[3.5] Building the Arcane Age

[MadGreenSon]

I'm working on a campaign/setting for a game I'm planning on running in the Arcane Age, specifically the Golden Age of Netheril.

I've already been through the excellent Arcanist stuff designed by Arcanist here (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=258128)

The game will definitely be going into the Epic levels, though not starting there. Is there anything further already put out about the era available?

I have some ideas beyond what's already been put out about Netherese society from the inside. But anything anyone else has is welcome too.

One thing for this I need to get down first is 10th, 11th, and 12th level spells. They can't just be Epic spells, they have to be their own thing. The 2nd Ed version had the 10th+ level spells needing exotic ingredients but not the sort of things that go into Epic spells (I figure Netherese Arcanists consider Epic spells to be a kind of ad-hoc "magic hack" that can be used instead of true 10+ level spells or part of the research process for new ones)

So, any ideas on how the higher levels of spells should work?

[MadGreenSon]

Part of my setup will, of course, be how arcanists and the families fit into Netherese society.

Well, they're the noble caste, of course. Pretty much any noble with any amount of influence or respect will be a full arcane caster or a very powerful gish type at least.

Noble families that produce or are headed by a true archwizard have the most influence and status.

Archwizards are the epic-level arcanists who found the various enclaves, if someone common-born reaches this level, they and their descendants are promoted to full noble status immediately.

Anyone born of common stock who has talent and becomes a full-on arcanist becomes a part of the noble caste on a basis similar to the lifetime peerages in Great Britian, they are noble, but the status is not hereditary like it is with the archwizard families.

Cantras: even the commoners of Netheril had some degree of ability with magic, these "Cantras" are mostly determined by their occupation and what their needs are. I've not got this ironed out yet, but the number of cantras known/per day is gonna be based on Intelligence and character level. I see them as being 0-1st level spells or the equivalent maybe 2nd level in certain special cases.
The key to Cantras is to make them handy without being big game-changers.

[Alleran]

The Netheril book from AD&D or so had examples of 10th and 11th level spells.

From what I recall (I'll check later and make sure), turning them into epic spells would probably result in 10th ranging up to about 300-400 on the Spellcraft check, and 11th anything above that. There was only ever one 12th level spell.

[MadGreenSon]

The Netheril book from AD&D or so had examples of 10th and 11th level spells.

From what I recall (I'll check later and make sure), turning them into epic spells would probably result in 10th ranging up to about 300-400 on the Spellcraft check, and 11th anything above that. There was only ever one 12th level spell.

Sure, 10th and 11th level spells should be a bitch to do as Epic Spells, there needs to be some oomph to the legendary powers of the archwizards of old, right?

But they are not going to function as epic spells, because they wouldn't be.

And yeah, I have all the old Arcane Age stuff from 2nd Ed.

[Alleran]

After checking around for comparisons (leveled on left, epic on right):

Create Volcano (10) --> Volcano (DC 56)
Weave Mythal (10) --> Mythal seed (DC varies)
Tolodine's Killing Wind (10) --> Tolodine's Killing Wind (DC 70)
Proctiv's Move Mountain (10) --> Proctiv's Move Mountain (DC 280)
Mavin's Worldweave (11) --> Ice Age or similar spells (DC 323 for Ice Age)

Then there are the ones that I wouldn't even know where to start as far as pricing is concerned. The 11th level "Breach Crystal Sphere" spell could close a crystal sphere (or open one). Once the players reach the level where they'd have access to 10th or 11th level spells, there's nothing really left for them to do, though I would suggest that you should make them get the "Improved Spell Capacity" feat to actually get the spell slots for such spells, and then after learning them they can just cast them as they need them. The material components are things like a 100-ton spelljammer with a major helm (for Breach Crystal Sphere), a mythallar + levitation item + crystal ball (for Proctiv's Move Mountain) and the like. So they're mostly for what you'd do when you're an epic caster creating your base of operations. Still, others didn't have components at all. Tolodine's Killing Wind? Verbal component only.

[MadGreenSon]

After checking around for comparisons (leveled on left, epic on right):

Create Volcano (10) --> Volcano (DC 56)
Weave Mythal (10) --> Mythal seed (DC varies)
Tolodine's Killing Wind (10) --> Tolodine's Killing Wind (DC 70)
Proctiv's Move Mountain (10) --> Proctiv's Move Mountain (DC 280)
Mavin's Worldweave (11) --> Ice Age or similar spells (DC 323 for Ice Age)


Thanks for helping put them in perspective. This'll help me come up with a few more 10th-11th level spells for general consumption.



Then there are the ones that I wouldn't even know where to start as far as pricing is concerned. The 11th level "Breach Crystal Sphere" spell could close a crystal sphere (or open one). Once the players reach the level where they'd have access to 10th or 11th level spells, there's nothing really left for them to do, though I would suggest that you should make them get the "Improved Spell Capacity" feat to actually get the spell slots for such spells, and then after learning them they can just cast them as they need them. The material components are things like a 100-ton spelljammer with a major helm (for Breach Crystal Sphere), a mythallar + levitation item + crystal ball (for Proctiv's Move Mountain) and the like. So they're mostly for what you'd do when you're an epic caster creating your base of operations. Still, others didn't have components at all. Tolodine's Killing Wind? Verbal component only.

Nothing left to do at high levels? I run at that level all the time my friend! Breaking open the sky to go beyond it isn't even something that's never happened in games I've run before.

