+2 template for a changling druid (3.5)

[lytokk]

so, in the game I'm running, all of the PC's are getting a +2 LA template for free. They're starting to unlock them currently. The problem is, my wife recently joined the game as a changeling druid, and I have no clue what to give them. I tried to base them off of personality, motives and backstory, but my wife seems to be a little less than interested in setting these up. What we've got so far is

Halfling rogue - werebird, without the animal HD
Halfling bard - shadow creature, without the alignment restriction
half-elf sorceror - half-nymph
human psychic warrior - phrenic
human/half-elf cleric (died as human, reincarnated as half-elf) - slightly modified aasimar template to bring it up to +2.

I know some of these are inherited templates, but rule 0 is a powerful thing.

Either way, I can't think of anything for my wife, maybe something to expand upon her shapechanging, but I've looked through all of my books and can find nothing. Any help is appreciated.

[morkendi]

Feral is +1 but better than a good amont of higher templates. Fits with druid in my opinion through the stat mods are combat oriented. I played a feral druid before, it was very fun.

[ZamielVanWeber]

The challenge here is to find a good +2 template that gives mental stats, since she can just Wildshape away the physical.

Phrenic is already taken.
Saint is an exceptional +2 template with all sorts of restrictions.
Winged is spiffy, but is again overwritten by wildshape.

I will add more as I think of them.

[lytokk]

Oh. Forgot to mention. Her alignment is neutral good. If that helps at all. The federal template is in savage species right? Would the template carry over into wild shape makin the animal forms more powerful

[ZamielVanWeber]

The problem with templating a druid is that the physical stats would be overwritten in wildshape form.

[lytokk]

Pretty much the issue I've run into. Perhaps something a little different. Maybe changing the way wild shape works. MAybe more in line with lycanthrope shape change. Where you add the ability modifiers of creatures instead of picking them up. I really have no clue where to go.

[Telonius]

This is from a Green Ronin 3.0 splatbook ("Bastards and Bloodlines") but how about Spring Child? It's a +2 template with bonuses to Wisdom and Charisma. The fluff is that it's the descendant of a Dryad and a humanoid.

[lytokk]

would be worth a look but I can pretty much guarantee I don't have the book, also a second half-fey in the party? Not to mention the changeling. Half-elf to half nymph works in my mind, at least with the way the sorceress had fluffed her "elven" mother not wanting to live in the city and having to be in the forest. But if I could find it online I'd be more than willing to look at it, just its probably copyrighted.

[Dread_Head]

Saint would be great on a Druid if they meet all the prerequisites for it. Otherwise I'd suggest Half-Fey (FF) for a variety of nice boosts including some lovely SLA's.

[lytokk]

and of course now is the point where I actually find the half-doppelganger template from dragon mag... still seems a little weak for a +2 la...

[lytokk]

So my wife, the player, just told me her motivation is to heal the land of the unnatural corruption spreading through it. I was thinking of giving her the benefits of level 1 Master of many forms, kinda fits her changeling background to expand upon her shapeshifting abilities, but not sure what to do with healing the land.

[Rebel7284]

There is the divine minion template. Allows the user to wildshape as an 11th level druid, but only into certain forms, and may stack with druid wildshape. Don't remember all details.

Both Feral and Half-Minotaur from dragon give +2 Wis, which is nice, but the other mental skills take large hits.

Half Nymph is nice.

Saint is amazing, but carries some pretty serious roleplaying implications and requires some number of Exalted Feats as a prereq.

[lytokk]

Where does divine minion come from? with work I can always rework it to be some sort of Nature's Minion.

Looked up Feral, and if I did that, I would just give it as a bonus to any animal form she took.

Saint has waay too many RP pre-reqs to it

Already have a half nymph in the party.

[CyberThread]

Meh your already tier 1, lets go with something wierd, as your table is already going OP with a generous DM.



Dustform, from sandstorm, ask the DM to remove the Int -- status.


