questions about a new 3.5 campaign/character

[drewdp]

I'm setting up a game, my first time GMing, with all new rpgers. My roommate wants to play a blind sorcerer that later becomes a necromancer. First, what item/skill/whatever can we give him so he is not completely useless due to blindness. He will be chaotic neutral where the rest of the party is some form of good.
Next, necromancy is illegal throughout the land, so any good ideas on how he would learn this art? I originally intended to give him a tome he could learn out of himself, but if hes blind that really doesn't help. He needs to learn it without the rest of the party knowing. He suggested maybe communicating with spirits but idk where any rules would be for that kind of thing.

any thoughts/suggestions on setting this up?

[Godskook]

1.Sorcerers *NEVER* need to 'learn' their spells. Its against the lore of the class type to even try to force them to do it(Wizards learn, Sorcerers just *DO* things). Unless I'm missing something, this shouldn't be a problem unless he winds up playing a wizard or cleric necro(which are both, imho, stronger options). To be comprehensive, a wizard necro would be able to pick up such spells as his level-up spells for free as his own "research", and a cleric doesn't 'learn' spells, he 'understands' or 'requests' power given to him by his patron deity.

2.Is "necromancy" is illegal or is raising the undead? The former being a school of magic that few in the 'standard' D&D setting would be able to recognize outside the cases of an undead, while the latter distinction allows you and him a great deal of flexibility in finding and establishing mentors(see Dominic Deegan for a Necromancer who neither raises the dead nor strikes an evil chord within the story via Rilian. Such a character could easily exist in a society that shunned 'obvious' necromancy but who's magicians weren't that closed minded).

3.As to the blindness, I don't know any easy RAW choices.

[Windstorm]

You can get blindsight out to 30' with a Blindfold of True Darkness (9000gp, MIC) or the cheapest way is a gem of the glitterdepth, but that's a relic.

The blindfold is probably the best way, but IMO just handing him a fix isn't the best solution to the problem if he's low level. You have role play and adventure hook gold there, and he has some serious motivation for wanting to learn an otherwise illegal art. Unseen servants only last so long and can do so much, but an undead or magical construct (both are life from unlife) could make his life significantly easier in many practical ways.

I'd recommend throwing him a small bone or two if he has to deal with the blind condition for several levels before being able to afford a blind/tremor sense item, maybe make his vocal or other illusion spells have a higher DC since he has become so adept at using his other senses or his imagination.

As for the "learning" argument, fluff is whatever you want it to be, for a sorcerer it could be he just needs an encounter with another necromancer to get a 'feel' for the magic involved

[drewdp]

Well he was planning on starting Sorcerer, and cross classing into a necromancer via: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Necromancer_(3.5e_Class)

So the question is where would he learn the new knowledge that entails an entire new class. II guess he could stick with sorcerer and pick up spells, i'll speak with him about it.

Raising the dead or experimenting on the dead is illegal, and most spellcasters see anything involving dead as taboo. And he wants to pretty exclusively raise the dead. A patron would be fine, but I'm trying to figure out a way to do it secretly, since the party involves a druid and barbarian who at this point aren't too undead-friendly. any sources or examples of something like a holocron from the star wars universe? Or something that would allow him to communicate secretly?

and for blindess, what about non-raw choices? He wants the blindness for eccentric purposes.. so i might make a concession if it doesn't unbalance his character too badly..

[Sir Chuckles]

Well he was planning on starting Sorcerer, and cross classing into a necromancer via: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Necromancer_(3.5e_Class)

So the question is where would he learn the new knowledge that entails an entire new class. II guess he could stick with sorcerer and pick up spells, i'll speak with him about it.

Raising the dead or experimenting on the dead is illegal, and most spellcasters see anything involving dead as taboo. And he wants to pretty exclusively raise the dead. A patron would be fine, but I'm trying to figure out a way to do it secretly, since the party involves a druid and barbarian who at this point aren't too undead-friendly. any sources or examples of something like a holocron from the star wars universe? Or something that would allow him to communicate secretly?

and for blindess, what about non-raw choices? He wants the blindness for eccentric purposes.. so i might make a concession if it doesn't unbalance his character too badly..

A huge warning about the dandwiki:
Much of it is homebrew. All (most?) of it is unregulated. The link you posted is a homebrew class. There is a base class in the Heroes of Horror called the Dread Necromancer that would be better.
However, you don't actually need to cross class to be a Necromancer via Sorcerer. The entire school of Necromancy is available to him.
Necromancy, in and of itself as a school, isn't all about the dead. Obligatory SRD link. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicOverview/spellDescriptions.htm#necromancy)

But, he wants to play with dead bodies in a world where it's illegal. Not that uncommon, and as a Sorcerer, he just has to think about it really hard at the right level and it'll *poof* magic happens. No big dusty underground sepulcher of doom needed.

