Hearthstone 4: Taz'dingo Ate my Baby.

[Zevox]

Welcome to fourth GitP thread for Hearthstone. For anyone who doesn't know, Hearthstone is a video card game from Blizzard, based on the Warcraft series. The game is free to play and available here (http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/), so if you're interested, give it a shot. You've got nothing to lose but your free time. :smallwink:

For new players, something to be aware of is that there are a number of hidden "quests" you can complete which will give you free gold, dust, or even a pack. A complete list can be found here (http://www.hearthpwn.com/forums/hearthstone-general/general-discussion/1088-list-of-quests-and-daily-quests-in-hearthstone). Be aware that not quite all of those are ones you'll be able to complete quickly though.

And here is a list of Playgrounders currently in the game, for both NA and EU servers:

GitP UsernameBattle.net ID (US)
aethernox|ethernox#1948
AgentPaperAgentPaper#1193
AmberVaelAmberVael#1225
AntonokAntonok#1704
Aster AzulRosstin#1609
BaelotBaelot#1149
CogwheelOmegaNixon#1123
banthesunbanthesun#1782
Destro YersulDestroYersul#1239
D_LordVolrock#1367
DuosDoctorDapper#1491
Firedaemon33Firedaemon#1846
Fleeing CowardScorch#1432
Gray MageGrayMage#1723
HatevahHatevah#1405
jindra34JinRia #1770
KarohtKaroht#1505
KradeKrade#1266
LegoShrimplegoshrimp#1722
Loreweaver15Loreweaver#1199
MathMageMathMage#1797
mistformsquirrlmistformsqrl#1430
Neon KnightVultureCrook#1434
NerociteJoeKage#1852
nhbdyNohbdy#1927
OlinserOlinser#1393
OnionbreathGiantSquid#1845
SamBurkeSamBurke#1486
TemoteiTemotei#1507
Thanatos 51-50Thanatos5150#1407
TheGlyphstoneGlyphstone#1419
The_JackalTheJackal#1499
TogarthAsparag#1680
Trouble BrewingHairyPoppins#1949
VolatarVolatar#1750
ZeroNumerousZeroNumerous#1913
ZevoxZevox#1522


GitP UsernameBattle.net ID (EU)
AdumbrationAdumbration#2419
Avilan the GreyBeardedgeek#2355
DadaScrattlebear#2863
Fleeing CowardScorch#2452
GandarielCiabatta#2958
Hippie_VikingHippieViking#2866 [/td]
[tr]Infernally ClayWinny#1904
LionheartLionheart#2440
RaddishRaddish#2730
ScionoftheVoidJayPsi#2775
ShinyRocksMoodyTuskarr#2790
SilfirSilfir#2863
VolthawkVolthawk#1214
WeimannWeimann#2716

__________________________________________________ ______________


Also (edit: addressing everyone in this thread), what rank are you and what decks are you facing? Yesterday I powered trough 25 to 13 again, but I ended up facing 40% watchers/pagle/cairne/rag/etc control decks (usually druid), 50% very low cost minions warlocks (I put some hellfires back in as those guy trounce my deck as I have no AOE at all otherwise), and 10% spell/draw/leeroy rogues. Those warlock decks especially are 0 fun to play against.
I believe I'm at 12 now. Last night I faced mostly Aggrolocks, a couple of Faceroll Hunters, and one draw + Ice Block + burn Mage. So, every deck type I hate, basically. Still won something like half of the matches, but win or lose I find them pretty aggravating. I wish I could've gotten some matches with a nice control deck instead...

Re: Balance changes - Well, guess I shouldn't bother saving dust for Tinkmaster Overspark now. Random target plus random transformation is way too unreliable. Maybe two Big Game Hunters for my Druid instead of just one, then? But they'll be useless against most of the typical legendary array except Ragnaros - even Tirion Fordring is out of their target range. Good for Giants, though. Hm...

Nat Pagle I don't really care about one way or the other.

I am a touch disappointed that those are the only balance changes they made, though. I was really hoping for Blizzard's cost to go back down to 5. It really makes no sense for it to be only one mana less than Flamestrike. (Also, a little surprised that they didn't nerf Harvest Golem due to his ubiquity, the way they did for Novice Engineer, Defender of Argus, etc last time.)

[Dada]

I grinded to rank 5 on Saturday encountering mostly Warlock Zoo, Handlock, Shaman Midrange, Watcher Druid and Warrior Control. Some faceroll Hunter too.

[Hatevah]

Howdy folks - back after a long while, and have a warlock draft I'd like help with:


WARLOCK
MIND CONTROL TECH - void terror - gadgetzan auctioneer
BLUEGILL WARRIOR - ironforge rifleman - silverback patriarch
DEMONFIRE - acolyte of pain - lord of the arena
RAZORFEN HUNTER - dread infernal - jungle panther
MAD BOMBER - dread infernal - bluegill warrior
STRANGLETHORN TIGER - mad bomber - soulfire
STORMWIND KNIGHT - gurubashi berserker - magma raider
VOIDWALKER - abusive sergeant - stormwind knight
YOUTHFUL BREWMASTER - abusive sergeant - mogu'shan warden
STAMPEDING KODO - violet teacher - imp master
VOIDWALKER - abusive sergeant - succubus
DARK IRON DWARF - shattered sun cleric - dread corsair
BLOOD IMP - chillwind yeti - drain life
BLOOD IMP - stranglethorn tiger - lord of the arena
FLAME IMP - shadow bolt - power overwhelming
DARK IRON DWARF - loot hoarder - sense demons
SHADOWBOLT - razorfen hunter - stonetusk boar
SILVERHAND KNIGHT - power overwhelming - demonfire
HARVEST GOLEM - soulfire - mad bomber
TINKMASTER OVERSPARK - king murkla - bloodmage thalnos
MURLOC TIDEHUNTER - summoning portal - booty bay bodyguard
ACIDIC SWAMP OOZE - mogu'shan warden - oasis snapjaw
FEN CREEPER - demonfire - silvermoon guardian
ACIDIC SWAMP OOZE - succubus - corruption
DARK IRON DWARF - earthen ring farseer - magma rager
STORMWIND CHAMPION - fen creeper - argent squire
VENTURE CO - darkscale healer - drain life
SPELLBREAKER - frostwolf grunt - priestess of elune
DRAGONLING MECHANIC - oasis snapjaw - voidwalker
SIPHON SOUL - ancient watcher - ravenholdt assassin
0|5|7|5|6|5|1|1
0|5|6|4|6|5|0|1


Looks like it'll have to be a super-fast rush deck-y thing...what did I do wrong here?

[Lighturtle]

Not a fan of demonfire in arena. Would have picked acolyte in this situation.

I don't understand the point of the brewmaster. MCTech twice is useless because they know you have it in hand afterwards.

2 blood imps is too many blood imps. I'd argue 1 blood imp is too many blood imps.

If you are going for early aggression murkla is a great pick. Then again tink is really strong. Your choice there really.

Would have picked summoning portal over tidehunter. Tidehunter is a pile of crap if you don't have synergies with it, which you don't. Portal would help many of your other cards and be good removal bait.

If you plan on aggression ranvehold is a much better finisher than siphon soul, unless there is an ironbark or argused giant in your way.

[Zevox]

Howdy folks - back after a long while, and have a warlock draft I'd like help with:

Looks like it'll have to be a super-fast rush deck-y thing...what did I do wrong here?
Well, for one thing, you put it in a quote block so that we can't get a nice, convenient copy when quoting you :smallwink: .

Anyway though, comments for you:

MIND CONTROL TECH - void terror - gadgetzan auctioneer
I probably would've gone Gadgetzan here. Not a big fan of MCT because I always want to hold him back until I can use his effect, but his effect is very unreliable. Might just be me, though.


RAZORFEN HUNTER - dread infernal - jungle panther
Worst option of the bunch. Jungle Panther is a far superior 3-drop, with stealth making it unlikely that the opponent can prevent it from trading with your target of choice, potentially trading up thanks to its high attack score. Dread Infernal would also have been fine, being decent stats for its cost with a sometimes useful effect. Also, he's a potential target for buffing with Demonfire, albeit not the best generally.

In general, I think this is the only one where you made a truly wrong pick. The rest of mine are either personal preference or arguable.


VOIDWALKER - abusive sergeant - stormwind knight
Not a big Voidwalker fan personally - unless you get to buff him with Demonfire he usually just dies to a 3/2. I'd take Abusive Sergeant. Same with the later pick that had those two but with Succubus instead of Stormwind Knight.


BLOOD IMP - chillwind yeti - drain life
As good as Blood Imp is, Chillwind Yeti is probably the better pick here.


FLAME IMP - shadow bolt - power overwhelming
I'd take Shadow Bolt, though that could just be my preference for the control style showing.

[The_Jackal]

I can't imagine topping out the 100 gold per day limit. It means you've played, at a minimum, 300 games. With a more realistic 50% win rate (which the MMR system is constantly pushing you toward), 600 games. Yeesh. I can barely summon the motivation to clear my quests most days.

[Zevox]

I can't imagine topping out the 100 gold per day limit. It means you've played, at a minimum, 300 games. With a more realistic 50% win rate (which the MMR system is constantly pushing you toward), 600 games. Yeesh. I can barely summon the motivation to clear my quests most days.
:smallconfused: Um, your math is very wrong there. You get 10 gold per 3 wins, not 30, so the minimum to get 100 gold per day outside of quests/arena is 30 games.

[Hatevah]

Well, for one thing, you put it in a quote block so that we can't get a nice, convenient copy when quoting you :smallwink: .



Derp, fixed. Thanks, and sorry about that.




I probably would've gone Gadgetzan here. Not a big fan of MCT because I always want to hold him back until I can use his effect, but his effect is very unreliable. Might just be me, though.

even without any spells? Maybe...MCT hasn't done much for me - and the one time he might have won me the game, i forgot about him. Oh well.



Worst option of the bunch. Jungle Panther is a far superior 3-drop, with stealth making it unlikely that the opponent can prevent it from trading with your target of choice, potentially trading up thanks to its high attack score. Dread Infernal would also have been fine, being decent stats for its cost with a sometimes useful effect. Also, he's a potential target for buffing with Demonfire, albeit not the best generally.
In general, I think this is the only one where you made a truly wrong pick. The rest of mine are either personal preference or arguable.
[/QOUTE]
Yup. He's done nothing to help me, when panther almost certainly would have.

[Quote]
Not a big Voidwalker fan personally - unless you get to buff him with Demonfire he usually just dies to a 3/2. I'd take Abusive Sergeant. Same with the later pick that had those two but with Succubus instead of Stormwind Knight.

He's worked out pretty well so far...not sure I needed both, though. He's solid as a 1, but the gap between 1s and 2s is probably the biggest in the game. Noted for next time.



As good as Blood Imp is, Chillwind Yeti is probably the better pick here.

Yup, probably was - I way overvalued blood imp.

I'd take Shadow Bolt, though that could just be my preference for the control style showing.

Went 4-3, with some very odd wins.
SCIENCE: Eviscrate, 55g, and a pack.

Thanks for the notes, and I'm glad my drafting is less moronic than it was a couple weeks ago :smallsmile:

[Kish]

Derp, fixed. Thanks, and sorry about that.



even without any spells?

It's always a safe bet that you'll have spells in arena, just as it's a safe bet that you'll have minions.

[Hatevah]

[/spoiler]
It's always a safe bet that you'll have spells in arena, just as it's a safe bet that you'll have minions.

I had 3, and I don't think there were any I otherwise should have taken if I take gadget. The potential save with MCT seems (after wrapping up, even) to outweigh the potential draw from gadget - especially as a Warlock, where most of the spells, I think, have drawbacks that make their play less ubiquitous than for any other classes.
Overall, though, I had too many 1s, and not enough oomph to back them up. Noted for next time!

[Krade]

Ahh way too many Fireballs is OP in arena. I got 4.

Turn 4: Fireball to face. Smack with Mana Wyrm (2/3) and Mana Addict.
Opponent: Druid of the Claw (Taunt)
Turn 5: Fireball the Druid. Smack with Mana Wyrm (3/3) and Mana Addict.
Opponent: Druid of the Claw (Taunt)
Turn 6: Fireball the Druid. Smack with Mana Wyrm (4/3) and Mana Addict.

Game Over.

Actually used the apology emote. Kinda felt bad about the whole thing.

[Zevox]

even without any spells? Maybe...MCT hasn't done much for me - and the one time he might have won me the game, i forgot about him. Oh well.
Sure. With most classes you can reasonably assume you'll get some spells, and Warlock is no exception. Demonfire, Mortal Coil, Shadow Bolt, and Hellfire are all commons you might take, just off the top of my head. Of course, if you come across the pick later in the draft and still have no spells, that's another story, but for pick 1, it's still a very safe assumption to make.

[Destro_Yersul]

[/spoiler]
It's always a safe bet that you'll have spells in arena, just as it's a safe bet that you'll have minions.

I actually drafted a Priest deck once where I had maybe one spell. Went 12 wins. Apparently having all minions is great in Arena.

[SamBurke]

I actually drafted a Priest deck once where I had maybe one spell. Went 12 wins. Apparently having all minions is great in Arena.

*scribbles notes* Why d'you think?

[The_Jackal]

:smallconfused: Um, your math is very wrong there. You get 10 gold per 3 wins, not 30, so the minimum to get 100 gold per day outside of quests/arena is 30 games.

Derp. You're right. Still, I can't even imagine playing 30 games in a day.

[The_Jackal]

*scribbles notes* Why d'you think?

Because the Arena is basically a huge weighted random number generator.

[SamBurke]

Derp. You're right. Still, I can't even imagine playing 30 games in a day.

Me either... or the more likely 60, depending on win rates.

[Fleeing Coward]

Derp. You're right. Still, I can't even imagine playing 30 games in a day.

30 wins isn't that many when you put in a nice grind session especially if you're playing aggro. Although I agree the limit won't ever affect most players who just play the game casually for a few hours a day.

Currently rank 9 after 1 day of actual ranked play, only 3 losses total getting there (2 to Shaman and 1 to nut draw Murlock). Playing Watcher Druid which is just free wins against all the aggro decks and not horrible against control. Plan is just to get to whatever rank is needed to start off the first real season on the top modified rank, been mainly focusing on Arena the past 2 seasons.

I also want to say that I prefer Taz'dingo Ate My Baby better than plain Taz'dingo :smalltongue:

[The_Jackal]

30 wins isn't that many when you put in a nice grind session especially if you're playing aggro. Although I agree the limit won't ever affect most players who just play the game casually for a few hours a day.

Maybe things are different at the times I play, but the main reason I can't imagine playing to 30 wins is the plurality of players I encounter who take each turn like they're filing their tax returns.


I also want to say that I prefer Taz'dingo Ate My Baby better than plain Taz'dingo :smalltongue:

Plus one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wlMwc1c0HRQ)

[The Glyphstone]

Gee, if only we had someone around who could edit thread titles or something...:smallbiggrin:

[Zevox]

Maybe things are different at the times I play, but the main reason I can't imagine playing to 30 wins is the plurality of players I encounter who take each turn like they're filing their tax returns.
Can't say I really encounter that myself. I see a couple per day who take weirdly long on their first turn or two for no apparent reason, and often enough there's a turn or two where one of us is in a tight spot and takes a while deciding on our move, but other than that turns go reasonably quickly.


Gee, if only we had someone around who could edit thread titles or something...:smallbiggrin:
Hey now, no need for that. I'll be happy to change it if we get more people requesting the change than preferring the title as-is. Checking back in the previous thread, one (Kish) expressed a preference for just Taz'dingo, no further jokes added in. I'd be in that camp myself as well. Anybody else?

[Kish]

Plus one
Just because I suspect not posting anything would be treated as neutrality, minus one here.

[Olinser]

Can't say I really encounter that myself. I see a couple per day who take weirdly long on their first turn or two for no apparent reason, and often enough there's a turn or two where one of us is in a tight spot and takes a while deciding on our move, but other than that turns go reasonably quickly.


Hey now, no need for that. I'll be happy to change it if we get more people requesting the change than preferring the title as-is. Checking back in the previous thread, one (Kish) expressed a preference for just Taz'dingo, no further jokes added in. I'd be in that camp myself as well. Anybody else?

I'm a fan of any of the myriad Dingo jokes that could be made.

Just Taz'Dingo seems... bland.

[Fleeing Coward]

Hey now, no need for that. I'll be happy to change it if we get more people requesting the change than preferring the title as-is. Checking back in the previous thread, one (Kish) expressed a preference for just Taz'dingo, no further jokes added in. I'd be in that camp myself as well. Anybody else?

Should be obvious why I prefer the non bland option. Also, the troll in me so wants Glyphstone to abuse his power even though we all know it won't happen :smallbiggrin:

[The Glyphstone]

Hey now, no need for that. I'll be happy to change it if we get more people requesting the change than preferring the title as-is. Checking back in the previous thread, one (Kish) expressed a preference for just Taz'dingo, no further jokes added in. I'd be in that camp myself as well. Anybody else?

True, thread is fresh enough that you can still alter it. But yeah, there should be at least a visible plurality. And I'm kinda biased towards changing it anyways.:smallsmile:

count is 3/2 in favor...not really enough.

[AgentPaper]

I prefer the simple Taz'dingo as well.

[Destro_Yersul]

Given that it's a name as well as a battlecry, and is actually just one word in Zandali, making jokes out of it seems a bit silly. Keep it plain.


*scribbles notes* Why d'you think?

Because board control in Arena is king. Having a ton of spells is useless without minions to back them up, since spells are a one-shot deal. If you have enough minions that are good enough on their own for your opponent to need multiple resources to kill them, you'll usually win. Having a good curve also helps.


Because the Arena is basically a huge weighted random number generator.

If this were true, there would be no skill factor involved.

[Infernally Clay]

Poor Tinkmaster... He's basically useless now.