Your chanegeling abilities, can make you seem human instead of something made out of sand.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Mulhorandi Divine minion is on a wizard's online supplement.

[Immabozo]

So my wife, the player, just told me her motivation is to heal the land of the unnatural corruption spreading through it. I was thinking of giving her the benefits of level 1 Master of many forms, kinda fits her changeling background to expand upon her shapeshifting abilities, but not sure what to do with healing the land.

Instead of MMoF, give her the first level of Nature's Warrior, it is a fantastic class, gives nice wildshaping bonuses and gets better if she commits to it and takes more levels.

As an option, Fist of the Forest could work, just rule that it stacks with wildshape and you could be good to go, however, con to AC (I think thats a level 1, maybe 2?) can get a little nutty with wildshape.

[lytokk]

Meh your already tier 1, lets go with something wierd, as your table is already going OP with a generous DM.



Dustform, from sandstorm, ask the DM to remove the Int -- status.


Your chanegeling abilities, can make you seem human instead of something made out of sand.

I can't decide if you're saying I'm being too generous with this idea to the point of my own detriment or if you're saying I'm doing a good job.

Anyway, will have to check out Dustform, sort of a changeling made of earth as opposed to flesh. Could work.

[morkendi]

The feral template gives things like pounce and rend as well depending on hd. Some forms have this already, but these should carry over to things that dont have it as well.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Divine Minion (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20050209a), but be careful. It makes Wild Shape into a free action, makes it usable at-will (which still heals every time it's used), and adds 11 levels of Druid to your Wild Shape ability for purposes of duration and max HD. Since it has the same name as the class feature, the character would be able to take the form of any creatures that would normally be accessible, plus those granted by the template, again with +11 levels for duration and max HD, and usable at will.

Edit: If that's too good, maybe go with something like (modified) Quasilycanthrope (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/mb/20040721a) (there are some splendid spells at that link as well), or two levels of the Half-Water Elemental template class. Half-Elemental is in Manual of the Planes, the template classes are in Dragon 326 page 87. They should follow the rules for gaining a template midcampaign (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/sp/20030824a), particularly that you don't have to finish taking every level of the template class.

[boxfox]

Hi, lytokk.

It sounds like you're wife is playing in a less-than-serious manner. There's nothing wrong with that, and it can still be fun, but it does mean that she'll perceive things differently from your typical D&D adventurer. For instance, she seems uninterested in the details and rules behind the game...maybe she is more interested in action or the storyline.
This also probably means that she's not interested in digging through all 5 Monster Manuals (and splat books) to find the "best form" for every situation, so giving her something that allows for more forms will probably just make her frustrated. I recommend homebrewing a template. It's easy and fun. Like you said, rule 0...also, you know your group better than we ever could.

Here's something I whipped up quick that I think she might like.

CREATING A VINDICATOR CREATURE
“Vindicator” is an acquired template that can be added to any corporeal humanoid or monstrous humanoid (referred to hereafter as the base creature). A vindicator creature has all of the base creature’s characteristics except as noted here.
Size and Type: Same as base creature.
Hit Dice: Unchanged in base form. While using wildshape to change into another creature, however, add 3 temporary hit points to the creatures maximum for each hit die of the form they take. (For example, a player who wildshapes into a black bear would gain 9 (3*3HD) temporary hit points for the duration of the wildshape.
AC: Increase natural armor by +2 (This affects all forms). Nature’s vindicators have toughened skin.
Damage: During wildshapes, a vindicator’s natural attacks are treated as 1 category bigger than they usually are. (This results in a damage increase. See table 4-3: Increased Damage By Size, page 291, Monster Manual)
Special Qualities:
Assume Supernatural Ability-This ability is treated just like the feat (Savage Species, page 30), except that it applies to a new supernatural ability each time the character uses wildshape (or a similar effect). Thus, a vindicator could assume a breath weapon for one form, and then a gaze attack for her next form.
(NOTE TO DM: If the character never learns forms other than core druid wildshape, this will be pretty boring.)
Nature’s Vitality-Vindicators cast all spells from the conjuration school of magic as if affected by Metamagic: Empower Spell. (This covers healing, summoning, and a few other affects…very fun if she gets sick of wildshape.)
Abilities: +4 Str*, +2 Dex*, +4 Wis, +4 Cha
*Strength and Dexterity bonuses only apply while wildshaped.
LA: +2

