Fighter builds

[cbarrett76]

Hey Guys,

I'm playing a home brew campaign with some friends. We have 2 fighters, a bard and an invoker. One fighter does awesome damage and is our primary striker. The other fighter is struggling. i was hoping he would be our defender and build up some nice defensive/survival status but he wants to do damage. The problem is he is pretty new to 4E and his build is all over the place. Some feats towards defense, some towards offense and some kind of funky. He is level 5 now and is getting frustrated that he isn't doing a lot of damage.

I want to help by creating a build for him, something to show as a suggestion that will hopefully wow him due to the damage potential and get him to consider using it as a cookie cutter. I know nothing of fighters, I have always played arcane characters. Can you guys recommend something that would do some decent DPR around level 5? His toon is a human fighter. He LOVES to charge, in fact his most recent feat was +4 damage on a charge and he has the at will that can be replaced with a charge (yes i suggested rerolling barbarian, no go). If there was some fighter cheese that could be tied in to charging it would help my case.

Any ideas?

[Epinephrine]

Basic optimization? There is a guide for everyone called "When Everyone is Super" that has some general optimization help. The best few possibilities for charge optimization include:

Using a big damage weapon (Mordenkrad or Gouge, for example)
Getting a way to add more dice to charge (Avalanche Hammer or the Fighter feat Surprising Charge with a light blade or spear (note that the Gouge is a spear/axe, so it fits both))
Using an expertise feat that includes a damage bonus on charges (Two Handed Weapon Expertise, Spear Expertise)
Hewing Charge and a Con investment
Vanguard Weapon
Horned Helm

Those are some easy ones. For a sample level 5 fighter (I'll pick a race, but it can be adapted) here goes:

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Helja, level 5
Dwarf, Fighter (Weaponmaster)
Fighter Option: Combat Superiority
Fighter Talents Option: Two-handed Weapon Talent

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 21, CON 17, DEX 10, INT 10, WIS 11, CHA 8

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 18, CON 14, DEX 10, INT 10, WIS 11, CHA 8


AC: 20 Fort: 20 Ref: 13 Will: 13
HP: 56 Surges: 12 Surge Value: 14

TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +12, Endurance +12, Intimidate +6

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +2, Arcana +2, Bluff +1, Diplomacy +1, Dungeoneering +4, Heal +2, History +2, Insight +2, Nature +2, Perception +2, Religion +2, Stealth +2, Streetwise +1, Thievery +2

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Dwarf Racial Power: Dwarven Resilience
Fighter Attack: Combat Challenge
Fighter Attack 1: Vicious Offensive
Fighter Attack 1: Brash Strike
Fighter Attack 1: Hack and Hew
Fighter Attack 1: Bristling Defense
Fighter Utility 2: Glowering Threat
Fighter Attack 3: Parry and Riposte
Fighter Attack 5: Rain of Steel

FEATS
Level 1: Dwarven Weapon Training
Level 2: Two-Handed Weapon Expertise
Level 4: Hewing Charge

ITEMS
Avalanche Hammer Mordenkrad +1 x1
Magic Scale Armor +1 x1
Horned Helm (heroic tier) x1
Amulet of Protection +1 x1
Bracers of Mighty Striking (heroic tier) x1
====== End ======

Basically, used items to get damage, bought basic +1 armour and necklace.
Damage on a charge is 4d6 (brutal 1)+14+1d6 (I think?) for 33.5 average damage on a hit.

For a very different approach (Dex instead of Con, light armour), here's a bugbear with a Gouge

====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Helja, level 5
Bugbear, Fighter (Weaponmaster)
Fighter Option: Combat Superiority
Fighter Talents Option: Two-handed Weapon Talent

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 21, CON 10, DEX 17, INT 10, WIS 11, CHA 8

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 18, CON 10, DEX 14, INT 10, WIS 11, CHA 8


AC: 19 Fort: 19 Ref: 15 Will: 12
HP: 49 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 12

TRAINED SKILLS
Athletics +11, Endurance +6, Intimidate +8

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +4, Arcana +2, Bluff +1, Diplomacy +1, Dungeoneering +2, Heal +2, History +2, Insight +2, Nature +2, Perception +2, Religion +2, Stealth +6, Streetwise +1, Thievery +4