[SamBurke]

Given that it's a name as well as a battlecry, and is actually just one word in Zandali, making jokes out of it seems a bit silly. Keep it plain. I'm a pun man, so I vote for "... ate my Baby"




Because board control in Arena is king. Having a ton of spells is useless without minions to back them up, since spells are a one-shot deal. If you have enough minions that are good enough on their own for your opponent to need multiple resources to kill them, you'll usually win. Having a good curve also helps. Makes sense, yeah. How important are things like Taunt?

[Togath]

Finally got around to finishing the tutorial... Any advice for how steep a mage curve should be?

[otakuryoga]

i like Taz'Dingo ate my baby

and moving on...
if(more likely WHEN) they change Harvest Golem how do you think they will do so?

a) make it a 4 cost
b) make it a 2/2
c) make it a 1/3
d) make the deathrattle a 1/1
e) other

[The_Jackal]

Can't say I really encounter that myself. I see a couple per day who take weirdly long on their first turn or two for no apparent reason, and often enough there's a turn or two where one of us is in a tight spot and takes a while deciding on our move, but other than that turns go reasonably quickly.

I get sandbaggers ALL THE TIME. Not people thinking their turn over, people who take the whole turn, and wind up doing nothing, or the most simple, obvious plays. If I had a gold for every time-eater who spent their entire time picking their nose, I'd have completed my collection by now.

[Zevox]

Hm, I think the title vote currently stands at 6-4 in favor of changing it. I'll see where it stands after I get home from work tomorrow, to make sure anyone who cares gets a chance to say so, but it's looking like it'll get changed.


Finally got around to finishing the tutorial... Any advice for how steep a mage curve should be?
That depends on the kind of deck you want to make. Mage can definitely do both aggro and control, and I assume also mid-range. All depends on your style, and your cards.


i like Taz'Dingo ate my baby

and moving on...
if(more likely WHEN) they change Harvest Golem how do you think they will do so?

a) make it a 4 cost
b) make it a 2/2
c) make it a 1/3
d) make the deathrattle a 1/1
e) other
I'd bet on making the Damaged Golem a 1/1. That deathrattle is the entire reason Harvest Golem is so good, but since that's the whole point of the card, they can't remove it. Making the Damaged Golem less powerful seems the logical way to go, then.

Maybe they'd go for the cost increase or health decrease, but I think the former would be too much* and the latter have relatively little impact. I sincerely doubt they'd drop the attack of the base Golem to 1.

*Seriously, think about that one. Right now Harvest Golem is ubiquitous because it's the best minion in its weight class, barring certain class-specific cards like Frothing Berserker and Unbound Elemental. But if you move it up to the 4 slot it's competing with Chillwind Yeti, Sen'jin Shieldmasta, Dark Iron Dwarf, Defender of Argus, and Twilight Drake, and that's just the neutrals. Nobody would play it as a 4 cost.

[Destro_Yersul]

I'm a pun man, so I vote for "... ate my Baby"


Makes sense, yeah. How important are things like Taunt?

Taunt ranges in importance from vital to 'not very.' The most important thing to know is that there are only really a handful of neutral taunts worth taking - Taz'dingo the Sen'jin Shieldmasta, Defender of Argus, Sunfury Protector, Sunwalker, Fen Creeper, and SOMETIMES Hogger or Abomination. Argus and Protector don't have taunt themselves, but grant it as a battlecry.

Abomination is situational, and you must carefully consider your own deck before taking it. Hogger is good unless he's up against a stronger Legendary in your draft. Hands down the best common neutral taunt is Taz'dingo, with Fen Creeper second. I don't consider taking any other common taunts unless the alternatives are really, really bad.

[The_Jackal]

i like Taz'Dingo ate my baby

and moving on...
if(more likely WHEN) they change Harvest Golem how do you think they will do so?

a) make it a 4 cost
b) make it a 2/2
c) make it a 1/3
d) make the deathrattle a 1/1
e) other

Of them all, I think B is probably the most fair. That makes it not quite as good as Defias Ringleader (1 more mana, deathrattle instead of summon, no combo requirement). Making the deathrattle a 1/1 pretty much makes it inferior to the Razorfen Hunter. Making it a 4 drop makes it measurably worse than the Chillwind Yeti, the reference 4 drop minion. I still think that as a 2/2 with a 2/1 deathrattle, many people will still throw it in their deck, it's still just as dangerous, as only slightly less irritating to clear.

[Destro_Yersul]

Well, latest Arena pack was very shiny. Opened a Golden Deathwing. I think I'll hold on to him, I have an idea for a ridiculous deck using mostly Dragons once I've got all of them...

[ShinyRocks]

I've been encountering a lot of people who play really really slowly, too. If they do absolutely nothing, I don't mind, because then the fuse starts straight away on their turn and I get a free win. But it's also people just taking forever on every single hand. Almost their whole turn on Turn 1, where it's like 'you have a card, or you don't, get on with it'. Or at the end.

Yesterday I was 2 health, my opponent was on like 4. I had a weakened Earth Elemental and something else on the board, he had a Defender of Argus. And yet it took his whole turn to play thingy, the one with Divine Shield and Charge, to kill the Elemental and go for my face with the Defender and win. C'mon guy! Fast fast!

I'm growing to like Al'Akir a bit more. He's a good finisher. But he's still understatted for 8, Silence renders him utterly useless, and I think he'd be better without Taunt, so you could hide him behind one and attack who you want to the next Turn.

[Lighturtle]

I would rather we not change the title. Or something funnier like "Don't Taz'dingo me, bro!".

[Lionheart]

Alright chaps!
Thought I should make myself known. I've been playing for a few weeks, mostly in arena.
Best so far is 6 wins, but working on it ;)
My username is Lionheart on the eu server.
I'll probably be posting a draft in the next couple of days for comments, advice etc.

[Neon Knight]

I vote for "Taz'Dingo Ate My Baby" as a thread title.

[Zevox]

My username is Lionheart on the eu server.
Going to need your number as well. It can be found in the friends list, in the lower left corner of the screen in-game.

[Selrahc]

Well, latest Arena pack was very shiny. Opened a Golden Deathwing. I think I'll hold on to him, I have an idea for a ridiculous deck using mostly Dragons once I've got all of them...

Well do share. Gimmick decks are fun.

[Gandariel]

Yeah, i don't think i'd disenchant Deathwing either :D

[ShinyRocks]

I find it weird that there's no real Dragon synergy in the game. Hunters obviously have great Beast stuff. There's murloc synergy. Pirate synergy to an extent. And then there's just ... dragons. I'm not sure why they've bothered to type them as Dragon when it doesn't do anything.

[Olinser]

I've been encountering a lot of people who play really really slowly, too. If they do absolutely nothing, I don't mind, because then the fuse starts straight away on their turn and I get a free win. But it's also people just taking forever on every single hand. Almost their whole turn on Turn 1, where it's like 'you have a card, or you don't, get on with it'. Or at the end.

Yesterday I was 2 health, my opponent was on like 4. I had a weakened Earth Elemental and something else on the board, he had a Defender of Argus. And yet it took his whole turn to play thingy, the one with Divine Shield and Charge, to kill the Elemental and go for my face with the Defender and win. C'mon guy! Fast fast!

I'm growing to like Al'Akir a bit more. He's a good finisher. But he's still understatted for 8, Silence renders him utterly useless, and I think he'd be better without Taunt, so you could hide him behind one and attack who you want to the next Turn.

See my post at the end of the last thread.

Some poor players purposefully try and slow play games to frustrate people and get them to quit for free wins.

Especially on turn 1, if somebody takes the entire time to just end their turn, I sit there for MY entire turn and end it just before the fuse blows.

Most of them magically regain their ability to play in a reasonable amount of time as soon as they realize you're perfectly willing to do the same crap back to them.

[Olinser]

I find it weird that there's no real Dragon synergy in the game. Hunters obviously have great Beast stuff. There's murloc synergy. Pirate synergy to an extent. And then there's just ... dragons. I'm not sure why they've bothered to type them as Dragon when it doesn't do anything.

They will probably be adding in more cards in future patches. They may add something like Dragon Hunters, or small dragons that get a buff if a big one is on the board. And of course there are still plenty of Dragons from the lore that they can still add in: Kalecgos, Nefarion, Sapphiron, Soridormi, Korialstrasz, Eranikus, Sindragosa, and those are just off the top of my head.

Honestly I personally want to see a couple of the Dragons be more like Druid of the Claw - where you pick from the 2 modes, Human or Dragon. Human mode would be significantly weaker, but cost less, while Dragon mode would be full cost and full abilities.

Something like Alexstrasza. Obviously her Dragon mode would stay the same - 8/8 for 9, Battlecry set a hero's to 15.

But add the option to play the same card her as Human Alexstrasza, something like a 4/4 for 5, Battlecry set a minion's health to 5.

[Karoht]

Ahh way too many Fireballs is OP in arena. I got 4.

Turn 4: Fireball to face. Smack with Mana Wyrm (2/3) and Mana Addict.
Opponent: Druid of the Claw (Taunt)
Turn 5: Fireball the Druid. Smack with Mana Wyrm (3/3) and Mana Addict.
Opponent: Druid of the Claw (Taunt)
Turn 6: Fireball the Druid. Smack with Mana Wyrm (4/3) and Mana Addict.

Game Over.

Actually used the apology emote. Kinda felt bad about the whole thing.
Enemy plays Millhouse Manastorm.
You play Archmage Antonidas. And any other spell (for zero mana).
Your Fireball count is infinity. That turn. Because you can.
Happened in that replay video I posted in the other thread.

[The_Jackal]

See my post at the end of the last thread.

Some poor players purposefully try and slow play games to frustrate people and get them to quit for free wins.

Especially on turn 1, if somebody takes the entire time to just end their turn, I sit there for MY entire turn and end it just before the fuse blows.

Most of them magically regain their ability to play in a reasonable amount of time as soon as they realize you're perfectly willing to do the same crap back to them.

If I were a Hearthstone developer, I'd add a secondary mechanic where if your combined time taken exceeds some multiple of your opponent, you lose automatically.

[Math_Mage]

I find it weird that there's no real Dragon synergy in the game. Hunters obviously have great Beast stuff. There's murloc synergy. Pirate synergy to an extent. And then there's just ... dragons. I'm not sure why they've bothered to type them as Dragon when it doesn't do anything.
Because dragons are loners. Duh.

[Olinser]

If I were a Hearthstone developer, I'd add a secondary mechanic where if your combined time taken exceeds some multiple of your opponent, you lose automatically.

Way too easy to exploit. After 5 seconds of thought, I already can break the system.

Your Turn 1 - hover over End Turn button, hit instantly. Turn time, 1 second. Total time, 1 second
Enemy Turn 1 - Use coin, drop 2 drop, think about your hand for a second, hit end turn button. Turn time, 10 seconds. Total time, 10 seconds.
Your Turn 2 - hover over End Turn button, hit instantly. Turn time, 1 second. Total time, 2 seconds.
Enemy turn 2 - Look at new card, drop a 2 drop/hit class ability, hit face, end turn. Turn time, 10 seconds. Total time, 20 seconds.

The next couple turns will go exactly like that. So just by hovering and ending instantly your opponent is already taking 10 times the amount of time you did for turns.

Honestly, I don't like it, but there is no reasonable way to weed out the purposefully slow douchebags from the legitimately slow thinkers.

They gave you 90 seconds for your turn, and if you choose to use the entire 90 seconds, it is within the rules.

However, I do wish that they organized this like Zynga poker. That is, you choose to join a normal game or a fast game. Normal games have the standard 90 seconds for a turn. A fast game each of you only has 30 seconds a turn (or maybe something like 30 seconds base, each card you play adds 5 seconds to the timer or something). That way you basically both have agreed beforehand it will be a quick game.



EDIT: By the way - anybody else having trouble with the GiTP forums? They've been slow as molasses all day, and got like 4 different 503 errors when trying to post this. I'm wondering if it's the servers or just me.

[Togath]

Should I use my gold on booster packs, or save it for the arena?

[Kish]

Should I use my gold on booster packs, or save it for the arena?
That depends entirely on your attitude toward arena.
1) I play arena exclusively, not constructed.
All your gold should go to arena matches.
2) I play arena occasionally, and reliably do better than 3/3 when I do.
Most of your gold should probably go to the arena.
3) I play arena frequently, but often lose.
Most of your gold should probably go to the arena.
4) I play arena occasionally, and often lose.
You'll have to figure out what ratio works for you, then.
5) I much prefer constructed to the arena.
Most or all of your gold should go to packs, only spending gold on an arena match when (if) you're in the mood for one.

[Dada]

The general advice is to go for arena. Many find arena to be the most fun part of Hearthstone, and you will generally get more value from your gold, even discounting the "fun" value. That being said if you actively dislike playing arena there is nothing wrong with going for packs.

[The Glyphstone]

So, let's say I want to do a hypothetical Molten Core deck. Ragnaros, Baron Geddon, Molten Giants, and Core Hounds, maybe some Wild Pyromancers. Which hero's cards would be most synergistic and thematic in getting this to a possibility of working?

[Olinser]

Should I use my gold on booster packs, or save it for the arena?

Depends whether you enjoy playing in the arena or not.

To break it down mathematically, there are 3 zones for Arena, and depending on which zone you can consistently hit, it may or may not be efficient for you.

Zone 1 - 1-3 wins Inefficient

Basically, it's costing you more gold per card than just buying the packs. Still can be useful, because you get experience with the game and what cards can be good/bad, as well as possibly discovering cards that you wouldn't necessarily use in a constructed deck

Zone 2 4-7 wins - Efficient

Somewhere around 80% of the time at 4 wins, you will be getting 50+ gold in addition to your pack (5,6,7 give you progressively more). If you're in this zone consistently, it is much more efficient to play arena than buy packs.

Zone 3 - > 7 wins, Self Sustaining

Self sustaining means that your run gives you enough gold to immediately begin another arena run. So you essentially got your pack for free, and can keep playing. If you're good enough to hit this zone, you probably aren't going to play much more because you're going to get every card pretty quickly.



Me personally, other than the initial tutorial purchase, I have not bought a pack from the store.

You can also complete daily quests while doing arena.

[Dada]

Zone 1 - 1-3 wins Inefficient

Basically, it's costing you more gold per card than just buying the packs. Still can be useful, because you get experience with the game and what cards can be good/bad, as well as possibly discovering cards that you wouldn't necessarily use in a constructed deck

Zone 2 4-7 wins - Efficient

Somewhere around 80% of the time at 4 wins, you will be getting 50+ gold in addition to your pack (5,6,7 give you progressively more). If you're in this zone consistently, it is much more efficient to play arena than buy packs.

Zone 3 - > 7 wins, Self Sustaining

Self sustaining means that your run gives you enough gold to immediately begin another arena run. So you essentially got your pack for free, and can keep playing. If you're good enough to hit this zone, you probably aren't going to play much more because you're going to get every card pretty quickly.


You will actually get efficient outcomes fairly often even between 1 and 3 wins. And even if you don't get gold, 20 dust is kinda sorta worth half a booster if you squint.

Also, even if you manage to go infinite on arena, it will take fairly long to grind to all cards. I started back in November, have 781 wins in arena and have never not had enough gold to play arena whenever I wanted to. I am still missing a good amount of legendaries (but to be fair, this is partly because I am not disenchanting gold cards and crap legendaries. Yes I am vain :smalltongue:)

[Zevox]

I count 7-5 in favor of changing the thread title at this point. So changed it has been.


I find it weird that there's no real Dragon synergy in the game. Hunters obviously have great Beast stuff. There's murloc synergy. Pirate synergy to an extent. And then there's just ... dragons. I'm not sure why they've bothered to type them as Dragon when it doesn't do anything.
I imagine we'll see some introduced later, when new cards are added. I believe that interview someone linked a while back mentioned that a handful would be added when the game was officially released, so that might even be soon, too.


Enemy plays Millhouse Manastorm.
You play Archmage Antonidas. And any other spell (for zero mana).
Your Fireball count is infinity. That turn. Because you can.
Happened in that replay video I posted in the other thread.
Anyone who plays Millhouse Manastorm against a Mage on turn 7+ completely deserves that.

Hell, anyone who plays Millhouse Manastorm against a Mage at all deserves that.


Should I use my gold on booster packs, or save it for the arena?
Early on, I think it's very advisable to do a lot of arena play. It gives you a chance to try a wide variety of cards you don't yet have, always gets you at least a pack and a little extra gold/dust even if you go 0-3, and can become pretty profitable if you start getting a fair number of wins per run.

After a little while though, depends on you. If you prefer arena, always spend your gold there - save perhaps if you have an excess and are commonly getting to 7+ wins, in which case feel free to buy some packs too. If you prefer constructed, spend it on packs except when you feel like going to arena.

[AgentPaper]

I would rather we not change the title. Or something funnier like "Don't Taz'dingo me, bro!".

Don't Taz me 'dingo!

[Lighturtle]

So, let's say I want to do a hypothetical Molten Core deck. Ragnaros, Baron Geddon, Molten Giants, and Core Hounds, maybe some Wild Pyromancers. Which hero's cards would be most synergistic and thematic in getting this to a possibility of working?

Spellpower warlock? Hellfire, soulfire, combines well with moltens... IIRC ragnaros was summoned by Dark Iron warlocks. Oh, Dark Iron Dwarf is an obvious choice.

[Kalmageddon]

Getting really frustrated by my complete inability to play constructed, expecially considering I can play Arena and get 4+ wins on a bad day, usually around 7-8, even with a bad draft and heroes I don't particularly like, so I can't be that bad.
And yet, every time I get an idea for a deck, put it together and try it out I get stomped. And every guide and build I've found has mandatory Epic/Legendary cards to make it work, wich I don't have.
So is that it? To be even the least bit competitive you need to grab the top tier cards first? :smallconfused:

[Olinser]

Getting really frustrated by my complete inability to play constructed, expecially considering I can play Arena and get 4+ wins on a bad day, usually around 7-8, even with a bad draft and heroes I don't particularly like, so I can't be that bad.
And yet, every time I get an idea for a deck, put it together and try it out I get stomped. And every guide and build I've found has mandatory Epic/Legendary cards to make it work, wich I don't have.
So is that it? To be even the least bit competitive you need to grab the top tier cards first? :smallconfused:

Legendaries aren't required for a good number of decks - especially aggro decks.