Anyway, modify as desired and enjoy! :)

[Zweisteine]

The Saint template is one of the best out there.

This (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=7044) tier system might ocme in handy, but it doesn't come close to covering every template, and isn't usually a thing that people talk about (but it looks pretty accurate to me).

Can you split the LA among templates?

Can you have partial templates (2 levels in a template class from the savage progressions articles)?

[lytokk]

My wife's a casual gamer for sure when it comes to this, or anything really. She decided to join the group mostly to get out of the house and spend time with friends. That being said, she is taking an effort to learn the game as much as she can. When she picked druid, I told her it was a little more of an advanced class with all the mechanics associated with it, but she's picking up on it pretty well. For the first 2 sessions I let her get by without preparing spells (with the groups approval of course), and she's just about to pick up wild shape, so we'll see how bad it gets at that point.

Yes, I'd allow 2 different +1 templates.

box, I take it you do a bit of homebrew to have come up with that so fast. It looks good, but its a little bit more bookkeeping than I'd want to spring on her until she got better with Wild Shape. All that said, my current line of thought is some sort of elemental template, sort of like "Mother Nature". I was thinking about giving her domains, like a cleric, only it would be the Plant and Earth domain or maybe choosing 2 domains out of the classic set of elements, getting to choose 1 spell out of the 2 of those to prepare per day per spell level she can cast. All of those are going to be spells she could cast anyway, but now maybe a little earlier and they'll be extra on top of what she already has. That would be worth what, +.5 LA?

I really appreciate all of the help you are all giving me with this. Everyone else's templates were easy out of the book. Its only hers and her motives that's giving me problems.

I've always wanted to do something like this in a game, giving out powers that really separate the PCs from NPCs. Keeping it at about a +2 has just become a rule of thumb.

[Biffoniacus_Furiou]

Maybe use Woodling in MM3, but take away the spell-like abilities and reduce the LA to +2.

[lytokk]

Woodlimg actually looks like a really good starting point. Would MRE then likely want to drop that natural armor to about a plus three or four remove the spell like and maybe put in a choice of the water earth or plant domain spells.

Im no good with homebrew so I can't begin to judge of this is balanced against the other templates

[Seffbasilisk]

Mineral Warrior (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20031003e) is only LA +1, but if you have it apply (or the option to apply) to her wildshape forms, I could easily see it bumped up to +2 [if not higher.]

The Wis penalty would be a huge turn-off if she's a powergamer, but as a casual, the 'Living stone' aspect and DR could be cool to play with.

[boxfox]

Just read Woodling. Honestly, I cannot figure out WHY that template is a +3....
Natural armor- high, I'd certainly bring that down a bit...4 is good for a +2.
Attacks-give you nothing.
Full attack-same
Damage-same
Spell-like abilities-all spells that she can already cast whenever she wants anyway...gives you nothing.
Special qualities-damage reduction 5/slashing is nifty at low levels, makes you feel good against a few bad guys here or there. Not really powerful. Swords and axes are probably the most common weapons in the universe, not to mention Bites and Claws are also slashing damage! So all in all really lack-luster.
Low-Light Vision-useful, but already has access to it at level 1 if you allow Faerun books ( http://dndtools.eu/spells/magic-of-faerun--20/low-light-vision--1771/ )
Plant Traits-NOW WE'RE TALKIN! :D
Immunity to poison (already gets at level 9)
Immunity to magic sleep effects (Useful if you use them!)
Immunity to mind-affecting spells and abilities (Awesome)
Cannot be hit with Criticals (Awesome)
Skill bonuses-spells she already has make these pretty useless
Vulnerability to fire-ouch! most common energy type in game!

