How would you DM the party using Mass Reflective Disguise?

[Miss Disaster]

In a recent game session, our very good and very experienced DM sure had a lot of headaches and challenges in trying to figure out how all his monsters and NPCs should properly react to our party of 6 that were currently under a Mass Reflective Disguise spell (6th Level Wiz/Sorc - SpC).

Since we were running into a wide array of weird, rare and hermitic creatures ... it really took a lot of them aback to see 6 more creatures popping into view that were of the same species and gender of itself. It was a real lesson in behavioral social science for everybody at the table. Lol. But mostly so for our DM. Especially since the spell has a 12 hour duration. If anything, it was a fun session, but because it was taking place in a quasi-urban area with very frequent social interactions, it really worked our poor DM something fierce. :-)

Anyway ... I'm curious if any of you have ever used or DM'ed this spell before. And what your experiences were like with it running at the table.

One of the biggest issues it seems to impact is the Surprise Round. There's a lot of subtle nuances to this spell and how each DM would interpret reactions and interactions.

[Beldar]

We haven't used this spell much, since, by the time you can cast it, most of what you will meet (in a combat setting) has little problem making their saving throw versus it.

And even commoners with no save bonus will make their saves at least 5% of the time (when they roll natural 20's). Those making their saves will point out the illusion to others, who then get saves.

The spell says it makes no audio changes, so talking to anything is likely to give you away (unless their vocal apparatus is just like yours - but you mentioned a wide variety of races), since some that hear you will save & inform others.
Even just walking thru a city is also likely to give you away, as you will occasionally bump into passersby, who then get a save, since they realize you are not covered in scales, fur, whatever as they are (in the many-races society you mentioned at least).

But, that said, it sounds like playing as if there is no save versus it, is far more interesting.

The way I would DM it?
If the party had fun, do more of the same.
That is, always work to maximize the fun. That is what we are playing for. The rules are there to give us a framework for it. If they start ruining the fun, they should be thrown out as needed.

So I'd keep letting it work as it did & start thinking thru the various interesting reactions resulting therefrom.

[Miss Disaster]

Remember about the saves for both the single and mass versions of this spell ... creatures viewing Reflectively Disguised creatures need to interact in order to get a save. That usually entails touching the glamoured individual. Creatures with Scent get an automatic save attempt too.

Still, where these spells gain value is in the so-called "hesitation effect" that will likely (and only temporarily) startle a good number of creatures who will be think twice about attacking someone of their own race. The hesitation effect will be even shorter if the monster(s) blindsight, tremorsense or scent give them feedback which doesn't corrolate with what they see in front of them.

Hey, if the spells can reduce/eliminate surprise round disadvantages or induce a higher probability of proactive dialogue ... then it has some significant value to certain parties looking to achieve certain objectives. Which, for 6th level spell (the Mass version), it damn well better. But since the spell runs 12 hours (or 24 if extended), it means a DM has to deal with making possible significant adjustments to the initial phases of all his 3-to-5 combat encounters for the day.

[Nettlekid]

I've never understood how useful this spell could be. If you have two creatures of different species, or same species but a boy and a girl, isn't your cover almost immediately blown in like ten seconds of dialogue when they disagree about what you are?

[Beldar]

Yes, they need to interact to get a save.
But since the spell specifically excludes audio from the disguise, making any sounds (in a strict view) or talking (in a more reasonable view) will give anybody who hears it a save.

That's why I've never bothered to cast it.
If some save, then all around them effectively save, since, once warned that it is an illusion, they will be wary at least.

But if it is working for you, then that's great. More power to you.

[Jeff the Green]

I've never understood how useful this spell could be. If you have two creatures of different species, or same species but a boy and a girl, isn't your cover almost immediately blown in like ten seconds of dialogue when they disagree about what you are?

How many conversations do you have that involve mentioning your interlocutor's species?

"Hi there. Nice to meetcha. I'm Bob."
"Hi Bob. I see that you're a dwarf, just like me. How fortunate for you."

I'd be more worried about gender. Pronouns could trip you up pretty quickly.

[Miss Disaster]

Yes, they need to interact to get a save.
But since the spell specifically excludes audio from the disguise, making any sounds (in a strict view) or talking (in a more reasonable view) will give anybody who hears it a save. As a 6th level spell being cast by an arcanist who knows what she's doing ... that may not be a very big deal to be letting a saving throw attempt occur.

The party should be tactically structured to use the hesitation and confusion on part of the viewing opponent (assuming it/they make their save and can't figure out what the hell the party is) ... as an opportunity to move first, strike first and be on the advantageous side of the upcoming turkey shoot. If the viewing opponent fails their save, there's likely to be even more confusion and hesitation - and possibly more of an opportunity for parlay and diplomacy/bluff/intimidate shenanigans. An ideal pair-up with this spell is if the party is using Rary's Telepathic Bond and keeping quiet. Thereby keeping the audible weakness of the party neutralized for as long as possible all the while having tactical chatter helping the party setup the viewing opponent for some quick and efficient beatdown.


That's why I've never bothered to cast it.
If some save, then all around them effectively save, since, once warned that it is an illusion, they will be wary at least.You're making a lot of assumptions that this spell is all about viewing opponents constantly making their saves and constantly having extraordinary senses that make them sense duplicity and want to attack the party ASAP. That's not a realistic response. Especially since the party can use simple accoutrements to this improve this spell. Like the Ghost Sound cantrip to help the party "sound" in a complimentary way to the way they look. Or Mass Fly, to get the party off the ground if the enemy has Tremorsense that could cause doubt on viewing the party's illusory deception.

A good majority of creatures with any sort of sound survival instincts are going to be very wary to go all-out on an attack against other strangers of the same race who look like themselves .... regardless if their sensory perceptions pick up a possible ruse ... or not.

[TuggyNE]

Yes, they need to interact to get a save.
But since the spell specifically excludes audio from the disguise, making any sounds (in a strict view) or talking (in a more reasonable view) will give anybody who hears it a save.

Wait. They need to interact with the illusion to save. The illusion does not contain audio elements. Thus their automatic interaction with speech … automatically grants a save? Something in this chain of logic is awry.