Epics, yeah, you need a few for most decks. But they're not that hard to get, they're only 400 dust.

Also, what kind of deck are you playing? That will probably explain why you are getting stomped.

Aggro decks are kind of the FOTM right now, if you're running a deck with lots of big late game creatures, yeah, you're probably getting stomped by them.

[Dada]

Depends what you mean by competitive. You will generally have a very uphill battle without legendaries if you are playing midrange or control, but aggro is very doable. For budget decks which are viable all the way to the top ranks, I'd recommend looking at the following ones:
Reynad Warlock Zoo (http://www.liquidhearth.com/staff/monk/PowerRank/March2014/Reynad_Aggro_Warlock.jpg)
Aggro Hunter (http://www.liquidhearth.com/staff/monk/PowerRank/Feb2013/Aggro_Hunter.png) (aka Faceroll Hunter)
Trump Mage (http://www.liquidhearth.com/staff/monk/PowerRank/March2014/Trump_Budget_Mage.jpg)
Reynad Warrior (http://i.imgur.com/RrAmpGr.png) (this has fallen out of favor and is probably no longer top tier. Should still be good though)

[Penguinizer]

Eh, just play Mage. You get so many free wins as a mage it's not even funny. I started playing Ranked earlier tonight and stomped all my games for 6 ranks in a row (25->19 so it doesn't actually count though) with my mage deck composed of all commons, core cards and 1 random rare/legendary.

The only game I lost was against an actual deck largely composed of rares/legendaries. At which point I lost because I can only deal with so many creatures that say "Kill me now or you outright lose."

[Zevox]

So, today's update added the changes to Tinkmaster Overspark and Nat Pagle that we heard about yesterday, but also some more stuff. The noteworthy ones I'm seeing:

All of the circumstances they knew of that caused the minion position swapping and hand overlapping bugs are fixed. They aren't guaranteeing those bugs are completely gone, because they're apparently caused by a variety of things, but here's hoping this means they'll be far rarer at the very least. :smallsmile:
If you disconnect from a match, you now have 60 seconds during which you can attempt to reconnect and pick up where you left off. Nice.
Secrets now only activate on your opponent's turn. Shouldn't affect most of them, but it is effectively a nerf to Paladin's Redemption secret, which kinda sucks since it was already not much used.
Water Elemental now freezes armored heroes. Apparently it not freezing before was a bug, not a feature of armor.
"Golden Heroes" have been added, and are unlocked by winning 500 ranked games with the hero in question. I'm guessing this is strictly an aesthetic thing, like gold cards.
New card backs have also been added. They're less specific on how these are unlocked, mentioning only that one way is to participate in each ranked season.
Once the patch is live in all regions, you'll be able to connect your account to other regions regardless of which region your battle.net account is set to. So, Sounds like our EU and NA players will be able to play each other. :smallsmile:
Various new visual effects were added.

Overall, much bigger update than I expected. Here's hoping those position swapping and hand overlapping bugs really are mostly or entirely resolved now.

Don't know if I'll care much about the golden heroes - I honestly suspect I'm nowhere near unlocking any anyway, since I still haven't even gotten that reward for 1k wins, and I use a fair amount of different heroes. And I'm really not sure what the point of different card backs is, since you don't even see your own during a match.

[ShinyRocks]

Well, maybe the patch isn't live in the EU yet, although I downloaded and installed *something*. But literally the first two cards in the first game I played today swapped places, so...

Excited about the Warcraft mount, though. Wait, yup, Patch definitely isn't live here, as I just got my three wins and didn't get the Mount. Tomorrow it is!

[Lighturtle]

Had a funny match end against mage. After some trading there's just my argus on the board, she drops a boulderfist, I faceless manip it, she faceless manip it, she drops another boulderfist. Afterwards she has board advantage (as her hero power helps her dominate the boulderfist contest) but she has 7 hp left and and the argus is still there so I finish her with a sick synergistic alpha wolf + alpha wolf + hellfire combo. Ridiculously inefficient but hey, it worked.

[The_Jackal]

Way too easy to exploit. After 5 seconds of thought, I already can break the system.

You can give everyone a minimum time before the timewaster penalty kicks in. Honestly, the core concept is no different from a chess clock. Honestly, I'd rather they do absolute time, rather than per-turn time, in whatever form they choose to enforce it, because then deliberate timewasting tactics aimed at irritating your opponent are detrimental to your own position.

[Penguinizer]

The only other way I can think of is turn timers like in Magic Online. Those are a huge headache in their own right. I've several times had matches where I have to rush to complete my turn so I won't get clocked out. I don't really think there's a perfect solution though.

[otakuryoga]

.....we already HAVE turn timers

[Penguinizer]

.....we already HAVE turn timers

I meant in the chessclock style. As in you can take as much time as you want but you only have an hour total. Now, the numbers have to be tweaked but the concept stays the same.

[AgentPaper]

I meant in the chessclock style. As in you can take as much time as you want but you only have an hour total. Now, the numbers have to be tweaked but the concept stays the same.

Except that there are games that legitimately go 20+ minutes.

[Penguinizer]

Except that there are games that legitimately go 20+ minutes.

Imperfect solutions like I've mentioned. I've seen Magic games go to an hour on the first game of a 2/3.

[Zevox]

Had a funny match end against mage. After some trading there's just my argus on the board, she drops a boulderfist, I faceless manip it, she faceless manip it, she drops another boulderfist. Afterwards she has board advantage (as her hero power helps her dominate the boulderfist contest) but she has 7 hp left and and the argus is still there so I finish her with a sick synergistic alpha wolf + alpha wolf + hellfire combo. Ridiculously inefficient but hey, it worked.
Card efficiency doesn't matter in the slightest when you have lethal. :smallsmile:

On another note, apparently the game was not previously tracking your ranked wins by class, so to earn those gold heroes we're all starting from 0 on everyone now. Ouch. Gonna take a very long time before I have any of those indeed. Hell, it'll have to be at least a week or so minimum before anyone earns one at all I'd wager, simply because of how long 500 games (much less 500 wins) would take even the most dedicated player.

Edit: Ooo, I love the new animation accompanying Feral Spirits. Pretty darn cool.

[jindra34]

A better solution on time would either be a 2 minute 30 second exchange (you have that much time at the start, each second your opponent spends is one more you can spend) or 5 minutes with 45ish seconds gained at the end of each turn. Both encourage reasonably fast play, punish people who try and just delay it out, and allow for longer games.

[Krade]

So just went ahead and dusted my Tinkmaster. While thinking about which Legendary I wanted next, I tried to minimize the game like I normally do when I want to check the thread or post something. Used to do it all the time. Now? When I try, the sound cuts out and the game stays on the screen. The Start bar shows up but clicking on anything doesn't do anything and clicking anywhere else resumes the sound and goes back to the game.

I guess this isn't a big issue, but I don't want to have to exit the game every time I want to post something in-thread about a match and then launch it again.

That said, I was wondering about whatever advice anyone might have for my next Legendary. I have Ragnaros, Malygos, Ysera, and Tirion Fordring. I mostly play Mage in constructed. Here's my current deck:
http://i.imgur.com/712bBHB.png?1
I'm thinking of switching Malygos out for Ysera, but I'm still undecided. I definitely want one of them, but with both of them, one almost always ends up a dead card in hand. Other than that, I don't know which Legendary would go well with what I've got here.

[Olinser]

So just went ahead and dusted my Tinkmaster. While thinking about which Legendary I wanted next, I tried to minimize the game like I normally do when I want to check the thread or post something. Used to do it all the time. Now? When I try, the sound cuts out and the game stays on the screen. The Start bar shows up but clicking on anything doesn't do anything and clicking anywhere else resumes the sound and goes back to the game.

I guess this isn't a big issue, but I don't want to have to exit the game every time I want to post something in-thread about a match and then launch it again.

That said, I was wondering about whatever advice anyone might have for my next Legendary. I have Ragnaros, Malygos, Ysera, and Tirion Fordring. I mostly play Mage in constructed. Here's my current deck:
http://i.imgur.com/712bBHB.png?1
I'm thinking of switching Malygos out for Ysera, but I'm still undecided. I definitely want one of them, but with both of them, one almost always ends up a dead card in hand. Other than that, I don't know which Legendary would go well with what I've got here.

Uh, why did you dust Tinkmaster now.

When a card is changed, there is a period of a few days where you can dust it for full cost (1600) rather than the normal reduced amount.



And Ysera is much better than Malygos in that deck. You only have 6 spells to begin with that could benefit from Spell Damage.

[Krade]

Uh, why did you dust Tinkmaster now.

When a card is changed, there is a period of a few days where you can dust it for full cost (1600) rather than the normal reduced amount.
Because he's changed now.


And Ysera is much better than Malygos in that deck. You only have 6 spells to begin with that could benefit from Spell Damage.

That's what I was thinking. Also, by the time Malygos gets out there's a good chance a lot of the cards that would benefit have already been played. Yeah, Ysera's going back in.

[Zevox]

That said, I was wondering about whatever advice anyone might have for my next Legendary. I have Ragnaros, Malygos, Ysera, and Tirion Fordring. I mostly play Mage in constructed. Here's my current deck:
http://i.imgur.com/712bBHB.png?1
I'm thinking of switching Malygos out for Ysera, but I'm still undecided. I definitely want one of them, but with both of them, one almost always ends up a dead card in hand. Other than that, I don't know which Legendary would go well with what I've got here.
I'd say Sylvanas or Cairne. Both are always going to be solid picks for mid-range or control decks - easy to pop out a Boulderfist Ogre or the Sunwalker for one in that deck. (Also, Ysera over Malygos there, easily.)

An aside: if you want to improve that deck in another way, get rid of Mana Addict. They're not good.


Uh, why did you dust Tinkmaster now.

When a card is changed, there is a period of a few days where you can dust it for full cost (1600) rather than the normal reduced amount.
The change happened today.

[Eurus]

What kind of deck can take advantage of Questing Adventurer? Would it be solid in a rogue deck or something?

[Zevox]

What kind of deck can take advantage of Questing Adventurer? Would it be solid in a rogue deck or something?
Probably, yeah. It wants you to have lots of cheap things to play along with it, and Rogue does that, especially with 0-costs like Backstab and Shadowstep.

[Math_Mage]

What kind of deck can take advantage of Questing Adventurer? Would it be solid in a rogue deck or something?
A Rogue deck that can't get its hands on Edwin Van Cleef, basically.

[The Glyphstone]

-1 Nat Pagle. +1 Ysera. Awesome.

[Fleeing Coward]

Pagle's still reasonable actually so I'm keeping it. Anyone with Tinkmaster should probably DE it though.

[Mattarias, King.]

Hello! I am new here. :)

Well, I've been playing on and off since before it went open beta, but... Yeah, I suck, so I'm new. :smalltongue:

I want to make a decent "Fire Mage" deck. Any suggestions? I just unlocked Flamestrike...

Edit: Yes, I could google it, but I come to threads for discussion.

[Nerocite]

A Rogue deck that can't get its hands on Edwin Van Cleef, basically.

A lot of miracle rogue decks run both, actually.

[Kalmageddon]

Legendaries aren't required for a good number of decks - especially aggro decks.

Epics, yeah, you need a few for most decks. But they're not that hard to get, they're only 400 dust.

Also, what kind of deck are you playing? That will probably explain why you are getting stomped.

Aggro decks are kind of the FOTM right now, if you're running a deck with lots of big late game creatures, yeah, you're probably getting stomped by them.

I think it mostly comes down to the fact that I like to play some sort of gimmick, I can't see the appeal of constructed otherwise.

Anyway, there's also the fact that I got incredibly bored of playing aggro. At the beginning I used to play Hunter and had some reasonable success with it. Then I got frustrated at how underwhelming and boring it was, with every match being a "Win by turn 7 or lose", not really what I was looking for.
So I started looking at other heroes and gameplay mechanics that sounded fun, like the "Enrage" mechanic. So I tried an Enrage Warrior deck. Complete garbage, which also made me realize that a Mage is probably far better for an Enrage deck, something which I feel is wrong on so many levels.

Right now the two classes I'm most interested in are the Paladin and the Druid, I like the Paladin's spells and its reliable card draw plus amazing weapons, and I like the Druid's flexibility and amazing buff cards.

Any good, tested advince on a budget deck for those two would be greatly appreciated.

I'm also fond of the Warrior, in concept. In practice, it seems even more frustrating than the Hunter and its hero power is probably the worst in the game. It's basically a self target only Priest heal power. Yeah you can go above 30 with it, but that's hardly worth anything.
Still don't understand why the Priest power doesn't heal 1 to anyone just like the Mage power deals 1 damage to anything. Oh, well.

[Infernally Clay]

What kind of deck can take advantage of Questing Adventurer? Would it be solid in a rogue deck or something?

Warrior is pretty good as well. If you have a Warsong Commander on the field, you can play Questing Adventurer and play Inner Rage to get a 5/2 with Charge. Not game breaking but a Reckless Rocketeer for three mana is nothing to be sneezed at.

[ShinyRocks]

Hello! I am new here. :)

Well, I've been playing on and off since before it went open beta, but... Yeah, I suck, so I'm new. :smalltongue:

I want to make a decent "Fire Mage" deck. Any suggestions? I just unlocked Flamestrike...

Edit: Yes, I could google it, but I come to threads for discussion.

First thought is: I'm not sure that's really a viable theme. There aren't enough fire cards to make it make sense.

That said: obviously 2 x Fireball, 2 x Flamestrike. 2 x Wild Pyromancer, because fire. Try to get Archmage Antonidas, as he gives you a Fireball every time you cast a spell, but he's a Legendary, so will take a lot of luck to get, or a lot of Dust to craft. Alexstrasza is another Legendary, and has a fiery battlecry. Dragons in general are a good match for a Fire theme, I guess, and Fairy Dragon, Azure Drake and Twilight Drake are all good cards. The Demolisher chucks explosive barrels in people's faces...

You'll still want solid regular cards like Sen'jin Shieldmasta and Chillwind Yeti. And you'll still want Polymorph because it's great. (And if you play it with a Pyromancer, whatever you've sheeped dies straight away.)

[Frog Dragon]

Drafting

WARLOCK/Shaman/Priest
Apparently arena wants to give me the last three classes I played. Ah well.
Arcane Golem/Violet Teacher/TWILIGHT DRAKE
Twilight drake is typically a yeti.

Dire Wolf Alpha/Mortal Coil/LOOT HOARDER
2/1 is high enough stats to matter, and being card-neutral is good.

Leper Gnome/ANCIENT BREWMASTER/Silverback Patriarch
5/4 for 4 is solid.

Youthful Brewmaster/Blood Imp/SPELLBREAKER
One of the few good silences in the game.

ANCIENT BREWMASTER/Core Hound/Elven Archer
Again, Brewmaster is clearly superior.

Worgen Infiltrator/SOULFIRE/Wisp
Soulfire is pretty good.

Core Hound/WOLFRIDER/Elven Archer
Basically a three-damage removal, which is reasonable.

Corruption/Sense Demons/NIGHTBLADE
If I had demons, I'd take Sense Demons. However, I don't, so I'll have to take Nightblade, as much as I hate that card.

Sea Giant/Mountain Giant/PIT LORD
Pit Lord is a pretty cool guy. Eh kills yetis and doesn't afraid of anything.

Coldlight Oracle/Ancient Watcher/RAVENHOLDT ASSASSIN
Only one that isn't a dumb gimmick.

Young Dragonhawk/Nightblade/DEMONFIRE
Even without demons, Demonfire is okay removal.

DEMONFIRE/River Crocolisk/Thrallmar Farseer
Again.

Voodoo Doctor/Frost Elemental/HELLFIRE
Don't have that much early game, so a board reset on turn 4 might be in my favor.

EARTHEN RING FARSEER/Sense Demons/Kobold Geomancer
A solid three.

Silvermoon Guardian/FEN CREEPER/Drain Life
Fen Creeper is okay, though not exceptional.

DEMONFIRE/Priestess of Elune/Dalaran Mage
Don't like third demonfire, but against this crowd, I will take it.

Corruption/VENTURE CO. MERCENARY/Leper Gnome
Value Co. is value.

DIRE WOLF ALPHA/Succubus/Gurubashi Berserker
Succubus is terrible, I can't proc gurubashi and Dire Wolf is reasonable.

FLAME IMP/Acidic Swamp Ooze/Sacrificial Pact
3/2 for 1 is nothing to sneeze at, and the three demonfires make some monster openings possible if I have a flame imp in my opening hand.

Bane of Doom/SEA GIANT/Hungry Crab
Beef that comes online early. Sea Giant is pretty good.

Silvermoon Guardian/BLOODFEN RAPTOR/Spellbreaker
Need early drops.

Dalaran Mage/Stormpike Commando/IRONFUR GRIZZLY
Also need threes.

Succubus/VOIDWALKER/Dragonling Mechanic
Normally, I don't like voidwalker in arena, but with three demonfires, it could actually work. Also the other two cards are just as bad, or worse.

FLAME IMP/Goldshire Footman/Sense Demons
Flame Imp is generally good.

SOULFIRE/Gurubashi Berserker/Dread Infernal
Soulfire is still fairly good. Considered dread infernal, but eh.

SPITEFUL SMITH/Power Overwhelming/Sense Demons
Spiteful Smith actually has fairly good stats for cost.

