Suggestion on Psionics class

[Invader]

I'm really in the mood to give Psionics a go after all these years of never trying them out but I'm feeling kinda underwhelmed with the choices. Psion doesn't feel different enough from a wizard for me, Soulknife (probably into soul bow) seems like a fun concept but is pretty universally shunned for being bad, wilder at a glance didn't seem that interesting and Psychic Warrior seems to get some love but also didn't really seem interesting outside of just self buffing and smashing stuff.

Some of this might be solved with their powers which honestly I'm not that familiar and the same could be said about prestige classes. I'm starting at 5th level probably not going beyond 10 and no ToB. With that in mind are there any suggestions for a fulfilling psionic experience?

[The-Mage-King]

Perhaps Psychic Rogue (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20040723b) would be an option? Skilled and so forth.


Another option would be Tashalatora Wilder, making what amounts to a more effective Monk.

[Flickerdart]

There aren't that many decent psionic classes so it's pretty easy to go through all of them that you haven't looked at yet:

Psion: Your vanilla manifester. Learns a pretty good amount of powers; in terms of versatility he sits between the sorcerer and wizard, because even low-level powers can be augmented to produce effects in line with high-level spells (if your ML is high enough and you're willing to pay the power point cost). They choose a discipline that gives them additional access to ~10 unique powers. Psions are a great all-rounder choice if you want an experience most similar to that of an arcane spellcaster.

Psychic Rogue/Lurk: I'm lumping these together because they are reasonably similar. They don't get as many power points or powers as a psion, and have to rely more on their skill points and class features. Don't play one of these because you want to play a psionic character, play them because you want a new take on being a rogue.

Ardent: The cleric to the psion's wizard, an ardent learns half as many powers, picking them out of what are essentially psionic domains (complete with domain powers). An ardent starts out with 2 and then gains an extra one every 5 levels. They have a weird power learning mechanic - an ardent can learn any power they can manifest, rather than following a "maximum level of power known" that all the other psionic classes deal with. Because of this, they are very multiclass-friendly (which is good because psionic PrCs tend to lose manifester levels a lot). As long as you pick up Practiced Manifester, you can lose a whole bunch of levels and not worry about stunting your highest level of powers known. Ardents have better HP and BAB than other full manifesters, so they're not bad if you want to crack some skulls.

Divine Mind: The psionic version of a paladin. Included here for completeness only - they are awful and you shouldn't play one.

Erudite: This is a bit of a touchy class to talk about because there is some nasty stuff revolving around its special mechanics for powers. In addition to learning powers when they level up, Erudites can also learn powers out of a willing character's mind, like a wizard scribing a scroll (only the cost is XP instead of GP). In exchange for this, because psionic characters can cast any power they know, erudites have a Unique Powers per Day number, to make sure they aren't too versatile. As written, this number is too permissive (it refers to powers per level per day) but if you just take it as powers per day (across all levels) then it works fine.

The second problem with the erudite is an alternate class feature - Spell to Power. It allows erudites to convert spells from spellcasters into psionic powers they can use. Don't play with this ACF, but if you do, don't allow the interpretations that a) an erudite can consider both Psicrystal Affinity and Bonus Feat as bonus feats that it can exchange for ACFs that require the 1st level bonus feat, and b) that "spells" are a discipline eligible for Favored Discipline.

As long as you keep these two things in mind, the erudite is a perfectly fine class that approximates a wizard a lot better than the psion does, and may be more comfortable for someone familiar with them to play.

[Nihilarian]

The Psychic Warrior can make a better Soulknife than the Soulknife with the Soulbound Weapon ACF (https://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/psm/20070214a).

Besides the use of Psionics, what kind of character do you want to play? Tank, Sneaky, Mage? Other?

[Tohsaka Rin]

Go check out the dreamscarred press srd. They have a fix for the Soulknife, and a metric butt-ton of stuff besides that.

Psions make for great gishes, I've found, and if you use the psionic variant of the Abjurant Champion, you're going to get a ton of mileage out of your defensive buffs.

Lastly, psionic feats make everything better. No matter what your build is, it can always stand to take a psionic feat or two.

