CR vs CR

[Max Caysey]

Question...

Is it true that a CR 20 can defeat two CR 18, 4 CR 16, 8 CR 14, 16 CR 12, 32 CR 10..... ect. Or

a CR 10 can defeat two CR 8, 4 CR 6, 8 CR 4...

Im not talking individual monsters, or taking into account various abilities, but just asking on the CR system?

I believe I've read something like this, back in the day...

ANy comments would be helpful... thanks

[hymer]

Two CR 18s are an encounter level 20 fight. One CR 20 is an encounter level 20 fight.
Every time you double the number of beings of a given CR, they jump up two in encounter level. So four CR16s are an encounter level 20 too, and eight CR 14s as well.

All this, of course, is rather fallible, but these are the rules.

[Brookshw]

Theoretically maybe but CR's kinda borked to begin with. I know you don't want specifics but not all things of equal CR are effectively equally. Plus there are the really broken creatures for their CR (looking at you adamantine horror). I'd lean towards "No".

[Dr. Cliché]

The other aspect is that CR is based on the monster being a challenge to players who, in the designer's mind at least, tend to have few immunities.

So, for example, a CR20 monster based around poison, energy-/ability-drain, mind affecting or the like may run into severe difficulties against a CR18 Undead.

Basically, I think you'd have to look at the encounters on an individual basis.

[Chronos]

The ultimate example of "it varies" is that the CR 20 Tarrasque falls to the CR 3 Allip ten times out of ten. Yes, part of this is that the Tarrasque is easier than it should be for its CR and the Allip is harder than it should be, but the biggest thing is that T's many immunities don't match up to what the Allip does, but the Allip's immunities do match up to what T does. Even if you adjusted them to about where they should be, say CR 15 for Big T and 5 for the allip, it'd still look like a huge upset.

[Max Caysey]

Two CR 18s are an encounter level 20 fight. One CR 20 is an encounter level 20 fight.
Every time you double the number of beings of a given CR, they jump up two in encounter level. So four CR16s are an encounter level 20 too, and eight CR 14s as well.

All this, of course, is rather fallible, but these are the rules.

How does one go about calculating encounter level?

Lets say we have a platoon (40) of level 4 figthers, And I want to know roughtly on the numbers how they will fair agains a platoon (40) of orcs? Or somthing similar.

How would I calculate the outcome? Without having to roll hundreds of dice?

[Darazel]

How does one go about calculating encounter level?

Lets say we have a platoon (40) of level 4 figthers, And I want to know roughtly on the numbers how they will fair agains a platoon (40) of orcs? Or somthing similar.

How would I calculate the outcome? Without having to roll hundreds of dice?

I do not think that you will find hard rules for this... at least not within core. Maybe in Heroes of Battle, but I can not remember something from the top of my head. Apply common sense. If you use orcs straight from the Monster Manual, the fighters will certainly win. Estimate losses based on relative strength and circumstances.

I would not bother with dice for this.

[Eldan]

How does one go about calculating encounter level?

Lets say we have a platoon (40) of level 4 figthers, And I want to know roughtly on the numbers how they will fair agains a platoon (40) of orcs? Or somthing similar.

How would I calculate the outcome? Without having to roll hundreds of dice?

The rules are very loose, of course, as ECL and CR are borked in the first place. But the basic rule is that double the number = CR +2.

Which is a bit of a joke, of course.

40 Level 4 fighters? Let's say 32, so we can calculate it more easily.

1 is ECL 4. 2 are 6, 4 are 8, 8 are 10, 16 are 12, 32 are 14.

Which is a joke, of course.

[hymer]

@ Eldan: No doubt the CR system is rather borked, but not as badly as your example indicates. Anyone above level 11 would get no XP for that encounter, for example.

[hellmonkeyd2]

barring cheese (eg. Assuming the monster in question isn't being exploitive), a good buddy of mine came up with a quick rule of thumb CR method.

The method is based off of doubling. every time you double the number of creatures of a specific CR the CR increased by 1. so 2 CR 1s are a CR 2, 4 CR 1s are a CR 3, 8 CR 1s are a CR 4, 16 CR 1s are a CR 5, 32 CR 1s are a CR 6, ad infinitum.

Another example: lets assume you have two CR 2s a CR3 and a CR 4 in a fight, this would qualify for a CR 5 encounter.

I am not saying this system is infallible, but it is a fast and dirty method of deriving Challenge Rating for an encounter for Low OP and Mid Op game if you play your monsters right. High Op games throw the CR system out the freaking window.

[SinsI]

Question...

Is it true that a CR 20 can defeat two CR 18, 4 CR 16, 8 CR 14, 16 CR 12, 32 CR 10..... ect.

No. CR describes the level of challenge to a player party, not who is stronger amongst the monsters. The encounters you described are supposed to have the same ECL for the players.

[Urpriest]

How does one go about calculating encounter level?

Lets say we have a platoon (40) of level 4 figthers, And I want to know roughtly on the numbers how they will fair agains a platoon (40) of orcs? Or somthing similar.

How would I calculate the outcome? Without having to roll hundreds of dice?

That has nothing to do with Encounter Level. Encounter Level is for PCs fighting plausible challenges (read: challenges the game can model well). Once you pass 12 opponents or so you're not in a combat encounter, you're either not challenging the PCs at all or it's a puzzle of some sort.

Basically, CR is about what ECL the PCs should be to fight the creature in question. If you want to figure out how often non-PC creatures should be able to defeat other non-PC creatures, you need to simulate it.