This template is next to useless on a druid. It's mostly for animals and whatnot to make them more powerful.

To answer your other question, Coming up with new classes/races/spells is the most fun part of D&D for me. :) As long as I'm not trying to come up with something for the character that I'm going to or currently playing....cuz then I tend to sneak in lots of bonuses. :P


my current line of thought is some sort of elemental template/QUOTE]
Challenge Accepted!
Darkvision 60ft.
Immunity to poison, sleep, paralysis, and stunning
Not subject to critical hits or flanking
Does not need to eat, sleep, or breath (Though still needs to focus for an hour in the morning to replenish spells)
+4 Natural Armor
25% Immunity to Acid, Cold, Electricity, and Fire
Gains the following abilities 1/day: Whirlwind, Earth Glide, Burn, and Vortex. These abilities work exactly like those of an elemental of the player's size (monster manual, starts on page 95). You may need to tweak the rules a bit to fit a player, but it's fine.
+2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma

Now the player is a quasielemental! Of all elements and none!

[QUOTE]I was thinking about giving her domains, like a cleric, only it would be the Plant and Earth domain or maybe choosing 2 domains out of the classic set of elements, getting to choose 1 spell out of the 2 of those to prepare per day per spell level she can cast. All of those are going to be spells she could cast anyway, but now maybe a little earlier and they'll be extra on top of what she already has. That would be worth what, +.5 LA
Giving her a few domains won't help much. Most of the spells won't even come earlier. The domain powers could be helpful, but not a ton. By themselves (for this player specifically), I'd say + 0.5 is about exactly right.

[lytokk]

To answer your other question, Coming up with new classes/races/spells is the most fun part of D&D for me. :) As long as I'm not trying to come up with something for the character that I'm going to or currently playing....cuz then I tend to sneak in lots of bonuses. :P

Challenge Accepted!
Darkvision 60ft.
Immunity to poison, sleep, paralysis, and stunning
Not subject to critical hits or flanking
Does not need to eat, sleep, or breath (Though still needs to focus for an hour in the morning to replenish spells)
+4 Natural Armor
25% Immunity to Acid, Cold, Electricity, and Fire
Gains the following abilities 1/day: Whirlwind, Earth Glide, Burn, and Vortex. These abilities work exactly like those of an elemental of the player's size (monster manual, starts on page 95). You may need to tweak the rules a bit to fit a player, but it's fine.
+2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma

Now the player is a quasielemental! Of all elements and none!



Box, I have to say, you are a god amongst homebrewers. This looks like something she would love, and really fits into the elemental concept I had. A couple thoughts I have on changes, just to see if you think it still fits in the +2 range.

Removing the immunity to sleep and replacing it with a +2 to resist magical sleep effects. With her will save through the roof already its practically immunity, but it gives me, as the DM a method of taking her out for a little while just in case I have to.

I would want to keep the need for food, just a different way of being able to eat. Can consume embers from a fire, dirt and rocks, basic elemental things. Practically an immunity to needing food, but it could come up when she has access to none of these. I don't know how, but it could.

Remove the immunity to flanking and critical hits, and instead give her light fortification, as a warforged would have.

Remove the 25% immunity to acid, since there's no such thing as an acid elemental, but the rest of them fit in my mind of what could or should be normal elemental immunities.

Even though she doesn't need to sleep, as a caster she'll still need 8 hours of rest in order to prepare new spells, I think warforged have that limitation as well, and they're the only playable race I know of that doesn't ever sleep. Granted rest could be something as simple as looking at the stars, downtime to rest your mind, or picking up a craft skill. If someone created a magical gameboy that would also work.