If you want the secret, it could be done in more ways than this thread could handle. I'll go with "Wizard casts Message." Sending also works. Image. An Arcane Mark that only he can see (entirely possible with Detect Magic). Great Image. A paper airplane. A rock with a note tied to it at the bottom of his drink. Half a dozen spells involving dreams.

[Windstorm]

There actually is a holocron-esque item, spell prisms (alternate consumable type) from complete arcane. The problem is they're quite useless to a blind character.

Honestly for non-raw blind sense type things, you could give him the blind sense type effect, just don't give it the same level of accuracy and infallibility a true blind sense item grants.

[Godskook]

Well he was planning on starting Sorcerer, and cross classing into a necromancer via: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Necromancer_(3.5e_Class)

1.You seem very new to DMing, to the point where I'd *HEAVILY* caution against homebrew from that website.

2.Generally speaking, cross-classing casters makes them weaker overall, as well as a specialty necromancer class making him basically *ONLY* do stuff that's going to get him into trouble. Having him go full-blown Sorcerer is going to smooth out gameplay at various levels as well as prevent headaches from imbalanced content.

3.Specifically to an earlier point, that homebrew class is basically *ONLY* about doing things that piss off your setting. Very two-dimensional as a champion, despite having a lot of power. Levels in that class are either going to feel extremely potent due to his minions or extremely boring due to social pressure not to use the powers it gives. Either way, its either cause you or him a headache in terms of running sessions.

4.My knee-jerk is that the class does not look balanced, and one example is Master of Atrocities, which allows him to replicate the power of a lvl 8 spell at lvl 10, via creating really potent low-CR undeads. Other various redflags abound, too, but given that everything keys off undead creation, its difficult to chase down how potent these effects are from a simple reading.


Raising the dead or experimenting on the dead is illegal, and most spellcasters see anything involving dead as taboo. And he wants to pretty exclusively raise the dead. A patron would be fine, but I'm trying to figure out a way to do it secretly, since the party involves a druid and barbarian who at this point aren't too undead-friendly. any sources or examples of something like a holocron from the star wars universe? Or something that would allow him to communicate secretly?

I'm telling you, Rilian(the fat guy, he's undercover during that story arc) would do well in your world. (http://www.dominic-deegan.com/view.php?date=2008-06-27)

[docnessuno]

Well he was planning on starting Sorcerer, and cross classing into a necromancer via: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Necromancer_(3.5e_Class)

Friends don't let friends use dandwiki.

I would suggest you to take a look at the Dread Necromancer class (wich is actually official, well balanced and very flavorful).

[Nagukuk]

I'm sure he thinks the blind sorcerer is a cool cool idea, but making/allowing him to be blind, then finding some way to circumvent the fact that he is blind and is MUCH more of a hinderance to have around than he is worth, (How does he target his spells, what happens the first time the party has to "run away") kind of cheapens the perceived coolness.

If you are looking for ways to make him not be blind, try ...

Asking him not to be blind ... unless you and all the other players think it is a cool idea too then give it a go ... why not.

He could be like Daredevil with magic item assistance.


But, Ill say this in comparison-
Many people think it would be cool to play a vampire in this game, until they find out how uncool it actually is. (the penalty more than often out weighs the bonus/cool factor)

[SliceandDiceKid]

I'm setting up a game, my first time GMing, with all new rpgers. My roommate wants to play a blind sorcerer that later becomes a necromancer. First, what item/skill/whatever can we give him so he is not completely useless due to blindness. He will be chaotic neutral where the rest of the party is some form of good.
Next, necromancy is illegal throughout the land, so any good ideas on how he would learn this art? I originally intended to give him a tome he could learn out of himself, but if hes blind that really doesn't help. He needs to learn it without the rest of the party knowing. He suggested maybe communicating with spirits but idk where any rules would be for that kind of thing.

any thoughts/suggestions on setting this up?

Braille necromancy tome. You're welcome. Allow him to have a seeing eye dog as a familiar. Just make it a toy [choice breed here] so it can have similar attributes to wiz familiars. Train it to tug the leash in the direction of the closest hostile unit. That way it isn't like he can see and function, (since blindness is a HUGE obstacle that you shouldn't simply write off at some point) but he serves some purpose. So like grant him the ability to determine where the dog is pointing. Explain that it's a short leash so it's within 5'.


:)

[SliceandDiceKid]

Well he was planning on starting Sorcerer, and cross classing into a necromancer via: http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/Necromancer_(3.5e_Class)

So the question is where would he learn the new knowledge that entails an entire new class. II guess he could stick with sorcerer and pick up spells, i'll speak with him about it.