Up the Walls well before you have access to proper flight will take you to rooftops.

Psionic Strike/Shot/Fist are always good for a boost to damage, and Shot plus a 1 pp power gets you extra damage dice at the low, low cost of expending your psionic focus.

Fell Shot, and Deep Impact let you make a single attack as a touch attack. There's nothing sweeter than going all-out power attack, and still having a very good chance of hitting. You can do it all day, too, unlike True Strike.

The trick with Psionics isn't looking for what's good, it's looking for what makes everything else better.

[Immabozo]

There are a lot of psionic powers that simply cannot be duplicated in the arcane world. Also the mechanics are much different. You shouldn't have TOO much of a problem with deja vu wile playing a psion

[Rubik]

There are a lot of psionic powers that simply cannot be duplicated in the arcane world. Also the mechanics are much different. You shouldn't have TOO much of a problem with deja vu wile playing a psion

[Psyren]

There are a lot of psionic powers that simply cannot be duplicated in the arcane world. Also the mechanics are much different. You shouldn't have TOO much of a problem with deja vu wile playing a psion

[Immabozo]

There are a lot of psionic powers that simply cannot be duplicated in the arcane world. Also the mechanics are much different. You shouldn't have TOO much of a problem with deja vu wile playing a psion


There are a lot of psionic powers that simply cannot be duplicated in the arcane world. Also the mechanics are much different. You shouldn't have TOO much of a problem with deja vu wile playing a psion

You're killing me smalls.

But thank you for reinforcing my point

[Waker]

You guys. When I first read those identical posts I was thinking it was a double/triple post, but then I saw the names were different. You shouldn't be trying to confuse me when I first wake up.

Anyways to the OP, did you have any goals or preferred play styles? Saying that you want to be a psionic character is a rather open-ended request since as you yourself noted, there are a number of classes before getting into specific builds. Knowing anything about the rest of the party make-up might help too if you wanted to void redundancy or missing party roles.

[Invader]

You guys. When I first read those identical posts I was thinking it was a double/triple post, but then I saw the names were different. You shouldn't be trying to confuse me when I first wake up.

Anyways to the OP, did you have any goals or preferred play styles the Saying that you want to be a psionic character is a rather open-ended request since as you yourself noted, there are a number of classes before getting into specific builds. Knowing anything about the rest of the party make-up might help too if you wanted to void redundancy or missing party roles.

I usually play a caster but I'd be open to play a more martial character of they still offered some Ok utility. I was originally looking at different ranged builds and soul bow caught my interest but as I mention it seems like it's frowned upon. Psion might be my best bet, looking at the suggestions it might be far enough from a traditional caster to keep my interest.

[Waker]

I usually play a caster but I'd be open to play a more martial character of they still offered some Ok utility. I was originally looking at different ranged builds and soul bow caught my interest but as I mention it seems like it's frowned upon. Psion might be my best bet, looking at the suggestions it might be far enough from a traditional caster to keep my interest.

Fair enough. Despite being int-focused, the Psion is probably better compared to a Sorcerer who can specialize in a magic school. If you go that route, determining what discipline you want to try out will help.

I can't comment on Soulblade(bow) since I've never really spent much time reading up on them, though apparently they underwent a significant revision in PF. You might consider seeing if the DM will allow a backport.

[Rejusu]

Soulbow is playable with the right build, it makes the soulknife not terrible. But it's just not particularly interesting either. You can make a good scout (you should have a good wisdom score and you have spot and listen as class skills) and you can deal good damage with psionic shot (if you're prepared to stand still while you do so) but that's about it. You can be fairly SAD though with wisdom to damage and attack with Zen archery. You can even dip a level of Monk to get it to AC too. Plus since soulbow archery only requires one hand you can use a shield or potentially TWF.

The biggest problem though is you're starting at level 5. Soulbow is level 6. So you'd probably have a rather sucky level where you're not terribly effective to get through.

But yeah if you're expecting something totally different from spellcasting you won't really find it in psionics. The differences are largely subtle ones.

[Particle_Man]

Psion (shaper) is pretty fun -- you are effectively a 3-D printer with astral goo as your medium.