Stormwind Knight/LOOT HOARDER/Silverback Patriarch
Loot hoarder is reasonable, and I already have fours.

Succubus/FLAME IMP/Razorfen Hunter
This might be a suicide deck. I have 14 points worth of self damage in my cards now. Still, can't pass up flame imp.

Ironforge Rifleman/Dire Wolf Alpha/ACIDIC SWAMP OOZE
Ooze is good.

Doomguard/Mana Wraith/DEFENDER OF ARGUS
Argus is pretty good, especially with all these low drops.

Curve is 2/4/8/3/5/4/0/1/0/0/0 and giant. Maybe shoul'da taken Dread Infernal. Hellfire actually turns out to be bad because my curve got really bottom heavy all of a sudden. Ah well, happens sometimes. Creature curve is 0/4/5/3/4/4/0/1/0/0/0 and giant. I think I may have accidentally built an aggro deck.

[Infernally Clay]

They really need to implement a "no Legendaries" option because I'm kinda becoming bored of Constructed now...

I'm trying to complete these three quests (all Warlock related, worth 140 gold) I have stacked up but it's basically impossible to do because everyone I've gone against today has packed three or more Legendaries. How many times do I have to face Sylvanas and Cairne? It's boring when all these different players are just playing the same cards all the time, regardless of whether we're talking Casual or Ranked.

The worst part is that I figured I'd give a deck off of those websites a go and what does the mid-cost aggro deck have in it? Cairne and Sylvanas. D:

[Frog Dragon]

...Why would a dedicated aggro deck have either of those? At 6 mana, they cost too much to be used (aggro wants to win by that point) and Cairne is very much not an aggro card. Must be some strange aggro decks.

[Infernally Clay]

...Why would a dedicated aggro deck have either of those? At 6 mana, they cost too much to be used (aggro wants to win by that point) and Cairne is very much not an aggro card. Must be some strange aggro decks.

Yeah, I think I'll just figure something out myself... It can't be that hard to build a Warlock deck that doesn't suck.

[Zevox]

...Why would a dedicated aggro deck have either of those? At 6 mana, they cost too much to be used (aggro wants to win by that point) and Cairne is very much not an aggro card. Must be some strange aggro decks.
Well, he did say "mid-cost" aggro deck, so it may be have a mid-range deck that simply leans more aggro than control. I could see a deck like that running Sylvanas and/or Cairne as its most expensive cards.

[Olinser]

First thought is: I'm not sure that's really a viable theme. There aren't enough fire cards to make it make sense.

That said: obviously 2 x Fireball, 2 x Flamestrike. 2 x Wild Pyromancer, because fire. Try to get Archmage Antonidas, as he gives you a Fireball every time you cast a spell, but he's a Legendary, so will take a lot of luck to get, or a lot of Dust to craft. Alexstrasza is another Legendary, and has a fiery battlecry. Dragons in general are a good match for a Fire theme, I guess, and Fairy Dragon, Azure Drake and Twilight Drake are all good cards. The Demolisher chucks explosive barrels in people's faces...

You'll still want solid regular cards like Sen'jin Shieldmasta and Chillwind Yeti. And you'll still want Polymorph because it's great. (And if you play it with a Pyromancer, whatever you've sheeped dies straight away.)

Hey now, if you're actually going with a Fire theme you can't add a creature with 'chill' in its name.

[Karoht]

Hey now, if you're actually going with a Fire theme you can't add a creature with 'chill' in its name.Sure you can. He's tired of the constant cold of Alterac Valley, he's basking in the heat created by this mage and his effects.

[Frog Dragon]

On a completely unrelated note, I'm quite impressed with how Blizzard managed to nerf the worst card in the game. Now you can't even trigger Eye for an Eye with weapon swings.

[Karoht]

On a completely unrelated note, I'm quite impressed with how Blizzard managed to nerf the worst card in the game. Now you can't even trigger Eye for an Eye with weapon swings.??? Is Eye for an Eye the worst card you are refering to? I'm lost. I've seen some pretty epic Eye for an Eye wins.
"Screw your big bad taunt wall that prevents me from hitting you."
*Buff, buff, buff a minion*
*punch self in face with minion*
*Win game*

Alexstraza + Eye for an Eye is pretty funny.
You-At full health.
Them-At 15 health.
You-Eye for an Eye yourself.
You-Alexstraza breathes on you.
Your health drops to 15.
Them-Dead.

[Frog Dragon]

I might be exaggerating a little with "worst", but it really was a rather garbage card even before this. I mean, if your opponent plays Jaraxxus in a warlock mirror and you Pact him, Sacrificial Pact was basically a 0 mana "kill enemy hero". Doesn't change the fact that most of the time it's a real bad idea.

Eye for an Eye is kind of like that. Sometimes it happens to do something useful. These circumstances are so unreliable that it really isn't worth including in anything.

Edit: Alexstrazsa + Eye for an Eye doesn't work because Alexstrazsa does not deal damage

[Karoht]

Edit: Alexstrazsa + Eye for an Eye doesn't work because Alexstrazsa does not deal damageTell that to the Top 5 video I posted a while back which shows a Paladin pulling this off.
And a Paladin draw for both of them because they both had Eye for and Eye up.
It may have been fixed in a following patch, but the health change at some point WAS considered damage if it was reducing someone's health.

[Frog Dragon]

It was indeed changed. (http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/forum/topic/11765187010)

I hope we can at least agree that Eye for an Eye is terribad since the last patch. :smalltongue:

[AgentPaper]

I might be exaggerating a little with "worst", but it really was a rather garbage card even before this.

It's not a great card, but it was used in a few paladin aggro decks, simply as a way to deal a good amount of damage for cheap. It's not perfect, but it could deal a healthy chunk of damage if you time it right.


Edit: Alexstrazsa + Eye for an Eye doesn't work because Alexstrazsa does not deal damage

She does, actually, and that exact combo does work (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxf8iipHW-s).

Edit: Apparently it was changed. Bah.

[Karoht]

It was indeed changed. (http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/forum/topic/11765187010)

I hope we can at least agree that Eye for an Eye is terribad since the last patch. :smalltongue:Shame that.
Creative Eye for an Eye usage was rather amusing.

[Frog Dragon]

It's not a great card, but it was used in a few paladin aggro decks, simply as a way to deal a good amount of damage for cheap. It's not perfect, but it could deal a healthy chunk of damage if you time it right.



She does, actually, and that exact combo does work (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxf8iipHW-s).

It was changed after that. My link is from later in february.

[Kish]

Blizzard said that the mechanic change was not about any card already in the game, but about cards that they wanted to add but were being prevented from adding by game-breaking possibilities involving the player playing the secret and immediately triggering it.

[Frog Dragon]

I hope this means more cards in the near future.

[Olinser]

Blizzard said that the mechanic change was not about any card already in the game, but about cards that they wanted to add but were being prevented from adding by game-breaking possibilities involving the player playing the secret and immediately triggering it.

Which, as far as I know, only really applies to Paladin secrets (and Ice Block, but I honestly can't really think of very many ways to actually trigger Ice Block in a beneficial way on your own turn, and Ice Barrier is totally pointless to trigger on your own turn).

Eye for an Eye and Redemption were often BETTER when used on your own turn than waiting for an opponent to trigger them. This is a huge nerf, to Redemption especially.

[Lionheart]

Going to need your number as well. It can be found in the friends list, in the lower left corner of the screen in-game.

Sorry, yeah, it's 2440.

[Mattarias, King.]

First thought is: I'm not sure that's really a viable theme. There aren't enough fire cards to make it make sense.

That said: obviously 2 x Fireball, 2 x Flamestrike. 2 x Wild Pyromancer, because fire. Try to get Archmage Antonidas, as he gives you a Fireball every time you cast a spell, but he's a Legendary, so will take a lot of luck to get, or a lot of Dust to craft. Alexstrasza is another Legendary, and has a fiery battlecry. Dragons in general are a good match for a Fire theme, I guess, and Fairy Dragon, Azure Drake and Twilight Drake are all good cards. The Demolisher chucks explosive barrels in people's faces...

You'll still want solid regular cards like Sen'jin Shieldmasta and Chillwind Yeti. And you'll still want Polymorph because it's great. (And if you play it with a Pyromancer, whatever you've sheeped dies straight away.)

:smallbiggrin: This sounds awesome! I guess it's time to finish unlocking the other class decks for the neutral cards, and start playing more PvP...


Hey now, if you're actually going with a Fire theme you can't add a creature with 'chill' in its name.

:smallbiggrin: Good point!

[The_Jackal]

Depends what you mean by competitive. You will generally have a very uphill battle without legendaries if you are playing midrange or control, but aggro is very doable. For budget decks which are viable all the way to the top ranks, I'd recommend looking at the following ones:
Reynad Warlock Zoo (http://www.liquidhearth.com/staff/monk/PowerRank/March2014/Reynad_Aggro_Warlock.jpg)
Aggro Hunter (http://www.liquidhearth.com/staff/monk/PowerRank/Feb2013/Aggro_Hunter.png) (aka Faceroll Hunter)
Trump Mage (http://www.liquidhearth.com/staff/monk/PowerRank/March2014/Trump_Budget_Mage.jpg)
Reynad Warrior (http://i.imgur.com/RrAmpGr.png) (this has fallen out of favor and is probably no longer top tier. Should still be good though)

What I mean by competive is a win/loss ration of 50%. None of the decks you list will do that, in my experience. The prevalence of 2 for 1 legendaries in even mid-ranked play is too common. I'm running into Nat Pagle, Sylvannas, Cairne, Tinkmaster Overspark, etc, all the time. I'm running into decks running 4+ epic cards, all the time.

Basically the issue is this: The pool of players who are at the free level play to get their quest done, then they log off. The players who dumped $100+ in packs play ad nauseum.

[Olinser]

:smallbiggrin: This sounds awesome! I guess it's time to finish unlocking the other class decks for the neutral cards, and start playing more PvP...



:smallbiggrin: Good point!

There are also numerous neutral minions that would fit a fire theme, while not actually technically wielding fire.

Definitely fire-related:

Ragnaros the Firelord (duh)
All of the Dragons and Drakes obviously fit - including Faerie Dragon.
Archmage Antonidas gives you more fireballs.
Illidan summons up Flames of Azzinoth
Reckless Rocketeer (riding a flaming rocket)
Core Hound
Kobold Geomancer (candle!!!)
Mad Bomber
Stormpike Commando/Ironforge Rifleman (flintlocks use fire!)
Demolisher (flaming catapult!)
Doomsayer (hey the dude is literally ON FIRE)
Molten Giant
Leeroy Jenkins (hey he summons up fire breathing whelps!)
The Beast (big core hound)



Possible:
Sunfury Protector (hey sunfury sounds pretty fireish)
Shattered Sun Cleric (likewise Sun = Fire)
Sunwalker (third sun = fire)
Sorcerer's Apprentice (Hey come on sorcerers use fire)
Violet Teacher (has lightning... lightning is kind of related to fire)
Imp Master (hey the imps look like they're on fire)


Those are most of the ones I think of. You could probably actually build a decent deck out of them and mage Fire spells.

[Mattarias, King.]

There are also numerous neutral minions that would fit a fire theme, while not actually technically wielding fire.

Definitely fire-related:

Ragnaros the Firelord (duh)
All of the Dragons and Drakes obviously fit - including Faerie Dragon.
Archmage Antonidas gives you more fireballs.
Illidan summons up Flames of Azzinoth
Reckless Rocketeer (riding a flaming rocket)
Core Hound
Kobold Geomancer (candle!!!)
Mad Bomber
Stormpike Commando/Ironforge Rifleman (flintlocks use fire!)
Demolisher (flaming catapult!)
Doomsayer (hey the dude is literally ON FIRE)
Molten Giant
Leeroy Jenkins (hey he summons up fire breathing whelps!)
The Beast (big core hound)



Possible:
Sunfury Protector (hey sunfury sounds pretty fireish)
Shattered Sun Cleric (likewise Sun = Fire)
Sunwalker (third sun = fire)
Sorcerer's Apprentice (Hey come on sorcerers use fire)
Violet Teacher (has lightning... lightning is kind of related to fire)
Imp Master (hey the imps look like they're on fire)


Those are most of the ones I think of. You could probably actually build a decent deck out of them and mage Fire spells.

:smallbiggrin: AWESOME! Thanks so much! I love me some blood elves, so I definitely don't mind any sunfury/shattered sun guys.

I wish Hearthstone had a singleplayer campaign. That would be fun.

[Dada]

What I mean by competive is a win/loss ration of 50%. None of the decks you list will do that, in my experience. The prevalence of 2 for 1 legendaries in even mid-ranked play is too common. I'm running into Nat Pagle, Sylvannas, Cairne, Tinkmaster Overspark, etc, all the time. I'm running into decks running 4+ epic cards, all the time.

Basically the issue is this: The pool of players who are at the free level play to get their quest done, then they log off. The players who dumped $100+ in packs play ad nauseum.

Win/loss rate is actually a bad way of estimating competitiveness. If you lose more than 50% (approximately, win streaks mess this up), then you will decrease in rank and face easier opponents, eventually stabilizing. In the same way, if you win more than 50% you will rise in rank until your win rate drops to about 50% (or you reach the top of the ladder). The interesting point is therefore at which rank any given deck achieves a 50% win rate.

All of the mentioned decks have, at some point, been used by players to reach legendary ranks. They might be less viable now than in their prime, but if you are not able to stabilize at at least rank 10 with any of these decks, then I'd wager that the main issue is not deck quality, but a lack of practice and familiarity.

[Weimann]

Don't know if it's been said before in the thread, but I read in a tip that the custom card backs are gained by reaching rank 20 in a season. Then you get that season's pack. Just an FYI.

[Kish]

Don't know if it's been said before in the thread, but I read in a tip that the custom card backs are gained by reaching rank 20 in a season. Then you get that season's pack. Just an FYI.
I did too. Which has me puzzled, because I was already past that, and I still only have the default card back.

[otakuryoga]

I did too. Which has me puzzled, because I was already past that, and I still only have the default card back.

season isnt over..you could go on a big losing streak and drop :smallwink:

but i thought i read that the reward was given at the end of the season

[jindra34]

season isnt over..you could go on a big losing streak and drop :smallwink:

but i thought i read that the reward was given at the end of the season

You can't drop below 20 though. Its hard programmed in.

[Weimann]

Yeah, I assume you get them at the end of the season, and I agree that it's a bit silly given how it's impossible to fall lower once you're there. But that's how it is, it appears, or I had gotten them by now.

I also got a WoW mount. Hah, nice try, Blizzard. I'm not going back no matter how much swag you toss at me.

[The_Jackal]

Yeah, I assume you get them at the end of the season, and I agree that it's a bit silly given how it's impossible to fall lower once you're there. But that's how it is, it appears, or I had gotten them by now.

I also got a WoW mount. Hah, nice try, Blizzard. I'm not going back no matter how much swag you toss at me.

I think you have it backwards. The WoW mount is there to get WoW players to try Hearthstone, not to get Hearthstone players to get back into WoW.

[Zevox]

I think you have it backwards. The WoW mount is there to get WoW players to try Hearthstone, not to get Hearthstone players to get back into WoW.
It's a cross-promotion, I'm sure it's meant to work both ways. Give WoW players a reason to try Hearthstone, and Hearthstone players a reason to try WoW.

For whatever it's worth, it's a wasted effort on me, too. Free stuff or no, I'm not interested in trying an MMO.

[ShinyRocks]

Well, it worked to the extent that I logged into WoW to redeem it. It really is a very pretty mount. Don't think I'll be playing much WoW, though. Booooored of it at the moment.

Playing my all-female minions deck against a Murlock deck, with nothing but Murlocs, card draw minions and a couple of Voidwalkers. He was down to draw fatigue while I still had 12 cards in hand. And he had a Cult Master on the board. And several other minions. Which I proceeded to take out, leaving the Cult Master til last. One can draw too much. He conceded.

[Togath]

What's a filigree gold border around a card mean?
I found a venture Co. Mercenary with one, in my most recent pack.

[Zevox]

What's a filigree gold border around a card mean?
I found a venture Co. Mercenary with one, in my most recent pack.
Gold cards are mostly the same as regular ones. The main difference is purely aesthetic - it's shiny and has a little animation in the image. The other difference is that it's worth far more dust if you disenchant it than a regular one. Where a common card like Venture Co. normally gives only 5 dust when disenchanted, a gold common gives 50. (For completeness: Rares give 20 normally and 100 when gold, Epics are 100 normal 400 gold, and Legendaries are 400 normal 1600 gold.)

Personally, I disenchant any gold cards I get immediately because of that. Don't see any reason to keep them when I can instead turn them into resources to make specific cards I want.

[Mattarias, King.]

Oh yeah! You can disenchant cards and craft new ones from the dust, right? Huh... Is that really worth it though?

[Zevox]

Oh yeah! You can disenchant cards and craft new ones from the dust, right? Huh... Is that really worth it though?
Oh hell yes. It is far and away easier to get specific cards that you want by crafting than it is by buying packs. This is especially true for the higher rarity cards, but when you're new it's even true of commons to an extent, because there's simply so many commons that you can't count on getting any specific one from packs even though you'll usually get 4 per pack.

Plus, since you can only use two of any card in a deck anyway, the only use of your third+ copy of a card is to disenchant it. This means that once you've got most of the commons, most of your packs are feeding you dust from all the commons you're getting a third copy of anyway.

[Destro_Yersul]

Unless you are a philistine (kidding, Zevox :smalltongue:), dusting cards is only worth it if you already have 2 of them, or 1 for Legendary cards. 2 is the maximum any deck can have, so any extras above and beyond that are worthless.

[Blisstake]

Unless you are a philistine (kidding, Zevox :smalltongue:), dusting cards is only worth it if you already have 2 of them, or 1 for Legendary cards. 2 is the maximum any deck can have, so any extras above and beyond that are worthless.