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Bugbear Racial Power: Predatory Eye
Fighter Attack: Combat Challenge
Fighter Attack 1: Vicious Offensive
Fighter Attack 1: Brash Strike
Fighter Attack 1: Hack and Hew
Fighter Attack 1: Bristling Defense
Fighter Utility 2: Glowering Threat
Fighter Attack 3: Parry and Riposte
Fighter Attack 5: Rain of Steel

FEATS
Level 1: Weapon Proficiency (Gouge)
Level 2: Two-Handed Weapon Expertise
Level 4: Surprising Charge

ITEMS
Vanguard Gouge (Large) +1 x1
Horned Helm (heroic tier) x1
Bestial Hide Armor +1 x1
Bracers of Mighty Striking (heroic tier) x1
====== End ======
I think his charge (provided he has combat advantage) deals 4d8+9+1d8+1d6, or ~35 damage.

[Juzer]

...actually, first suggestion to have a damage-dealing fighter is to use another class and call it in-game "the fighter-guy":
thinking about martial classes, rogues and rangers are the striker he probably wants

whereas, if he likes to remain a proper fighter class, even if there's already one in the party and he, as a noob, should enjoy to try new things and not get stuck with names "because fighters have to fights" (even if their primary job is to aggro enemies and soak damage) I would suggest for a Tempest fighter (martial power 1) with Combat Agility (martial power 2)

in fact tempests deal really pretty good damage and resemble somehow hardened melee rangers, but with average less damage and average better defenses

[Kurald Galain]

Give him a two-weapon ranger, simple as pie. Tell him to twin strike as much as possible.

[Epinephrine]

Another Striker-fighter option is the Slayer. That's his schtick; fighter base, but designed to be an essentials striker. Basically the same as the bugbear build, you want Strength and Dexterity. Slayer gets bonus damage as part of its features, and also gets stances with nice effects (+4 damage against trgets with nobody else beside them, or +2 to hit on charges, etc.) Instead of encounter powers, they get Power Strike (adds damage on a hit).

A basic human Slayer with an avalanche mordenkrad +1
====== Created Using Wizards of the Coast D&D Character Builder ======
Erik, level 5
Human, Fighter (Slayer)
Human Power Selection Option: Heroic Effort
Nelanther Isles (Nelanther Isles Benefit)
Theme: Guardian

FINAL ABILITY SCORES
STR 21, CON 11, DEX 15, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 8

STARTING ABILITY SCORES
STR 18, CON 11, DEX 14, INT 10, WIS 10, CHA 8


AC: 20 Fort: 21 Ref: 18 Will: 14
HP: 50 Surges: 9 Surge Value: 12

TRAINED SKILLS
Acrobatics +10, Athletics +13, Endurance +7, Heal +7

UNTRAINED SKILLS
Arcana +2, Bluff +1, Diplomacy +1, Dungeoneering +2, History +2, Insight +4, Intimidate +1, Nature +2, Perception +4, Religion +2, Stealth +4, Streetwise +1, Thievery +4

POWERS
Basic Attack: Melee Basic Attack
Basic Attack: Ranged Basic Attack
Guardian Attack: Guardian's Counter
Human Racial Power: Heroic Effort
Multiple Class Attack: Power Strike
Fighter Utility: Berserker's Charge
Fighter Utility: Duelist's Assault
Fighter Utility 2: Who's Next?

FEATS
Level 1: Weapon Proficiency (Mordenkrad)
Level 1: Two-Handed Weapon Expertise
Level 2: Disciple of Destruction
Level 4: Superior Reflexes

ITEMS
Avalanche Hammer Mordenkrad +1 x1
Magic Scale Armor +1 x1
Amulet of Protection +1 x1
Horned Helm (heroic tier) x1
Bracers of Mighty Striking (heroic tier) x1
====== End ======
Charging an isolated foe with a basic attack would hit for 4d6(b1)+17+1d6 damage (36.5 average damage), dealing an extra 5 if the attack bloodied his foe. Twice per fight he can Power Strike, choosing to deal an extra 1W (or 2d6(b1)) which bumps it another 8 points to 44.5 average damage on a hit (again, +5 if it bloodies the target, which is likely against standard foes).
He can pretty much drop lurkers or artillery of his level on a charge with a decent roll (they seem to be around the 48-52 HP mark, and his charge with a power strike deals 49.5 average damage), and he at least bloodies anything else.
Slayers do better with axes, so it might be worth swapping over to a Gouge at higher levels, and using a Vanguard weapon with Surprising Charge.
I left him a fighter-type theme (Guardian) because while he doesn't mark, it gives him a way to jump in front of a blow aimed at a teammate, and to then retaliate for it with an MBA (which is very solid from a Slayer - I think his is 2d6(b1)+12, which is a nice off-turn attack)

[Yakk]

Strong fighters who charge is relatively easy. So easy I'll ask "what race is he?"

