Adding a Half-Minotaur Template Question

[Ironsides]

Hello everyone this is my first time posting. I am looking at building a War Hulk/Hulking Hurler character and I want to make sure my starting stats are correct when adding a Half-Minotaur template from the Dragon magazine #313. I want to play a Human/Half-Minotaur that is not too optimized. Reading about this build I do not think I need to optimize it for it to be awesome. I am using an Elite Array as a baseline to start with (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8).

Human stats:

STR 10(+2 added from the human bonus), DEX 13, CON 15, INT 12, WIS 14, CHA 10

Now I add the stat changes from the size increase I get from going from medium to large. This is a +8 STR, -2 DEX, +4 CON (I used the MM table 4-2 on page 291).

STR 18, DEX 11, CON 19, INT 12, WIS 14, CHA 10, (Natural armor +2), (-1 AC/Attack)

Next I added the racial changes from the Half-Minotaur template a +4 STR, +2 CON, -2 INT.

STR 22, DEX 11, CON 21, INT 12, WIS 14, CHA 10

The question I have is whether the half-minotaur template is additive to the size state progression from the MM or a replacement of the size state progression from the MM. Because if it is a replacement then I would need to change the numbers of the elite array around to something like this.

STR 17 (2 added from the human bonus) , DEX 12, CON 14, INT 13, WIS 10, CHA 8

Now I add just the Half-Minotaur template:

STR 21, DEX 12, CON 16, INT 11, WIS 10, CHA 8

Also I wonder if I would still get the extra feat at the first level like normal.

Your help and input would be very appreciated.

[Mcdt2]

Yes, the two sets of ability increases do stack, by RAW. However, this is almost universally agreed to be way overkill for LA +1. Personally, I rule that you don't add the size increases/penalties and take just the racial bonuses, but even so, it's a very strong template. I run very high power games, though, so I tend to allow it with my adjustments at LA +1 anyway.

Secondly, yes, you still keep you human bonus feat, as nothing in the half-minotaur template says it removes existing racial traits (like the Dragonborn template does, for example, which even explicitly removes the human bonus feat).

Lastly, Humans don't get any bonuses to ability scores, unless you are playing Pathfinder. If you are, it's possible half-minotaur may not be available. Ask your DM. Personally, I use PF races, and otherwise use 3.5 rules, so again, this would be okay at my table.

[Ironsides]

Thanks Mcdt2 for answering my question. I brought it up to my GM and we decided that RAW is too powerful and that just adding the Half-Minotaur stats would be enough.

Also good catch with the human racial traits that I added that was a mistake on my part. I have been reading a lot about pathfinder so that's where I must have gotten it from.

Now if only I could figure out how level buy off works for a +1 LA character...

[OldTrees1]

Thanks Mcdt2 for answering my question. I brought it up to my GM and we decided that RAW is too powerful and that just adding the Half-Minotaur stats would be enough.

Also good catch with the human racial traits that I added that was a mistake on my part. I have been reading a lot about pathfinder so that's where I must have gotten it from.

Now if only I could figure out how level buy off works for a +1 LA character...

Extrapolated from the LA Buyoff examples:

When you gain LA (say by starting with a +1 LA template or later gaining a template) you must wait 3*LA levels before you can use LA buyoff. At that time you pay the xp cost ((ECL - 1) * 1000xp). Then the process begins again with another waiting period based on your new LA.

Example 1:
Half Minotaur Human (LA +1, 0 class levels)
Waiting period: 3 * +1 = 3 levels
Half Minotaur Human Barbarian 3 (LA +1, 3 class levels, ECL 4, 6000xp)
Pay the xp cost: (4-1)*1000 = 3000
Half Minotaur Human Barbarian 3 (LA +0, 3 class levels, ECL 3, 3000xp)

Example 2:
Dwarf Ghost 1 [savage progressions] (LA +1, 0 class levels)
Waiting period: 3 * +1 = 3 levels
Dwarf Ghost 1 Rogue 3 (LA +1, 3 class levels, ECL 4, 6000xp)
Pay the xp cost: (4-1)*1000 = 3000
Dwarf Ghost 1 Rogue 3 (LA +0, 3 class levels, ECL 3, 3000xp)
Gain more LA [involves adventuring for xp in this case]
Dwarf Ghost 2 Rogue 3 (LA +1, 3 class levels, ECL 4, 6000xp)
Waiting period: 3 * +1 = 3 more levels
Dwarf Ghost 2 Rogue 6 (LA +1, 6 class levels, ECL 7, 21000xp)
Pay the xp cost: (7-1)*1000 = 6000
Dwarf Ghost 2 Rogue 6 (LA +0, 6 class levels, ECL 6, 15000xp)

Example 3:
Orc Half Nymph (LA +2, 0 class levels)
Waiting period: 3 * +2 = 6 levels
Orc Half Nymph Sorcerer 6 (LA +2, 6 class levels, ECL 8, 28000xp)
Pay the xp cost: (8-1)*1000 = 7000
Orc Half Nymph Sorcerer 6 (LA +1, 3 class levels, ECL 6, 21000xp)
Waiting period: 3 * +1 = 3 more levels
Orc Half Nymph Sorcerer 9 (LA +1, 9 class levels, ECL 10, 45000xp)
Pay the xp cost: (10-1)*1000 = 9000
Orc Half Nymph Sorcerer 9 (LA +0, 9 class levels, ECL 9, 36000xp)

[Ironsides]

OldTrees1 you are awesome. Thanks for giving me something to work off of. The examples of level buyoff are not very clear to people who are poor at math.


I think I am going to make a mini-handbook for useful feats for this character.

[John Longarrow]

Ironsides,
For your build, I'd recommend either starting with an Orc (+4 STR) or Mongrelfolk (+4 CON) for your hurler. Statistically they work better, plus it would be easier to explain an Orc/mongrelfolk getting together with an Ogre than a Human.

Yes, you can get a STR of about 30 out of the box this way without problems. Yes, it is way powerful, but fun.

[Ironsides]

John Longarrow,

Those are good suggestions, but I don't want to be too overpowered since I am playing with 3 other people who are brand new to D&D and role-playing games in general. Also I think I am becoming overpowered already for our group. Though having +4 CON wouldn't hurt the balance of the party.

The setting for our campaign is a custom one set around 1000 AD in Rome where magic is real and the Roman Empire is still around. My Half-Minotaur is going to be an ex-gladiator that bought/won his freedom. I can see that setting having Minotaurs and Half-Minotaurs imported in from Greece for an exotic bloodsport.