Paladin Mounts- Their CR for use

[Abbul]

What I mean by that is that the formula listed in the DMG states the mount's CR must be 3 or less than the Paladin, so at level 6 the Paladin can select a mount with a CR of 3.

This makes me wonder: the Large Monstrous Spider is a CR of 2, yet is listed for Pal level 6. I can only assume it is because it has a climb speed (inferior to fly speed) and maybe the Web ability or poison.

Is this a matter of text and table conflict, or is the Spider an especially strong mount for its CR?

If I advanced the Spider to get one extra CR, or apply the Warbeast template to it for an extra CR, would it still remain viable at Paladin 6? By text I would say yes, by table I would say probably not.

I am the DM in this particular case. The player said she can wait until 7 for it if needed, but I don't see any reason to make her wait if the rules state it *can be* up to 3 less.

[NoACWarrior]

Table vs Text, Text should almost always win. Be careful when advancing monsters which will serve as familiars or mounts (certain rules need to be applied when dealing with non-npc allies).

[Flickerdart]

The CR-3 thing is a general guideline. I'm guessing that whoever wrote that table thought that the spider's various abilities made it more valuable than warhorse even though they are the same CR.

[Snails]

Climb speed, ranged attack (web/net), vermin immunity to mind affecting effects, tremor sense.

This is a good package that holds its own with the giant bat and unicorn. FWIW rating this as CR 3 for paladin mount purposes seems fair.

[Abbul]

Those benefits do make sense. Would it lose the vermin traits upon becoming a Magical Beast? I assumed and told the player it will gain an Intelligence score upon that occurrence.

We're also trying to determine whether or not it should have the Warbeast template. Would it be better to get it a level earlier without it, or wait until level 7 to get a better version of it? We know it won't be a solid combatant for long, if at all, but the extra speed could help.

She made it the hunter version so it already has a speed of 40 instead of 30. Warbeast would bring it up to 50.

Her character is a Dark Elf that left her society due to finding the things they did disgusting, and went off on her own to research deities to see if this was normal for her society. She discovered Lolth was into this stuff, and then Heironeous sort of chose her to step into the path of the Paladin, his representative among the Dark Elves. She accepted, and promptly left the Underdark with her trained faithful Spider mount.

Now once reaching the appropriate level it will ascend, despite its hideousness, and gain the Celestial template (ACF from planar handbook) and become her mount. I've ruled that if both she and it take the feat Leap Attack (I said it could take feats when it becomes her Paladin mount) she'll be able to have the spider do the charging and leaping with her swinging her scythe overhead and getting the benefit.

I think it's a pretty awesome visual.

[Urpriest]

Those benefits do make sense. Would it lose the vermin traits upon becoming a Magical Beast? I assumed and told the player it will gain an Intelligence score upon that occurrence.

We're also trying to determine whether or not it should have the Warbeast template. Would it be better to get it a level earlier without it, or wait until level 7 to get a better version of it? We know it won't be a solid combatant for long, if at all, but the extra speed could help.

She made it the hunter version so it already has a speed of 40 instead of 30. Warbeast would bring it up to 50.

Her character is a Dark Elf that left her society due to finding the things they did disgusting, and went off on her own to research deities to see if this was normal for her society. She discovered Lolth was into this stuff, and then Heironeous sort of chose her to step into the path of the Paladin, his representative among the Dark Elves. She accepted, and promptly left the Underdark with her trained faithful Spider mount.

Now once reaching the appropriate level it will ascend, despite its hideousness, and gain the Celestial template (ACF from planar handbook) and become her mount. I've ruled that if both she and it take the feat Leap Attack (I said it could take feats when it becomes her Paladin mount) she'll be able to have the spider do the charging and leaping with her swinging her scythe overhead and getting the benefit.

I think it's a pretty awesome visual.

It definitely gains an Intelligence and feats when it becomes a Magical Beast. Whether it loses the Vermin traits is a bit debatable, but in general I'd say that anything explicitly under Vermin traits gets lost and replaced with the equivalent Magical Beast traits.

As for it being a Warbeast, I agree with the others that you don't need to fill the CR gap. I'll additionally point out that letting in templated creatures without special feats/class features tends to open things up for abuse.