Raising the dead or experimenting on the dead is illegal, and most spellcasters see anything involving dead as taboo. And he wants to pretty exclusively raise the dead. A patron would be fine, but I'm trying to figure out a way to do it secretly, since the party involves a druid and barbarian who at this point aren't too undead-friendly. any sources or examples of something like a holocron from the star wars universe? Or something that would allow him to communicate secretly?

and for blindess, what about non-raw choices? He wants the blindness for eccentric purposes.. so i might make a concession if it doesn't unbalance his character too badly..


Is he gaining a bonus to compensate for the blindness? If not, you might consider granting him a supernatural inborn ability. Perhaps he raises the dead without exhibiting any signs of doing so (example: he performs a spell but isn't facing the body he is raising, or the corpse rises a reasonably deniable distance away, but you narrate to the rest of the party that the corpse seems to pose no threat to them. Perhaps it even somewhat comically grins and waves to them, signifying positive intentions towards them). Maybe when he casts spells, people cannot perceive his precise actions without a spot check dc based on his lvl+cha+x. I would call this "do unto others"

He doesn't see them do things; they can't see him do things. I thought it was clever...

[drewdp]

@godskook, others, I told him He can't use the class from the website. I didn't really look at it too hard so thanks for letting me know it was homebrew.
@docnessuno What book is the dread necromancer in?
@sliceanddicekid I like the seeing eye dog familiar. This might be a good solution that keeps the comedic intent he has, and allows him to actually attack the right people. Although I'm still expecting a fireball to go the wrong way fizban (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paladine)style.

@sliceanddicekid (again) I'll think about what bonuses he could have. Accidental raising of the dead could be humerous, but overall a detrement for the party, as it would set off a lot of panic if he happened to walk by a graveyard in a city.. It would end up with a manhunt for the culprit.

I like the thought about people not being able to see him do things, since he cant see them. Perhaps that or something involving natural invisibility that malfunctions.. (hes very into having big power, that works some of the time.) So maybe he goes invisible like he intends, maybe a one leg dissapears, maybe he only manages to make his head disappear. idk. I'll speak with him about it, and read up more on casting rules before we make his character. Good ideas though

thank you everyone for your input.

[docnessuno]

Dread Necromancer is from Heroes of Horror

[Perturbulent]

If you are ok with other sources I'd suggest just porting back the Oracle from Pathfinder. The clouded vision curse is exactly right, and then i'd suggest the juju mystery. I did it once, it's a pretty cool thing.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/oracle
If you are interested in being fully blind I'd simply advise that you advance the benefits side of cloud vision and allow it. Juju allows raising of zombies that don't detect as zombie quite right and aren't necessarily evil.
For the advanced clouded to blind, i'd suggest dropping him blindsense 30 at 1, blindsense 60 at 5, blindsight 5 at 10, blindsight 15 at 15, and blindsight 30 at 20.

[SliceandDiceKid]

Oh I didn't intend to make it unintentional raising of the dead by any means. I'd think that would qualify him as satan spawn. Glad you like the dog idea,but even then there yould be a penalty to hit.

As for the unseen casting, I wouldn't grant him invisibility. If you are familiar with doctor who, one of my favorite ideas in the show was a perception filter. It's not that you can't see it if you know to look, but it makes you not want to see it. You overlook enough of the details to not truly see what is going on. He is still there and he is still performing the actions, but a supernatural ability causes people to slightly divert their gaze. Just clarifying the suggested concept. Glad you seemed to like the ideas. :)


Also, you should occasionally say he trips and have him make balance checks for walking in forests, cobblestone streets, stairs, etc.

[Perturbulent]

Inspired by the idea of a seeing-eye dog, I want to make a blind gnome now who has an incredible handle animal check who has trained barrelsful of mice to be his eyes, as they could scurry about the whole battlefield, be easy to replace, easy to train (low hd), and he could speak to them as gnomes can speak to burrowing mammals.
He could just use area of effect magics and similar to avoid the need to target a person.

Snap: I didn't realize it was only 1/day they could speak with burrowing mammals. I remembered it differently.

[Taffimai]

For the blindness, he could make spot checks (representing his hearing) with Int modifier to locate things, and train his familiar to fly over enemies and signal (with whatever sound the familiar can make) so he can target them. I'd make the spot DC depend on the size of the enemy and the presence of interfering sounds.

If you really like your tome idea (and to help your character with scrolls), you could invent a cantrip that reads text aloud, say 1 minute of reading per level.

[Godskook]

Did you read up on Rilian?

[drewdp]

Did you read up on Rilian?

I read the first couple pages that were about necromancy and sent the link to my friend. I'll probably read more later, its definitely a good link.