Well, it's also worth dusting gold cards, if you don't personally care about whether they're gold or not. I also like to dust the legendaries that I wouldn't use in any decks (Loremaster Cho, Gelbin, Elite Tauren Chieftain, etc.)

[AgentPaper]

Well, it's also worth dusting gold cards, if you don't personally care about whether they're gold or not. I also like to dust the legendaries that I wouldn't use in any decks (Loremaster Cho, Gelbin, Elite Tauren Chieftain, etc.)

You can't disenchant promo cards like Gelbin Mekkatorque or Elite Tauren Chieftan, though.

[Krade]

You can't disenchant promo cards like Gelbin Mekkatorque or Elite Tauren Chieftan, though.

Only the Golden versions of those cards are promo. You can craft/disenchant the regular versions like any other card.

[AgentPaper]

Only the Golden versions of those cards are promo. You can craft/disenchant the regular versions like any other card.

Just did a bit of research on this. You can craft the regular versions of the, but you can't get them in packs, so turns out I'm right despite being wrong. :smalltongue:

[Krade]

Just did a bit of research on this. You can craft the regular versions of the, but you can't get them in packs, so turns out I'm right despite being wrong. :smalltongue:

I don't even have a way to respond to that. Why would they not come in packs?

[Zevox]

Well, it's also worth dusting gold cards, if you don't personally care about whether they're gold or not. I also like to dust the legendaries that I wouldn't use in any decks (Loremaster Cho, Gelbin, Elite Tauren Chieftain, etc.)
Yeah. Categories of cards I disenchant immediate would go:

1) 3rd+ copies, or 2nd+ copy of a legendary, if I ever get that. Obvious.
2) Gold cards.
3) Hunter cards (the one I class I do not play nor want to play at all).
4) Legendaries I don't see myself using in a serious deck (because they're worth so much dust). So far I've had two in this category: King Mukla (who was the second legendary I ever got, and I think became my first Pyroblast) and Nozdormu (who I got in the pack from my one 12-2 arena run and used as part of the dust I needed to make Ragnaros).
5) Bad cards I would never use. These are things like Wisp, Young Dragonhawk, Alarm-o-Bot, Ancient Mage, etc.
6) Murlocs. Because I would never run a Murloc deck, and there's no other reason to keep them.

Eventually I'll stop disenchanting cards from categories 4-6, as my collection fills up and I no longer have cards I really want to craft to improve my decks or have additional options for them. On the off chance everything else ever fills up that much I'll stop disenchanting Hunter cards, and then eventually gold cards as well, but that's much less likely to ever happen since we'll surely get expansions adding new cards down the line.

[Eurus]

Wow. I had a zero and three arena run, and the pack I got from it had two rares, an epic, and Alexstraza.

[AgentPaper]

I don't even have a way to respond to that. Why would they not come in packs?

Why would Blizzard decide to do it that way? Or why do I think that that is the case?

For the former, it does seem a bit strange, but I guess it makes sense if you assume that all of the promo cards are meant to be "for fun" and not really viable in play. My best guess is that they keep them out of packs so that they don't have to worry about players being disappointed to get them instead of a normal, competitive rare.

For the latter, I'm going off of this (http://us.battle.net/hearthstone/en/blog/10580505/state-of-the-game-8-7-2013) State of the Game blog post. I suppose it may have changed since then, but I can't find anything to suggest that it has, and certainly haven't heard of anyone opening a Gelbin or ETC, so it seems pretty certain that it's still true.

[Mattarias, King.]

WOO! Beat all the AI opponents! Gul'dan can SUCK IT!

:smallsigh: Holy hell, that took forever... I need a central theme to my deck. Using this (http://hearthstone.blizzpro.com/2014/03/12/hearthstone-newbie-survival-guide/) for now. S'okay. Not enough board clear for my tastes though.

Time to try this arena thing...

Edit: Thanks for the DE-ing advice, guys. I'll do that with any extras I get. :smallsmile:

And yes! :smallbiggrin: I love that you can poke the board and do stuff! Too funny.

[Togath]

Just found out I can interact with the board background... :3

[Destro_Yersul]

Well, it's also worth dusting gold cards, if you don't personally care about whether they're gold or not. I also like to dust the legendaries that I wouldn't use in any decks (Loremaster Cho, Gelbin, Elite Tauren Chieftain, etc.)

As I said. :smalltongue:

[Togath]

How useful are Pint-Sized Summoner and Summoning Portal?
Is it worth having two of both in a minion-focused(midrange I think is the term I'm looking for.. 4-6 mana, correct?) warlock deck, or would that just be overkill?

[Cogwheel]

WOO! Beat all the AI opponents! Gul'dan can SUCK IT!


What, really? I found him trivial. When I was beating up the AI to unlock classes, Malfurion and Garrosh were among the more tiresome ones for me. And then you have Anduin. Anduin is basically the worst.

Probably a symptom of priests being terrible, terrible people (yet I play them anyway).

[Weimann]

How useful are Pint-Sized Summoner and Summoning Portal?
Is it worth having two of both in a minion-focused(midrange I think is the term I'm looking for.. 4-6 mana, correct?) warlock deck, or would that just be overkill?Pint-sized Summoner is considered a useful card. It has decent stats and its card text is particularly useful in early game, where it's comparatively stronger. It has a place in many decks.

Summoning Portal is also useful, but I'm not too familiar with Warlocks, so I can't really tell. My hunch is that it's a bit so-so due to its lack of attack, but in a minion-flood deck it might be useful.

[Dada]

Neither are that great cards. Pint-Sized can be fairly effective if you build your around it - e.g. low amount of 3-drops in exchange for additional 4- and 5- drops - but it is generally not seen in the absolute top tier decks due to its low base stats.

Summoning Portal is too expensive for what it does. At 4 mana you don't really need mana acceleration any longer, and you generally can't even afford to play it on turn 4 since it has no immediate impact on the board. Unlike Pint-Sized it also doesn't do anything by itself - Pint-Sized can at least kill a random Murloc or trade for a Knife Juggler, whereas Summoning Portal will generally be card disadvantage for you.

[Frog Dragon]

That aggro-warlock draft went 6/3. I lost mostly to being out-aggroed.

SCIENCE: 80 gold, 50 dust and a pack. Pack contained Mana Wyrm, Golden Argent Protector, Aldor Peacekeeper, Forked Lightning, and Ice Lance. Most of these are triples.

[Infernally Clay]

Just found out I can interact with the board background... :3

Kinda makes you wish your opponent could see you fiddling with stuff, like loading up the catapult and shooting them with it. >:3

[Kalmageddon]

Kinda makes you wish your opponent could see you fiddling with stuff, like loading up the catapult and shooting them with it. >:3

I have a feeling this is done on purpose, instead of being a feature they haven't had the time to implement.

[Infernally Clay]

They need to change what Mind Control Tech says. It's not "take control of one of your opponent's minions at random", it's "take control of their best card all the time, instantly forcing them to lose the match".

...Except when I use it of course. D':

[The Glyphstone]

"Whichever card would be the biggest board-shift against you by switching control right this moment, it now does."

Except when the other guy nabs your Searing Totem. Though it doesn't help that he's already got Ragnaros in play.

[Corlindale]

Wow, just had by far my most succesful Arena run ever (Druid, 10-3, 350 gold and a pack). My previous best was 6 wins (also druid), so I'm extremely happy with it.

I was also pretty lucky with my deck, the first really well-balanced one I've had. The first time I've really been well-covered with removal (Starfire, Starfall, Wrath, Swipe), card draw (Cult Master, Nourish, Acolyte of Pain), cheap minions (Juggler, raptors, oozes and 3 Scarlet Crusaders) and beef (2 Ironbarks and a Sea Giant). No Ancients, but I guess you can't have everything.


Is is just me, or does everyone play mage in Arena? I think 80% of the opposition for this run were mages, more or less.

[Infernally Clay]

"Whichever card would be the biggest board-shift against you by switching control right this moment, it now does."

Except when the other guy nabs your Searing Totem. Though it doesn't help that he's already got Ragnaros in play.

:smalltongue:

In other, slightly more humorous news, my last opponent played Leeroy Jenkins on turn four to kill my Shieldmasta. I thought that was really silly. On turn seven, since they had somehow still survived, the two Whelps (now 2/2s thanks to Stormwind Champion) dealt the killing blow. I thought that was poetic justice.


Is is just me, or does everyone play mage in Arena? I think 80% of the opposition for this run were mages, more or less.

If Mage is given as an option, there's pretty much no reason not to go Mage. All of its best cards are commons, so you'll frequently have the chance to run more than two Fireballs, Flamestrikes or Frostbolts. It's basically an easy way to get a large number of wins, which in turn means a large amount of gold.

[ShinyRocks]

:smalltongue:

In other, slightly more humorous news, my last opponent played Leeroy Jenkins on turn four to kill my Shieldmasta. I thought that was really silly. On turn seven, since they had somehow still survived, the two Whelps (now 2/2s thanks to Stormwind Champion) dealt the killing blow. I thought that was poetic justice.

Killing a Mage with a Bloodlusted Sheep from Polymorph was probably my favourite. Rarggrgrahharrrrhgh! Mehhhhh! BOOM!

That or using a Houndmaster to turn a Hexed Frog into a 2/3 and deal the killing blow.

[Kish]

:smalltongue:

In other, slightly more humorous news, my last opponent played Leeroy Jenkins on turn four to kill my Shieldmasta. I thought that was really silly.
There's no shortage of people who think Legendaries=Win. On both the "it's a legendary, use it" side and the "it's a legendary, concede and whine on public forums if you see it" side.

[AmberVael]

In other, slightly more humorous news, my last opponent played Leeroy Jenkins on turn four to kill my Shieldmasta. I thought that was really silly. On turn seven, since they had somehow still survived, the two Whelps (now 2/2s thanks to Stormwind Champion) dealt the killing blow. I thought that was poetic justice.

In even more humorous news, one of my latest opponents played Leeroy Jenkins out when they had no other creatures on the board and I had a Knife Juggler. The two summoned whelps ended up knifing the Leeroy before he could do anything.

So... in effect they played a 4 cost card that gave me 2 1/1 creatures. I'll take it! :smalltongue:

[Infernally Clay]

In even more humorous news, one of my latest opponents played Leeroy Jenkins out when they had no other creatures on the board and I had a Knife Juggler. The two summoned whelps ended up knifing the Leeroy before he could do anything.

So... in effect they played a 4 cost card that gave me 2 1/1 creatures. I'll take it! :smalltongue:

Okay, that is awesome. D:

Woo! I'm sitting on 445 gold. Can't even remember the last time I had so much at once. I think a new Arena run is in order. Rather than using the rest to buy packs, I'll save it for future runs. A cushion, of sorts.

[Zevox]

Got my first ever Angry Chicken in a pack today. Considering I've been playing for near on three months, I'd say that's pretty good.

Haven't had much luck with my packs lately, aside from Sylvanas a few days back, so my dust is taking forever to accumulate so I can make that Big Game Hunter I really want for my Druid deck. A bit more than halfway there now though, so some progress at least.


:smallsigh: Holy hell, that took forever... I need a central theme to my deck. Using this (http://hearthstone.blizzpro.com/2014/03/12/hearthstone-newbie-survival-guide/) for now. S'okay. Not enough board clear for my tastes though.
Huh, not quite what I'd have built with an all-soulbound deck, but not bad I guess. Looks like they even built it under the assumption that you didn't have the cards unlocked by leveling up the Mage. Simple suggestions for working them in:

Replace Arcane Explosions with Frostbolt. Arcane Explosions are only good with a spellpower boost, so basically nobody actually uses them. Frostbolt is a staple Mage spell you'll see in basically every Mage deck ever.

Replace Reckless Rocketeers with Flamestrikes. Reckless Rocketeer is basically a Fireball at -1 damage and +2 mana cost - she'll never survive attacking anything worth using her on, and she's easy to kill if you got for the face instead. Not a good card. Flamestrike is great mass removal, good for any mid-range or control Mage.

Replace Stormwind Knights with Water Elementals. Stormwind Knights basically serve one purpose: kill 3/2s. Their attack is too low to do much else. Water Elementals can kill basically anything cost 3 or below, and have utility hitting more expensive things to weaken and freeze them, which they can often survive doing because of their 6 health. They're just a great value.

Frost Nova and Mirror Image I would not advise trying to work into the deck. They're situationally useful, but generally not very good cards overall.

Also, just a general bit of advice, I'd replace the Novice Engineers with Acidic Swamp Oozes. I don't know if that guide was written before the Engineer's nerf or not, but Novice Engineers generally aren't considered very good anymore, while Ooze is one of the better 2-cost minions in the game. You might consider trading Wolfrider for Bloodfen Raptor or Ironfur Grizzly, too - both are average minions for their cost on stats alone, and Wolfrider is another that's more a slightly overpriced removal spell in minion form, like Reckless Rockteer. Not as bad as her though, since his price is more reasonable.

[Ionbound]

See, I disagree on Mirror Image. It's much more useful than the Shieldbearer, especially late-game because it's 2 taunt minions as opposed to 1, and therefore, you're opponent has to either sink AoE, which isn't cheap, or waste two attacks.

[Infernally Clay]

Water Elementals OP. plz nerf. I kid you not! A 3/6 for 4? It's bulkier than Chillwind Yeti, freezes anything it hits and the only drawback is that it has one less attack than the Yeti? That's really not what I'd call a substantial drawback.

Okay! Druid, Paladin or Warrior... I'll go Paladin again.

Sunfury Protector - Mana Addict, Bloodsail Corsair
Knife Juggler - Angry Chicken, Divine Favour
Noble Sacrifice - Ancient Brewmaster, Repentence
Stormwind Champion - Dalaran Mage, Silvermoon Guardian
Boulderfist Ogre - Hand of Protection, Thrallmar Farseer
Cult Master - Amani Berserker, Murloc Raider
Ironfur Grizzly - Lord of the Arena, Murloc Tidecaller
Avenging Wrath - Sword of Justice, Hungry Crab (will kick myself later, probably)
Venture Co. Mercenary - Abusive Sergeant, Grimscale Oracle
Defender of Argus - Abomination, Violet Teacher
Consecration - Stranglethorn Tiger, Lord of the Arena
Hand of Protection - Stonetusk Boar, Reckless Rocketeer
Acidic Swamp Ooze - Ogre Magi, Core Hound
Hammer of Wrath - Truesilver Champion, Core Hound
Guardian of Kings - Ironbeak Owl, Wisp
Lay on Hands - Big Game Hunter, Murloc Warleader
Silver Hand Knight - Wolfrider, Jungle Panther
Frost Elemental - Southsea Deckhand, Redemption
Stormpike Commando - Bloodfen Raptor, Holy Light
Defender of Argus - Imp Master, Ancient Watcher
Venture Co. Mercenary - Faerie Dragon, Kobold Geomancer
Hammer of Wrath - Leper Gnome, Gnomish Inventor
Kobold Geomancer - Redemption, Lord of the Arena
Fen Creeper - Cult Master, Ironbeak Owl
Sen'jin Shieldmasta - Frostwolf Grunt, Boulderfist Ogre
Bloodsail Raider - Gurubashi Berserker, Repentence
Frost Elemental - Reckless Rocketeer, Repentence
Bloodsail Raider - Argent Squire, Amani Berserker
Blessing of Wisdom - Razorfen Hunter, River Crocolisk
Aldor Peacekeeper - Coldlight Oracle, Lightwarden

[Karoht]

In even more humorous news, one of my latest opponents played Leeroy Jenkins out when they had no other creatures on the board and I had a Knife Juggler. The two summoned whelps ended up knifing the Leeroy before he could do anything.

So... in effect they played a 4 cost card that gave me 2 1/1 creatures. I'll take it! :smalltongue:
"Put this apple on your head."
"Leeeeroooooy--" *THWIK* *THWIK*
"...least I got... chicken..."
*Welps look puzzlingly at their new master* "Wwraaaww"

Knife Juggler is best Juggler.

[Dada]

See, I disagree on Mirror Image. It's much more useful than the Shieldbearer, especially late-game because it's 2 taunt minions as opposed to 1, and therefore, you're opponent has to either sink AoE, which isn't cheap, or waste two attacks.

Well, Shieldbearer isn't exactly a good card in itself..

[Infernally Clay]

See, I disagree on Mirror Image. It's much more useful than the Shieldbearer, especially late-game because it's 2 taunt minions as opposed to 1, and therefore, you're opponent has to either sink AoE, which isn't cheap, or waste two attacks.

Mirror Image is an okay card. You're paying a single mana for early game board control and, as you say, two targets are better than one during the early game. To be honest, though, I don't think I'd play Mirror Image unless I had a Mana Wyrm, Gadgetzan Auctioneer or Archmage Antonidas on the board.

[Karoht]

Mirror Image is an okay card. You're paying a single mana for early game board control and, as you say, two targets are better than one during the early game. To be honest, though, I don't think I'd play Mirror Image unless I had a Mana Wyrm, Gadgetzan Auctioneer or Archmage Antonidas on the board.
Wyrm + Image is an excellent Turn 2 play or coined Turn 1. Still, an AoE could be bad news so beware.

[Kish]

Water Elementals OP. plz nerf. I kid you not! A 3/6 for 4? It's bulkier than Chillwind Yeti, freezes anything it hits and the only drawback is that it has one less attack than the Yeti? That's really not what I'd call a substantial drawback.
You're comparing a class card to a neutral card. Whenever you do that and don't get "the class card is unambiguously better," it means a change is in order, in my opinion.

*muttermumbleRagnaros*

[jindra34]

Mirror Image is an okay card. You're paying a single mana for early game board control and, as you say, two targets are better than one during the early game. To be honest, though, I don't think I'd play Mirror Image unless I had a Mana Wyrm, Gadgetzan Auctioneer or Archmage Antonidas on the board.

Or Knife Juggler. After all more minions=more knives.