We might also be able to save their weapon, or their weapon type. What kind of weapon does the character use?

[neonchameleon]

Hey Guys,

I'm playing a home brew campaign with some friends. We have 2 fighters, a bard and an invoker. One fighter does awesome damage and is our primary striker. The other fighter is struggling. i was hoping he would be our defender and build up some nice defensive/survival status but he wants to do damage. The problem is he is pretty new to 4E and his build is all over the place. Some feats towards defense, some towards offense and some kind of funky. He is level 5 now and is getting frustrated that he isn't doing a lot of damage.

I want to help by creating a build for him, something to show as a suggestion that will hopefully wow him due to the damage potential and get him to consider using it as a cookie cutter. I know nothing of fighters, I have always played arcane characters. Can you guys recommend something that would do some decent DPR around level 5? His toon is a human fighter. He LOVES to charge, in fact his most recent feat was +4 damage on a charge and he has the at will that can be replaced with a charge (yes i suggested rerolling barbarian, no go). If there was some fighter cheese that could be tied in to charging it would help my case.

Any ideas?

There's all the charge-cheese you can get.

Simple question given you're in heroic tier. How much does he like faffing around with powers? Some love it, some hate it. Also what does he do now, and what does the other fighter do?

[Rakaydos]

When introducing a 2e player to 4E, (pre essentials), she had a hard time grasping that fighters had options, and kept trying to melee basic things.

So I made her a Battlerager (Crushing Surge/Brash Strike and an 18 con) And gave her a flow chart.

If in melee, Mark your opponent and-
-If you already have temp HP
--Brash Strike
-Else Crushing Surge
If not in melee, move 6, then
-Repeat chart
End Turn

If a marked target moves or attacks someone that isnt you
-Melee basic

[cbarrett76]

Thanks for all the ideas guys. The DM and the other players and I got together and we are going to talk to him this week. I like the slayer idea as it sounds simple for him to play. Two weapon ranger was my original idea but the DM house ruled that twin strike doesnt get any bonuses because he doesnt want someone to come in and cheese that build out and quickly kill everything.

This player refuses to use anything except a broad sword based on flavor of his character so that limits his options a bit. We also thought about an avenger but the idea of him being able to move monsters around terrifies us. He's the type to ruin a flank for his allies because he thinks it would be cool to push a monster around. He is more into the RP aspect than than the combat and his build and play style shows it.

We all decided we are going to build a cleric for him and see if we can get him to take that. Our party is weak on heals and he could keep his overall theme of the character kind of the same. Hoping he goes for it.

[Epinephrine]

This player refuses to use anything except a broad sword based on flavor of his character so that limits his options a bit.

A broadsword? Hard to fix damage problems if he wants to keep a sub-optimal weapon. A Bastard Sword would get a +1 to hit for a feat, and a Longsword or Rapier would trade a point of damage for +1 accuracy, which is a good trade. And if he wants to buff damage, you generally do better with other weapons. Sword and board is not the most effective for damage.


We also thought about an avenger but the idea of him being able to move monsters around terrifies us. He's the type to ruin a flank for his allies because he thinks it would be cool to push a monster around.
Maybe getting him to pick feats and a build that benefits from cooperating is the answer? If he needs the same things (flanks, prone enemies, etc.) he might play better with others.

[Inevitability]

This player refuses to use anything except a broad sword based on flavor of his character so that limits his options a bit.

Tell him that he can pick up a halberd, a fullblade, a greataxe or even a quarterstaff, and just call it a broadsword. Fullblades are not the best, but still a very nice weapon for a charger, they give him the 'sword' bit for free, and qualify for the same support as broadswords. What's the problem?