Once I read the special abilities, all I could imagine was a tornado of flaming debris.

Seriously, thank you for the help on this quasi-elemental. I'm so bad when it comes to balance I second guess myself into oblivion when trying to make things myself without an actual rule-book in front of me.

[boxfox]

I'm so bad when it comes to balance...QUOTE]
I disagree. Honestly, the changes you've mentioned are not only balanced, but really great for flavor. I think they're better than the suggestions I made. In fact, most (if not all) of the suggestions you've made in this thread have been really good!

[QUOTE]Remove the 25% immunity to acid, since there's no such thing as an acid elemental, but the rest of them fit in my mind of what could or should be normal elemental immunities.
I only added acid for the Earth elemental variety...Air elementals get electric, fire gets fire, water gets cold...earth and acid are often lumped together...the only other option is sonic...which is just weird. :P

Anywho, I'd take your changes and run with them...they sound great! Still sounds like a +2LA...or so close that it won't matter. Really, she doesn't seem to care about power so much as flavor, and this is rich. :D

[lytokk]

I figured the earth elemental is where the AC boost came from. Each of them thematically entering their own type of resistance. Perhaps an actual DR would be more appropriate. Dr 5/-. Either way, thank you very much for helping me with this. I'm pretty sure she's going to love this template.

[boxfox]

:)
I was thinking, you should probably remove the 25% immunities and put in elemental resistance to 10 or 15 for each element instead. It's more supported by the rule books.
Also, using the DR 5/(fire/cold/electric) would be good replacement for acid. Then it's: prevent 5 damage from any source that is not already being prevented with the elemental resistances.

[ZamielVanWeber]

Even though she doesn't need to sleep, as a caster she'll still need 8 hours of rest in order to prepare new spells, I think warforged have that limitation as well, and they're the only playable race I know of that doesn't ever sleep. Granted rest could be something as simple as looking at the stars, downtime to rest your mind, or picking up a craft skill. If someone created a magical gameboy that would also work.

Two things:
1) Only Arcane casters need 8 hours of rest. Divine just need to try to avoid casting within 8 hours of the spell reclamation time
2) Neraph neither eat nor sleep and are a playable race.

And I just saw Boxfox'st so I will respond here:
Dr/fire is still bypassed by cold damage. Elemental damage always bypasses DR.
Instead give resistance (acid/cold/electricity/fire) [yes, acid counts for earth] 5, and DR 5/bludgeoning. She is slightly more homogenized than normal people, so pointer weapons do not work as well.

[lytokk]

Two things:
1) Only Arcane casters need 8 hours of rest. Divine just need to try to avoid casting within 8 hours of the spell reclamation time
2) Neraph neither eat nor sleep and are a playable race.

And I just saw Boxfox'st so I will respond here:
Dr/fire is still bypassed by cold damage. Elemental damage always bypasses DR.
Instead give resistance (acid/cold/electricity/fire) [yes, acid counts for earth] 5, and DR 5/bludgeoning. She is slightly more homogenized than normal people, so pointer weapons do not work as well.

and now I know of a second race that doesn't eat or sleep. Thank you.

Also, thank you for pointing out that divine casters don't really need the rest. Its always the little rules about casting that get me, since I more often than not went martial while playing, and ended up having the DM role thrust upon me.

with the dr 5, do you think I should drop the Nat AC bonus down from 4 to 2 to try and keep it in line with a +2 adjustment, or fine as is?

[ZamielVanWeber]

As a +2 template +4 seems fine to me.

[lytokk]

Thanks for the help. In regards to the burn and earthglide, since those are typically on all the time, 1round/HD sound about fair? or just keep in line with the other abilites, 1 round/2 HD?

[ZamielVanWeber]

I would do round /2. Burn is fine at round/HD, but Earthglide may not be. I am inclined to be UP than OP, particularly since Druid gets fun toys anyways.