[Dada]

You're comparing a class card to a neutral card. Whenever you do that and don't get "the class card is unambiguously better," it means a change is in order, in my opinion.

*muttermumbleRagnaros*

Both Houndmaster and Kor'Kron Elite are only situationally better than Yeti and Taz'Dingo. Windspeaker and Master of Disguise are almost always worse (though Master of Disguise is a rare and allows for some cute tricks).

[Frog Dragon]

Arena again.

Shaman/ROGUE/Druid

STAMPEDING KODO/Imp Master/Twilight Drake
All of these are great, but I really like the kodo.

BOULDERFIST OGRE/Betrayal/Leper Gnome
One of the best neutral beef cards.

EVISCERATE/Chillwind Yeti/Sprint
Yeti is yeti, but a comboed eviscerate is incredibly cost effective removal I think I'll pass on yeti, just this once.

Stormwind Knight/ASSASSIN's BLADE/Vanish
Assassin's Blade is good, though you don't want many of them.

Goldshire Footman/Shiv/SPRINT
Some draw power.

Sap/Young Dragonhawk/WAR GOLEM
Sap is a great path to card disadvantage and not killing things. Taking war golem.

Frostwolf Warlord/Betrayal/DEFIAS RINGLEADER
This is our town, scrub!

Vanish/DEADLY POISON/Defias Ringleader
Poison is really great. It turns my knife into a fiery war axe and my assassin's blade into an arcanite reaper.

Stormpike Commando/HARVEST GOLEM/Dire Wolf Alpha
Golem is value.

Preparation/SOUTHSEA CAPTAIN/Doomsayer
3/3 for 3 is fine, and in a rogue draft I might actually pick up some pirates.

SPELLBREAKER/Jungle Panther/Nightblade
Silence is good to have, and the body here is solid.

Darkscale Healer/Abusive Sergeant/SCARLET CRUSADER
Another great three-drop.

Darkscale Healer/ANCIENT BREWMASTER/Dragonling Mechanic
Even disregarding the potential utility of the battlecry, 5/4 for 4 is quite solid.

GNOMISH INVENTOR/Oasis Snapjaw/Conceal
More draw. Inventor is good.

PRIESTESS OF ELUNE/Sap/Shieldbearer
Blech. Priestess is a little better in rogue though, since rogues facecheck a lot and have no native heals.

Goldshire Footman/Grimscale Oracle/SINISTER STRIKE
WHYYYYYYY??? :smallannoyed: This is even worse than my usual "bottom of the barrel" card picks.

STORMWIND CHAMPION/Stormpike Commando/Wisp
Stormwind is fine lategame.

Windfury Harpy/Mogu'shan Warden/EARTHEN RING FARSEER
Earthen Ring is good.

Stormwind Champion/Abusive Sergeant/EVISCERATE
Eviscerate is still great.

SUNWALKER/Stampeding Kodo/Defender of Argus
This is actually very close, but I'll go Sunwalker here.

RAGING WORGEN/Sprint/Reckless Rocketeer
Too much sprint is not good, so I'll take worgen.

Raid Leader/CHILLWIND YETI/Stonetusk Boar
Yeti is yeti is good.

Dire Wolf Alpha/DEADLY POISON/Conceal
Deadly poison is good.

Violet Teacher/Stampeding Kodo/ARGENT COMMANDER
Argent Commander is just great. Almost always 2-for-1s.

Bloodfen Raptor/Goldshire Footman/FAERIE DRAGON
Yay, a 2-drop.

Faerie Dragon/Fen Creeper/DEFIAS RINGLEADER
Some more scrubs.

RAGING WORGEN/Abusive Sergeant/Fan of Knives
Worgen still solid.

Sen'jin Shieldmasta/Gnomish Inventor/WORGEN INFILTRATOR
This is a curve pick. I need early-game.

Nightblade/Sinister Strike/IRONFUR GRIZZLY
3 points of hero damage, away with you!

Lightwarden/BLADE FLURRY/Alarm-o-bot
I have some synergy for blade flurry, and the other two are terrible.
Curve is 0/4/6/7/4/2/4/3/0/0/0. Creature curve is 0/1/3/7/4/1/4/2/0/0/0. I have basically the absolute minimum of early drops, but I do have deadly poisons. Unfortunately, I didn't get any backstabs or assassinates in this draft, and I had to take a couple of garbage cards. Still, it's not a bad draft.

[Kish]

Both Houndmaster and Kor'Kron Elite are only situationally better than Yeti and Taz'Dingo. Windspeaker and Master of Disguise are almost always worse (though Master of Disguise is a rare and allows for some cute tricks).
Was that meant to express disagreement? In light of the thread-naming ubiquity of the Sen'jin Shieldmasta, I do wonder if its remaining unnerfed to this point has any reason beyond "Blizzard would prefer not to deal with the inevitable chorus of eardrum-shattering screams that would follow."

[Frog Dragon]

Taz'dingo is good, but it doesn't have the ubiquity of something like harvest golem. Taz'dingo is one of the few really good neutral taunts, and it's certainly a strong card, but it's not that ubiquitous. Actually, the vast majority of decks don't run Taz'dingo.

[Infernally Clay]

I'm not sure there's anything worse than an Arena run ending because of Ysera. D':

[Loreweaver15]

Currently at 10-2 in Arena due to a misclick where I used my hero power instead of my Gladiator's Longbow. Preserving my best Arena deck here for posterity before I continue:

http://i58.tinypic.com/fz3w2b.png

[Lighturtle]

Is it worth having two of both in a minion-focused(midrange I think is the term I'm looking for.. 4-6 mana, correct?) warlock deck, or would that just be overkill?

Summoning portal can be awesome but you have to build your entire deck over it. That means stuff that can trade up early, stuff that costs more than 1 mana if possible, and stuff that can defend it.

Also, you should probably never drop it turn 4, except if it's your only possible play or you are positive it will survive.

If he survives more than the turn you drop it the overwhelming mana advantage means you have probably won.

Mind chargers (argent commander comes to mind) that can kill it "for free".

Removal on it is ok, that helps you win the mana advantage, provided you got some use out of it first.

It can be useful to carry stuff that gives attack (alpha wolf, raid leader, shattered sun, STOOORMWIN) so you can get some use out of it while silenced.

Don't run pint-sized with it, that's overkill.

A cult master can help you trade your board into more card you can summon immediately with the portal, like some sort of weird hunter. Don't expect the CM to survive next turn, he almost never does.

[Loreweaver15]

Went 12-2! SCIENCE:

http://i59.tinypic.com/20rse92.png

[Dada]

Was that meant to express disagreement? In light of the thread-naming ubiquity of the Sen'jin Shieldmasta, I do wonder if its remaining unnerfed to this point has any reason beyond "Blizzard would prefer not to deal with the inevitable chorus of eardrum-shattering screams that would follow."

It was meant to illustrate that class-specific 4-drops aren't generally strictly better than the neutral alternatives, so the fact that Water Elemental is stronger is in fact worth noticing.

[AgentPaper]

It was meant to illustrate that class-specific 4-drops aren't generally strictly better than the neutral alternatives, so the fact that Water Elemental is stronger is in fact worth noticing.

Water Elemental isn't strictly better than Chillwind Yeti either, though. 1 toughness and freeze on hit can be better than 1 attack in some cases, and in some cases the 1 attack is more important. Water Elemental is probably a bit better, but it's not like it completely out-classes it either.

[Dada]

Water Elemental isn't strictly better than Chillwind Yeti either, though. 1 toughness and freeze on hit can be better than 1 attack in some cases, and in some cases the 1 attack is more important. Water Elemental is probably a bit better, but it's not like it completely out-classes it either.

I messed "strictly better" and "unambiguously better" up there, my bad. Still, even though both statements are arguable, Water Elemental is probably the only 4-drop which is directly comparable to Yeti, and that is saying something.

[Frog Dragon]

Loreweaver, could you please put that in a spoiler tag? It stretches the screen.

[Infernally Clay]

Oh mah glob! This Arena draft is nuts already. The first and fifth cards were both Legendaries. The first selection was Leeroy, Antonidas or Sylvanas and I picked Antonidas. Now it's Ragnaros, Antonidas or Baron Geddon and I think I'd be silly to not pick Ragnaros.

The deck in full:

Arcane Missiles
Ice Lance
Mirror Image
Mana Wyrm x2
Frostbolt x2
Acidic Swamp Ooze
Dire Wolf Alpha
Ironbeak Owl
Loot Hoarder
Arcane Intellect
Frost Nova
Mirror Entity
Harvest Golem
Shattered Sun Cleric
Cone of Cold
Fireball x2
Ancient Mage
Chillwind Yeti
Dragonling Mechanic
Violet Teacher
Azure Drake
Stampeding Kodo
Lord of the Arena
Flamestrike
Archmage Antonidas
Stormwind Champion
Ragnaros the Firelord

That's 18 minions to 12 spells. I would've picked something better than Ice Lance and Cone of Cold but poor spells are better than really poor minions and they at least have synergy with each other.

[Weimann]

arena draft lets go yay

Priest | Paladin | Warrior (All classes I like... let's go Priest. On a hunch.)

Ragnaros the Firelord | Deathwing | Gruul (Well, that's one way to start. I'm tempted to go Deathwing. Ragnaros is probably more value, but... damn it, I'm having the dragon.)

Stranglethorn Tiger | Flesheating Ghoul | Thoughtsteal

Elven Archer | War Golem | Frost Elemental (A single-target Freeze effect does not make up for 5/5 for 6.)

Stormwind Champion | Frostwolf Grunt | Youthful Brewmaster (Getting the heavies early this time.)

Tauren Warrior | Silver Hand Knight | Murloc Tidehunter

Mind Blast | Silver Hand Knight | Harvest Golem

Frostwolf Grunt | Raid Leader | Priestess of Elune (Here, I think the Grunt. I have no 2-drops, and it's actually kind of useful as a cheat meat wall to soak a hit late game.)

Dalaran Mage | Lord of the Arena | Shadow Word: Death

Murloc Tidehunter | Dragonling Mechanic | Lord of the Arena

Angry Chicken | Pint-sized Summoner | Bloodsail Corsair (CHICKEN! But I can't count on getting health buffs. Having the gnome.)

River Crocolisk | Mind Control | Booty Bay Bodyguard (This is pretty hard in fact. I still think I want the Mind Control, but Crocolisk is kind of neat.)

Divine Spirit | Silvermoon Guardian | Dread Corsair (Because I have some heavies).

Archmage | Circle of Healing | Southsea Deackhand

Acolyte of Pain | Frostwolf Warlord | Mindblast

Ogre Magi | Jungle Panther | Shattered Sun Cleric

Shadow Form | Cabal Soul Priest | Hungry Crab (I've heard bad things about Shadow Form, but it's still 2xFireblast for a card. I don't have any real healing synergy. But the Soul Priest is cool... but Shadow Form.)

River Crocolisk | Faerie Dragon | Chillwind Yeti

Stormwind Knight | Silverback Patriarch | Stormpike Commando

Inner Fire | Lord of the Arena | Stonetusk Boar (Eh... don't know here. A surprising number of minions have equal attack and health already and I've no real way of buffing health either. I think Lord.)

Knife Juggler | Young Priestess | Violet Teacher (Strong 2-drop.)

Sunfury Protector | Lightwell | Violet Teacher

Loot Hoarder | Power Word: Shield | Shadow Word: Pain (That card just too annoying.)

Shieldbearer | Worgen Infiltrator | Holy Nova

Kobold Geomancer | Stranglethorn Tiger | Mind Control (Don't think I can support two Mind Control.)

Holy Fire | Ancient Mage | Murloc Tidecaller

Holy Nova | Magma Rager | Kobold Geomancer

Thoughtsteal | Mind Control | Wisp

Silence | Frostwolf Warlord | Razorfen Hunter

Holy Smite | Faerie Dragon | Holy Nova

Master Swordsmith | Mass Dispel | Holy Fire

this will suck

[Destro_Yersul]

If Mage is given as an option, there's pretty much no reason not to go Mage. All of its best cards are commons, so you'll frequently have the chance to run more than two Fireballs, Flamestrikes or Frostbolts. It's basically an easy way to get a large number of wins, which in turn means a large amount of gold.

It's weird, but Mage is actually my second-worst class in Arena, behind Warrior but ahead of Warlock. I have only 63% win rate with mage, and I've never had 12 wins with one. My best are Priest and Rogue, with Druid coming in third.

[Weimann]

Yeah, I god damn hate playing Mage as well. I know it should be good, but I just can't get it to work.

[Weimann]

this will suckTurns out this was true. Currently at 1-2. The win was purely Deathwing and cheap as hell. Essentially, I was down to 2 hp, topdecked Deathwing, 3 turns later I won. So cheap.

[ShinyRocks]

I think Deathwing was probably the worst of the three. He's a Hail Mary and he can win games, like you've found, but Ragnaros is just obscenely good, and if they can't take out Gruul quickly he becomes pretty scary pretty quickly, and effectively heals himself for 1 every turn.

I had a weird Arena run. My Priest draft included Prophet Velen and Ysera, but I still only managed to go 4/3. I had no Taunt. The only Taunt I was offered the entire draft was one Silverback Patriarch. The games I lost I just lost to horrible draw. Mulligan the whole hand and still have nothing to play until turn 4 kind of draw. I wasn't that low on 2s and 3s, but I guess I didn't have loads of them.

Got a pack, 50 gold and 60 gold. Pack was junk. Bought another pack. That was also junk, but at least contained my second Fairy Dragon.

[Kish]

I think Deathwing was probably the worst of the three.
I agree. I had a similar choice in my most recent arena match: Deathwing, Cenarius, or Gruul. I picked Gruul, and don't regret it at all.

[Loreweaver15]

I think it's probably because Mage tools are haphazard at best in the Arena to a degree that the other classes don't really suffer from, and so Mage herself is worse in the Arena by a fair bit.

[The_Jackal]

Both Houndmaster and Kor'Kron Elite are only situationally better than Yeti and Taz'Dingo. Windspeaker and Master of Disguise are almost always worse (though Master of Disguise is a rare and allows for some cute tricks).

Or Summoning Portal or Pit Lord? Yes, Water Elemental is arguably the best 4 drop in the game, for the class that's arguably the strongest in the game to begin with (though I could make some good arguments for Paladin and Druid).


I think it's probably because Mage tools are haphazard at best in the Arena to a degree that the other classes don't really suffer from, and so Mage herself is worse in the Arena by a fair bit.

That is the opposite of true (http://www.arenamastery.com/sitewide.php). Paladin and Mage are unambiguously the strongest Heroes too pick in the Arena, mostly by virtue of the flexibility and efficiency of their hero powers.

[Zevox]

See, I disagree on Mirror Image. It's much more useful than the Shieldbearer, especially late-game because it's 2 taunt minions as opposed to 1, and therefore, you're opponent has to either sink AoE, which isn't cheap, or waste two attacks.
Being better than Shieldbearer does not mean much. Mirror Image is really only good in very select circumstances - primarily as an early play alongside Mana Wyrm in an aggressive Mage deck. There it pumps Mana Wyrm and gives him protection from minions for a turn or two, allowing him to deal damage to the enemy's face if they don't have a spell to remove him with. Otherwise? It's basically a minor delay card. A "lose slower" card, as some call them - and not even as good at that as something like Frost Nova.


Or Summoning Portal or Pit Lord? Yes, Water Elemental is arguably the best 4 drop in the game, for the class that's arguably the strongest in the game to begin with (though I could make some good arguments for Paladin and Druid).
Actually, Mage is presently one of the weakest classes at top levels of play, based on what decks do well at tournaments. It's the second least used (http://hearthstonetopdeck.com/) class among decks that place well in tournaments, only ahead of Priests. By far the most used is Druid, with Shaman and Warlock vying for second.

Also, there's at least a couple of other 4-drops that would have good arguments for being the best in the game: Defender of Argus and Keeper of the Grove. Possibly Twilight Drake, too, albeit only in control decks. The 4-cost slot is just chock full of great cards.

[Loreweaver15]

Ooh. Oooooh. I'm gonna force that Hunter win average up.

[Zevox]

Ooh. Oooooh. I'm gonna force that Hunter win average up.
Uh, if you're referring to the site I just linked, that's not how that works. That site compiles deck lists of decks that place in the top 4-8 of tournaments. The percentage on the side is the percentage of its decks compiled since the most recent patch that have been from each class. So, unless you start going to major tournaments and placing near the top with a Hunter deck among your decks, you have no way to affect that.

[Cogwheel]

It's hard for me to reconcile 'Priests are bad' with how completely ridiculous and cruel they are.


Edit: Northshire Cleric is the best 1-drop and I will accept no argument.

[AgentPaper]

Edit: Northshire Cleric is the best 1-drop and I will accept no argument.

Eh, not really. It can go nuts if your opponent doesn't have an answer for it or does something stupid like throw out a bunch of 2/1s and 1/1s for it to eat, but there are a lot of cards that counter it pretty hard, namely all of those 3/2 for 2s like Knife Juggler and Faerie Dragon, plus removal like Fiery War Axe or Frostbolt. Even a 2/1 can take her out if backed up by a hero power.

It's the best 1-drop for a control/midrange deck, certainly, but Argent Squire and all of the 2/1s are better for aggro decks. And since 1-drops are much more important for aggro decks than they are for any other, I'm pretty sure that makes Murloc Raider an overall better card than Northshire Cleric. :smalltongue:

[Krade]

Soo... it just let me swap quests as much as I wanted. I just kept hitting the button until the 100 gold one came up.

Is this a bug or a feature? Because I gotta say I don't mind it.

[Cogwheel]

Eh, not really. It can go nuts if your opponent doesn't have an answer for it or does something stupid like throw out a bunch of 2/1s and 1/1s for it to eat, but there are a lot of cards that counter it pretty hard, namely all of those 3/2 for 2s like Knife Juggler and Faerie Dragon, plus removal like Fiery War Axe or Frostbolt. Even a 2/1 can take her out if backed up by a hero power.