I also run Exalted, you see. Epic powers and world shaking magic do not intimidate me and do not make me run out of ideas.

As far as the varying components for the high level stuff, you are right. Though the original Killing Wind demanded at least 2 levels from the caster and stood a chance of breaching the Negative Energy Plane.
I think it's going to depend on the complexity and duration of what a 10+ spell does more than anything.
"All those guys die now" being much simpler than "the top is now sliced off this mountain, flipped and it flies now" but both spells are the same level. The second requires more components than the first.

Did that make sense?

[Alleran]

Nothing left to do at high levels?
Not really in a single crystal sphere, in my opinion. Planar-wise? Sure (by the time any of my campaigns reached 9th level spells they/we barely ever went back to the Material, let alone epic spells), but if you can easily cast spells to open or close a crystal sphere, then you're firmly operating on a planar scale (it's implied that there are crystal spheres out there that were sealed, which could serve as a means of engendering high-end plots; see if you can break open Athas with it, perhaps?).

As far as the components are concerned, I see that as a perfectly fine way of doing it if that suits you. Killing Wind's epic form has a huge XP drain to substitute for the levels of the 10th-level spell, I would assume.

[MadGreenSon]

Not really in a single crystal sphere, in my opinion. Planar-wise? Sure (by the time any of my campaigns reached 9th level spells they/we barely ever went back to the Material, let alone epic spells), but if you can easily cast spells to open or close a crystal sphere, then you're firmly operating on a planar scale (it's implied that there are crystal spheres out there that were sealed, which could serve as a means of engendering high-end plots; see if you can break open Athas with it, perhaps?).


Not completely on-topic, but anyone ever think that if you crossed settings, that wizards and sorcerers from Athas would operate on a different level (not more powerful, per se, but different) from similar characters in the Realms or other settings just due to how they gather magic from life itself rather than the Weave or what have you?


I think I've figured a way for Cantras (commoner magic) to work, it's just a matter of determining effects and tables for it.
Page 28 of the original campaign book gives a table for determining how many Cantras a non-arcanist gets based on Intelligence and how many times a day they can be used.
I'm going to start from there and add in increases in both by level and have level of effect matter as well. Cantras will have a certain number of "slots" depending on Intelligence and character level.
0-level equivalents (mage hand, mending, create water, etc.) take up one slot
1st-level equivalents (magecraft, unseen servant) take up two
2nd level equivalents (unseen crafter and what else?) take three

Once you've learned them, you can't generally change them later. They'll be effects used for various crafts and a few that soldier-types will find handy. Mostly the kind of utility magic that arcanists just throw into a wand or eternal wand and forget about for the most part. But having common craftfolk with a few minor spells that aid in whatever jobs they do is handy.

There'll likely be a feat for arcanists who maintain/develop the ability to do them too.

Any further ideas for the sort of effects available as Cantras would be appreciated.

[MadGreenSon]

More on the noble caste:

All of the nobility are at least partial arcanists (usually straight arcanist, sometimes multi-classed, often prestige classes.) Arcane power is what maintains a noble family's standing after all.
Therefore they fix the odds of getting arcane power in the blood.

There'll be at least a spell that duplicates the intent of the Sherem Transformation spell from Ghostwalk (pg 57), but focused on Arcanists and with no Monk option.

Spells of a similar nature that boost or give reason for special feats will be the order of the day. Also gives reason for a PC to possibly have an unusual template if the family got experimental with prenatal boost spells, suddenly Junior is a Dark Human or Magic Blooded or even Spellwarped. (all human in the game after all, Netheril is a human Empire).
Spelltouched feats? I may give one out free for the asking to children of the High Nobility. The dark side is that a re-fluffed Test Subject flaw may be fairly common as well.

More thoughts on Cantras: they will basically be low-level spells, each one will have a tag as to the profession that most often uses them and they'll be divided into Common (0lvl), Advanced (1st) and Greater Cantras (2nd)
Notation would be like so:

Mending (crafter/servant)
Detect Poison (servant)
Caltrops (soldier)

and so on.

Definite that Cantra "slots" will be determined by Intelligence with +1 every 2 character levels. Common Cantras take 1 slot, Advanced take 3, Greater take 5.

The ability to learn and use Cantras is actually a part of just how easy it is to use the Weave in this era. It's wilder, more powerful, less restrained. The Mystryl, the Goddess of Magic is Chaotic Neutral in this era, after all.

The Shadow Weave is probably not a thing either yet, the wilder stronger Weave probably dosen't have the same kind of structure to it that the Weave would have under the first Mystra (who was Lawful Neutral) or her successor, who kept it more or less the same.
Shar probably got the Shadow Weave really up and running after the fall of Netheril. (Thanks Karsus!)

[Jeff the Green]

The Shadow Weave is probably not a thing either yet, the wilder stronger Weave probably dosen't have the same kind of structure to it that the Weave would have under the first Mystra (who was Lawful Neutral) or her successor, who kept it more or less the same.
Shar probably got the Shadow Weave really up and running after the fall of Netheril. (Thanks Karsus!)

At least according to NWN2, it was. When Karsus's folly was cast, the weave was interrupted for a fraction of a second. This would have destroyed the magical guardian Illefarn had created to protect against Netheril, so it shifted over to the Shadow Weave and became corrupted by it.