[HaikenEdge]

I'd suggest Ardent; the Mantle powers are pretty nifty, and it's fairly easy to learn and use, since the mantles are pretty themed, so there's less need to try to pick the best powers for every level out of a huge list.

[Dusk Eclipse]

I usually play a caster but I'd be open to play a more martial character of they still offered some Ok utility. I was originally looking at different ranged builds and soul bow caught my interest but as I mention it seems like it's frowned upon. Psion might be my best bet, looking at the suggestions it might be far enough from a traditional caster to keep my interest.

A Psion based gish, gives loads of utility; I like ranger 2/Psion 3/Ghostbreaker* 1 /Slayer 10/ Ghostbreaker +4.

17/20 ML 18 BAB, reasonable skills and decent HD.

*Ghostbreaker is from a 3rd party book, Hyperconcious which was written by Bruce Cordell (one of the lead designer on the XPH) and it is generally considered one of the best books for Psionics. In case you don't have access to it you can switch it for other classes like Anarchic Initiate (CPsi) or Diamond Mind (LoM), but it means either loosing BAB (the former) or loosing ML (the later)

[Rubik]

A Psion based gish, gives loads of utility; I like ranger 2/Psion 3/Ghostbreaker* 1 /Slayer 10/ Ghostbreaker +4.

17/20 ML 18 BAB, reasonable skills and decent HD.

*Ghostbreaker is from a 3rd party book, Hyperconcious which was written by Bruce Cordell (one of the lead designer on the XPH) and it is generally considered one of the best books for Psionics. In case you don't have access to it you can switch it for other classes like Anarchic Initiate (CPsi) or Diamond Mind (LoM), but it means either loosing BAB (the former) or loosing ML (the later)I hate the fact that reasonable entry into illithid slayer practically requires a dip into ranger. It's a waste of levels. All it gives you is some BAB (which isn't exactly useful to a manifester) and Track.

[Immabozo]

Thrallherd could be a fun PrC, and mixed with Mindconcert, you will be seriously kicking some.... rear end

[Psyren]

I don't see anything wrong with it. Feat aside, a dip into Ranger is way more useful (especially for an Int-based build) than a dip into fighter.

[Rubik]

I don't see anything wrong with it. Feat aside, a dip into Ranger is way more useful (especially for an Int-based build) than a dip into fighter.Ranger is a pretty useless class unless you're hitting up a MotAO wild shape ranger, and even then, there are much nicer classes out there.

[Nihilarian]

I hate the fact that reasonable entry into illithid slayer practically requires a dip into ranger. It's a waste of levels. All it gives you is some BAB (which isn't exactly useful to a manifester) and Track.It doesn't require a dip into ranger unless you want to take it as early as possible (Ardent, Psychic Warrior or Wilder 4 and 1 level of ranger). In this case, you're trading a bit of casting ability for early entry. Ardent can qualify without multiclassing by level 6 (so can wilder and psychic warrior, but they don't get dungeoneering as a class skill), psion by level 8.

BAB may not be useful for most manifesters but the Slayer is a Gish PrC, and most gishes do care about BAB. So I'm not sure what exactly your problem with it is.

[Bloodgruve]

I've run both Ardent and Thrallherd and had a blast with them.

Ardent makes a great gish. Build yourself into a character that's half Wolverine, half Nightcrawler, half Cyclops. Beast Claws + Dimension Hop + Energy Ray. May not be Tier 1 but swift augmentable teleport is great.

Thrallherd is just fun cuz you get a Thrall. Basically nets you 2 characters.

Blood~

[Psyren]

Ranger is a pretty useless class unless you're hitting up a MotAO wild shape ranger, and even then, there are much nicer classes out there.

Disagree - starting a Slayer/Psion build off with ranger not only gives you +1 BAB and martial weapon proficiency, it also gives you 6+Int x4 skill points and plenty of good to spend them on - Concentration, Spot, Listen, Hide, Move Silently, two creature-identifying Knowledges, and Jump/Climb/Swim. Throw in ACFs like Arcane Hunter, Voice of the City and Trap Expert, and you get a lot of benefit out of that one level.