It's the best 1-drop for a control/midrange deck, certainly, but Argent Squire and all of the 2/1s are better for aggro decks. And since 1-drops are much more important for aggro decks than they are for any other, I'm pretty sure that makes Murloc Raider an overall better card than Northshire Cleric. :smalltongue:

...Shh. Let me keep my delusions.

[Krade]

Soo... it just let me swap quests as much as I wanted. I just kept hitting the button until the 100 gold one came up.

Is this a bug or a feature? Because I gotta say I don't mind it.

Aaand it's GONE!

Oh well. Couldn't have expected it to stick around, I guess. I wonder what could have caused it.

[Loreweaver15]

Uh, if you're referring to the site I just linked, that's not how that works. That site compiles deck lists of decks that place in the top 4-8 of tournaments. The percentage on the side is the percentage of its decks compiled since the most recent patch that have been from each class. So, unless you start going to major tournaments and placing near the top with a Hunter deck among your decks, you have no way to affect that.

I thought that was supposed to be a set of Arena records?

[Raddish]

I am looking through those decks to see what I can with my own to make them any better.

[Infernally Clay]

Northshire Cleric is the best 1-drop and I will accept no argument.

I dunno... I think it's a toss up between Worgen Infiltrator and Blood Imp. Both are stealthed so they're really hard to get rid of, with one trading up with most two drops and even a six drop while the other just makes everything harder to kill until it finally dies.

[Zevox]

Arg. You know those moments when you have a game won and then make a stupid mistake and lose it anyway? Yeah, just had one of those.

Warlock vs Druid matchup, me as the Warlock. Long match between two control decks, he's at 6 health, I'm at 5. I've just spent a turn wiping out his board with Twisting Nether and then building mine with two Molten Giants and a Faerie Dragon. He makes a desperate play to stay alive: Faceless one of my giants, two Sunfury Protectors, Innervate, Power of the Wild for the buff. So I have to get through a 9/9 taunt and a 3/4 taunt to win. I see I can do this thanks to my Hellfire.

Problem: I then proceed to play Hellfire, completely forgetting that I would have to crash Faerie Dragon into the taunting Sunfury Protector first in order to kill it, because Hellfire will kill the Faerie Dragon. So I'm left with two Molten giants vs three things on his board, no more removal in my hand, and 2 health. I end up killing myself with hero power out of shame.

[Olinser]

I dunno... I think it's a toss up between Worgen Infiltrator and Blood Imp. Both are stealthed so they're really hard to get rid of, with one trading up with most two drops and even a six drop while the other just makes everything harder to kill until it finally dies.

Leper Gnome and Abusive Sergeant are the best 1 drops in aggro decks. Leper Gnome because even if he gets pinged by a spell or power, your opponent has basically given you tempo advantage and still loses 2 life, and both of them are still useful if they don't hit on turn 1.

Worgen Infiltrator is OK, but I'd still consider it a distant 3rd.

Blood Imp is for a different kind of deck, and while pretty good, his usefulness is somewhat limited by the fact that he dies to a Warlock's board clear (Hellfire).

[Cogwheel]

I will admit that I am also a huge fan of Leper Gnome.

[Zevox]

Leper Gnome and Abusive Sergeant are the best 1 drops in aggro decks. Leper Gnome because even if he gets pinged by a spell or power, your opponent has basically given you tempo advantage and still loses 2 life, and both of them are still useful if they don't hit on turn 1.

Worgen Infiltrator is OK, but I'd still consider it a distant 3rd.

Blood Imp is for a different kind of deck, and while pretty good, his usefulness is somewhat limited by the fact that he dies to a Warlock's board clear (Hellfire).
I'd say Worgen Infiltrator is best for a control deck, actually. Stealth allows it to trade with the target of your choice, barring indirect removal, which usually doesn't show up for a fair few turns. I've been running them in my Mage control deck, and it's been surprising how many times I end up with it just sitting on the board for five turns or more before I get a good opportunity to use it. I actually think it gets my opponents to make worse moves in an effort to avoiding letting it kill a 3/2 sometimes. And of course in Mage it can combine with hero power to take out something with 3 health, too.

Oh, and speaking of Mage, another candidate for best 1-drop would definitely be Mana Wyrm. It's pretty easy for him to end up as a 3/3, equivalent to a 3-drop, especially in the more aggressive Mage decks that run Arcane Missiles and Mirror Image specifically to support him.

[Dada]

I'd give it to Argent Squire and possibly Voidwalker in control decks personally. Both are really good at slowing the game down and Argent Squire in particular will often allow you to get rid of the various x/1 creatures used by Hunter Aggro.

[Zevox]

I'd give it to Argent Squire and possibly Voidwalker in control decks personally. Both are really good at slowing the game down and Argent Squire in particular will often allow you to get rid of the various x/1 creatures used by Hunter Aggro.
Maybe, but they're not going to have much impact at all against other control decks, and are iffy against more mid-range decks as well. Plus, honestly, getting rid of Hunter's x/1 minions isn't the issue - it's getting taunt in their way, because every damn thing they run has charge anyway, so they don't actually care if you kill their things right away. As far as they're concerned it's just a bonus if you don't.

[Dada]

Well, you don't run 1-drops to win the control and mid-range matchups, you run more card advantage and lategame cards to win those. So judging 1-drops by their performance in those matchups isn't really fair.

Sure, Hunter aggro is okay with only getting 2 damage from a Bluegill Warrior and 3 from a Wolfrider, but if you let them live just one additional turn, that goes from 5 total damage to 10, which is basically an autoloss, taunts or no. Defender of Argus, Taz'Dingo and Sunwalker doesn't mean you can afford to let their charge creatures live.

[Zevox]

Well, you don't run 1-drops to win the control and mid-range matchups, you run more card advantage and lategame cards to win those. So judging 1-drops by their performance in those matchups isn't really fair.

Sure, Hunter aggro is okay with only getting 2 damage from a Bluegill Warrior and 3 from a Wolfrider, but if you let them live just one additional turn, that goes from 5 total damage to 10, which is basically an autoloss, taunts or no. Defender of Argus, Taz'Dingo and Sunwalker doesn't mean you can afford to let their charge creatures live.
True - but literally anything can kill those minions. Argent Squire is particularly good at it due to divine shield, but you certainly don't need her to handle them.

[Dada]

No, but if you're running a 1-drop in a control- or mid-range deck, then that is a concession you've made to improve your matchup against aggresive decks (Mana Wyrm is possibly an exception to this). Then you really should choose the creature which most efficiently allows you to deal with the current aggro decks. I can see cases where Worgen Infiltrator would be the better anti-aggro choice but in the current meta, Argent Squire deals with the relevant threats more efficiently.

[Zevox]

No, but if you're running a 1-drop in a control- or mid-range deck, then that is a concession you've made to improve your matchup against aggresive decks (Mana Wyrm is possibly an exception to this). Then you really should choose the creature which most efficiently allows you to deal with the current aggro decks. I can see cases where Worgen Infiltrator would be the better anti-aggro choice but in the current meta, Argent Squire deals with the relevant threats more efficiently.
Some of them. I don't know about you, but I've been seeing more Warlock aggro than Hunter lately, and against those, Argent Squire is more iffy. There you're either up against Murlocs, which Squire is good against some (Tidehunter, Grimscale Oracle, Raider) but not against others (Tidecaller, Coldlight Seer, Warleader). Or you're up against generic aggro, with lots of neutrals plus Flame Imp and Voidwalker, and there Squire will really only help against Young Priestess - who at the same time is making other things harder for Squire to deal with. In that matchup in particular I'd much rather have the Worgen.

[Infernally Clay]

Well that's neat... So now I can freely switch between regions. Apparently I was signed up for the Americas all along, so going to the European servers means I can start from scratch. Which I'm actually okay with giving a try. All that gold you get for stuff like beating the Expert AI and whatnot will come in handy, especially now that I'm much better at the game.

[Loreweaver15]

MurLock aggro just outright eats Hunter Aggro from what I've encountered. Unless I'm doing it wrong.

[Dada]

To be fair, I haven't tested Infiltrator against Murlocs or Zoo, so the following is basically theorycrafting.

Against Murlocs, I'd give the edge to the Squire, but it's fairly close. Squire is better at killing 1-toughness Murlocs, but Infiltrator can take out a Tidecaller with one hit.

Against Zoo, Squire is okay. Shieldbearer and Voidwalker shuts him down hard, but pinging the Shield off a Scarlet Crusader or cleaning up after Harvest Golems can be crucical. Infiltrator is likewise shut down by Shieldbearer and Voidwalker, but has the advantage of trading with Knife Juggler and Flame Imp. On the other hand, you have to trade it in as soon as Knife Juggler hits the table or you risk losing him to a random knife. I'd give a slight edge to Infiltrator but probably wouldn't run either with the goal of improving the Zoo matchup.

[Math_Mage]

I see that Mana Wyrm has been brought up, and yet it's not even in the discussion of best 1-drop. For shame.

[Loreweaver15]

But guys, Goldshire Footman is obviously the best one-drop!

[Cogwheel]

But guys, Goldshire Footman is obviously the best one-drop!

He's a taunter who, for the same mana cost, literally hits infinitely harder than Shieldbearer. There's no contest, really.

[Nerocite]

He's a taunter who, for the same mana cost, literally hits infinitely harder than Shieldbearer. There's no contest, really.

Wisp costs 0 mana, so it has infinite value compared to any 1 drop. Clearly the winner here.

[Cogwheel]

Wisp costs 0 mana, so it has infinite value compared to any 1 drop. Clearly the winner here.

Let me tell you about Innervate.

[The Glyphstone]

Innervate x2, Wisp x2, Coin. Most mana-efficient opening hand ever.

[Cogwheel]

Innervate x2, Wisp x2, Coin. Most mana-efficient opening hand ever.

Meanwhile I'm the guy who Coins into double Dust Devil.

[Weimann]

So, it turns out that when you switch regions from EU to USA, your game progression does not come along. I'm trying right now and I'm right back to the tutorials. Not sure if it has potential or if it's just annoying yet.

[Xondoure]

Here to report a victory I feel pretty bad about. I'm playing Paladin against a Warlock in arena. He's had the edge over me most of the game. He has three minions (Mind control tech, (my) dark iron dwarf, and an ancient brewmaster) To match my three (Core hound, Argent Protector, and a recruit.) Only he has 4 cards to my 2 and 21 health to my 5. I've got a Boulderfist Ogre and a Gnomish Inventor in hand. I play the inventor and draw blessed champion. Proceed to deal exactly 21 damage and laugh maniacally. Then feel bad about it.

[Togath]

How viable is hunter control?
Using things like their traps, secret keeper, ironfur grizzly, and beastmaster to control the field while whittling away at their life via burn spells/abilities/secret keeper.

And in a similar vein... Any advice for a warlock aggro deck?
Both voidwalker and blood imp were brought up so far, as was hellfire(which sounds like it is actually somewhat useful, aye?).. Any other warlock cards that would be good to start gathering?

[ChaosArchon]

So I noticed a few pages back there was a dicusssion on the worst card in the game and I have to say I think it might just be naturalize. It the worst removal i know (gives your opponent a card advantage), and i played against a druid yesterday who ran two of them vs my control mage deck (<3 antondias) and he used it on my chillwind yeti... I felt so bad for him when i played nat payle and the 3 drop mage spell that lets u draw 2 cards (the name escapes me) right after that :P i had a card adv the whole game

[Math_Mage]

So I noticed a few pages back there was a dicusssion on the worst card in the game and I have to say I think it might just be naturalize. It the worst removal i know (gives your opponent a card advantage), and i played against a druid yesterday who ran two of them vs my control mage deck (<3 antondias) and he used it on my chillwind yeti... I felt so bad for him when i played nat payle and the 3 drop mage spell that lets u draw 2 cards (the name escapes me) right after that :P i had a card adv the whole game
"Kill Ragnaros for 1 mana" is often worth the card disadvantage. Not so much that it sees common play, mind, but I don't think any impactful card is worse than zero-impact cards like Wisp.

[Lighturtle]

Any other warlock cards that would be good to start gathering?

Flame imp is an obvious staple, and you might consider doomguard. For spells you have demonfire and coil and maybe power overwhelming. Warlock cards are usually terribad so that's about it.

[Dada]

And in a similar vein... Any advice for a warlock aggro deck?
Both voidwalker and blood imp were brought up so far, as was hellfire(which sounds like it is actually somewhat useful, aye?).. Any other warlock cards that would be good to start gathering?

Hellfire is fairly strong, but usually not in aggro decks since it will clear your side of the board as well. A couple of pages ago I linked to budget decks, one of which is Reynads Zoo deck which is a competitive Warlock aggro deck. In general, Warlock aggro isn't so much based around Warlock cards (even though Flame Imp is great) as they are based around the Warlock hero power. You can afford to lose card advantage to Soulfire and fill your deck with cheap creatures only since you can keep drawing more pressure.

[Infernally Clay]

When it comes to Warlock, just stay clear of anything that discards cards as a drawback. If it damages you to play it, that's fine... Flame Imp is a strong turn one play and even Pit Lord can be a solid minion if your opponent was thinking about playing a Sen'jin Shieldmasta or Chillwind Yeti. Even Void Terror is a good card to have if you have Power Overwhelming and maybe Shadowflame as well, but I feel that's the kind of combo that you build a deck around and you definitely need to carry two Earthen Ring Farseers and two Siphon Souls in any Warlock deck - that's another 12 health you'll have to play with, plus you get to destroy minions and put 3/3s on the board.

When it comes to cards that discard other cards, it's just a complete waste and made worse by the fact that basically all of those cards are kinda pants anyway...

[Dada]

Both Soulfire and Doomguard are very playable cards..

[Loreweaver15]

Hell, Soulfire is a "You only need to get your opponent to 4 life instead of 0" card.

[The_Jackal]

Both Soulfire and Doomguard are very playable cards..

Sure, because they're 'final turn' cards. No other reason, however.

[Dada]

False. Both give you a huge tempo lead and allows you to break through your opponents defences so they cannot stabilize.

[Math_Mage]

Sure, because they're 'final turn' cards. No other reason, however.
No, because they're frighteningly tempo-efficient, Warlock has draw on a stick, and they can be played as the last card in hand without drawback.

Succubus, now, Succubus is pretty mediocre. A 2-drop that costs 2 cards shouldn't trade evenly with most other playable 2-drops.

[AgentPaper]

Soulfire is actually quite good, one of warlocks better cards, though only if you're playing aggro. In that case, you're either using it for lethal in which case the discard is irrelevant, or you're using it as the last card in your hand (because you dumped the rest on the field), and again the discard is irrelevant.

[Weimann]

I think discard effects are generally not worth it unless you're winning that turn or the next. Discarding a card isn't just quantitatively bad, but qualitatively as well. What if you discard a Yeti or an Ogre, which often trade for at least two each? Suddenly you have to trade three with that card just to get even, four if you want to be effective. That's a worst-case scenario, of course, but it's why I don't like discard.

[The_Jackal]

False. Both give you a huge tempo lead and allows you to break through your opponents defences so they cannot stabilize.

The doomguard is easily contained with big taunters or hard removal. Soulfire is just a removal spell. If you can empty your hand before you drop them, then they're fantastic, as you then have completely negated their drawbacks. The problem with that plan is that if you stack them, you're likely to get both in the same hand, at which point they effectively block each other. I don't think they're bad cards, but they're definitely in the vein of 'win more' cards.

If Doomguard were so amazing, it would be in more than 20% of warlock decks on Hearthhead. Soulfire IS in most warlock decks, but I'd venture that's because it's removal, not because of any native merit of the discard mechanic. In effect, unless you can meet the conditions of a) the card wins the game for you or b) you play it from an empty hand, it compares unfavorably to a normal 'costs mana' card.


No, because they're frighteningly tempo-efficient, Warlock has draw on a stick, and they can be played as the last card in hand without drawback.

This is definitely true, but then you're sacrificing the tempo you gained by playing the card in the first place. Look: Soulfire is a good card. But I feel mostly that's because because it's a DD spell, and under optimal conditions (playing it on an otherwise empty hand) it's amazeballs.

[Infernally Clay]

Both Soulfire and Doomguard are very playable cards..

Not in most scenarios. If you have anything even remotely valuable in your hand, you can't play them because you're almost guaranteed to lose it. Heck, so far in this thread the general consensus is "played when hand is empty or when it will defeat your opponent". That means both cards are basically dead in your hand most of the time, with only small windows of opportunity where they can be played.

Ultimately I think that's the problem with Warlock. Hurting yourself is fine. Health is ironically the least valuable resource in the game, but cards are the most important. Everyone is always going on about card advantage and using cards in such a way that it costs your opponent more cards, whether we're talking about Flamestrike and Consecration killing multiple minions or huge taunts requiring many minions to break through...

So when you're looking at cards like Succubus, Doom Guard, Soulfire, Hellfire and Twisting Nether, they're all pretty powerful but they don't "trade" well under most circumstances. You really need to be picky about when you play them so you minimise the card loss on your part, which is actually kinda bad when you consider it because nobody else has to be as careful about what they play and when and Warlock cards aren't actually more powerful than any other class cards, they just generally can get played a little earlier.

[Math_Mage]

If Doomguard were so amazing, it would be in more than 20% of warlock decks on Hearthhead.
Between Murlock and Handlock, I wouldn't expect more than 30-40% even from a must-have in Aggrolock that didn't fit the other two. And no one was arguing Doomguard is a must-have.

[Loreweaver15]

Soulfire, though...far and away the best of the discard-as-cost cards available to Warlock. One of the best finishers in the whole game, I'd go as far as to say.

[Frog Dragon]

Succubus is bad, agreed. If you flipped the stats, it might be okay, but right now it isn't. I don't really like doomguard either because 3 cards is a really hefty price. However, I've learned to appreciate soulfire.

The warlock can turn mana and life into cards. Mana is clearly the more important resource here, and soulfire doesn't cost any of it. Yet it can have a large board impact and essentially flip a board in your favor. You do pay two cards for it, but you gain board position, and that's what lets you trade well.

Furthermore, a warlock with a good board position has more space to tap, because when you control the trades, you get better trades, so your opponent has to use more resources to deal with your cards than you have to use to deal with theirs. Now, soulfire was expensive card-wise, but it can pay off in the long run.

Another way to look at it is that the cost of a card for a warlock is 2 mana and 2 life. 2 mana and 2 life for 4 damage isn't bad, and when you consider that you can actually pay the "cost of a card" before or after the turn you actually use it, it becomes much easier to actually play with your other stuff.

Discarding a card doesn't always put you at a disadvantage.

[Dada]

The doomguard is easily contained with big taunters or hard removal. Soulfire is just a removal spell. If you can empty your hand before you drop them, then they're fantastic, as you then have completely negated their drawbacks. The problem with that plan is that if you stack them, you're likely to get both in the same hand, at which point they effectively block each other. I don't think they're bad cards, but they're definitely in the vein of 'win more' cards.

If Doomguard were so amazing, it would be in more than 20% of warlock decks on Hearthhead. Soulfire IS in most warlock decks, but I'd venture that's because it's removal, not because of any native merit of the discard mechanic. In effect, unless you can meet the conditions of a) the card wins the game for you or b) you play it from an empty hand, it compares unfavorably to a normal 'costs mana' card.

A 5/7 Charger is not "easily contained" by any cards of a similar cost. Stacking them in the same hand is unfortunate but no worse than just never drawing whichever one you ended up discarding in the first place. Lets compare Soulfire to similar cards: The best matches of the top of my head is Shadowbolt (3 mana, 4 damage to a minion) and Mortal Strike(4 mana, 4 damage, 6 if you're on low health). Neither of these are considered amazing cards or are heavily played, so I wouldn't say it compares unfavourably to normal "mana cost" cards.

When you judge a card by how often it appears, you have to consider that many different archetypes exist. Soulfire is great in almost any deck, which is reflected in its play rate, but Doomguard won't be worth it in all decks. Warlock control would rather drop cheap giants and buffed Twillight Drakes, while Murloc decks rarely have room since their core is fairly large. Ironically, the hyper-aggressive Warlock decks which just want "final turn" cards often end up cutting Doomguard for Leeroy, Mana Golem and Power Overwhelming. This leaves the aggressive board control Warlock decks such as Zoo which generally do run Doomguard with great results. Finally Hearthhead stats doesn't actually prove much since (afaik) there is no quality control on the decks submitted there. It might be that the 20% of the decks which contain Doomguard are the only actual good decks on the site (unlikely, given my previous explanation).

Edit:


Ultimately I think that's the problem with Warlock. Hurting yourself is fine. Health is ironically the least valuable resource in the game, but cards are the most important. Everyone is always going on about card advantage and using cards in such a way that it costs your opponent more cards, whether we're talking about Flamestrike and Consecration killing multiple minions or huge taunts requiring many minions to break through...


That is the whole point of Warlock aggro decks. They don't play by the same card advantage rules as normal decks. The Warlock hero power gives you free card advantage every turn where you are able to use it. And the main factor determining how often you can use the hero power is the tempo of the game. Thus, by playing cheap, aggressive creatures with tempo-efficient support cards, the Warlock aggro ensures that it can constantly use it hero power without falling behind, and without the life-payment becoming a huge problem. The main weakness of Warlock aggro decks is not running out of cards - it can just draw more. The Warlock aggro deck loses when it fails to keep the tempo in its favour, allowing its opponent to stabilize and put pressure on the Warlocks depleted life total.

[jindra34]

Warlock's hero power is not 'FREE' card advantage by any means. At best its loan board/hand advantage. But unlike the Paladin/Shaman's hero powers the Warlock hero power doesn't generate an extra card from the ether. Its from the deck which has a limited number. Which you have to be careful of. Aggressive Warlock deck can, potentially, afford to use it often because they are betting on the game being over before the debt bites them. But if they fall off beat they often have to do the same to keep above water. Discipline, and knowing your deck, are most important for the Warlock in regards to the hero power (where almost every other class can go, end of turn and have two mana left: Hero power).

[Loreweaver15]

Warlock's hero power is not 'FREE' card advantage by any means. At best its loan board/hand advantage. But unlike the Paladin/Shaman's hero powers the Warlock hero power doesn't generate an extra card from the ether. Its from the deck which has a limited number. Which you have to be careful of. Aggressive Warlock deck can, potentially, afford to use it often because they are betting on the game being over before the debt bites them. But if they fall off beat they often have to do the same to keep above water. Discipline, and knowing your deck, are most important for the Warlock in regards to the hero power (where almost every other class can go, end of turn and have two mana left: Hero power).

On the other hand, it's as true here as it is in Magic: The only point of life that matters is your last, and life is a resource, not a hoard.

[Dada]

Warlock's hero power is not 'FREE' card advantage by any means. At best its loan board/hand advantage. But unlike the Paladin/Shaman's hero powers the Warlock hero power doesn't generate an extra card from the ether. Its from the deck which has a limited number. Which you have to be careful of. Aggressive Warlock deck can, potentially, afford to use it often because they are betting on the game being over before the debt bites them. But if they fall off beat they often have to do the same to keep above water. Discipline, and knowing your deck, are most important for the Warlock in regards to the hero power (where almost every other class can go, end of turn and have two mana left: Hero power).

Assuming we are going by the general card advantage definition from MtG, the Warlock's hero power is definitely card advantage, whereas Paladin and Shaman would only become card advantage the moment your opponent traded cards for them (since they would generate tokens, not cards). The important point is, however, that card advantage refers to "how many cards do you have access to". You don't have direct access to the cards in your deck, you only have access to the cards in your hand and the cards on the board.

Also, I keep seeing the "removing cards from the deck" being brought up (see also: Tracking) and it really isn't a relevant drawback in most cases. It is very very rare that either player actually runs out of cards, and just like it doesn't matter whether you win at 1 or 30 life, it also doesn't matter whether you win with 0 or 30 cards left in your deck. In fact, drawing a card is a much more powerful effect than creating a 1/1 token or dealing 1 damage or whatever, hence the additional cost of 2 life - which still doesn't balance it out completely. The Warlock hero power is generally considered if not the best hero power, then at least one of the best.

[Loreweaver15]

Is it just me, or does nobody know how to play Starving Buzzard properly? They keep just dropping it and not using it. A Starving Buzzard ain't gonna last until your next turn, people.

[AgentPaper]

On the other hand, it's as true here as it is in Magic: The only point of life that matters is your last, and life is a resource, not a hoard.

Not this again. As has been discussed before, every point of life matters. That doesn't mean you shouldn't use your life as a resource, but throwing it away for little or no gain is worse than not using it at all.

[Blisstake]

Is it just me, or does nobody know how to play Starving Buzzard properly? They keep just dropping it and not using it. A Starving Buzzard ain't gonna last until your next turn, people.

I had a game like this recently. I was a mage, which made it even worse...

I'm starting to think the casual matchmaking is a bit off. When I started, I was regularly going against decks that had legendaries. I kept a positive win record, but lately I've been going against players that spend their first turn using smite or arcane missiles on me :smallconfused:

[Togath]

Finally starting to build up a bit of arcane dust(150 currently).:smallsmile:
Should I use it to get a few more commons(earthen ring farseer, harvest golem, and leper gnome come to mind), or save it up for rares and epics(more murlocs, for instance, or knife juggler or Nat Pagle to help boost card draw or aggro)?

[Zevox]

To be fair, I haven't tested Infiltrator against Murlocs or Zoo, so the following is basically theorycrafting.

Against Murlocs, I'd give the edge to the Squire, but it's fairly close. Squire is better at killing 1-toughness Murlocs, but Infiltrator can take out a Tidecaller with one hit.

Against Zoo, Squire is okay. Shieldbearer and Voidwalker shuts him down hard, but pinging the Shield off a Scarlet Crusader or cleaning up after Harvest Golems can be crucical. Infiltrator is likewise shut down by Shieldbearer and Voidwalker, but has the advantage of trading with Knife Juggler and Flame Imp. On the other hand, you have to trade it in as soon as Knife Juggler hits the table or you risk losing him to a random knife. I'd give a slight edge to Infiltrator but probably wouldn't run either with the goal of improving the Zoo matchup.
I think that Worgen's side-advantage that I pointed out earlier is something to consider - when it comes down, the opponent is given pause about playing 3/2s, and may elect to make plays they otherwise wouldn't in order to avoid losing, say, a Knife Juggler to the Worgen. I had just such a match the other day, where my opponent was an aggrolock, but elected to use his hero power on turn 2 and 3, playing only a Voidwalker on turn 3 (which I was able to handle another way). It briefly tricked me into thinking he was a controlock going for a Twilight Drake, until he dropped Knife Juggler and two 1s on turn 4. But he lost that gamble, hitting my other minion (I forget what it was) and my face, and I was able to kill the Juggler with the Worgen.


"Kill Ragnaros for 1 mana" is often worth the card disadvantage. Not so much that it sees common play, mind, but I don't think any impactful card is worse than zero-impact cards like Wisp.
Yeah, especially with Tinkmaster's nerf, I wonder whether one Naturalize might not be worth running in Druid control, specifically to handle big legendaries. Especially Ysera, whose health is way too high for anything but hard removal to handle well, but is immune to Big Game Hunter.


Is it just me, or does nobody know how to play Starving Buzzard properly? They keep just dropping it and not using it. A Starving Buzzard ain't gonna last until your next turn, people.
I wish the Hunters I fought were that dumb...


Finally starting to build up a bit of arcane dust(150 currently).:smallsmile:
Should I use it to get a few more commons(earthen ring farseer, harvest golem, and leper gnome come to mind), or save it up for rares and epics(more murlocs, for instance, or knife juggler or Nat Pagle to help boost card draw or aggro)?
That depends on what you want to play, and what you're getting in your packs. If you prefer more aggressive decks, Leper Gnome or Knife Juggler would be good, or even ( :smallsigh: ) Murlocs. If you're more interested in control, things like Earthen Ring Farseer, Faerie Dragon, or Sunfury Protector would be great. Defender of Argus and Harvest Golem would be good ones in general, usable in most deck styles. Azure Drake was the first one I went for, and he's almost always good for control decks. If you have a specific class or two in mind that you most want to play though, picking up their class-specific cards may be better than neutrals - a Shaman will definitely prefer to grab Lightning Bolt, Lightning Storm, Unbound Elemental, and other such class cards before most neutrals, for example.

I honestly wouldn't recommend trying to save for a legendary like Nat Pagle yet though, since the dust cost is astonomical, and you can get a lot of good, staple cards you likely don't have for much less. Save them for when you get some cards worth very high amounts of dust, like gold epics or legendaries you don't want.

Re: Warlock cards - the thing about Soulfire and, to a lesser extent, Doomguard is that the deck they're played in does not really card about card advantage. An aggrolock expects his hand to empty after the first few turns anyway, because most of his cards cost 1-2 mana, with only a handful of 3-5s at most. His hero power helps make up for that once turn 4 or so hits, and the mana spent doesn't bother him as much as other decks because of how cheap most of his cards are. What he is concerned about is how much damage he can dish out in how short a period of time, and Soulfire and (again, to a lesser extent) Doomguard are great for that. 4 damage for no mana is nuts, and 5 damage on charge with enough health to not die to a stiff breeze the way most charge minions do is pretty darn good for that.

Now, if you're trying to make a mid-range or control Warlock, absolutely avoid them. There you will be concerned about card advantage over dishing out damage as fast as possible. But I would definitely take issue with the assertion that Hellfire or Twisting Nether aren't good for a controlock. I run both in my own Warlock deck (only one Twisting Nether), and find them quite valuable. You do have to carefully consider whether to use them if you have minions on the board (though if they have enough health, like Twilight Drakes or Giants tend to, that's less of a worry for Hellfire), but that does not make them bad.

Twisting Nether in particular I find goes well with a couple of things controlock likes to run: Molten Giant and Jaraxxus. The former can be thrown out on the same turn as a Twisting Nether if your health is low enough, putting you immediately in a dominant position (and you can potentially toss out a Sunfury Protector with them, as well at 10 or less health), and Twisting Nether can be used to cover the latter. By which I mean this: most of the time, going into Jaraxxus takes up your whole turn, doing little to nothing to help your board position (you could kill something weak with his weapon, but since you only get 15 health you don't really want to do that if you don't have to). Your opponent will naturally typically take advantage of this opportunity to play numerous minions, with the intent of finishing you off before Jaraxxus' potent hero power can become an issue. At which point you can respond with Twisting Nether + hero power, wiping out their board and giving you a 6/6. That's pretty nasty.

I don't think running two Twisting Nether would ever be a good idea - they're too expensive, and a controlock probably wants several other such expensive cards (besides the Giants, whose cost goes down), so that could make the deck too top-heavy. But I definitely find running one quite valuable in matches against mid-range and control decks.

[The Glyphstone]

Nat Pagle is a Legendary. He also just got nerfed.

[Kish]

I'm starting to think the casual matchmaking is a bit off. When I started, I was regularly going against decks that had legendaries. I kept a positive win record, but lately I've been going against players that spend their first turn using smite or arcane missiles on me :smallconfused:
With the introduction of the Hearthsteed, a lot of "new players" are actually WoW players who just want three wins with as little investment in Hearthstone as possible. Many of them are on the Hearthstone forum, complainin' about having to learn the rules at all or screaming that they can't get past Illidan, this is completely unfair.

Finally starting to build up a bit of arcane dust(150 currently).:smallsmile:
Should I use it to get a few more commons(earthen ring farseer, harvest golem, and leper gnome come to mind), or save it up for rares and epics(more murlocs, for instance, or knife juggler or Nat Pagle to help boost card draw or aggro)?
My advice is to plan out what your primary deck will be eventually, a.k.a., would be if you suddenly had infinite dust. Then craft toward it, play with a deck based on that deck with necessary substitutions (e.g., a just-starting Hunter deck might have a Core Hound in a slot that will one day hold a Savannah Highmane, or one further-away day hold Ragnaros or King Krush) and be prepared to change your plan based on what you learn.

[Zevox]

With the introduction of the Hearthsteed, a lot of "new players" are actually WoW players who just want three wins with as little investment in Hearthstone as possible. Many of them are on the Hearthstone forum, complainin' about having to learn the rules at all or screaming that they can't get past Illidan, this is completely unfair.
Wow. You know, if you're so bad at the game that you can't get past the tutorial, you might just want to accept that you're not going to get the promo mount.

[Neon Knight]

I didn't even know it was possible to lose any of the Tutorial fights; I thought they were effectively rigged so that so long as you played cards you would win.

[AgentPaper]

My advice is to plan out what your primary deck will be eventually, a.k.a., would be if you suddenly had infinite dust. Then craft toward it, play with a deck based on that deck with necessary substitutions (e.g., a just-starting Hunter deck might have a Core Hound in a slot that will one day hold a Savannah Highmane, or one further-away day hold Ragnaros or King Krush) and be prepared to change your plan based on what you learn.

This sounds like a really bad idea, actually. You're much better off looking at just what cards you have, and trying to turn that into an actually good deck, instead of trying to frame it on some future maybe deck that you think is good but probably isn't. Once you have a good deck, and understand how it works, then you can look at new cards and actually recognize which ones would improve your deck.

[Studoku]

Wow. You know, if you're so bad at the game that you can't get past the tutorial, you might just want to accept that you're not going to get the promo mount.
I saw a thread from one of them about not being able to beat Nessingwary. Actually prompted me to replay the tutorial to see just how badly you have to play to do that.

Turns out the answer is very. It's possible without any outrageously bad plays, i.e. ending your turn without playing anything, but it's difficult. Also impossible to do twice- once you learn not to waste the polymorph on turn 4 it's trivial.


I didn't even know it was possible to lose any of the Tutorial fights; I thought they were effectively rigged so that so long as you played cards you would win.
Hogger and Millhouse won't let you deviate from the script enough to lose- even ending your turn without attacking isn't allowed. It's a shame- I wanted to see millhouse play his Pyroblast.

You can lose against the others if you play very badly or are deliberately trying to lose.

[Loreweaver15]

With the introduction of the Hearthsteed, a lot of "new players" are actually WoW players who just want three wins with as little investment in Hearthstone as possible. Many of them are on the Hearthstone forum, complainin' about having to learn the rules at all or screaming that they can't get past Illidan, this is completely unfair.

Ohhhhh my god, I have to go see this.

[tyckspoon]

...I have got to stop following threads for games I don't play. It just winds up with me playing them.

Got my Mage up to level 15 already, and had a reasonably nice 6-win run with a Mage deck in the Arena. Although that should have ended sooner, I skated by a Druid who mis-played pretty badly.. I had 3 relatively weak minions out, 2 of which were carrying Spell Power because of that one card that gives spellpower to the minions next to him. Druid had an Ironbark Protector out. Instead of using it to clean up my minions, he uses it to beat my face for 2 turns in a row while he puts out a couple other minions. I had a Flamestrike and Cold of Cone in hand..

Spell Power'd Flamestrike clears the board after using hero power a couple of times to bring the Ironbark low enough to kill with it, I get a free turn to go for the face. He drops Cenarius.. Powered Cone of Cold wipes the Treant summons and the Fireball I drew that turn finishes off Cenarius. I've got three minions on the board, he's got nothing and no cards in hand.. game is foregone conclusion from there.

[Fleeing Coward]

So. I realised that I've broken 1k wins on both play mode and arena after a few casual matches to complete the daily.
Think I might be playing this game abit too much :smalltongue: