer (which make up over 90% of players) a caster isn't stronger than a fighter type. it takes a skilled player to break the balance.

And based on the encounter, your skill point and feat investment risk being useless.

Anyway, I think Roy would end up winning. Belkar would hit Roy a lot more, but he has been shown to have more hit points and hit much harder. It is a good fight, but Roy still wins out. Thing is, as a TWF, Belkar is particularly good at taking on large numbers of weak things. His Damage Per Round doesn't need to be high. His accuracy per swing doesn't need to be high.

But to get past Roy's AC, Belkar has to roll really good on his iteratives. Only his first few attacks have a decent chance of hitting. And Roy should be able to get past Belkar's AC. He should have an attack bonus between 32 and 35. Belkar doesn't have an AC above 40, or probably even above 30.

Jay R
2014-03-12, 10:22 AM
Hey guys. In a dual to the death, no holds bared, starting 50 ft away from each other, both want the other dead.

This scenario favors Roy. Put in lots of small places to hide, high places to jump from, and it favors Belkar.

SoC175
2014-03-12, 02:26 PM
This scenario favors Roy. Put in lots of small places to hide, high places to jump from, and it favors Belkar.No, it then favors Roy even more.

Roy merely uses ready action to attack when Belkar comes within range. Both are now limited to one attack per round and Roy's hits a lot harder.

Standing still and trading full attacks is actually the least worse option for Belkar, since this way he can at least have his superior number of attacks per round.

Teapot Salty
2014-03-12, 08:56 PM
Do you mean the fight that Belkar lost. If I remember correctly that fight ended with Miko about to kill Belkar until V intervened. The running and hiding strategy wouldn't work because all Roy has to do is stand in an open area until Belkar runs out of patience and comes out of hiding.

He could've killed Miko if he wanted to. http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0281.html

davidbofinger
2014-03-12, 11:18 PM
Roy's sword looks ridiculously oversized (I'll put that down to artistic limitations of stick figures, but seriously that things insane).

If it's a greatsword then it ought to be bit longer than Roy is tall. Looks roughly right to me.

Jay R
2014-03-13, 10:28 AM
Even if Roy's sword looks ridiculously oversized (I'll put that down to artistic limitations of stick figures, but seriously that things insane).

No, it's about right for a two-handed sword. They were used in the era of full plate, when a mere longsword could only be used on joints and other unarmored weak spots.

Here's a period plate:
http://www.thearma.org/essays/langk1.jpg
Here's another, from 1548:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d3/Battle_of_Kappel_detail.jpg

More information here (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwiehander).